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goshikisen
11-13-2004, 08:58 AM
Hello Oleg,

Thanks for all the work you've done in Pacific Fighters and the upcoming patch.

Your letters to the community have given us information about fixes and additional aircraft but there was no mention made of any ships that will be added to PF. Will we be seeing any additional IJN, USN, or RN ships in PF in the near future? The only news I've heard or seen so far is a picture of SaQSoN's Yorktown.

Japanese battleships were probably the most distinctive vessels in the IJN Fleet. Ships like the Hiei and Yamashiro had those massive Pagoda superstructures that were unique to the Japanese Navy. The Yamato and Musashi... the ultimate test of a USN torpedo or dive bomber.

Any news on additional ships?

Again... thanks for all the hard work.

Regards, Goshikisen

goshikisen
11-14-2004, 09:32 AM
I'll bump my own subject...

Anybody else have info on possible ship additions to PF?

Below is a picture (from the combined fleet website) of some model kit box art. The ship is the Yamashiro. Very distinctive profile to Japanese battleships... you couldn't mistake them for any other ship.

Regards, Goshikisen

http://www.combinedfleet.com/yamash01.jpg

GonzoX
11-14-2004, 12:47 PM
Ki100 and Betty for sure,
maybe the Brewster and
maybe Gib's Demon.

That's the rumor AFAIK. I could be wrong though.

Oh you mean Sea Vesels? Ooops.

toutin
11-14-2004, 04:37 PM
bump for goshikisen
More destroyers, battleships and carriers would be really nice.
I'd specially like to see some big steel like the Yamato class or Iowa.

A.K.Davis
11-14-2004, 04:41 PM
Yorktown Class CV for sure.

I believe the Battleship Arizona is coming as well.

I'm really hoping for coastal shipping other than the **** trawler with fish in it.

"Destroy the fish! It is the Japanese Achilles' Heel!"

avimimus
11-14-2004, 05:23 PM
I hope someday to see really small boats on the Volga. It would add a lot.

goshikisen
11-16-2004, 09:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Yorktown Class CV for sure.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's an interesting image... Lexington, Yorktown and Essex class carriers... and a CVL, all in the same shot. Pretty rare occurance. Pretty amazing that PF will have all of these classes covered in the near future. Now if we could just work on those USN and IJN battleships and cruisers.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g700000/g701512.jpg

Photo courtesy of the US Navy Historical Center... a fine resource, you should set aside an hour or 2 and tour the site.

sapre
11-16-2004, 11:33 PM
I read Arizona and Kongo is going to be added.

MR.Reah
11-18-2004, 03:43 AM
Not really a request but just a bit of information for thought and maybe further research :

-The IJN submarine forces-

The Japanese 'I' class submarines- larger than thier Allied counter parts.......

By Dec. '41 a total of 64 'I' class subs were ready for action.......

- subs such as the I-47.......could be equiped with the type '93' / 'Long Lance'* torpedo- 24" in diameter, 30 feet in length and 6,000 pounds!

In Feb. '42 at the battle of the Java Sea the 'Long Lances' were used in action for the first time..... result: a shattering success against a combined force of US,Brittish, Dutch and Austrailian warships.

However, as the big 'carrier' subs and ships were put out of action- and emphesis placed more on aircraft/dive bombing- they gathered dust in the Imperial Navy's shipyards....


*-'Long Lance' a giant,long range torpedo with a 1,000 pound warhead.....later to be modified into what was called the 'Kaiten' type- which had a ONE MAN CREW inside to steer it on a one way suicide trip to the target!)

Also there was a midget type submarine with a two man crew........

.....after launch and setting a course for the target,the crew were supposed to somehow get out at the last moment and be recovered by the 'mother' sub....which proved to be a rather dubious proposition at the least...

These type were first used in the Pearl Harbor attack....

Another drawback was that the 'mother' sub had to surface to allow the crew to board it and get the things off deck; which left both vulnerable to attack- and ruined the 'surprise' aspect of the procedure......

P.S.
I got this info from a little book called 'Suicide Weapon' written by A.J. Barker, Ballentine's Illustrated History of the Violent Century: Weapons Book # 22

goshikisen
11-20-2004, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toutin:
More destroyers, battleships and carriers would be really nice.
I'd specially like to see some big steel like the Yamato class or Iowa. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bump in anticipation of the upcoming add on.

http://w2322.nsk.ne.jp/qm.masaki/images/maya4.jpg

1944 incarnation of an IJN Takao class Heavy Cruiser. I believe it's Maya... one of the 4 sisters in this class.

Do a google search on "ai marking" and see some of the most detailed 3D WWII IJN ship models you're ever going to see.

I'll declare myself an official IJN BB, CA & CL whiner.

Regards, Goshikisen

goshikisen
11-20-2004, 11:13 AM
Look at these IJN Battleships... do they not make you USN divebomber pilots angry, excited, salivate?

These ships almost bordered on bizarre... looked entirely top heavy.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h90000/h90773.jpg

Courtesy of the US Navy Historical Site - Photographic Section.

Regards, Goshikisen

p.s. I think the IJN has set water = 3 in perfect mode for this photograph. They had some pretty good video cards it seems.

toutin
11-20-2004, 11:16 AM
Still no official words on the topic?
bump
ships ships ship!

uhoh7
11-20-2004, 11:35 AM
all those ships are wonderfull, but I think what we need even more are cargo variants with damage models which respond in some way to heavy strafing.

all the best,

uhoh7

Tater-SW-
11-20-2004, 11:45 AM
Luggers and barges and sea trucks, oh my!

Heheh, we have the seat truck, now we need a lugger. A Fox Tare would be cool too.

We need a IJN CA, IJN BB, and USN BB first. A RN DD would be nice as well, but at least they could reflag Ward (a Wilkes Class) with a Union Jack as ~80 were sent to the RN under lend lease.

Also, they should do a generic USN Casablanca CVE, and Essex Class. It was silly to do a generic Lexington Class since there were only 2 ships, and they did both, lol. They should also port in the Elco PT from AEP in USN livery, and unflagged versions of the Russian Trawler.

tater

goshikisen
11-20-2004, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:

We need a IJN CA, IJN BB, and USN BB first. A RN DD would be nice as well, but at least they could reflag Ward (a Wilkes Class) with a Union Jack as ~80 were sent to the RN under lend lease.

tater <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

On the topic of ships... I haven't spent enough time with the FMB to know. Can ships be made to zig zag or evade attack with "S" manuevers. A Japanese destroyer curving back and forth would complement those new splashes quite nicely... and present a greater challenge to dive bombers.

toutin
11-20-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toutin:
More destroyers, battleships and carriers would be really nice.
I'd specially like to see some big steel like the Yamato class or Iowa. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bump in anticipation of the upcoming add on.

http://w2322.nsk.ne.jp/qm.masaki/images/maya4.jpg

1944 incarnation of an IJN Takao class Heavy Cruiser. I believe it's Maya... one of the 4 sisters in this class.

Do a google search on "ai marking" and see some of the most detailed 3D WWII IJN ship models you're ever going to see.

I'll declare myself an official IJN BB, CA & CL whiner.

Regards, Goshikisen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That boat looks really nice! hmm just imagine the little bird being catapulted from it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
bump for aggressive boat maneuvers as well.

MBot
11-20-2004, 02:34 PM
Bump for IJN heavy CA, BB, USN BB and lots of small stuff to strafe and skip.


Btw, that render is very nice. Japanese heavy cruisers are the coolest looking ships there are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

goshikisen
11-20-2004, 07:27 PM
Imagine running into this AA? I wonder how framerates will be affected.

http://w2322.nsk.ne.jp/qm.masaki/images/HP3.jpg

Yamato... from the ai marking site.

Tater-SW-
11-20-2004, 11:46 PM
You'd be far better off facing Yamato than running into a US BB of the same late war date. They'd have more guns, and radar fused shells in the 5/38s which were extremely effective. Actually, you might be better off facing Yamato than a USN AAA cruiser.

tater

goshikisen
11-21-2004, 01:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
You'd be far better off facing Yamato than running into a US BB of the same late war date. They'd have more guns, and radar fused shells in the 5/38s which were extremely effective. Actually, you might be better off facing Yamato than a USN AAA cruiser.

tater <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm an equal opportunity whiner. Let's get the Iowa and her sisters in the game as well and throw in the South Dakota for good measure. Then we can put this AA to use.

jimmie_T
11-21-2004, 01:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Imagine running into this AA? I wonder how framerates will be affected.

http://w2322.nsk.ne.jp/qm.masaki/images/HP3.jpg

Yamato... from the ai marking site. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember the modeler wrote the data (not 3Dmax) for this is 20MB and takes 1 hour to render on his machine... Sad thing is, after this work has been published, he took off a lot of "in-development" pictures.

ai marking site (http://w2322.nsk.ne.jp/qm.masaki/)

goshikisen
11-21-2004, 01:35 AM
Forgot to leave a photograph.

This picture of Musashi has always impressed me. I haven't seen another picture that conveys the scale of these battleships in quite the same way. I have visited 2 Iowa class BBs and don't recall the massive expanse of deck square footage that you see in this photo. They must have been something to see when they were still sitting on top of the ocean.

Somewhat unfortunate that there are no known surviving photographs of those 18 inch guns being fired.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Battleships/1941_Yamato_class/Musashi_05.jpg

This photo comes courtesy of http://www.warship.get.net.pl but I have seen it in the Naval Institute Press book on Axis Battleships.

Hans_Philipp
11-21-2004, 04:13 AM
Bump for new ships and agressive ship maneuvers!

