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Jumoschwanz
04-15-2005, 09:18 PM
Ok here are the secrets,

Really no secrets but common sense. Good eyesight is not a must, all you have to do is be able to see two feet to your monitor. But, monitor resolution and graphics settings might make a difference in seeing other craft so play with your settings and find what works for you.

The biggest how is identifying aircraft, is it a friend or foe?

This is easy after you get the hang of it. First of all, the planes DO have different silhouettes. Even far away if you practice you can get a good idea of what is coming at you. Use the "page down" key and get a telescopic view of the dot, this helps too.

Learn what the different tracers look like. When a plane fires it is easy to tell if it is allied or axis this way.

What is the dot doing? If it is coming into your airspace at high altitude in the direction from the enemy line it is a good chance it is a foe. After a fight or ground attack, many hit the deck for home. So if it is going toward the enemy line on the deck or toward an enemy airbase it might be a foe. Of course those pursuing ground targets might be on the deck both ways. Know where the targets and air bases are. This way you will have a good idea what side a dot is on by where it is going, what altitude it is at and what speed it is traveling.

Also there is AAA fire which is a big help. Know where the line is and where the AAA batteries are and they will ID foes for you.

Spotting dots in the first place:

Figure out likely flight paths for the foe and position yourself so you sandwich them between you and a cloud, when they pass the cloud you got em! Of course over snow you are in better shape spotting craft from high altitude.
Once you spot a dot and know what it looks like you will notice it is easier to see. You will have to do a lot of hard looking. You are on a hunt, enjoy it.

If you are covering or attacking ground attackers then you will be low and in better shape to spot those against the sky.

There is really no unsolvable problems or any mystery for flying on servers with these settings. Just takes a different set of techniques is all and you are learning them now.

And if you can use the sun of course you will right? Ideally you are in the sun and the foe is in front of a cloud, you can make this happen.

When you see a furball below, don't dive through it, dive before it then zoom up through, this will give you time to see and Id craft by thier tracers and you will be able to see their silouhettes against the sky. Also, if someone blows your wing off or you collide with someone, you will be going up and slowing down so you can bail, instead of down at 700km/hr trapped in the plane.

Good luck, S!

Jumoschwanz

LeadSpitter_
04-15-2005, 09:21 PM
you mean full real or full difficulty settings, calling it full switch is silly

karost
04-16-2005, 01:47 AM
they have 3 type of difficult setting
1. History setting ( mean get as close as possible to a history simulation ) like full switch or full history ..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
2. Custom ( compromise setting close to "real" ) as we know a some limitation can not simulate cockpit close to a history like
a) monitor resolution .. so need custom icon setup
b) not everyone has TrakIR and can not moving pilot's head to side way or up-down or view mapping like TW..so need speed bar

(# NEED TO KNOW WHAT BOB WILL DO TO FIX THIS)

3. Airquak Fun setting.



No cockpit --> need POV skill
No icon --> need S.A. skill
No mini map(GIS) --> need navigator skill
No speed bar --> need more work load

the funny thing is ... mini map icon (GIS) is show our position on the map then it still was calling a "full real" ?

ok I like to add some tip for a full "history" server setup. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

when you spot a dot about 10 km. so you need then check scan 360' (every 2 min.) to update your S.A. , so if you design to getting close to ID. him but can not apply on sun behide coz he also see you and alert by heading to you , let him stay on your 2-3 or 10-11 o'clock window and pull up climb when get close , if he did same thing like you did it mean he is a top guy for S.A. and enegery advantage position ... it mean you can not made anymistake , but if you see him point his nose direct to you wow .. I can say 70% he is noob because when both getting close enought to comfirm ID. ( less then 1km ) you now stay on advatage (enegery)position so if you confirm that he is your opponent then your next move will easy for you.


S~

FlatSpinMan
04-16-2005, 04:19 AM
I think we kind of missed the point of the post. Regardless of how you wish to name it the advice was good. Thanks Jumoschwanz. (BTW does "Schwanz" mean what I think it means?)

Monson74
04-16-2005, 05:49 AM
What I find most difficult right now is spotting Spits below the horizon. To me they seem to become invisible when I try to track them from above or maybe I need glasses. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Jumoschwanz
04-16-2005, 01:14 PM
That is a good point karost. If you are going to go hunting at high altitude, you should take the plane up to just below 7000 meters. this way you are high as you can go without leaving a vapor trail. If you are not up to altitude yet and spot a dot at the same or higher altitude, then you want to fly parallel to the dots course while climbing to a superior altitude. This way if it is a friend or foe, you will be ready for it. If the dot spots you and moves toward you at a higher or even altitude so you cannot parallel it then it is time to take evasive action or fight.

