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fordfan25
03-01-2006, 09:19 PM
if it wernt so funny it would be scary...... or is that the other way around. i just bought the same gun "glock32" in a 357sig so wish me luck i do not do any thing that stupid http://media.putfile.com/03084899

fordfan25
03-01-2006, 09:19 PM
if it wernt so funny it would be scary...... or is that the other way around. i just bought the same gun "glock32" in a 357sig so wish me luck i do not do any thing that stupid http://media.putfile.com/03084899

PBNA-Boosher
03-01-2006, 09:29 PM
Actually, he handles it rather well for having shot himself. His point is well proven. "I'm a professional and I made a mistake. You could be blown away."

fordfan25
03-01-2006, 09:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Actually, he handles it rather well for having shot himself. His point is well proven. "I'm a professional and I made a mistake. You could be blown away." </div></BLOCKQUOTE> he didnt actually shoot him self. if he had blood would be every wear. he eather grazed his leg or more than likely got a good powder burn. a 40cal would have caused alot of bleeding and thay would have been trying to stop it ect. and yea foul ups happen. at 13 i shoot my step dads very pricey cider dresser with a win 30-30 while unloading it. ill tell you what that dresser treated me with more respect after that LOL. local SD invetagator is a former army ranger sniper and not long ago shot himself in the foot while cleaning his weapon also a glock, it can happen to anyone if thay dont keep a clear head or get in a hurry. plus a glocknot haveing a external safty does not help.

Enforcer572005
03-01-2006, 10:07 PM
best way to keep such from happening wiht a Glock is not to touch the trigger OR just eject the rd in the chamber. Ive owned 4 of those things in 9mm and 10mm (best weapon i ever had). it wont shoot if the trigger isnt pulled directly wiht that litte lever being depressed-it actually is an external safety, just not very external http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. I think he got into a hurry. I alwyas make sure that its in a holster of some sort when carried though.

Ive had a couple of ADs myself, but was pretty fortunate. I had a Browning P35 do that while i was pointing it dnrange and had thought the mag release had gotten pressed. Nobody realized it was Accidental, so i just made like nothing happened.

Another was when i was about 22 and I had my trusty Ruger M-77 300 win magnum (loaded wiht 110 gr softpoint handloads) with me checking the perimeter of my grandparents land for a pack of wild dogs-with my weapon on my hip for a moment ala sgt Saunders. I saw one at around 200 meters, and i took off the safety while squeezing the trigger (for some ungodly reason). KABOOM it said as it hit me in the hip wiht a sledgehammer and knocked me down. Thank god it was a lt weight bullet....it could have really hurt me if it had been a 165gr or such.

I just kinda laid there in the mud as the 2 wild dogs took flight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif. My bullet is in orbit now im sure....probably shows up on NORAD radar. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I also saw it happen to a guy at a gunshow in Atlanta about 20 yrs ago. A .380 that5 shouldnt have been loaded went off and the rd bounced all over the place.

A female cop i knew when i worked at FCPD as a dispatcher(and was teaching her to shoot-she was a cute blonde) was looking at anohter guys M19 SW .357 when she mysteriously just pulled it throught double action (!?!?!?) and shot a hole throughtthe trunk lid of his dept's patrol car (a 77 trans-am believe it or not; Catoosa Co S.O.). It can happen to anyone.

willyvic
03-01-2006, 10:12 PM
A glock does not have an external safety is correct.

That is why it is instructed that to safe a glock you:

1. remove mag
2. rack, rack, rack, lock back slide
3. visually and physically check
4. release slide, pull trigger

The weapon is now safe.

WV

Max.Power
03-02-2006, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Actually, he handles it rather well for having shot himself. His point is well proven. "I'm a professional and I made a mistake. You could be blown away." </div></BLOCKQUOTE> he didnt actually shoot him self. if he had blood would be every wear. he eather grazed his leg or more than likely got a good powder burn. a 40cal would have caused alot of bleeding and thay would have been trying to stop it ect. and yea foul ups happen. at 13 i shoot my step dads very pricey cider dresser with a win 30-30 while unloading it. ill tell you what that dresser treated me with more respect after that LOL. local SD invetagator is a former army ranger sniper and not long ago shot himself in the foot while cleaning his weapon also a glock, it can happen to anyone if thay dont keep a clear head or get in a hurry. plus a glocknot haveing a external safty does not help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The body's reaction to such trauma is to close off the cappilaries to the torn tissue. There would be blood everywhere if he hit a major blood vessel. If he hit no such blood vessel, the would not be much bleeding. People aren't just bags full of blood, you know.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-02-2006, 05:01 AM
Actually there is no excuse for him to do that with a full mag. I also doubt he shot himself and continued there, without anybody noticing blood or something.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-02-2006, 05:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The body's reaction to such trauma is to close off the cappilaries to the torn tissue. There would be blood everywhere if he hit a major blood vessel. If he hit no such blood vessel, the would not be much bleeding. People aren't just bags full of blood, you know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not true. It depends on where you hit a body and what the person does. If he shot himself in the foot the overall pressure of the blood (ask raaaid about gravity and fluids) would cause a bleeding wound, no matter what.
Infact blunt-trauma ARE ruptured blood-vessels and the bluish color is from the blood no longer being provided with oxygene.

On the other hand, you also got to say, that the neural system is equally if not even more affected. If he had a trauma from a shot-wound, he wouldn't be able to stand on that leg. The pain would also cause a shock. He doesn't show any sign of that. Okay, he babbles street-style, but he does that before the pistol goes off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rnzoli
03-02-2006, 05:10 AM
Are you sure this wasn't part of the demonstration?

I started to become suspicious when the big gun was supposed to be shown and all studends were about to flee the room before this guy gets it into his hands.

It would make it one of the best 'take care!' demonstrations. Another one I saw for forklifts, it was like a bloody thriller comedy ever. However, this was the only guarantee that low-IQ people will actually watch it. For airplanes, there is a demo video clip about what will happen, if a baggage truck is hit by engine thrust from a large airliner....