JRJacobs
11-21-2004, 09:51 AM
hate me if you must but how about a couple of fleet tankers? there was one at pearl harbor, the neosho, and it would make a spectacular mission to hit one of these baby's and have it set to explode as if you set off all the aviation fuel at once.

goshikisen
11-21-2004, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans_Philipp:
Bump for new ships and agressive ship maneuvers! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Supposedly the Yamato class battleships were quite maneuverable. They'd certainly have to be considering the pounding they received from Helldivers, Avengers and whatnot.

If you take a look at the photo below (US Navy Historical Site) you'll see that there at least 7 ships and not a single one is following a straight path.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g270000/g272550.jpg

For me, that has always been a shortcoming of the IL2 series... the fact that targets almost always travel in a straight line... and roads always have angled turns and no curves or meandering paths. This has followed through into PF... ships travelling in a straight line when they are being attacked. I wonder if there is any way to add a bit of random natural movement to ships in terms of evasive action?

http://w2322.nsk.ne.jp/qm.masaki/images/dx-y2.jpg

ai marking site.

Tater-SW-
11-21-2004, 04:33 PM
Oilers would be super cool to add. Maybe a PTO skin on the tanker now (gray all over). Then change the DM so that it makes LOADS of smoke when hit with any kind of bomb. THAT would be neat. The old ship list showed 2 Marus as well, one was around 6000 tons...

tater

laca25
11-21-2004, 05:39 PM
Bump!
Battleships would be cool addition! USS Alabama, USS North Carolina, and of course all the previously mentioned Japanese ones.
Best regards.

Nimits
11-21-2004, 06:23 PM
We need to flesh out the US and IJ CVs first (Yorktown class, Soryu, Shoho, etc.), then at least add one or two BB, CA, and CL class for USN, IJN, and RN.

MBot
11-21-2004, 06:33 PM
I like the fleet oiler idea. Would be a nice target, especially with the right DM.

What I also tought of, different versions of the same freighters featuring different cargos ( speak damage models ). One could include aviation fuel, so you can set the ship on fire. Another one could be ammunition, so the ship could surprisingly blow up when beeing strafed. This way you never know what happens if you attack a ship.

The "static" damage models of the ships some sort take away something of the thrill when attacking them. After some time you learn, ship X takes 500lb bombs to sink, ship Y 1000lb and ship Z can't be harmed with starfing so don't even try.

Tater-SW-
11-21-2004, 09:23 PM
Those are great ideas, mbot, they don;t even require new models, just a tweaked DM. Hit the ammo ship X amount, or in a certain spot and it makes a boom like a 2000-5000 lb bomb, and the model disappears.

The avgas could just one of the big fireballs, then smoke everywhere possible. The oiler would just somoke and smoke.

BTW, they could do the same variation for the sea truck (trawler) as well. 6 new ships with zero new models.

tater

goshikisen
11-21-2004, 10:12 PM
Tanker... would this be an Atlantic or Pacific Theatre scheme?

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/img/AO/AO-35_Housatonic-Ranger.gif

goshikisen
11-22-2004, 04:07 PM
Today's artwork... Heavy Cruiser IJN Tone. 4 turrets at the front and a veritable squadron of seaplanes on the back. Pretty unique.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1938_Tone_class/Tone_art_01.jpg

MBot
11-22-2004, 06:11 PM
IJN cruisers just kick a** http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

goshikisen
11-23-2004, 02:27 PM
How about a photo of a sinking Japanese cruiser.

This is IJN Kashii sinking off the coast of French Indochina in Jan. 1945.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CL_1940_Katori_class/Kashii_02.jpg

Courtesy of www.warship.get.net.pl (http://www.warship.get.net.pl)

This site has some of the best photographs of Japanese IJN ships that I've seen.

Regards, Goshikisen

NegativeGee
11-23-2004, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GonzoX:
maybe Gib's Demon.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Demon as in Ki-44 Shoki?

Tell us more GonzoX http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

goshikisen
11-23-2004, 03:20 PM
NegativeGee,

I think GonzoX is refering to a Curtiss-Wright CW-21B Demon. It'd be great if it was a Shoki.

Here's a brief description of the CW-21B from davewarbirds.com

"The CW-21 Demon was a lightweight fighter based on the CW-19R general-purpose monoplane. It was intended primarily for export, with 32 being ordered by China in 1939, and 24 improved versions being ordered by the Netherlands East Indies in 1940. Being inadequately armed and with no worthwhile protection for the pilot, the Demons were fair game for the Japanese fighters they opposed. Three of the improved Demons (the CW-21B) were sent to the American Volunteer Group in China (the "Flying Tigers"), but all three were lost on the ferry flight from Rangoon to Kunming, when the entire group crashed into a mountain during bad weather."

goshikisen
11-23-2004, 10:33 PM
Time for some more IJN Cruiser whining...

Here's a jpeg of a Robert Taylor print I own.. it's an FM2 Pete, some Zekes, and the heavy cruiser Kumano. Nicely arranged painting.

http://www.leisuregalleries.com/dawnoplg.jpg

Going through www.warship.get.net.pl (http://www.warship.get.net.pl) the other day I saw an interesting photo that was obviously the inspiration for the print. Kumano in the distance and the Pete.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1935_Mogami_class/Kumano_03.jpg

Who's up for bombing some Cruisers? Show your support!

MBot
11-24-2004, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Who's up for bombing some Cruisers? Show your support! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are so cruel ! Bombing this beauties is a crime. Lets just agree to watch them ploughing trough the shader 3.0 water http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NegativeGee
11-24-2004, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
NegativeGee,

I think GonzoX is refering to a Curtiss-Wright CW-21B Demon. It'd be great if it was a Shoki.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, that figures http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

(NG quietly goes back to hoping for a Ki-44)

chris455
11-24-2004, 05:09 PM
NG, what would you do with a Shoki if we had one in the game my friend? Fly it or shoot it down?

kfurni
11-25-2004, 01:25 AM
Hi All,

I know this talk is all about Battleships etc but these would be nice all the same. Just for extra targets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID43/1259.html

kfurni

goshikisen
11-25-2004, 06:34 PM
Another interesting IJN Photograph. Here is the only photograph I know of that shows all 4 of the Takao class cruisers in the same place at the same time. Don't ask me which sister is which but the 4 closest ships are Takao, Atago, Chokai, and Maya.

The Takao class could be argued to be the best heavy cruisers the IJN had but I think there's little doubt that they had the best lines of any cruiser during WWII (although I like the Prinz Eugen as well if we're going to include the KM).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/goshikisen/takao.jpg

goshikisen
11-30-2004, 08:01 AM
I've neglected this thread for too many days now. Anyone up for some cruiser whining?

How about some RN cruisers? The most obvious, in terms of PF, would be HMS Repulse. Obvious for her strong association with the Pacific Theatre (even though she only lasted days after WW2 started and had a long history before that time) and also because her Force "Z" partner, the PoW, is already in PF.

A somewhat appropriate image... HMS Repulse off the Coast of Oahu in 1924.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h57000/h57164.jpg

Photo courtesy of the US Navy Historical site.

Regards, Goshikisen

chris455
11-30-2004, 08:17 AM
The Maya class (Atago?) had very nice lines, I also like the British "Kent" class, very classy looking ships.
We could do with more ships of all kinds in PF.

goshikisen
11-30-2004, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
We could do with more ships of all kinds in PF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed... ships of any kind would be great. I especially would like to see IJN cruisers like this one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IJN Furutaka at anchor off Shinagawa, Japan. Photo courtesy of US Navy Historical Site

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h75000/h75481.jpg

goshikisen
11-30-2004, 11:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
I also like the British "Kent" class, very classy looking ships.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The "Kent" class included HMAS Canberra, probably Australia's most famous vessel of WW2. A model of the Kent class could fill out Royal Navy and Royal Australian Navy representation in PF. If we threw in a Tribal class destroyer as well...

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h86000/h86171k.jpg

goshikisen
12-03-2004, 08:48 AM
Ian Boys has just announced a Kurland map for the merged version of PF. If we have Kurland than the need for a Kriegsmarine Cruiser goes up substantially... a Cruiser such as DKM Prinz Eugen?

http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/PG/paint03a.jpg

unseen84
12-03-2004, 01:23 PM
I'm always up for some shipwhining. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've always liked the look of IJN battleships and cruisers, and I hope they put as many of them in as possible. The IJN had a pretty wide variety of carriers, and it'll be tough to represent all of them. The ones I'd like to see most are Soryu and Hiryu. Maybe farther down the line, they can do Junyo, Taiho, or even Unryu. I hope we can see either Shoho or Ryujo at some point as well.

More KM ships like Prinz Eugen or Scharnhorst would be cool too.

At any rate, there can never be too many ships, IMO.

Vigilanty
12-03-2004, 05:02 PM
We really could use some Italian ships, too - that and some Swordfish and we're 3/4 of the way to Matapan. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MBot
12-06-2004, 02:39 PM
What happened to this one ? One of the first dev updates on PF.

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/230404/Liberty_Ship_01.jpg

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/230404/Liberty_Ship_03.jpg


Judging by the look, perhaps it didn't pass quality controll.

A.K.Davis
12-06-2004, 03:42 PM
It's a Liberty Ship. Luthier had me write a description for the object viewer, so I was expecting it as well. Here it is, in memorium. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Liberty Ship (EC2-S-C1)

Speed: 11 knots
Armament: various, including 4-in and 3-in guns, 20mm and 37mm cannon, as well as .30 cal and .50 cal MGs.
Displacement:
Standard: 7200 tons
Full: 14,300 tons
Engines: triple-expansion steam engine producing 2,500 HP (1.86 MW)
Complement: 81 officers and men

In 1941, President Roosevelt initiated an ambitious program to greatly expand the merchant marine fleet in order to sustain the Allied war effort overseas. The program began with a Lend-Lease order of 60 British-designed "Ocean" class ships built in North America. Using this basic design, the U.S. Maritime Commission made alterations to decrease cost and greatly increase productivity.