If I get into a fight I sure as heck want to start the fight with a speed or altitude advantage, especially if I am in a plane I am not used to, which is just about every plane except for the 109. So if you see a dot and you don't have an altitude advantage get higher before you investigate what the dot is.

Tracking anything from above is tough when you are on a summer map or over water and the plane is painted to blend in. I don't think there is anything to do about this. I am not a real pilot and I cannot comment on how well the sim models this aspect of flying.

I do know that in book after book written by the great WWII aces they talk about being able to spot targets against the ground being an acquired talent. When Erich Hartmann went on his first combat mission he could not see anything the flight leader was talking about, after a spell though he was spotting other aircraft before everyone else. Since our monitors are all the same distance from our faces, I do not think eyesight has as much to do with flying this sim, unless you are badly farsighted, near blind, or color blind, then you could be in trouble. I have been tested for color blindness and failed horribly, so for all I know I might be missing many things others can see on their monitors. But when you are that way from birth you know no difference and do what you have to.

And as for my moniker, Jumoschwanz. Jumo is of course a German aircraft engine, and schwanz is a local manufacturer of ice cream here in my home state. End of story. S!

Jumoschwanz

BuzzU
04-16-2005, 02:27 PM
I have no idea how to B&Z with no icons. I don't know how you guys do it. If i'm lucky enough to spot a plane below me, I have no chance to ID it.

WTE_Warg
04-16-2005, 05:56 PM
It can be a hard ask. The things that I've found useful, is first off, ensuring that all my offline flying is done without icons and if I can, use severs that don't use them. This way, I hopefully don't fall into bad/lazy habits. Also have a good look at the aircraft profiles, at different aspects or angles. Try to recognise or look for identifyable features that sets that aircraft out from another. Practice. For instance, go up in a 1941 Finland Campaign without icons a few times and after awhile you will spot the differences between an I-16 and a Buffalo at reasonable distances. Just takes time, practice and patience. Make sure you have a button on your joystick to quickly zoom the gunsight in and out. Read, be familiar with the aircraft of the period. Agree with you that its hard to keep track of a small dot below over the ocean or in a dogfight, but I've found that my Track IR is an invaluable help. Can zoom this in and out too and is good for situational awareness. If I can, keep an eye on the dot, try to ascertain what it is, the direction it's flying at and sneak up on it. You need focus on it, use a bit of discretion and patience, see what the target is up to. You don't always need to attack it straight away and don't fire till you know you will kill or damage him. Height is a good thing and suprise is the best of all. Remember that no icons cut both ways. Its harder for him to see you, so use the terrain and clouds to your advantage. Join a squadron that flies at the "full realism?" settings and has voice communications. There are plenty of good ones out there and you will have a team that will act as extra sets of eyes for you. Above all, practice, persistence and patience. Goodluck, hope I've helped a little.

SnapdLikeAMutha
04-16-2005, 06:08 PM
I think if all historical pilots were like me the floggin' war would still be going on today, because I can NOT spot enemy planes to save my life. I can be playing a campaign mission on full real, take off, follow the waypoints and NOT SEE SIGHT NOR SOUND OF ANYONE BUT MY SQUARDON MATES!!!

My eyesight is pretty bad...no wait, it is VERY bad especially as I dont have my glasses at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif And the fact that I fly around at 5000m+ probably doesn't help me spot enemies tooling along on the deck either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

missiveus
04-16-2005, 08:28 PM
I'm glad I read this thread. The advice and encouragement convinced me to try no icon, cockpit only combat flying, which I always thought beyond my skills. I've been flying sims since CFS1 and was immediately hooked on the Il-2 series, so I'm no novice. But I have relied on icons and external views for S.A. and stayed off of the cockpit only servers. Flying this way, sans icons, is a whole new world (game) that requires greater concentration and awareness. It's also much more fun. My first attempts were dismal, but after a few sorties in the 109 Emil I was able to identify friend and foe and bring down the bandits (OK, they were Chakas and P-11's...I'm just learning).

Anyway, no more icons for me...and I'm staying in the pit. Maybe soon I'll get good enough to fly in a squandron as an asset. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Thanks again for the post.

Jumoschwanz
04-16-2005, 09:46 PM
Booming and zooming with no icons is tough but here is how to do it:

Whether you spot the target against the ground, a cloud or just happen to see a furball full of targets or tracers you have to ID it as friend or foe. If you see the targets tracers then you have the targets ID already.