Sturm_Williger
03-02-2006, 05:11 AM
Most important thing my dad ever taught me when he was teaching me about guns is that "There Is No Such Thing As An Unloaded Gun !"

Better safe than sorry. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Feathered_IV
03-02-2006, 05:43 AM
Is it normal to go around schools doing that, or is it a correctional place or something?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

rnzoli
03-02-2006, 12:20 PM
Well, I think it is normal in our high-schools. Nurses talk about sexuality, risks of pregnancy, STD. Policemen talk about drugs, crime, self-defence, guns.

Compare this with the fact, that a few decades ago, at the end of the cold war, military people were teaching us what to do in case of seeing the explosion of a nuclear bomb nearby. I still remember that we have to lie down, face down, legs towards the mushroom.

I think it is a change for better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Unknown-Pilot
03-02-2006, 01:32 PM
That's a Glock for ya.

Why anyone would want plastic ****, much less a concealed hammer, is a mystery.

A 1911 is still the mest semi-auto around, but if .357 SIG is absolutely desired, then why not just get a SIG? DA sucks, too much play in the trigger, but you can't do much better than a SIG. H&K would be a good second choice.

georgeo76
03-02-2006, 03:01 PM
Guns are fun MmmK.

Kocur_
03-02-2006, 03:14 PM
Excuse me, but where exactly this is funny? Guy supposed to be a professional AND actually talking about gun safety in front of class of teenagers chamberes his Glock there (SIC!) and has his finger NOT out of trigger guard (SIC!!!)! Guy is an irresponsible moron! Was it so obvious to him, that bullet didnt LEAVE the room and perhaps MEET someone outside? MORON!Wonder if still in service after that one.

ploughman
03-02-2006, 03:24 PM
Didn't this guy clear and show and empty weapon to another person and then go through a charade in which the guy he showed an empty weapon to remained cross armed and disinterested against a wall after his mate'd shot himself in an extremity? Look's like theatre to me.

On the other hand, for all those who whine that he mishandled his weapon. One day you will crash your car seriously, probably endangering another's life, statistically you will probably do it at least once, and I'm sure you might be able to recall a moment when you've realise how close you've come to really hurting someone that was not recorded and therefore didn't enter the statistics. How many years should you get for that, for being in control or out of control of a piece of technology that's capable of killing someone?

****EDIT**** I really hate cars, but I really love guns.

Extreme_One
03-02-2006, 04:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
...Look's like theatre to me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definatley 100%

And a fairly effective method of getting his message across. Scared the **** out of most of the kids in that room.

Treetop64
03-02-2006, 05:46 PM
BANG!

"Hey! Hey! Umm... Hey, listen everybody!

"Awright, hey! Okay, hey, listen! Awright! Uhhh, okay, listen...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Effective demonstration, indeed! Kinda reminds me of "Scared Straight". Remember that one?

slo_1_2_3
03-02-2006, 05:53 PM
yea you didnt see blood but you also didnt see the pee running down his leg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

fordfan25
03-02-2006, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
That's a Glock for ya.

Why anyone would want plastic ****, much less a concealed hammer, is a mystery.

A 1911 is still the mest semi-auto around, but if .357 SIG is absolutely desired, then why not just get a SIG? DA sucks, too much play in the trigger, but you can't do much better than a SIG. H&K would be a good second choice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

because thay want a tough gun that wont F up or rust. people bi*** about it being "plastic" but the FACT is these guns have been around sence the early 80's and are world renowned for being tough. pluse its more cost effective. the 1911 is the biggst POS i have ever seen. if i want to carry 6 to 8 rounds ill get a revolver wich is FAR FAR less likely to ever jam plus comes in much more powerfull rounds http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifuntill then ill still be shooting while the 1911 guys are reloading lol. the springfeild XD45 carries 12+1 i think it is of 45 while still maintaing a comfy fiting handle. the glock 21 how ever is a handfull.

fordfan25
03-02-2006, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
Excuse me, but where exactly this is funny? Guy supposed to be a professional AND actually talking about gun safety in front of class of teenagers chamberes his Glock there (SIC!) and has his finger NOT out of trigger guard (SIC!!!)! Guy is an irresponsible moron! Was it so obvious to him, that bullet didnt LEAVE the room and perhaps MEET someone outside? MORON!Wonder if still in service after that one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well once to come to the understanding that no one was hurt.....much and watch his reaction i thought it was funny as all get out. of course he screwed up and i bet that was a carrier ender and if it had been one of my kids in there a posable life ender for him. i loved it at the end when he held up the m16 and people started to freak a bit lol.

T_O_A_D
03-02-2006, 06:36 PM
I think it was staged.

He had the action slid open, there should of been no shell in there. I have a Glock 40, I just checked it. You can not slide it open with out ejecting the shell.

See look right here, notice I {BANG!!!!!!!!!!!}
uh erm well uh hmm. bie bie.

fordfan25
03-02-2006, 06:39 PM
the clip was in and the slide was open from the start. when he closed the slide it chamberd the round thus BANG baby. coulda been worse though. he could have tried to feed one of the kidds to a croc http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

T_O_A_D
03-02-2006, 06:45 PM
Slid open, yes and checked by a second person for being empty. Hmm sure seems staged to me.

fordfan25
03-02-2006, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
is posable. would be a good way to teach the kids.....at least that thay need to AIM shot placement is everything http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

zombiewolf92553
03-02-2006, 07:36 PM
My buddy shot himeself in the leg with a 44 mag revolver. he was showing me his quick loader slamed the 6 rounds in slaped the chamber in place and Booom
into his leg then into the concrete then concrete in the face.

lucky to have followed the gun is always loaded rule and had in pointing down.
! split second of not paying attention. accidents happen.It sure stopped his "lack-a-daisy-ness"though.
It is very easy to get into complatency when you do the same thing over and over.
I love guns.I am not fond of ********ers or Wanna be's

fordfan25
03-02-2006, 09:12 PM
lucky he didnt loose that leg. iv seen arm's come off when hit by a 44mag. at least a deceant round. yea it is easy to forget and get careless. i always act like a gun is loaded. and i never take some ones word for it.