The ships were built using the methods of factory mass-production, with pre-fabricated sections of the vessel joined together in an "assembly line" process involving nearly 114 miles (184 km) of welded joints. This new class was designated EC2-S-C1, and initially referred to simply as "emergency ships," but when the SS Patrick Henry, the first ship of the class, was launched in 1941, President Roosevelt gave a speech during which he quoted the famous namesake of the ship: "Give me Liberty...or give me death." He told America that these new ships, the Liberty Fleet, would bring freedom to Europe. The name Liberty Ship stuck.

By 1943, production time had fallen to less than one month per ship. One ship, the SS Robert E. Peary, was built in less than 5 days. In all, 2,710 Liberty Ships were produced and commissioned, often heading straight from the shipyard to an overseas convoy. The program remains one of the greatest feats of the industrial age.

Despite criticisms of the structural integrity of the ships due to the massive amount of rapid welding used in their production and several tragic structural failures at sea, the Liberty Ships were nonetheless essential in delivering men, machines and supplies to all corners of the world during WWII, from the South Pacific to the Arctic Ocean.

Liberty Ship variants:
-Z-EC2-S-C2: Tank Carriers
-Z-EC2-S-C5: Boxed Aircraft Transports
-EC2-S-AW1: Colliers
-Z-ET1-S-C3: Tankers
-some standard Liberty Ships converted to hospital and troop ships <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

goshikisen
12-06-2004, 07:42 PM
Another RN (in this case RCN) vessel.

Tribal class destroyer HMCS Haida.

http://hmcshaida.ca/g63photo.jpg

Taken from the HMCS Haida website. At least one class of RN destroyer would be quite useful in PF.

Regards, Goshikisen

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-08-2004, 02:00 AM
Scharnhorst/Gneisenau, Swordfish, Prinz Eugen, British Cruiser and Destroyers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tater-SW-
12-08-2004, 07:29 AM
We need more ships for the blue-water IJN, not the brown water KM.

<G,D,R>

tater

JtD
12-08-2004, 07:59 AM
I'd just like to give this the bump it deserves.

Which ships will be added in the patch?

For me the most important question regarding the patch, everything else is secondary.

My personal wish list:
Late War Akitsuki,
At least two Japanese crusiers, one early one late war,
(Kongo Class) Japanese battleship both early and late
coastal shipping including PT boats.

Tater-SW-
12-08-2004, 08:09 AM
I'd hope we can assume the Yorktown which is already done and the Liberty ship, but yeah, I'd like to see more targets for the US guys, not just more targets for the IJ guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tater

JonHal
12-08-2004, 08:32 AM
My prference for ships is as follows

Yorktown class
Hiryu/Soryu
Arizona
Yamato

Of course I'd like to see more, especially more battleships and cruisers. I'd like the Yorktown class and Hiryu, Soryu to be able to model accurate Midway and Coral Sea missions. We Need the Yorktown class to also model Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz. Several people have mentioned that the Yorktown will be included but I've never seen an official comment on the Yorktowns.

Arizona so we can remove those darn brit battleships from Pearl Harbor. And the Yamato of course because, well, who doesn't love the Yamato? Biggest target, err battleship, ever!

Regards

goshikisen
12-08-2004, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
We need more ships for the blue-water IJN, not the brown water KM.

<G,D,R>

tater <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well called... and how better to underline the point than show a photo of 2 IJN Heavy Cruisers circa 1941. The cruiser Aoba as seen from the cruiser Kako in late 1941.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1926_Furutaka_class/Kako_23.jpg

Tater-SW-
12-08-2004, 09:08 AM
Nice!

Might as well just model the KM as static objects to be bombed in port, that's about all they are good for. The IJN had crappy logistical support, and they could sail and fight there fleet at sea. The KM, lol. How many round trips did KM capitol ships make? How many blue-ocean refuelings did their capitol ships have to do to stay at sea for long cruises? Didn't think so.

Best time spent on the KM would be more coastal vessels that actually sailed more than once and fought. Some DDs as the biggest thing to bother with making.

tater

JtD
12-08-2004, 10:18 AM
Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and the pocket Battleships did see quite some action.

I personally like to see the IJN ships 1st because they look best, and 2nd (a little more important) to set up decent taskforces. Not nice to build missions without the heavy units the IJN fighters were trying to protect.
(using the butt ugly KGV's for that isn't much better, imho ;-)

Tater-SW-
12-08-2004, 10:29 AM
Yeah, looks like they made 8 sories during the war or so. About a couple weeks in the slot for the IJN ;-)

I don't have a problem with seeing those, any new ships are cool, but ships are less of a focus for the ETO than the PTO. The priority should be numbers built of a type, and the amount of action vs air they saw. Yamato is low on my list for IJN BBs, actually, as are the Iowas. SoDak would make more sense for a more modern USN BB.

tater

goshikisen
12-08-2004, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
The priority should be numbers built of a type, and the amount of action vs air they saw. Yamato is low on my list for IJN BBs, actually, as are the Iowas. SoDak would make more sense for a more modern USN BB.

tater <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen many photos of attacks and the aftermath of attacks on Japanese Cruisers. I think this particular photo is the most famous of them all... IJN Mikuma at the battle of Midway. This ship has been absolutely ruined... and I can't begin to think what it was like for the guys you see crowded at her stern.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1935_Mogami_class/g414422.jpg

You find any collection of IJN ship photos and half of them are usually courtesy of USN aerial cameras. You want standard targets for USN torpedo and dive bombers... you can't get any better than an IJN Cruiser.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CL_1942_Agano_class/Yahagi_02.jpg

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1938_Tone_class/G89107.jpg

Photos courtesy of Warship.net in Poland and the US Navy Historical Collection

Loki-PF
12-08-2004, 11:29 AM
Wow that shot of the Mikuma is Awe inspiring! Amazing what thos .50 Cals can do! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tater-SW-
12-08-2004, 12:24 PM
CAs, DDs, SCs (subchasers), and various smaller craft should be the priority as they were frequent recipients of air attack.

tater

Zarathael
12-08-2004, 08:33 PM
My wish list for ships. Based on a compromise between adding the really big, hairy cool vessels that were very uncommon, and the ships that actually saw action and were produced in greater numbers. Also, the focus of the game is flight simulation, with things that live at 0 AGL being just stuff to shoot at, and I understand this. But seeing as how the Pacific campaign was a lot more naval oriented than the European/Russian theatre, perhaps a bit more attention should be given to the ships. Look at how many tanks and ground vehicles we have.

US South Dakota and or North Carolina BB
US Yorktown Class Carrier

IJN Ise Class, or Nagato. Yamato would be great, but I concede that the aforementioned types are more justified. But if we could have them all....

IJN Cruisers Definitely

Graf Zeppelin? Just kidding.

A later Japanese carrier would be good, Taiho maybe. A light IJN Carrier is a must.

More mundane types, tankers transports. A liner/troop transport would be really nice.

Program wish list;

Warships stop firing at parachutes w/ main batteries. I can justify the aa gunners wanting to get in a little sport, but the economics of using 14 in. shells for this is a bit expensive.

a view function that cycles between ships&land vehicles. Flanker had it, and it was good.

lifeboats to strafe... Just kidding again. Although if we want to simulate history...

Unlock ship skins, or at least allow the use of user created skins in some fashion.

different skinned variants of the essex class, to represent the different ships.

Oh well enough of that. I realize that most if not all of that will be impossible at this stage, but if we can get some of it, I'll be happy.

Zarathael
12-08-2004, 08:46 PM
Another nasty thing to consider when facing late war American AA is the fact that many of the AA weapons didn't just have radar fused shells, the guns themselves were radar aimed. IJN barely had any Idea that such a thing even existed. When our aircraft attacked Yamato, they were equipped with Window, the primitive form of chaff that we developed to confuse German AA radar. The japanese had no Idea why we kept dumping Aluminum foil out of our aircraft....

goshikisen
12-08-2004, 10:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zarathael:

IJN Ise Class, or Nagato. Yamato would be great, but I concede that the aforementioned types are more justified. But if we could have them all... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd have to agree with you on the BB's. Yamashiro, Hiei, Fuso, Nagato... these and others in their various classes were the real battlewagons of the IJN. Yamato and Musashi never really got the chance to flex their muscle.

Randall Wilson painted an interesting picture of Nagato... pagoda superstructure in all it's majesty. Courtesy of navart.com

http://www.navart.com.au/images/nagatoshlge.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oh well enough of that. I realize that most if not all of that will be impossible at this stage, but if we can get some of it, I'll be happy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a preliminary list of aircraft and ships that was released just before PF was released. We got 95% of the aircraft and about 60% of the listed ships when the sim was put on the market... I'd like to think that the patch will bring that figure up from 60% to 95%. I know Yorktown is a for sure... and that prelim list had a good number of IJN ships not currently available.

I think the idea of skinning ships is great... they're the only objects, other than aircraft, that I think could really benefit from skinning. The CV's and BB's of the US Navy at the very least could be made historically accurate if we could put some camouflage on them for some scenarios.

Regards, Goshikisen.

goshikisen
12-09-2004, 12:55 PM
Another Randall Wilson piece from the same site. IJN Fuso. Hard to believe the Nagato could be outdone in it's top heavy pagoda... but Fuso does it.

http://www.navart.com.au/images/fushoshlge.gif

unseen84
12-09-2004, 07:34 PM
from http://www.warship.get.net.pl/
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/Taiho.jpg

Taiho would be really cool to see. She only participated in one battle, but she might have been the most advanced carrier design the IJN had.