If not, because it is a solo dot, then the recomended method is to not dive right at the target and try and ID it and shoot it on the way down, but to make the low point of the dive before the target and while zoom climbing head straight for it. This has many benefits including being able to silohuette the target against the sky instead of the ground, Lets you make a shot easier by more often keeping the target above the nose of your craft and in view instead of making a leading shot with it under your nose. Also, if you collide with the target, you can bail because your plane is going up and slowing, instead of heading for the ground at 700+km/hr trapping you inside.

Typically one night I saw a big furball on a popular server. I dove down before the furball and picked up great speed approaching 800km/hr. Then I was still a ways away zooming UP at the furball at great speed. I hit Page Down and saw lots of aircraft but three Spits heading up and away from me stood out, one was firing and this clinched the ID. I picked out a Spit and easily caught it, hit it good so it was smoking, and headed up on out the top of the furball and climbed what turned out to be a safe altitude. ONe of the Spits wingmen took a potshot at me and hit me with one or two maching gun rounds, but he was at the top of his climb and soon stalled out below me as I was able to keep my present altitude. Shortly thereafter I got the "enemy aircraft destroyed" pop-up as the target hit the ground.

No, it doesnt work out that way every time, maybe only half the time or less. It is an art to pull off successfully, but it is it's own reward when it works and you are in the clear to "take a coffee break" and set up the next shot or go home for more fuel and ammo.

Of course if you spot a target below you on a summer map, dive on it and shoot first and ID later things won't work out well as often.

IT is tough not to get excited and rush into an attack, especially after flying around for a half hour or 45 minutes looking all over he11's half acre for a target, but part of the learning process is learning to wait for things to be just right. S!

Jumoschwanz

Skinwehr
04-16-2005, 10:19 PM
"Schwanz" is a bad word in German. It is slang for , um, a male chicken. I wouldn't buy ice cream from a Schwanz.

karost
04-16-2005, 10:28 PM
A lot of friends try to play full history setup but has to suffer to try to locate dot

1. When you joint a server you have to read all details of mission
a) Where are opponent air base and your air base range?
b) Where is area of a mission target?
all this information is very import to support your plan and your strategy



if I have Ta-152 I like to fly above opponent airbase about 6-7000m but not too close to alert AAA gun and waiting and see "moving dot" below and every 1-2 minute I have to update S.A. check opponent-fly protect over his base (mostly he will fly about 5,000m over his base).

After flying above opponent air base 15 minute now I see one moving dot take off with long smoke at his air base and no one make top air cover ... well that good, but drive from 6000m to shoot a target at 1000m with angle > -60 degree is not a good idea so I have to see him and try to read his idea what he going to do? Where he will go? then check a map my base locate on S (180) so he move to 180 and start climb I have to remember his location near him like river or forest where he start coz "70%" like this situation I will lose sight ... I lose him..! that€s why I have to remember his location when he change direction , now I have to estimate where he is now ... 1 minute later he should climb at 2000 heading to 180 so I start from position which I remember ( still keep stay over 6000m and not alert AAA gun) where I was stay go to position that I make estimate ... Oh I see him again ...I smile but still have to update S.A. 360' ok seem clear but I see 3 dot in front of him... well seem he make regroup with his friends before heading to my base... in next one minute. he may climb at 3000m so I start to make attack but my position look too deep high from him then I have to make one 360 drive-turn to extend vertical angle ...oh no€¦. I lose him again...! but I remember the river in front of him so he should over there I popup a map to check that river position to setup my escape plan after attack ...ok this river is 50km at 350 from my air base,..hmmm€¦ not bad, so I setup manual pitch to 5% ( for air break ) then turn back to auto pitch and setup trim down for drive ( can not remember how many click coz I map to joystick program ) the start 50 degree drive .... my speed reach from 400..500..600..700..my plane start buffer swing at 750 I turn manual pitch and open radiator my speed reach at 830km/h so I idle power to 0% . and I see him again about 1-2km I pull up from drive but still above him little and closer and closer but cloud ... cloud cover him... no no no my speed is 700km/h and lose him again while get closing€¦! so turn to auto pitch and set power at 70% and flying pass in the cloud set up trim to normal when I came out of a cloud I see him at 11 clock about 500m €¦.Yesss, I roll left drive below him my speed drop to 650 and I see his 3 friends in front of him about 1 km , I set up view to normal gun sigh, I saw him bigger and bigger at 200m that was a P-51 he still don't know what will happen to him I keep stay below him little at speed 600km/h until at 150m I soft-pull up snapshot shoot him all gun... I see big black smoke hit him...that was very fast I look back roll left to see him€¦ he still have one pice but roll left fly like a sleeping bird...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I can not turn back to track him coz now I have to focus on his three friend in front of me seem he/they alert from my attack ,the leader make turn left first and his two friends turn follow .... that would be TS radio from the one I shoot him ... I use my current energy climb 10 degree up and set max power when we get close I see them at 11 o'clock 2xP-51 and 1xP-39 , I smile by keep flying direct line at speed 500km/h heading to my base and let them made turn complete 360 loss a lot of energy behind me .... no way he can catch me ... and no way I will turn to play with them coz no any friends near me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

that is a history simulation fun.... but not easy€¦. like fishing game.