Badsight.
03-02-2006, 11:56 PM
apparently its an old video - or well knowen by gun nuts i was showen it first from

the funny part is the guy in the background giving him a hand

as well as the "im the most qualified person in this room" , just hilarious

Max.Power
03-03-2006, 01:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The body's reaction to such trauma is to close off the cappilaries to the torn tissue. There would be blood everywhere if he hit a major blood vessel. If he hit no such blood vessel, the would not be much bleeding. People aren't just bags full of blood, you know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not true. It depends on where you hit a body and what the person does. If he shot himself in the foot the overall pressure of the blood (ask raaaid about gravity and fluids) would cause a bleeding wound, no matter what.
Infact blunt-trauma ARE ruptured blood-vessels and the bluish color is from the blood no longer being provided with oxygene.

On the other hand, you also got to say, that the neural system is equally if not even more affected. If he had a trauma from a shot-wound, he wouldn't be able to stand on that leg. The pain would also cause a shock. He doesn't show any sign of that. Okay, he babbles street-style, but he does that before the pistol goes off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does not follow that there would be blood everwhere, as I was indicating in my post. I didn't say there would be no bleeding at all. The fact is that this man did shoot himself in the leg and that there was not blood everywhere. What exactly are you contesting?

As for the rest of your gobble-dee-**** about neural shock, hydrostatic disruption, or whatever you're on about, you're not correct.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
iv seen arm's come off when hit by a 44mag.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find this hard to believe. I don't mean this in a condescending way, mind you. What were the circumstances under which you observed the full/partial amputation caused by a .44 calibre magnum pistol?

Blottogg
03-03-2006, 07:55 AM
Blood vessels tend to constrict when cut, moreso with jagged wounds than clean cuts, or so said my Human Physiology instructor. Recall stories of farm accidents where arms are ripped off in machinery, yet the victim dials a phone for help (with a pencil in his mouth) and doesn't bleed to death before help arrives. Tales of limbs being amputated by handguns are probably pure Hollywood, though I could be wrong. Even big bore handguns don't pack much more energy than a good baseball bat swing, though in a more concentrated package. I'd just as soon pass on receiving either, just the same.

I like my Glock 20, though the caliber (10mm) never caught on in the 'States. Metric phobia I suppose. With a standard load it's got more punch than .45ACP or .40S&W. The lack of an external hammer or safety was intentional to avoid possible hang-ups when drawing from a holster, though these features would keep me from carrying it with a round chambered. With most of the mass in the slide, recoil is much less than a revolver or most other autos. It's a handful, but my hands are big enough, and fifteen rounds (or seventeen with my extended mag) is better than six or seven. Field stripping is easier than a 1911 too.

Staged or not, the video shows an excellent example of how not to safely handle firearms. I don't agree with a lot of the NRA's actions, but their gun safety work is very good. Along those lines, avoid complacency with procedure, and follow it rigorously. To wit: The weapon is ALWAYS loaded, remain aware of where you are pointing the weapon, and don't point the weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot.

BSS_Goat
03-03-2006, 08:01 AM
What a dumb@ss....

Pirschjaeger
03-03-2006, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Actually there is no excuse for him to do that with a full mag. I also doubt he shot himself and continued there, without anybody noticing blood or something. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you notice that after the gun discharged and he started walking around again, there was one person that approached from the rear of the class. It seems when he got close to the instructor, he looked down in the direction of his foot, and turned quickly, as if he saw something he didn´t want to see.

Either way, this guy should not be handling the guns. Here he is in a classroom full of people with a loaded gun. Not my opinion of an expert. He should have checked them before he brought them in the class.

There is no excuse for that one.

SeaFireLIV
03-03-2006, 10:16 AM
Guns are deadly, and like all deadly things will punish you big time for any mistakes.

Still he handled himself well, and it was funny when he picked up the SMG and everyone told him to put it back. Could be staged, but I don`t think so. I think if it were staged, he`d be rollin` about the place, but this guy is trying hard not to show himself up in front of the crowd... while waiting for the inevitable ambulance.

Pirschjaeger
03-03-2006, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
but this guy is trying hard not to show himself up in front of the crowd... while waiting for the inevitable ambulance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, yes, I have to agree. He did do well which makes me wonder if that was the first time he shoot himself in front of a crowd. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I really liked his last line just before the discharge. That was funny as hell. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I think he´s had better days. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kocur_
05-02-2006, 05:56 AM
My opinion on the guy was not improved, reading this:

"DEA Agent Who Shot Self In Foot Sues U.S.
Seeks damages for distribution of humiliating gun accident video
APRIL 11--A Drug Enforcement Administration agent who stars in a popular online video that shows him shooting himself in the foot during a weapons demonstration for Florida children is suing over the tape's release, claiming that his career has been crippled and he's become a laughingstock due to the embarrassing clip's distribution. Lee Paige, 45, blames the video's release on DEA officials in an April 7 federal lawsuit filed against the U.S. government. A copy of the pro se complaint by Paige, a DEA agent since 1990, can be found below. According to the lawsuit, Paige was making a "drug education presentation" in April 2004 to a Florida youth group when his firearm (a Glock .40) accidentally discharged. The shooting occurred moments after Paige told the children that he was the only person in the room professional enough to carry the weapon. The accident was filmed by an audience member, and the tape, Paige claims, was turned over to the DEA. The drug agency subsequently "improperly, illegally, willfully and/or intentionally" allowed the tape to be disseminated. As a result, Paige--pictured above in a still from the video--has been the "target of jokes, derision, ridicule, and disparaging comments" directed at him in restaurants, grocery stores, and airports. Paige, who writes that he was "once regarded as one of the best undercover agents, if not the best, in the DEA," points to the clip's recent airing on popular television shows and via the Internet as the reason he can no longer work undercover. He also notes that he is no longer "permitted or able to give educational motivational speeches and presentations."