More variety of destroyers on both sides would be great as well.

goshikisen
12-09-2004, 08:37 PM
Nice artwork unseen...

From the same site another painting of cruisers Furutaka and Aoba.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1927_Aoba_class/Aoba_art_01s.jpg

Tater-SW-
12-09-2004, 08:51 PM
Aside from an IJN CA, and BBs for IJN and USN, I'd rather see some smaller ships, subchasers, etc. Primarily as they make better targets.

tater

goshikisen
12-09-2004, 09:02 PM
Carriers do seem adequately represented (and I use the word adequate in the "we can always use more" sense of it). Cruisers... you know my thoughts on that subject. BBs... of course. Tater does bring up a good point... we need smaller traffic. It'd be nice to have escort vessels, tugs, PT Boats, transports. It would be interesting to be part of a strike mission on a harbor and see smaller traffic moving about as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... in Pacific Fighters the second most important object in the sim is ships and, at the moment, I'd gladly give up the Betty for more waterborne targets.

Regards, Goshikisen

p.s. I see so many folks belly aching about this 6DOF stuff when proper evasive maneuvers by ships would do so much more to increase the realism in my opinion.

Tater-SW-
12-09-2004, 09:14 PM
I agree completely. The simplest of AI for ships would change everything. You wouldn't need the AAA to be as punishing from a ROF standpoint to not have the whole navy sunk in 1 pass as well.

tater

Tater-SW-
12-09-2004, 09:15 PM
Oh, what do y'all make of this:

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/MTB.jpg

The USN seemed to think in 1945 that the IJN had some boats based upon an Italian MAS---already modelled...

tater

goshikisen
12-10-2004, 08:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Oh, what do y'all make of this:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tater, is that a photograph of a japanese boat or the italian vessel that it was modelled after?

Apparently we're getting the Ohka... I wonder if Shinyo and Kaiten "Special Attack" vessels would also be PF worthy? They'd be small and hard to hit. I know the mini subs didn't meet with much success but there were a few successful Shinyo attacks if I recall correctly.

Earlier mention of So Dak BB's. They truly are the representative Battleship of the USN during WW2. I'll have to make a trip out to Battleship Cove to see "Big Mamie". I was ignorant of her action at Casablanca against Jean Bart and numerous other French vessels. South Dakota was also a pivotal vessel at Guadalcanal. All four of the class played a big role in the Pacific but they sat in the shadow of the 4 Iowa sisters.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k00001/k00497.jpg

USS Alabama - US Navy Historical Site

Regards, Goshikisen

Tater-SW-
12-10-2004, 10:32 AM
I don't know about the picture. If true it offers a quick and dirty IJN MTB for us. Frankly, even if remotely close I wouldn't mind it as a target.

tater

unseen84
12-10-2004, 10:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Tater, is that a photograph of a japanese boat or the italian vessel that it was modelled after?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't that look like an IJN destroyer in the background?

Like you guys have been saying, more varieties of smaller targets would be great. More destroyers, destroyer escorts, LSTs, anything.

Tater-SW-
12-10-2004, 11:15 AM
I cannot tell. The flag doesn't look italian to me...

Also, I can't find this pic in any sites about MAS boats...

tater

goshikisen
12-10-2004, 11:29 AM
The typeface used for the hull number looks very similar to those I've seen on conning towers of IJN submarines... and the camoflauge pattern looks like similar to something you'd see on the deck of some IJN Carriers.

I suspect it's Japanese.

Tater-SW-
12-10-2004, 01:39 PM
That's my thought as well.

tater

goshikisen
12-11-2004, 09:02 AM
I had mentioned harbor traffic earlier in this thread... here is an interesting photo that shows a variety of Japanese ships being attacked at Rabaul.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h95000/h95558.jpg

This photo brings up another aspect of PF that I think could use some tweaking. Notice the different colours and densities of smoke in this image. As it is we get a single column of black smoke that goes straight up in the air when a plane crashes or a target is hit.

Tater-SW-
12-11-2004, 12:15 PM
The pre-PF info we had said that there were 2 Japanese Merchant ships coming, I think both were ~6000tons. That buring AK/AT behind the CA is about that size---bigger than the merchant we have now.

An oiler would be cool, too. Note also that thge hills drop right into Simpson Harbor in places. In PF, we'd have a few klicks of flat, un-treed land all along the water (even the "flat" bits on the left and center of this image show a pronouced slop utterly lacking in the PF maps.

tater

Luring2004
12-11-2004, 12:34 PM
Like these??
http://www.hjelmevoll.net/images/Max%20renders/scharnhorst_at_sea_02.jpg
http://www.hjelmevoll.net/images/Max%20renders/render_1.jpg

Ruy Horta
12-11-2004, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Hard to believe the Nagato could be outdone in it's top heavy pagoda... but Fuso does it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These refurbished battlewagons look like they have a top heavy bridge, but that's an illusion, the structure itself isn't structurally massive at all, often created by stacking platforms.

Ideally I'd love to see the Kongo and Fuso classes. The Kongo class I simply love and the ships saw good service. The Fuso class with their 6 turrets look great.

But I'd settle for:

BB Kongo-class
1x CA (I'd personally favor the Takao-class - with a really massive bridge)
1x CL
1x CVL

Of course if someone is mad enough - (S)BB Yamato-class!

But none of these are usefull without allied counterparts, some are already there like the CA and CVE. Would be nice the see a RAN cruiser as well.

This isn't a Naval sim, but they make for bloody nice targets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"There's something wrong with our bloody ships today!"

goshikisen
12-11-2004, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruy Horta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Hard to believe the Nagato could be outdone in it's top heavy pagoda... but Fuso does it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These refurbished battlewagons look like they have a top heavy bridge, but that's an illusion, the structure itself isn't structurally massive at all, often created by stacking platforms.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant top heavy in the hyperbole way... still pretty incredible though. They look like they've got a 10 story apartment building secured to their deck.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Ideally I'd love to see the Kongo and Fuso classes. The Kongo class I simply love and the ships saw good service. The Fuso class with their 6 turrets look great.

But I'd settle for:

BB Kongo-class
1x CA (I'd personally favor the Takao-class - with a really massive bridge)
1x CL
1x CVL
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a basic similarity in appearance between the various Japanese BB's (with the exception of Yamato). If we could get the Kongo-class in there we'd be able to make believe some of the other classes without wincing.

The same could be said about Japanese CA's. Takao has a bridge structure that is somewhat different than the others but, basically, the general profile of an IJN CA is similar from class to class. We could get away with a single class modelled and I'm with Ruy on this one... Takao is my favorite.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Of course if someone is mad enough - (S)BB Yamato-class! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's something almost mythical about Yamato and Musashi to me... they're beasts. I travelled all the way to Kure just to see the place where Yamato was built. I won't be disappointed if this class isn't part of the game but, target-wise, it'd certainly make for some interesting scenarios. I remember reading one of the prelim lists of ships for PF and seeing Shinano. I found that an odd choice for PF.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But none of these are usefull without allied counterparts, some are already there like the CA and CVE. Would be nice the see a RAN cruiser as well.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Canberra... Guadalcanal wouldn't be complete without her.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
This isn't a Naval sim, but they make for bloody nice targets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed... the best targets possible for a Pacific theatre sim. For me, PF needs proper USN and IJN fleets with the various types of ships represented. I have no problem pretending Kongo is Nagato... but I have difficulty imagining KGV as either of them. I've got my fingers crossed that this upcoming add on will address this issue to some degree.

goshikisen
12-11-2004, 10:18 PM
From the same series of photos from the Nov. 2nd 1943 raid on Simpson Harbor. Note the B-25 in the lower left hand side of the photograph.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h95000/h95560.jpg

CKY_86
12-12-2004, 05:38 AM
imo i would love to see some more ships but carriers must be no.1 priority

Tater-SW-
12-12-2004, 09:49 AM
A CVL for the IJN and the Yorktown (already done) are all that is really needed for CVs. Small ships are primary IMHO.

tater

unseen84
12-12-2004, 02:20 PM
I mostly agree with that, Tater. After Yorktown, the only other allied CV I'd really like to see is an Independence-class CVL. The IJN had a pretty wide variey of carriers, and I'd like to see more than just Akagi, Shokaku, and a CVL. But I do agree that a variety of smaller vessels are what's needed more.

MoritzJGOne
12-12-2004, 03:12 PM
What I do not know is why not duplicate ships in the same class. New wrappers and 'place holders' in the game and the Essex can be duplicated as Yorktown (II),Franklin, Hornet (II), etc.

Both the Akagi and Kaga are battlecruisers converted to CV'a per Treaty of Washington (as were Lexington and Saratoga). Is Kaga essentially, the Akagi with her bridge on the starboard side? I know that they were deliberate built different to see if port or starboard was the better side to mount the bridge.

Hiryu and Soryu (both dragon names) were sister ships. Do one, you have both.

There were a few identical IJN Cl's and the carriers made from ocean liner projects, I believe these were Tiasho class.

A Shokaku can be re-wrapped as her sister, Zuikaku.

Any word if sisterships will be made? It would definately allow the actual battles to occure.

