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Poodle_of_Doom
07-31-2011, 04:37 PM
This is something I've been pondering for a while now. I assume he's dead, but there's a few things I can't figure out.

For example, in the conversation between him and Desmond in the animus:

Desmond completes the virtual maze, and encounters Subject 16.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Desmond: Subject 16?
<LI>Subject 16: (laughs) Yes, yes, Subject 17.
<LI>Desmond: You're dead. I saw your blood!
[/list]

From the wiki:

During his incarceration, Desmond spoke often with Dr. Vidic's assistant Lucy Stillman about many things, including his predecessor, Subject 16. Lucy, however, was often uncomfortable with speaking about him, as she blamed herself for his death.

It seems to confirm he's passed on, and suggested that he killed himself. However, in one of the videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKEOTXsbmQ) (4:50, 6:54), he says "She sees me raise the knife." Later, he goes on to apologize to Lucy, and immediately says "She sees me raise the knife." (I assume he's talking specifically about Lucy seeing him.) After saying it this second time, he states "I just can't do it anymore. I'm sorry."

I would imagine that from this that this marks the spot where he passed away. I also assume that he made the video first, implanted it into the animus, and died, as this is the logical order. However, there's one thing I don't understand. How could he say the second time that she saw him raise the knife? Even if he knew that, he'd not be around to comment on it, unless he was stopped a second time, right? Do you think he intended for Lucy to see? Do you think that this comment in the video is when he passed away?

Poodle_of_Doom
07-31-2011, 04:37 PM
This is something I've been pondering for a while now. I assume he's dead, but there's a few things I can't figure out.

For example, in the conversation between him and Desmond in the animus:

Desmond completes the virtual maze, and encounters Subject 16.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Desmond: Subject 16?
<LI>Subject 16: (laughs) Yes, yes, Subject 17.
<LI>Desmond: You're dead. I saw your blood!
[/list]

From the wiki:

During his incarceration, Desmond spoke often with Dr. Vidic's assistant Lucy Stillman about many things, including his predecessor, Subject 16. Lucy, however, was often uncomfortable with speaking about him, as she blamed herself for his death.

It seems to confirm he's passed on, and suggested that he killed himself. However, in one of the videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKEOTXsbmQ) (4:50, 6:54), he says "She sees me raise the knife." Later, he goes on to apologize to Lucy, and immediately says "She sees me raise the knife." (I assume he's talking specifically about Lucy seeing him.) After saying it this second time, he states "I just can't do it anymore. I'm sorry."

I would imagine that from this that this marks the spot where he passed away. I also assume that he made the video first, implanted it into the animus, and died, as this is the logical order. However, there's one thing I don't understand. How could he say the second time that she saw him raise the knife? Even if he knew that, he'd not be around to comment on it, unless he was stopped a second time, right? Do you think he intended for Lucy to see? Do you think that this comment in the video is when he passed away?

Serrachio
07-31-2011, 04:45 PM
Maybe, driven by the extreme side effects of the Animus, Subject 16 tried a suicide attempt and was stopped by Lucy, who could have called security to restrain him until he was sedated.

Later on, he would then succeed in taking his own life, and Lucy witnessed it again, and he apologizes to her while he's on the Animus as some sort of reason why he isn't happy living any more.

LightRey
07-31-2011, 04:54 PM
I'm pretty sure he's just bringing up what he's seeing because of the bleeding effect. The "she" is someone from the hallucinations of his genetic memory.
He brings up several similarly odd facts from what appear to be different situations, which are very likely from his genetic memory.

Poodle_of_Doom
07-31-2011, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
Later on, he would then succeed in taking his own life, and Lucy witnessed it again, and he apologizes to her while he's on the Animus as some sort of reason why he isn't happy living any more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See, I've come to this same conclusion several times, knowing that it's wrong, because if he's succeed, he wouldn't be able to apologize to Lucy, or he planned to do it in front of her and apologized preemptively.

I like what lightrey said so far.

itsamea-mario
07-31-2011, 06:44 PM
No, I think it's pretty much like lightrey said. Just another hallucination.
He says sorry to Lucy for what he's about to do.