Now I can join laughing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0411061foot1.html

Jatro13th
05-02-2006, 09:04 AM
Well, as far as safety is concerned, my opinion is that the best way not to get shot by a gun, is not having a gun, or, be near one when someone handles it.

I'm not one of the people who say that handguns should be banned, cause you can kill someone with the same ease with a knife, or your bear fists.

The thing is that, as experience has shown, it is far easier to accidentally kill someone with a gun, rather than with a knife, let alone a fist...

I understand people who like guns, I would sure like to have one, even for a couple of minutes, just to see how much it weighs, but I put my own and other people's safety first. I am not a criminal nor a law enforcer, so, a gun in my hands is useless. I cannot use it for anything useful, not even hunting. As for the issue of home safety and generally keeping the family safe, again, I personally regard this argument as highly disputable.

The only argument that stands in the pro-gun people's armamentarium is the 'tradition'. Where I come from, Greece, there are certain places where there is a tradition to keep guns. I mean, the people in Crete have even got a fully functional German Panzer in a village, captured during WWII. They have a 'tradition' of self defence, hence, the battle of Crete. But, when that tradition gets off hand, and people in marriages in the high time start bursting with Kalazhnikovs and the groom gets killed by accident... well... you get my point...

Anyway, what I am trying to say is, in these matters, have reason first, and keep passion in a second place.

People with guns, you have my respect for having the guts to own a gun, 'cause the resposnibility is immense. Nevertheless, as long as I am a person who makes mistakes, a sidearm has no place in my house.

Cheers!

A.K.Davis
05-02-2006, 09:41 AM
It's even easier to accidently kill someone with a car.

Targ
05-02-2006, 09:59 AM
Nothing wrong with 10mm in the US as many like that round. For CCW though it has to much penatrating power and thus the chance of hitting an innoocent is to great for me. I personally amn not a big fan of anything that peneatrates walls in my house or the neighbors house.
Great round though..
Nothing wrong with a Glock though, people either love em or hate em same as the 45.

J_Weaver
05-02-2006, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
That's a Glock for ya.

Why anyone would want plastic ****, much less a concealed hammer, is a mystery.

A 1911 is still the mest semi-auto around, but if .357 SIG is absolutely desired, then why not just get a SIG? DA sucks, too much play in the trigger, but you can't do much better than a SIG. H&K would be a good second choice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehehe...Glocks have to be ugliest guns ever made. However, they do work. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Personally, I'm a revolver man. They are simple and nothing to jam. I don'think the 1911 is a pos. Its one of the finest auto's ever made.

Anywho, I'd say the whole thing is an act. Accidents happen, but that is too perfect.

Edbert
05-02-2006, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
apparently its an old video - or well knowen by gun nuts i was showen it first from
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup, old indeed...take it from one of those gun nuts.

Last I heard is this guy is b1tching because he cannot get employed anymore, seems every LEA has heard of him by now and he's on the top of their black lists.

J_Weaver
05-02-2006, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jatro13th:
People with guns, you have my respect for having the guts to own a gun, 'cause the resposnibility is immense. Nevertheless, as long as I am a person who makes mistakes, a sidearm has no place in my house.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to commend you sir for offering your opinion in a respectful way. All to often these days people just seem to yell at each other and not accomplish a thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I agree that owning a firearm is an immense responsibility. However, I have to disagree with your point about self defense. It is a man's most basic, God given right to protect himself, his loved one and his property from harm. Sometimes owning and being able to responsibly use a firearm may be the difference between life and death. When someone breaks open your kitchen door a 3 a.m. it my very well be too late by the time the police arrive.

Kocur_
05-02-2006, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Edbert:

Last I heard is this guy is b1tching because he cannot get employed anymore, seems every LEA has heard of him by now and he's on the top of their black lists. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing indicates he was fired from DEA. He was suspended for a while back in 2005 and currently, after becoming so POPULAR, he cant be undercover agent. And, oh injustice! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif, he is "no longer "permitted or able to give educational motivational speeches and presentations." The latter is QUOTATION from his lawsuit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fordfan25
05-02-2006, 06:30 PM
wow who brought this topic up againe lol

Jatro13th
05-02-2006, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Weaver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jatro13th:
People with guns, you have my respect for having the guts to own a gun, 'cause the resposnibility is immense. Nevertheless, as long as I am a person who makes mistakes, a sidearm has no place in my house.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to commend you sir for offering your opinion in a respectful way. All to often these days people just seem to yell at each other and not accomplish a thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I agree that owning a firearm is an immense responsibility. However, I have to disagree with your point about self defense. It is a man's most basic, God given right to protect himself, his loved one and his property from harm. Sometimes owning and being able to responsibly use a firearm may be the difference between life and death. When someone breaks open your kitchen door a 3 a.m. it my very well be too late by the time the police arrive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, I know... I used to be one of the people who would shout about things like this. But then I realised that the more I shouted, the more the other person's ears would block me out... So, my approach now is just to say my opinion in a civil way, and backed up in the most logical way possible. If only 1% of what I say is understood by my fellow talker, then I consider my goal accomplished...

As far as the self defence thing... I never said that self defence is not every person's right. But, as far as self defence with guns is concerned, I find myself reluctant to beleive that a gun, or even a rifle would do any good for two simple reasons.

1. It might be your relative coming late at night...

2. If the burglar sees you have a gun, then it is most probable that, if he has one too, the chances of him using it to fire back come up to something like 99.99% if not 100%. So, you can imagine the end result...

It is just a matter of how probable you find these things occuring.

I was brought up in a non-gun environment. Although my dad would go hunting, he would keep the rifle locked in a wardrobe in the cellar with the key locked away in his office away from home. And of course he would buy cartridges (is that what's it called in English?) the day before going hunting. If he did not use the whole lot of them on that particular day, then at the end he would fire all the rest of them in the air so as not to have any lying about...