MoritzJGOne
12-12-2004, 03:28 PM
Here is list of IJN carriers. All ships on the same line are from an identical class:
Kaga
Akagi
Ryujo
Soryu, Hiryu
Shokaku, Zuikaku
Hiyo, Junyo (originally to be ocean liners, large bridges)
Taiho
Shinano
Taiyo, Chuyo, Unyo (Cl's)
Unyru

unseen84
12-12-2004, 03:59 PM
Thats what I'm talking about Moritz, the IJN had a lot of different carriers. You even forgot to list the sisters Shoho & Zuiho. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hiryu and Soryu had their bridges on opposite sides, so the models would have to be a little different. Hiryu was also a bit bigger and heavier than Soryu, but you could still have the same model with different bridges. This is essentially what they've done with Lex and Sara, and their different AA guns. Lex has the old turrets while Sara has the new 5in guns.

Btw, thats Junyo & Hiyo in my sig.

goshikisen
12-12-2004, 07:33 PM
I've mentioned this in the past but it merits repeating... it would be great if we could skin ships. Lexington has a prewar paint scheme that I'm sure some talented person out there could swap out for a WW2 scheme. The Essex class could use a camo scheme for some scenarios.

The configurations of the ships did change throughout their careers... (ie. Lex and her guns) but I'm sure we could live with that if the colour schemes could be modified.

It'd also be interesting if we could make duplicates of ships and give each duplicate a unique paint job. Yorktown, Enterprise and Hornet are one example of many that come to mind (that's if Yorktown will be included in the add on... which I strongly suspect it will).

The 3rd party community have proven over and over again that they are an integral part of the IL2 series and a vital component of its longevity. I think these examples (skinning of ships and duplicates of ships) would help keep things interesting.

unseen84
12-12-2004, 07:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
I've mentioned this in the past but it merits repeating... it would be great if we could skin ships. Lexington has a prewar paint scheme that I'm sure some talented person out there could swap out for a WW2 scheme. The Essex class could use a camo scheme for some scenarios.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed 100%.

I also think its odd that both Shokaku & Zuikaku are shown in late war camoflauge. I don't know if Shokaku even wore that camo before she was sunk, but it would be nice to see an early war skin for her. I've also always been curious why Akagi has a sort of greenish skin in the game, while she appears grey in every painting, photo, etc. I've seen of her.

A.K.Davis
12-12-2004, 08:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoritzJGOne:
What I do not know is why not duplicate ships in the same class. New wrappers and 'place holders' in the game and the Essex can be duplicated as Yorktown (II),Franklin, Hornet (II), etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have duplicate ships in the same class. Look at the U.S. and Japanese destroyers. Most are just different skins. They may not have included more because of the space restrictions.

goshikisen
12-12-2004, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
I've also always been curious why Akagi has a sort of greenish skin in the game, while she appears grey in every painting, photo, etc. I've seen of her. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same thing with the American CA. The hull color leans towards blue-gray while the destroyers and carriers are an altogether different shade of gray. Don't know enough about actual hull colours to say if this was correct or not but it seems a little odd this blue cruiser.

unseen... the Pearl Harbor museum has a beautiful large scale model of the Akagi in a glass case. Funny that you should mention the green because I noticed, looking at this model, that there was a definite green tint to the hull color. Don't know how accurate that it is but, without a doubt, this model had to be the most impressive I'd ever seen. I'll try and post a couple shots of it in the thread.

The museum also had a great scale model of the Arizona. I toured the USS Missouri on the same day and found an equally impressive model of "Big Mo" in the officer's ward room. The model was built to depict her as she looked on the day the WW2 surrender document was signed.

unseen84
12-12-2004, 09:35 PM
If the green really is accurate, then thats cool with me. Just thought it was strange. I really hadn't noted the Indy being blue before, but now that you mention it, that is kinda strange too.

unseen84
12-12-2004, 09:43 PM
Did a little research on Indy's camo. The closest camo the real ship wore compared to whats in the game is Measure 21, which the real Indy wore from '42-mid '43. Ms 21 is an overall Navy Blue scheme, but the only difference is the real decks were supposed to be stained deck blue, not left as a natural wood color like they are in the game.

got the info from shipcamoflage.com

this is Ms 21 on USS Drayton
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/drayton.bmp

ElAurens
12-13-2004, 05:32 AM
Good find unseen.

Many many years ago I built a model of USS Alabama for my neighbor who served aboard her in WW2. This was long before I knew anything about USN naval cammo "measures". I just painted her like I saw in some photos. When I gave the model to him he was floored, but did make the comment that the decks were never natural wood color (like I painted mine). I have been aware of this ever since...lol. So when I see USN ships in game with wooden deck color I always wince a little.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-13-2004, 06:08 AM
i still vote for some KM-Ships, right now we got the Tirpitz, well this one is a bit too heavy for Coop or Dogfight-missions, isn't it ?

and well Scharnhorst and Gneisenau sunk the British Carrier Glorious, and the escorting Destroyers ACASTA and ARDENT.
http://211.155.23.140/biku/warpaint/yssf/scharnhorst-t.jpg (http://211.155.23.140/biku/warpaint/yssf/scharnhorst.jpg)

EDIT:
i missed something:
http://www.navart.com.au/images/BismarckPrEugenMD.jpg

JtD
12-13-2004, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoritzJGOne:
Both the Akagi and Kaga are battlecruisers converted to CV'a per Treaty of Washington (as were Lexington and Saratoga). Is Kaga essentially, the Akagi with her bridge on the starboard side? I know that they were deliberate built different to see if port or starboard was the better side to mount the bridge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Akagi was a battlecruiser while the Kaga was a battleship of a different layout. The sistership of the Akagi, the Amagi, was intended to be converted but was destroyed in the 1923 earthquake.

Kaga therefore was bigger, slower, shorter but slightly better armored, wider and had a better range.

goshikisen
12-13-2004, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
If the green really is accurate, then thats cool with me. Just thought it was strange. I really noted the Indy being blue before, but now that you mention it, that is kinda strange too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice work on the CA camo research... no more wincing on that one.

I was way off on my memory of a "green Akagi" at the Arizona Memorial Museum. The model is actually gray. Time has apparently clouded my memory. Wincing on PF's light green Akagi has been reinstated.

Here's a photo of the Akagi model from a site dedicated to museum ship models. It's 1/96th scale... pretty big.

http://wmunderway.8m.com/museum/pearlharbor/akagi8.JPG

Here's the URL for whole page if you'd like to see more photos of the Akagi model and the Arizona:

http://wmunderway.8m.com/museum/pearlharbor/pearlharbor.html

Regards, Goshikisen

unseen84
12-13-2004, 02:09 PM
Well, I guess we'll just have to hope that somebody gives PF's Akagi a new coat of grey paint. I'd be nice if they'd give the Indy her blue decks, but I guess what's there now is close enough, there are more important things.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Many many years ago I built a model of USS Alabama for my neighbor who served aboard her in WW2. This was long before I knew anything about USN naval cammo "measures". I just painted her like I saw in some photos. When I gave the model to him he was floored, but did make the comment that the decks were never natural wood color (like I painted mine). I have been aware of this ever since...lol. So when I see USN ships in game with wooden deck color I always wince a little. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hear ya El, I build ship models myself, and all those USN camo measures had me confused for quite a while. Thats one of the reasons I mostly build IJN ships now: no camo except for late war carriers, plus I think they just look cooler. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

goshikisen
12-13-2004, 07:56 PM
Another interesting combat photo. Haruna under aerial attack at Kure, 1945.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g490000/g490226.jpg

Take a look at the 2 small ships on the edge of the lower explosion. The detail is such that it looks like a photograph of a diorama.

Photo courtesy of US Navy Historical Site.

Sig.Hirsch
12-13-2004, 08:25 PM
Nice photo thx http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

unseen84
12-13-2004, 08:49 PM
Wow, those are some huge splashes.

Tater-SW-
12-13-2004, 11:02 PM
Look at the enclosed area lower left with small craft in it. All the water is displaced by a previous explosion, and the HUGE crater is visible. Moments later, water must have rushed back in and covered it. Amazing.

tater

goshikisen
12-14-2004, 07:50 AM
From the same series of photos. The pilot's accuracy is getting better. I wonder what type of aircraft carried out this particular attack. The caption says the USN were responsible... Helldivers?

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g490000/g490224.jpg

JtD
12-14-2004, 09:56 AM
Just to make sure everyone gets the scale right: At that time the BB Haruna was 222 Meters long.

It somehow pains me to see this beautiful ship beeing bombed to destruction.

Wasn't it already out of service since the attack in March 1945?

Anyway, it didn't sink. It went down upright in shallow water.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g350000/g351726.jpg

goshikisen
12-15-2004, 07:57 PM
A model of an IJN cruiser... Takao. Not digital in this case but paper. Hope to see the digital version of Takao in PF someday soon.

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/ijn/ca/takao250-dn/pic1.jpg

unseen84
12-16-2004, 02:23 AM
Definitely hope to see Takao in PF eventually. I built a model of her myself a coulpe months ago, a very fine looking ship.

For a USN CL, I'm pretty partial to USS Miami, since my grandfather served on her in the war.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/0408909.jpg

goshikisen
12-16-2004, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
For a USN CL, I'm pretty partial to USS Miami, since my grandfather served on her in the war.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/0408909.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did your grandfather pass on any stories about the war? My grandfather was in the Dutch army when the Germans invaded Holland. His time in action was over before it began.

USS Miami is an older sister of USS Little Rock which is just down the road from me in Buffalo. I have yet to visit her... another trip to add to my list.