Poodle_of_Doom
07-31-2011, 07:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
No, I think it's pretty much like lightrey said. Just another hallucination.
He says sorry to Lucy for what he's about to do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got you... I was a little puzzled by it. I know it seems simple, but I just couldn't get it there for a moment...

flyingeaglemile
07-31-2011, 09:36 PM
Yah I also remember him going on about drowning and maybe going off into a war type battle and getting shot (I haven`t done the puzzles in awhile so this might be wrong) but he talked about dying a few times and all in different ways.

Poodle_of_Doom
07-31-2011, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flyingeaglemile:
Yah I also remember him going on about drowning and maybe going off into a war type battle and getting shot (I haven`t done the puzzles in awhile so this might be wrong) but he talked about dying a few times and all in different ways. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the video I referenced in my original post contains all the information you're referencing.... He stabs a man, gets shot, drowns, and a bunch of other things. The guy goes psycho from dying to many times.

To me, it just seemed like this one particular piece of information was directed specifically at Lucy. It was like the other ones, where he was hallucinating. This one seemed cognitive, and direct, like he knew what he was saying, and who he was saying it too...

Calvarok
07-31-2011, 11:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
I'm pretty sure he's just bringing up what he's seeing because of the bleeding effect. The "she" is someone from the hallucinations of his genetic memory.
He brings up several similarly odd facts from what appear to be different situations, which are very likely from his genetic memory. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first time he does it, it seems that way. At the end, I think he's talking about actually doing it, since he just said that he couldn't go on with life. He's remembering a similar situation from a memory he relived.

EDIT: what the above guy said.

Poodle_of_Doom
08-01-2011, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
I'm pretty sure he's just bringing up what he's seeing because of the bleeding effect. The "she" is someone from the hallucinations of his genetic memory.
He brings up several similarly odd facts from what appear to be different situations, which are very likely from his genetic memory. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first time he does it, it seems that way. At the end, I think he's talking about actually doing it, since he just said that he couldn't go on with life. He's remembering a similar situation from a memory he relived.

EDIT: what the above guy said. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So it seems to me as if I'm not the only one who got that impression either then.

LightRey
08-01-2011, 10:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
I'm pretty sure he's just bringing up what he's seeing because of the bleeding effect. The "she" is someone from the hallucinations of his genetic memory.
He brings up several similarly odd facts from what appear to be different situations, which are very likely from his genetic memory. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first time he does it, it seems that way. At the end, I think he's talking about actually doing it, since he just said that he couldn't go on with life. He's remembering a similar situation from a memory he relived.

EDIT: what the above guy said. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So it seems to me as if I'm not the only one who got that impression either then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well at this point it's speculation at best and the evidence seems to be pointing the other way, so I'm sticking with my conclusion.

Poodle_of_Doom
08-01-2011, 12:44 PM
One last question,... I mind farted before, as I was going to bring it up, but having sharted all my thoughts into typing what little I did, I lost it somewhere. Whats up with the I AM ALIVE crap S16 has been programming in?

Mikatsuki95
08-01-2011, 01:36 PM
Couldn't say for sure on that. I guess it was their way of saying that 16 isn't just some guy that came before Desmond and died. We'll see more of in Revelations. In my copy of GameInformer it was confirmed that we'll learn who he is in the next game. Although I have to say, given all the hype, suspense, and most of all mystery placed around 16, the answer to who or what he is better not be a disapointment. Like I hope its waay more than just finding out what his real name is.

LightRey
08-01-2011, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
One last question,... I mind farted before, as I was going to bring it up, but having sharted all my thoughts into typing what little I did, I lost it somewhere. Whats up with the I AM ALIVE crap S16 has been programming in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I'm assuming it has something to do with the whole cluster shizzle. At least part of his conscious seems to still be "alive".

Poodle_of_Doom
08-01-2011, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
One last question,... I mind farted before, as I was going to bring it up, but having sharted all my thoughts into typing what little I did, I lost it somewhere. Whats up with the I AM ALIVE crap S16 has been programming in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I'm assuming it has something to do with the whole cluster shizzle. At least part of his conscious seems to still be "alive". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I could buy that for the time being. Thanks a lot guys.