So, although, as I formerly said, would like to have a gun just for the fun of it, I consider myself to be a trigger-phobic and I find nothing wrong with that.

Now, the fact that people today still consider that they need protection in such a drastic way, is an indicator of the quality of the moral fibre of our society (I'm not saying that people who have guns are immoral, I'm saying that society itself is immoral). So, the real argument for me is not the legality of guns, but why do we even consider being threatened? The real question is crime and its roots. If there is no crime, there is no need for guns...

I saw earlier someone saying that it is more probable to have an accident with a car. I expected something like that to come up. Well, it is true I must admit, but my answer to this is that a car is built for something usefull. It transports us from one place to another. The fact that some people drive carelessly does not lower the value of such an invention.
Now, as I said, according to me , the gun has no value whatsoever as an invention, even for self defence, cause it will resolve things very simply... in a bloodbath...
The comparison of a car with a gun is like a comparison of the ace of spades with Kaiser Wilhelm the second...

Now, the fact that I 'cut some slack' from people with guns, doesn't mean that I wont eat the living heart with my own teeth off of someone who might accidentally hurt a loved one with his inherently dangerous hobby...

Sorry for the long answer guys, but this is a topic which is not so easily depleated in a word or two...

Cheers!

Enforcer572005
05-02-2006, 09:14 PM
In my 10 yrs as a 911 dispatcher, I never had to send a police car to an ARMED individual (always a woman btw) who was terrified because some doped up moron was coming thru her window...it was always the unarmed ones who were screaming and begging for mercy. My ex girlfriend, whom I had instructed how to shoot, did call me with one coming thru her window, despite him seeing her weapon (doped up). cops got there before she had to do him, but she wasnt facing death...HE was. ALL the victims of violent crime during my 911 tour were unarmed in my experience.

Best way to aviod shooting your grandma, is simply to id the target. People who have no experience with firearms sometimes cant understand where those of us who do are coming from, just as non aviation enthusiasts cant always understand why we do this stuff.

And the 1911 is a great weapon, its just a bit short of ammo capacity and is picky about bullet design and magazine quality. If you have proper ammo and good magazines, an automatic is actually less prone to jam than a revolver with all its openings. My glocks would all feed empty cases and shoot semiwadcutter bullets without modification. My IPSC match 1911 Colt would ALMOST do that after alot of modification and work. Most Glock detractors dont have much experience wiht the weapon....i didnt like it either until I won one in an extended combat match back in 86. Everyone thought I was nuts later for shooting against compensated, accurized 45s using a 9mm, until i handily beat them. Just needed bigger bullets, which hte 10mm solved, as well as the 45 and 40.

And how the blazes does anyone have an AD with a double action revolver, especially a 44? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Dew-Claw
05-02-2006, 09:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Actually, he handles it rather well for having shot himself. His point is well proven. "I'm a professional and I made a mistake. You could be blown away." </div></BLOCKQUOTE> he didnt actually shoot him self. if he had blood would be every wear. he eather grazed his leg or more than likely got a good powder burn. a 40cal would have caused alot of bleeding and thay would have been trying to stop it ect. and yea foul ups happen. at 13 i shoot my step dads very pricey cider dresser with a win 30-30 while unloading it. ill tell you what that dresser treated me with more respect after that LOL. local SD invetagator is a former army ranger sniper and not long ago shot himself in the foot while cleaning his weapon also a glock, it can happen to anyone if thay dont keep a clear head or get in a hurry. plus a glocknot haveing a external safty does not help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anything can happen anytime.

In College I was firing an old colt .45 into a steel trap for comparison purposes...CSI stuff

The trap is just a box with the back of the open front at a 45 degree angle so the round is ricocheted up into a drum that spins the energy out so the round can be collected.


That back ramp gets a little pockmarked from use.
I fired at 10 yards and the round hit a pockmark and shattered sending about 1/3rd of it right back at me and into my right shoulder just under the skin in the upper arm shoulder area.
at first it felt like someone hit me with a hammer..then as the "sting" faded, poked a hot rod into the hole.

It was really superficial and I just pulled the metal out from under he skin....but
OWWWWWWwwww!

JunkoIfurita
05-02-2006, 11:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Enforcer572005:
In my 10 yrs as a 911 dispatcher, I never had to send a police car to an ARMED individual (always a woman btw) who was terrified because some doped up moron was coming thru her window...it was always the unarmed ones who were screaming and begging for mercy. My ex girlfriend, whom I had instructed how to shoot, did call me with one coming thru her window, despite him seeing her weapon (doped up). cops got there before she had to do him, but she wasnt facing death...HE was. ALL the victims of violent crime during my 911 tour were unarmed in my experience.

Best way to aviod shooting your grandma, is simply to id the target. People who have no experience with firearms sometimes cant understand where those of us who do are coming from, just as non aviation enthusiasts cant always understand why we do this stuff.

And the 1911 is a great weapon, its just a bit short of ammo capacity and is picky about bullet design and magazine quality. If you have proper ammo and good magazines, an automatic is actually less prone to jam than a revolver with all its openings. My glocks would all feed empty cases and shoot semiwadcutter bullets without modification. My IPSC match 1911 Colt would ALMOST do that after alot of modification and work. Most Glock detractors dont have much experience wiht the weapon....i didnt like it either until I won one in an extended combat match back in 86. Everyone thought I was nuts later for shooting against compensated, accurized 45s using a 9mm, until i handily beat them. Just needed bigger bullets, which hte 10mm solved, as well as the 45 and 40.

And how the blazes does anyone have an AD with a double action revolver, especially a 44? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand where you're coming from re: victims of violent crime, but to be honest you are living in a country that is statistically skewed from the rest of the world. America has something like 100,000 deaths by firearm in a year...compare that to Australia's average of 39 and Canada's of 12.