Regards, Goshikisen

goshikisen
12-17-2004, 09:49 AM
An appropriate photo in light of the current PF situation (or at least the perceived situation). From the battle off Cape Engano. Zuikaku's crew salute the Ensign as she sinks on October 25th, 1944.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h73000/h73069.jpg

U.S. Naval Historical Center Photograph. (I wonder when one of their lawyers is going to contact me? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Tater-SW-
12-17-2004, 10:15 AM
US government images have no copyright protection. The only caveat is that YOU cannot claim copyright of them, you must have your own doc copyrighted with the explicit removeal of ownership of the gov sources.

tater

goshikisen
12-17-2004, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
US government images have no copyright protection. The only caveat is that YOU cannot claim copyright of them, you must have your own doc copyrighted with the explicit removeal of ownership of the gov sources.

tater <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's good to hear... now I just have to worry about Kawasaki shipyards. They might not like me showing one of their products in a bad light. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

unseen84
12-17-2004, 06:04 PM
For the second time, I go off for a couple days and all hell breaks loose. Same thing as when those people go all uppity with Oleg a month or 2 ago. I just hope we can still get the Yorktown. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

goshikisen, my grandfather is still living, and quite active I might add. He doesn't speak much about the war, but he's writing memoirs about it that will tell a lot.

And FWIW, another type of ship that would be good to see...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/0405313.jpg
USS San Diego, Atlanta Class CL

JtD
12-18-2004, 12:21 AM
Two Essex CVs, two Clevelands, three Atlantas and a couple of Fletchers make a good USN Taskforce. With their AAA set to normal RoF the will destroy any framerate opposing them in no time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

unseen84
12-18-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Two Essex CVs, two Clevelands, three Atlantas and a couple of Fletchers make a good USN Taskforce. With their AAA set to normal RoF the will destroy any framerate opposing them in no time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

really?... hmm, never thought of that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

A.K.Davis
12-18-2004, 12:14 PM
Uhoh, from Saqson at Netwings:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Quote:
---------
I knew they bought Newport News. Half my family works there.
---------
Which makes certain ships, including the USS Yorktown class impossible for this game. That is most sad for me particulary, because I put a lots of efforts in building this model. It is 100% complete, but much probably will never be released. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

goshikisen
12-18-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Uhoh, from Saqson at Netwings:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Quote:
---------
I knew they bought Newport News. Half my family works there.
---------
Which makes certain ships, including the USS Yorktown class impossible for this game. That is most sad for me particulary, because I put a lots of efforts in building this model. It is 100% complete, but much probably will never be released. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is beyond ridiculous... the Yorktown is a class of ship that was built at these yards but it doesn't mean it was designed by them. Is all work even remotely related to US equipment being discontinued? I'd love to see the whole picture here because what I can see is absolutely bizarre.

Regards, Goshikisen

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-18-2004, 03:01 PM
what about a light DKM Cruiser ?
Leipzig or K - Class ?

Artillery:
9x15cm (3 Turrets)
Flak:
8*3,7cm
8x2,0cm
Additional:
12 53,3cm Torpedo-tubes
2 Aircraft

Image of a K or Leipzig Class Light - Cruiser (http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/050.jpg)

the ship is some 170m long and 16,4m wide mass:
7950t.

Docjonel
12-18-2004, 04:47 PM
As much as I admire Oleg and his whole crew's efforts, I have to admit it bugs me to no end that there's a Pearl Harbor map, PH missions, and when you get to Battleship Row all you see are Brit BB's. Takes you out of the moment. Glad to hear there's an Arizona model on the way. Even a generic representative American BB with the characteristic tripod superstructure would be tremendously appreciated.

And goshikisen, do you live in New England? I live in southeastern Connecticut and have been to Battleship Cove, though not in a few years. Now that I've got my new digital camera I've been thinking about making a return trip when the weather gets warmer...

unseen84
12-18-2004, 04:48 PM
What about Enterprise and Hornet? Did Newport News build them too?

Is it possible to just relase the model without a name, just call it a USN CV.

Keeping Yorktown out would be a travesty.

goshikisen
12-18-2004, 06:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Docjonel:
And goshikisen, do you live in New England? I live in southeastern Connecticut and have been to Battleship Cove, though not in a few years. Now that I've got my new digital camera I've been thinking about making a return trip when the weather gets warmer... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately I'm virtually landlocked... I live on the shores of Lake Ontario. The closest WW2 vessel to me is a destroyer, HMCS Haida. She's probably the most famous vessel in the history of the RCN so a good one to be close by. Buffalo, New York has a Cruiser and a Destroyer which I haven't visited yet. I'm planning a trip to Boston in the spring and the USS Massachusetts is on the top of the "must do" list. I've seen 2 Iowas so far... was going to visit USS New Jersey but thought it'd be a bit more interesting to see another class of BB.

Oleg... Haida isn't American and she's a great example of an RN destroyer. Maybe we can have some Tribal Class in there.

Regards, Goshikisen.

laca25
12-18-2004, 07:52 PM
The USS Alabama is a nice visit as well. The ship is nicely opened up so you have a liitle bit more chance to wonder around inside the ship. Underneath turret "B" the barbette opened as well very nicely kept ship. It is sorrounded by a park full of good stuff. M60A1 a T55 from Iraq and the park has an aircraft pavilon as well which is even nicer. P51D an F4 Corsair but I don't remember which version. Plus The floatplane type they used to keep on the battleship itself. Sr71 F16 from the national guard an SBD oh yes and a submarine. Check out it's website if you ever have the chance visit it.

unseen84
12-19-2004, 12:20 AM
I dedicate this post to our friends at Northrop/Grumman

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/020528.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/020533.jpg

goshikisen
12-19-2004, 07:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
I dedicate this post to our friends at Northrop/Grumman
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about the product of this shipyard? They can't take this away, can they? Yamato fitting out at Kure.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Yamato_battleship_under_construction.jpg


I know Musashi was built at a Mitsubishi yard but Yamato... I don't know if any modern day firm could claim rights to her. Hopefully Japanese corporations don't care to walk the same path as N/G.

Regards, Goshikisen

unseen84
12-21-2004, 05:45 PM
Gotta keep this on the 1st page.

This photo has always impressed me.
Wisconsin moored outboard of the hulk of Oklahoma at Pearl Harbor. The size difference is just incredible. Oklahoma looks like a cruiser compared to Wisconsin.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/016413.jpg

In case its true that we can't get any more ships that were built at Newport News, I looked up what USN BBs were built where. Fortunately, only one modern BB was built there, the Indiana (SoDak class). That leaves the 2 North Carolinas, the other 3 SoDaks, and all 4 Iowas. A few of the Pearl Harbor BBs were built at Newport News, but not all of them. I can't remember which ones, except that the Arizona was not built there.

laca25
12-21-2004, 08:21 PM
That is a good news becouse it would be beutiful to have some original US BBs in the game.

goshikisen
12-22-2004, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
In case its true that we can't get any more ships that were built at Newport News, I looked up what USN BBs were built where. Fortunately, only one modern BB was built there, the Indiana (SoDak class). That leaves the 2 North Carolinas, the other 3 SoDaks, and all 4 Iowas. A few of the Pearl Harbor BBs were built at Newport News, but not all of them. I can't remember which ones, except that the Arizona was not built there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately 1C have been rather ambiguous about what they can and can't build in terms of US equipment. Sometimes it seems like we'll never see another US object in the game and other times it seems it's only N/G equipment. I hope you're right unseen... many important US vessels weren't built at Newport News. I hope that is an indicator of more US vessels in the future.

Regards, Goshikisen.

goshikisen
12-22-2004, 05:01 PM
I haven't whined about Japanese Cruisers much over the last little while so might as well get one in.

Heavy Cruiser Mikuma in 1938... detail shot.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1935_Mogami_class/h73030.jpg

Regards, Goshikisen

Docjonel
12-22-2004, 09:34 PM
Goshiken, I was last at Battleship Cove a few years ago with my brother. We figured we'd probably get a quick restricted walk through the Massachusetts with most of the areas roped off from us. We were surprised to find our selves basically wandering through the whole ship with very few areas off limits. Spent much more time there than we expected. Eventually found ourselves down by the engine rooms. Fascinating experience-- I'm not sure if they still allow such unrestricted exploration of the ship, but if you've never been to Battleship Cove it's worth the trip.
http://www.battleshipcove.com/exhibits.htm

goshikisen
12-23-2004, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Docjonel:
We were surprised to find our selves basically wandering through the whole ship with very few areas off limits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope the situation is still the same... seems like a very interesting tour. Does anybody know if the USS Iowa is open for tours yet? My wife has friends in San Francisco... it'd make a good side trip.

Regards, Goshikisen.

p.s. please add IJN Cruisers to PF. Thank you.

toutin
12-23-2004, 03:55 PM
Still with you goshikisen!!!

Go on mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

laca25
12-23-2004, 05:33 PM
Bump!

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-24-2004, 02:07 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

unseen84
12-24-2004, 12:08 PM
I was hoping to see some ships in that dev update, but oh well. The keyword there was "some of the objects."

goshikisen
12-24-2004, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
I was hoping to see some ships in that dev update, but oh well. The keyword there was "_some_ of the objects." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The word "some" has me very hopeful as well. I'd like an IJN Cruiser for Christmas please.

Speaking of Christmas... it's not Japanese but it's an Axis cruiser none the less. DKM Prinz Eugen, Christmas 1940.

http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/PG/action11.jpg

Season's Greetings, Goshikisen

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-24-2004, 02:37 PM
Prinz Eugen would be nice, but it is a heavy Cruiser http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the K-Class - Ships are some smaller ones, but still the main guns are pretty nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
see here:
http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/050.jpg

goshikisen
12-27-2004, 09:50 PM
A picture for the mid-holiday lull...

AA position on Kako with Furutaka in the distance.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1926_Furutaka_class/Kako_09.jpg

JtD
12-28-2004, 10:21 AM
Why is there still no word about the ships to come?

There should be enough inspiration in this thread... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

goshikisen
12-29-2004, 09:35 PM
I'll add aircraft to this cruiser whine... IJN Mogami after conversion to aircraft cruiser.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1935_Mogami_class/Mogami_06.jpg

goshikisen
12-31-2004, 12:54 PM
I'll bump myself...