S~

missiveus
04-17-2005, 02:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Schwanz" is a bad word in German. It is slang for , um, a male chicken. I wouldn't buy ice cream from a Schwanz. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Schwanz auf Deutsch translates as tail, but in idiomatic phrases it means many things, eg. "kein Schwanz"=not a living soul. Maybe our German members can post some colorful schwanzisms.

In Yiddish, Schwanz is indeed slang for the male sex organ.

WTE_Warg
04-17-2005, 04:53 AM
Good for you missiveus, keep at it, it all adds to you getting the most out of IL2 FB PF. Don't let experience levels put you off from joining a unit. You'll find lots of goods squads out there that will welcome you with open arms, whatever skill level you are at. Furthermore, they will probably show you new stuff and put you onto other things. You will learn faster and get to use the advantages of team communications and tactics. As for booming and zooming, extend and keep the speed up. Enjoy.

Artic_Wulf
04-17-2005, 07:20 AM
Greetings all,
I build Campaigns exclusivly these days, and no longer take part Online, my reason bieng that players can choose what ever settings they like in one of my campaigns.
Building complex campaigns these days takes a tremendouse amount of work.( weeks months)

Maximum difficulty and best simulated reality has long been questioned in these forums.
Interesting to note when IL-2 first appeared Oleg was said to have worked with real pilots on creation of this sim.
Their consesus at that time was padlock assisted view was the best simulated reality setting, mainly because we cannot turn our heads inside the cockpit naturally as we would in real life ( we have to use knobs and switches in Maximum difficulty settings instead)

So there is a very big difference between best simulated reality and Maximum difficulty.

Personaly I think Virtual reality helmets can only truly create maximum simulated reality, until that time comes.
We are just using Maximum difficulty settings looking into a screen.

Virtual reality helmets however is a completly different ball game, no more knobs and switches to turn the head, that would revolutionize Air Combat Sims.
PCs are getting that light weight these days, it would not surprise me to see someone wearing one around their head, when Online gaming in Virtual reality in the not too distant future.
he! he!

S!

missiveus
04-17-2005, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Personaly I think Virtual reality helmets can only truly create maximum simulated reality, until that time comes.
We are just using Maximum difficulty settings looking into a screen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed...However, using Track IR is the next best thing, and when support for the new 6DOF is added in BoB, it will only get better. I think the zoom in/out DOF will be most useful for cockpit visibility.

NervousEnergy
04-17-2005, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Virtual reality helmets however is a completly different ball game, no more knobs and switches to turn the head, that would revolutionize Air Combat Sims. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've flown (or designed) for this sim since the original IL-2 days and have never heard of TrackIR?? I don't use knobs to look behind me... I turn my head. I consider my TIR3P to be my most important piece of sim gear, even more so than my Cougar.

I'm enjoying flying on Spits vs 109's (and even subscribed, to give thanks for it and Zekes vs Wildcats), though I don't consider any no-icon server to be 'full real'. Perhaps 22nd century active camo can make a plane disappear into the ground clutter 200 meters below you, but that certainly didn't happen in WWII. One simple technique you can use to take advantage of this phenomenon to great effect is 'sharking'. Fly along at about 10 meters off the ground (don't get too carried away scraping the earth or you'll leave a dust cloud behind you that can be seen for miles) and look for contacts in the 100-1000 meter range above you. They'll be easy to spot, and you'll be all but invisible. Manuever yourself into position where you can rapidly climb up on them, and if the ID looks good as you ascend take your shot and then dive back down. I've come home sometimes with 2-4 kills a sortie with this method. You have to be disciplined on the attack and GET BACK DOWN. Don't hang out after take your shot, as you're in the 'death zone' yourself at 1000 meters or so with no energy and you just gave away your position with your tracers. Any hunter with hight advantage can swoop in and take a shot with absolute impunity, so you HAVE to dive back down to the deck immediately.

If you practice this method and set up your patrol pattern to parallel the front lines, just on your side, you can get a lot of success out of it. I do this a lot, though I do consider it 'gaming' the system. In reality, or on servers with limited icons set to a realistic view range (500-1000 meters), this doesn't work very well as there is a far greater chance of getting bounced.