I live in Australia, where handguns are outlawed for everyone except for law enforcement. This doesn't mean that they don't exist, only that they're illegal to own.

Now the standard argument here is that 'Now only the lawbreakers have firearms and the honest folk don't'. I know in Australia at least, this is not the case. Handguns are simply too difficult to obtain - because they are outlawed there is no market to obtain them, so there are fewer available also on the blackmarket.

Violent crime in Australia (of which there is some...not a great deal) is usually characterised by knives, or the occasional shotgun for the organised types.

You don't get crazed up junkies with Handguns or even shotguns, simply because you'd need to be very resourceful with plenty of black market connections to obtain one. Not to mention a good deal of money...something junkies rarely have.

Our junkies are a pretty sedate breed, actually...mostly they spend their dole (welfare) checks. I vastly prefer that (and yes, I pay plenty of tax) to them holding up service stations.

The point of this meandering story is that I've yet to require a gun to defend myself. I'm quite capable of taking care of somebody intimidating me with conventional means...and in the unlikely case of actually facing someone with a gun...put myself in a kill or be killed situation? No thanks...

WWMaxGunz
05-03-2006, 01:38 AM
Prior to this post below I was thinking maybe he had blanks loaded to illustrate a lesson.

But now... he had *live* ammo loaded for what?!? Dialup here so I didn't see it but unless
that class was on a range then WTH was he doing with live ammo there?

Really I can understand why the video got released. This guy is full of himself to the point
of being in a position to do what he did while yapping on about how great he is, the only one
there pro enough, instead of paying attention and thinking ahead he runs his mouth. He should
be kept from putting on his shows, that **** just impresses kids and gets them wanting more.
It takes hands on and time to teach, and obviously not everyone is capable of respecting the
weapons and ammo even after years. Whoever released that video did a service to everyone.

Neal

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
My opinion on the guy was not improved, reading this:

"DEA Agent Who Shot Self In Foot Sues U.S.
Seeks damages for distribution of humiliating gun accident video
APRIL 11--A Drug Enforcement Administration agent who stars in a popular online video that shows him shooting himself in the foot during a weapons demonstration for Florida children is suing over the tape's release, claiming that his career has been crippled and he's become a laughingstock due to the embarrassing clip's distribution. Lee Paige, 45, blames the video's release on DEA officials in an April 7 federal lawsuit filed against the U.S. government. A copy of the pro se complaint by Paige, a DEA agent since 1990, can be found below. According to the lawsuit, Paige was making a "drug education presentation" in April 2004 to a Florida youth group when his firearm (a Glock .40) accidentally discharged. The shooting occurred moments after Paige told the children that he was the only person in the room professional enough to carry the weapon. The accident was filmed by an audience member, and the tape, Paige claims, was turned over to the DEA. The drug agency subsequently "improperly, illegally, willfully and/or intentionally" allowed the tape to be disseminated. As a result, Paige--pictured above in a still from the video--has been the "target of jokes, derision, ridicule, and disparaging comments" directed at him in restaurants, grocery stores, and airports. Paige, who writes that he was "once regarded as one of the best undercover agents, if not the best, in the DEA," points to the clip's recent airing on popular television shows and via the Internet as the reason he can no longer work undercover. He also notes that he is no longer "permitted or able to give educational motivational speeches and presentations."

Now I can join laughing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0411061foot1.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gwalker70
05-03-2006, 01:51 AM
that guy is actually on disability now becuase of mental issues.. hes trying to sue everybody becuase of this actual clip that is all over the internet

WWMaxGunz
05-03-2006, 02:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jatro13th:
2. If the burglar sees you have a gun, then it is most probable that, if he has one too, the chances of him using it to fire back come up to something like 99.99% if not 100%. So, you can imagine the end result... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You watch a lot of TV don't you?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If he did not use the whole lot of them on that particular day, then at the end he would fire all the rest of them in the air so as not to have any lying about... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a good move at all. The bullets come back down somewhere. I am always inside on New Years
Eve. The chance of a hit is very small but the result is too much. We who fire guns with
responsibility do not fire without a backstop. The ground can be your backstop, or a hill.
I lived in a small college town where a 10 year old fired a .22 at a bird on a mailbox and
about a mile away it killed a tennis player as he jumped for the ball. Really from Marrows
Road to the Student Union may be farther than that. A little higher and one of the crowd
in the stands would have very likely been hit.

-----------------------------------------------------

I shot targets mostly for 3 solid years and there was nothing wrong with that. Target shooting
is very good for your eyes, muscles, nerves and body discipline. Also good practice for other
shooting. It taught me some major responsibility, I have never misused a weapon since and
have more respect for them than some anti-gun fools I've known who did play with unloaded
guns. Somehow if you don't have the 'bad' intent then the things are safe! What I saw made
me have to hold down vomit but to those over-20 kids it was still toys.

Cars are as dangerous even when care is taken which it very, very often is not.

USA 2003 ---
30,136 gun deaths TOTAL
16,907 were suicides, 56% -- in the usual percent btw.
11,902 were homicides, 40%
730 were unintention shootings.
347 from legal intervention. Yes, so few. Hollywood would have that in two movies.
232 were undetermined intent.

US population is 300 million now and very mixed.

In 2003 there were over 42,000 deaths due to cars. Probably all were accidents when you count
intoxicated driving and inattentive driving as accidents. I don't know how many were suicide.

WWMaxGunz
05-03-2006, 02:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
that guy is actually on disability now becuase of mental issues.. hes trying to sue everybody becuase of this actual clip that is all over the internet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He had problems before then or that would not have happened. Too much ego... still he does
not accept responsibility.

I don't much like your sig. Do you have ANY IDEA how many people you just painted so bad?
I guess that's what it takes to come here and be a terrorist or just PAY for others to.