This is the cover of a Japanese book covering the history of the IJN from it's inception to the end of WWII. Nice painting...

http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Reference/Images%20-%20Reference/Technical/Large/Combined%20Fleet%20Waships%20Guide%201872-1945.jpg

Image from the reference page of the "Mechanisms of Imperial Japanese Navy Warships in 3-D" site. The fellow who runs this site has made an impressive model of a Japanese Destroyer. Take a look.

Regards, Goshikisen

unseen84
12-31-2004, 07:40 PM
Its been too long since I contributed to the ship thread. It was tough to see another patch come and go with no new ships, but hopefully 3.04 won't disappoint.

IJN CL Agano
http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CL_1942_Agano_class/Agano_art_01.jpg

goshikisen
01-01-2005, 08:27 PM
My favorite class... Takao. IJN Maya in 1938.

http://www.infomagic.net/~grog/maya.jpg

JtD
01-02-2005, 12:57 AM
I'd also love to see some Italian cruisers, they had some very nice and capable designs. The Zara class for example, compares well to any contemporary cruiser.

Those ships saw quite some action in the Mediterainian.

joeap
01-02-2005, 08:11 AM
I agree, the Italian CAs were very nice...and the BBs like the Vitorio Veneto or the rebuilt WWI BBs like Andre Dori. BTW did you know the Tashkent (USSR DD already in the game) was built in Italy and looks a lot like some Italian DDs and CLs.

goshikisen
01-02-2005, 10:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
I'd also love to see some Italian cruisers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I welcome multinational cruiser whining... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you're interested in various types of WWII vessels you might want to look into the Classic Warships series. The books are somewhat reminiscent of the Squadron series of books on aircraft. There just happens to be one on the Myoko class of cruiser. I found an image or 2 on the CW site of IJN Ashigara... one of the Myoko class.

http://www.classicwarships.com/images/myoko3.jpg

btw. has anyone out there had a look at "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War"? It's an 880 page book available from Amazon.com. Supposedly you've got to have a well reinforced bookshelf to support this volume. Seriously considering a purchase but a bit wary of the $85.00 Cdn. price tag.

Regards, Goshikisen

goshikisen
01-03-2005, 11:05 AM
Here's an interesting perspective on a cruiser.

IJN Kako.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1926_Furutaka_class/Kako_06.jpg

Anybody have any concrete news on possible ship additions in 3.04 or other?

Regards, Goshikisen.

MBot
01-03-2005, 12:22 PM
First class threat, keep them coming http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
That painting in your sig is great. The Takaos were realy the ultimate cruisers.

JtD
01-04-2005, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:

I welcome multinational cruiser whining... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, I'm certainly not a multinational cruser whiner. I'm more like a multinational all ships whiner. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd love to see the Dunkerque class battleships together with all those mentioned previously. They didn't see much action but must have been some of the best naval designs ever. (If you ignore the ****ty 130mm guns.)

goshikisen
01-05-2005, 07:42 PM
Here's an interesting peek at the life of the average sailor on a Japanese vessel during the Pacific War. Taken on board the aircraft carrier Hosho. Each sailor seems to, at least, have their own tatami mat.

Regards, Goshikisen.


http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Aircraft_Carriers/CV_1922_Hosho_class/Hosho_12.jpg

joeap
01-06-2005, 06:46 AM
Love boat it ain't. Saburo Sakai is supposed to ahve commented that the food was the lowest level consumable by human beings. And he was a fighter pilot (albeit always on land bases).

Ruy Horta
01-06-2005, 11:37 AM
sigh...

Gato__Loco
01-06-2005, 12:08 PM
Eight pages and no official comment on this? I'd like to hear from Oleg and crew...

goshikisen
01-06-2005, 03:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gato__Loco:
Eight pages and no official comment on this? I'd like to hear from Oleg and crew... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would be nice to have someone in the know update us on the ships issue. I have heard a number of rumours and received occasional bits of information but none of it is official.

Interesting commment in the recent SimHQ review of PF on the ships issue. I quote...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted at SimHQ:
More interestingly is the lack of almost all of the major capital ships that were part of the Pacific. I don€t expect every single battleship or cruiser class to be represented in the game but there are no U.S. battleships or IJN battlewagons €" only the King George V class dreadnoughts are in the game. In addition there are no British destroyers or cruisers, no IJN heavy cruisers and only the USS Indianapolis (a Northampton class if I remember correctly) is represented as a heavy cruiser in the game.

If you have a full FB / AEP / PF install you can add some of the earlier warships like the Tirpitz and several Russian heavy cruisers and destroyers. This helps but for those of us that thrive on immersion, I really would have liked to see some of real ships that took part in these battles. A Pearl Harbor scenario with a bunch of King George V battleships just doesn€t look right. Attacking the Yamato is impossible in the game. There should have at a minimum been two types of IJN battleships, two types of U.S. battleships (more for a credible Pearl Harbor scenario), several cruisers and the Yorktown class carriers. It€s a gripe, but IMHO, a major one.

I know there are reasons as to why some of these ships and some of the aircraft didn€t make it into the game €" but they are excuses. This is a Pacific Theatre, Second World War game and these ships and these aircraft should be in the game. I slammed CFS2 for some of the same things so I can do nothing less than make some of the same critiques of Pacific Fighters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully someone at 1C will take notice of the criticism in the review or take note of my passive IJN Cruiser demonstration.

Regards, Goshikisen.

SKULLS_Exec01
01-06-2005, 05:18 PM
I agree, lets bring back the Friday updates and see what the model builders are up to...
bump

unseen84
01-07-2005, 12:27 AM
FWIW, I saw awhile ago on netwings that someone had modelled one of those IJN 3-stack light cruisers, but I have no idea what its status is now.

The total lack of any official info about upcoming ships is getting tiresome, but afterall, it is a flight sim, not a ship sim. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Btw, Indy was a Portland class CA, not Northampton.

goshikisen
01-07-2005, 08:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
The total lack of any official info about upcoming ships is getting tiresome... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I'm approaching this ships thing the wrong way. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel. Maybe I should get all indignant and complain about my rights... maybe burn Oleg in digital effigy. Around here it seems you only get recognized if you're belly aching louder than everyone else...

Would I do that? Nahhh... it's not my style. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards, Goshikisen.

unseen84
01-07-2005, 05:40 PM
I hear that goshikisen. I know could fill the boards with ship stuff and flood Oleg's e-mail and whatnot, but that isn't my style either, plus I'm just too lazy. nice sig, btw.

It would be a shame if PF never sees any of these
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h90000/h90773.jpg

JtD
01-08-2005, 04:38 AM
There is a couple of Naval object in the sim already we cant use: all the boats on bord the capital ships. If we could have them seperated from the ships this would be a very nice low effort addition - simulating landing expeditions, harbour traffic etc. Just take those ready 3D objects, give them a common low detail damage model (in fact, you may copy from that trawler) and you got about 10 new boats in the sim.

goshikisen
01-08-2005, 07:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
It would be a shame if PF never sees any of these. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would... those battlewagons are pure IJN.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MBot:
That painting in your sig is great. The Takaos really were the ultimate cruisers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They're my favorite cruiser. They really look the part. In recognition of the Takao's I bring you a detail shot of IJN Chokai. One more in goshikisen's "keep the cruiser fire alive" series.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/_History/Galleries/Chokai_10.jpg

Regards, Goshikisen

joeap
01-08-2005, 11:03 AM
Takao class, looks lots of 8 inch guns, LONG LANCE torpedoes, what more do you want?? Well maybe some 40mm AA and 5" dual purpose. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Seriously, glad to see some naval fans here, was impressed by the ship models even found in FB: Marat, Kirov, Tashkent, Tirpitz etc.

goshikisen
01-08-2005, 10:46 PM
Might as well add the second of the 2 shots of the Chokai... fine photo of the massive bridge structure.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/_History/Galleries/Chokai_03.jpg

MoritzJGOne
01-08-2005, 11:55 PM
Pf Has inspried me to buy a few of the Waterline IJN models. I have Akagi, USS Bogue, and Mikuma. Waiting for Junyo and Taiho to come mail order.

Mikuma will be mounted with fake water and a curved wake as she tries to avoid the Vindicators and Dauntlesses at Midway.

joeap
01-09-2005, 06:13 AM
The Chokai pic looks nice goshikisen, still a lot of glass. I can imagine the bridge getting peppered with 5 inch fire from a DD during one of those furious night surface battles around Guadacanal in 1942. Then no command or control. good for navigating though.

goshikisen
01-09-2005, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joeap:
The Chokai pic looks nice goshikisen, still a lot of glass. I can imagine the bridge getting peppered with 5 inch fire from a DD during one of those furious night surface battles around Guadacanal in 1942. Then no command or control. good for navigating though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bridge reminds me of the Iowa class... but then the Iowa's had an armored bridge that commanders could retire to during battle. I'd imagine that the Takao had something similar... possibly directly underneath the bridge.

Moritz... I've been thinking of picking up a few of the waterline kits. Tamiya recently retooled their Yamato waterline kit... it'd be interesting to build.

A curved wake... nice. Too bad PF can't give us curved wakes at the moment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards, Goshikisen

MoritzJGOne
01-09-2005, 03:12 PM
I also plan to pick up one of the Takao's by Aoshima. They make all five.

actionhank1786
01-09-2005, 04:04 PM
This thread is getting me interested in Ships http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
MORE/BUMP

*edit* who's got some nice pictures of those Giant IJN subs?

unseen84
01-09-2005, 06:14 PM
I've been building 1/700 waterline kits for years. Its nice to hear new people taking an interest in it. I just finished the Tamiya Hornet a couple days ago, a nice kit for its age.