Mostly it's the pay others that goes on, otherwise Iraq would be without war or troops.
But the big money keeps flowing while the stupid rhetoric like your stupid sig line keeps
the excuses working. And the young guys go to die, both sides.
Congratulations, YOU are part of the problem.

Gwalker70
05-03-2006, 02:43 AM
I was in gulf 1 and I pay my taxes.. so guess what.. F off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kocur_
05-03-2006, 03:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:

USA 2003 ---
30,136 gun deaths TOTAL
16,907 were suicides, 56% -- in the usual percent btw.
11,902 were homicides, 40%
730 were unintention shootings.
347 from legal intervention. Yes, so few. Hollywood would have that in two movies.
232 were undetermined intent.

US population is 300 million now and very mixed.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is also worth pointing out that "homicide" category includes both criminal actions and those legal, i.e. self defence. In another words number of murders commited with firearms is smaller than the numbers quoted in that category and the rest is made of cases, where life, health or property of honest people, who were attacked by criminals was defended.

Btw crime statistics are AFAIK dropping all over USA, but the drop is fastests in those states, where gun laws are most, khem, liberal, meaning a citizen can legally carry a gun in concealment.

carguy_
05-03-2006, 03:43 AM
Uhuh,what next?You gonna compare gun death tolls with ppl suffocating with food?Baloney!

Same as comparing airline catastrophes with car accidents.

WWMaxGunz
05-03-2006, 09:16 AM
Because choking deaths are so few compared? What is your relevance that something so
rare means that something so widespread has little meaning? Who makes someone else
choke? Does the cop say put that baloney sandwich down? Will you get arrested for
eating too fast and aggresively? I should not joke though as fast food is a problem.

You fear the gun is fine by me. You are safe from mine unless you break my door down.
Even then you must break through slowly as rifle, bolt and ammo are all kept seperate.

What is the problem to show that responsibility is the issue? With anything dangerous
there must be responsibility, must be respect. Disrespect of guns leads to some deaths
and disrespect of cars leads to a few times more. Car deaths do not tell of the larger
numbers of wounded and disabled people. Same with gun deaths. Which am I more likely
to see on the news? Cars. Fires. Then guns. Maybe they will report death by obesity?

A.K.Davis
05-03-2006, 09:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Uhuh,what next?You gonna compare gun death tolls with ppl suffocating with food?Baloney!

Same as comparing airline catastrophes with car accidents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point! People are insanely afraid of guns and airplanes, when they should actually be scared to death every time they get in a car.

Jatro13th
05-03-2006, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jatro13th:
2. If the burglar sees you have a gun, then it is most probable that, if he has one too, the chances of him using it to fire back come up to something like 99.99% if not 100%. So, you can imagine the end result... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You watch a lot of TV don't you?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If he did not use the whole lot of them on that particular day, then at the end he would fire all the rest of them in the air so as not to have any lying about... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a good move at all. The bullets come back down somewhere. I am always inside on New Years
Eve. The chance of a hit is very small but the result is too much. We who fire guns with
responsibility do not fire without a backstop. The ground can be your backstop, or a hill.
I lived in a small college town where a 10 year old fired a .22 at a bird on a mailbox and
about a mile away it killed a tennis player as he jumped for the ball. Really from Marrows
Road to the Student Union may be farther than that. A little higher and one of the crowd
in the stands would have very likely been hit.

-----------------------------------------------------

I shot targets mostly for 3 solid years and there was nothing wrong with that. Target shooting
is very good for your eyes, muscles, nerves and body discipline. Also good practice for other
shooting. It taught me some major responsibility, I have never misused a weapon since and
have more respect for them than some anti-gun fools I've known who did play with unloaded
guns. Somehow if you don't have the 'bad' intent then the things are safe! What I saw made
me have to hold down vomit but to those over-20 kids it was still toys.

Cars are as dangerous even when care is taken which it very, very often is not.

USA 2003 ---
30,136 gun deaths TOTAL
16,907 were suicides, 56% -- in the usual percent btw.
11,902 were homicides, 40%
730 were unintention shootings.
347 from legal intervention. Yes, so few. Hollywood would have that in two movies.
232 were undetermined intent.

US population is 300 million now and very mixed.

In 2003 there were over 42,000 deaths due to cars. Probably all were accidents when you count
intoxicated driving and inattentive driving as accidents. I don't know how many were suicide. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. What I'm saying is that when you have two guns opposing each other, then, no matter how much TV I watch, if one finds its target then the end result is blood... and YOU NEVER KNOW WHO'S!!!!!

2. When my father was shooting birds, the pellets that didn't find the target would come down, but they never hit anyone, so did the two or three rounds he would fire at the end.

3. I never objected firing against targets. But if recreation is the reason you own a gun, I guess that the gun could remain in the club in a safe, instead of being taken home with the owner.

Anyway, I think the real problem here is why people do not feel safe and have such a fear in some societies (including mine as I said in a previous post) that they need a gun under their pillow. Why is the crime soaring in our so-called developed societies? Is it the donkey's fault and we keep on flogging the saddle?

It is my opinion that the gun gives an illusion of safety... It won't do me any good if when I confront the person who broke into my house I freeze 'cause I've never shot a man before, or if I do have the guts to shoot, he is quicker than me...

Having a gun treats the symptoms of crime and not crime itself.

So... MaxGunz, I guess in the end we find ourselves being in agreement about the society and its faults. There is no point in arguing about if having a gun or not will do any good. The point is to get our heads down and see the problems at their origin. The debate of whether we should own a gun or not is as important as whether we are facing north or south when we are in deep space. It has little real value and there is basicaly no real solution if we face it in isolation.

Cheers everyone!

Tully__
05-03-2006, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
I was in gulf 1 and I pay my taxes.. so guess what.. F off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Suspended 1 week and sig removed. If the same sig comes back after the suspension is lifted it will be made a permanent ban.

Lucius_Esox
05-03-2006, 12:31 PM
Guns are designed to kill. What people do with them is how they are used, but they are still designed to kill,, or maim.

It's a psychological thing I think because of the above. Maybe this is why people are more scared of them than cars.

I_KG100_Prien
05-03-2006, 12:48 PM
There is no such thing as an "Accidental" Discharge, however there are such things as "Negligent" discharges.. I've seen that video many times and if it wasn't some kind of intentional "theatrics".. You need to pay attention to something..

When he pulls the pistol out of his holster to do his "clear and safe" check, you'll see that the only thing he did was lock the slide to the rear.. He did not remove the magazine, unless of course it was done by his assistant, which you cannot see because of the bit of "out of camera" that occours just before the gun is fired.

Now, going on his oversight to remove the source of ammunition from the pistol prior (or after) locking the slide to the rear, then the weapon was never actually cleared, and when he sent the slide forward, guess what.. New round in chamber and you have the result that we all see on the video tape.

There was nothing accidental about that pistol going off. Z-E-R-O. However there was some negligence and a lack of paying attention to what he was doing.

I have ONE time seen anything that could even remotely be classified as an "accidental" discharge.. Which was a M240B barking off a round due to a mechanical malfunction in the sear.

Accident is a very misused word when applied to many of the bad things that we se happen in our lives.. Guns going off, vehicle collisions, guys falling off ladders.. whatever.. 9/10 times the incident is caused by someone not paying attention to what they were doing, and of course throw in the use of mind altering subtances.. etc... In otherwords.. it's the Human Factor.

Clearing a Glock is as simple as..

1. Remove Magazine.
2. Lock slide to rear
3. Visually inspect to ensure no round is still present in chamber.

Actually.. those 3 steps can be modified to fit any firearm.

Hate to say it, if that wasn't staged.. The guy had a serious lapse in basic firearm handling procedures and safety.

fordfan25
05-03-2006, 02:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And the 1911 is a great weapon, its just a bit short of ammo capacity and is picky about bullet design and magazine quality. If you have proper ammo and good magazines, an automatic is actually less prone to jam than a revolver with all its openings. My glocks would all feed empty cases and shoot semiwadcutter bullets without modification. My IPSC match 1911 Colt would ALMOST do that after alot of modification and work. Most Glock detractors dont have much experience wiht the weapon....i didnt like it either until I won one in an extended combat match back in 86. Everyone thought I was nuts later for shooting against compensated, accurized 45s using a 9mm, until i handily beat them. Just needed bigger bullets, which hte 10mm solved, as well as the 45 and 40. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ill agree its a great weapon but past its time. you stated it all. smaller ammo capacity,and bullet disgn pluse good ones are over priced. a glock or springfeild XD even in 45 cal offers 13+ rounds,are lighter weight,PROVEN to be just as resistent to normal wear and tear plus at least in glocks case will shoot anything you put in it. i disagree about revolvers being more prone to jam's. with the rare exp of ammo failures iv had 100% reliable exp in ANY even the cheap saterday nights revolvers iv owned. but to each his own. By the way i just bought a 357.sig glock 32. if you havent tried them give them a look. VERY accurite and 300rounds in with chaep WWB ammo 100% reliable. bites the hand a little more than the 40 but iv exp a little less muzzle rise , on par with a good 9mm round but more punch.

fordfan25
05-03-2006, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Clearing a Glock is as simple as..

1. Remove Magazine.
2. Lock slide to rear
3. Visually inspect to ensure no round is still present in chamber.

Actually.. those 3 steps can be modified to fit any firearm.

Hate to say it, if that wasn't staged.. The guy had a serious lapse in basic firearm handling procedures and safety. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you forgot #4 always point the gun at something valuable and pull the trigger just to be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

J_Weaver
05-03-2006, 03:59 PM
I think Alan Ladd put it best in the movie "Shane".

"A gun is a tool. No better, no worse than anyother tool. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it."

WWMaxGunz
05-03-2006, 04:14 PM
S! Jatro!

Shotgun! I did not know. Very built-in range limits unless you fire slugs then moderate
range capability with big damage. I was told long ago that shotgun and slug is more effective
for very big game than a high powered rifle, and then shown why.

If you are not trained and don't know if you would use the gun then best not to have it in
a home invasion or robbery. A trained attacker will maybe take it away, you might even get
robbed just to get the gun! In close fighting a knife is better anyway but again only in
trained hands. And most robbers are not so trained.

We also have occasional nutcases like the sniper down near DC a couple years back now.
300 million people and not enough cops to begin to watch it all, either you protect yourself
or you don't. It is an option to have the gun and really taking them away will not make the
world safe as it was even worse back before there were guns.

fordfan25
05-03-2006, 07:48 PM
yea a good 12g shotgun "i like a heavy bird shot or 00buck" is a great self defence weapon. how ever in home "unless you live in a very large space's house" it is to combersome and easy to have take away from you and in close such as in a grappling situation to hard to bring to bear.As far as hunting its good up close for hogs ect but has no real effective range to it compaired to a HP rifle. my step dad regulerly takes large deer at over 1k yards with his mouser 270. IMHO. as far as knife fighting...ill still take a gun anyday.i can fire it from the hip as easy as from a aiming stance. i can also pull the trigger faster than i can swing a knife http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WWMaxGunz
05-04-2006, 01:08 AM
I've seen an old time Colt that had interchangeable barrels and I forget the name of the
drum (doh!) to switch between 45 cal and .410 shotgun. The name I heard is Colorado Snake
Gun used to kill rattlers from horseback or I guess on foot. It'd make a mess of someone's
face and no doubt spoil their aim even if it didn't kill em right out at close range.

I never heard it fire shot but considering how much noise a long barrel 410 makes I would
guess tha loud don't cover it. Probably make one H of a flash too with powder burns at
least out to 3-4 feet. Whooo-hoooo!

Gwalker70
05-04-2006, 02:00 AM
Tully...ok perma ban me.. lol ill just spoof my IP and rereg with a diff name and come up with another sig that I like... you dont scare me.. work on your communist tactics some kiddo