Moritz, if you're thinking of building a Takao, I highly recommend the kits from Pit-Road/Skywave. I built their Takao over the summer, it was an excellent build and the detail is outstanding. They are more expensive, but are worth it if you're really into it.

I've built the Akagi & Bogue, they're both quality kits, but that was a few years ago, and I'm probably going to give them a second go around since my skills have gotten much better since then.

Goshikisen, Tamiya's old Yamato was the 1st waterline kit I ever built, when I was about 8 or 9 years old. I haven't tried the new version, but I have built their new Shinano, and its excellent.

here ya go, hank
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/sen_toku.gif
I-400 seen after the war

goshikisen
01-09-2005, 09:50 PM
unseen... the Skywave/Pitroad kits, do you get them from Hobby Link Japan or do you have another source for those kits. I'd like to get the Takao that you mentioned.

Found an interesting image on a Japanese IJN site. In the foreground is what looks like either a Hatsuharu or Fubuki (suspect Fubuki) class destroyer and in the background we see a Nagato class Battleship. Wouldn't Nagato make a fine addition to PF?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/goshikisen/battledestroy.jpg

unseen84
01-09-2005, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
unseen... the Skywave/Pitroad kits, do you get them from Hobby Link Japan or do you have another source for those kits. I'd like to get the Takao that you mentioned.

Found an interesting image on a Japanese IJN site. In the foreground is what looks like either a Hatsuharu or Fubuki (suspect Fubuki) class destroyer and in the background we see a Nagato class Battleship. Wouldn't Nagato make a fine addition to PF?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At this point, any IJN (or USN) BB would be a fine addition.

I've never actually tried Hobby Link Japan. Sites I've ordered from in the past include tridenthobbies.com, internethobbies.com, & pacificfront.com. Trident & Pacific Front have the best selections of Pitroad/Skywave stuff that I've found. Prices vary on the same kit from site to site. I've found Trident quite reliable, but I had a problem with Pacific Front a few months ago when I ordered the Pitroad Unryu kit from them. It turned that the kit was on backorder, but their site didn't say anything about it, otherwise I wouldn't have ordered it. After a few weeks of nothing, I sent the guy an e-mail asking what was going on and he filled me in. I finally got the kit almost 3 months after I ordered it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

None of the hobby stores where I live have much ship stuff, so I have to get almost everything online.

JtD
01-11-2005, 10:25 AM
To give this thread an educated bump: The 20 is Fubukis number and that thingy on the BB's smokestack betrays it's Nagato not Mutsu.

Regarding ship modelling: I got myself three of the 1/350th scale models of Tamiya, the Yamato, the Fletcher and the PoW and like all of them a lot. Those big ships make a pretty good sight in the shelf.
(Actually had some smaller scale ships as well but couldn't resist to blow them up or burn them down. Looked cool as well.)

goshikisen
01-11-2005, 01:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
To give this thread an educated bump: The 20 is Fubukis number and that thingy on the BB's smokestack betrays it's Nagato not Mutsu.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for clarifying JtD. I don't know much about the various classes of IJN Destroyers but I suspected it was Fubuki.

Read about the fate of Mutsu... a rather ignominious end for a substantial capital ship. I hear the IJN did as much as they could to hush up the real fate of the ship at the time of it's sinking.

Regards, Goshikisen

unseen84
01-11-2005, 06:29 PM
Speaking of the Mutsu, combinedfleet.com has a pretty good summary of her sinking and the events that followed.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/Mutsu.html

The Mutsu's no.4 turret was raised during the 70s and is on display at a memorial now.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/mutsu7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/Mutsu4.jpg

goshikisen
01-12-2005, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
The Mutsu's no.4 turret was raised during the 70s and is on display at a memorial now.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For a navy the size of the IJN... it's amazing how little evidence of its existance there is left. I went to the Yamato memorial in Kure and all they had, besides a rudimentary sculpture of the mid-section of the ship, were a couple 18 inch shells.

You'd almost think they'd try and raise a turret from the Yamato or Musashi... although I don't know how the Japanese feel about salvaging from war graves. If they can raise the Kursk... they can probably bring up one of those turrets.

Speaking of Yamato... does anyone know of any online resources about the wreck site?

Regards, Goshikisen.

JtD
01-12-2005, 12:00 PM
For some pictures of the wreck look here

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Battleships/1941_Yamato_class/Wreck/_Yamato_wreck_02.html

This one has quite some info about a lot of Japanese wrecks

http://www.combinedfleet.com/atully08.htm

There is so little left of the Japanese Navy because
a) Japan lost the war and
b) many of the ships that were sunk in shallow water were wrecked after the war.

Similar to the German navy after World War I, at that time one of the biggest fleets in the world (not too many losses during the war). Yet almost all major ships were scuttled in Scapa Flow and today you will have a hard time finding even a 15" shell in Germany.

goshikisen
01-12-2005, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
For some pictures of the wreck look here

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Battleships/1941_Yamato_class/Wreck/_Yamato_wreck_02.html
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The diorama was built by Tamiya for a TV documentary on the wreck of the Yamato. Would have been an interesting show.

goshikisen
01-13-2005, 07:07 PM
Time for a personal bump.

IJN Aoba in a portrait with period atmosphere. Looking very 1930's.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h97000/h97731.jpg

unseen84
01-13-2005, 09:50 PM
for a change of pace, here's USS Tennessee pre and post-modernization. Looks like 2 totally different ships.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/18.jpg

toutin
01-14-2005, 04:01 AM
180 posts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif no official answer...
I'm losing faith

JtD
01-14-2005, 07:41 AM
And it also has the most views of all topics on the first page except for two stickies.

No whining in here.

No harsh words.

No nitpicking.

means:

No attention.

goshikisen
01-14-2005, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
And it also has the most views of all topics on the first page except for two stickies.

No whining in here.

No harsh words.

No nitpicking.

means:

No attention. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems like a bit of a paradox in a forum devoted to a war simulation but I'd like to think of this as the Mahatma Gandhi approach to whining. Just keep the issue alive sans aggressive and confrontational tactics and someone will take notice. For what it's worth... a modeller, who already has some of their work in the IL2 series, has contacted me for references on ships. I am not at liberty to divulge more information... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Besides... if nothing else people might learn a thing or 2 about another aspect of the Pacific War.

Unseen, that modernisation that the Tennessee underwent... is it similar to that of the West Virginia's? They both look very So Dak around the mid section post surgery.

Regards, Goshikisen.

unseen84
01-14-2005, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Unseen, that modernisation that the Tennessee underwent... is it similar to that of the West Virginia's? They both look very So Dak around the mid section post surgery.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would say so. All of the surviving Pearl Harbor battleships (California, Tennessee, W. Virginia, Nevada, etc.)underwent similar transformations.

If nothing else, I hope that the fact that this ship thread has made it to its 10th page shows Oleg & co. that people do care about ships, and there is interest in seeing more of them.

goshikisen
01-14-2005, 08:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
All of the surviving Pearl Harbor battleships (California, Tennessee, W. Virginia, Nevada, etc.)underwent similar transformations.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I forgot the Tennessee and the West Virginia were side by side during the Pearl Harbor attack.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h50000/h50770.jpg

unseen84
01-15-2005, 11:07 AM
A bit of an addition to my last post,

Its interesting to note that West Virginia's sisters, Colorado and Maryland, largely retained their original appearance post-modernisation, unlike WVa.

Colorado in '44
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/014503.jpg

West Virginia in '44
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/014855.jpg

goshikisen
01-15-2005, 06:26 PM
I don't know too much about US battleship camouflage but it certainly looks cool. I didn't realize the US had experimented with camo to the extent that they did. Is that angular type known as measure 32/16D?

It'd be great to see a US battleship in PF wearing some sort of camouflage. Come to think of it... it'd be nice to see a US battleship in PF.

Regards, Goshikisen.

TWC_DARKANGEL
01-15-2005, 06:41 PM
Yes, I agree with you all. However I would love to see all those ships & more. Like the higgins boats. The U.S.A. used them to take troops ashore. I am going to try and make a movie. But I need ships, men, vehicle's. Just think of it. Watching men coming ashore with ships in the back ground firing thier big guns, & planes flying over head. For the most part once you have a ship the rest in that class should be easy. For they are the sister ships. All you should have to do is change the ship #'s or names. I would like to see ship's fight each other. One more thing. I would not mind if I was a ships captin, or be able to man the AA guns. How about keeping the supply line open to the front. If that is cut then the front line start to loose their power. Oh well just a thought. P.S. How about some torpedo planes to fly. you guy's are doing a fine job just the same. It's better than microsoft's CFS games. They never listen to us. Thanks.

TWC_DARKANGEL
01-15-2005, 07:04 PM
Oops. One more thing. I know this is asking for to much. But I would love to see every ship that was in WW2. Then let us use the ships as we want to. I would be willing to pay extra for this. Just a thought

goshikisen
01-15-2005, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TWC_DARKANGEL:
One more thing. I know this is asking for to much. But I would love to see every ship that was in WW2. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darkangel... ambitious desire but I can see where you're coming from. Realistically, I'd be more than happy to see a few more major players, ship-wise, for the IJN, USN & RN. On the other hand... I'd like to see some targets like this one.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g380000/g386387.jpg

I believe it was Tater, in this thread a few pages back, who said that smaller traffic would increase the immersion factor of PF. I'd tend to agree.

Regards, Goshikisen.

unseen84
01-16-2005, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
I forgot the Tennessee and the West Virginia were side by side during the Pearl Harbor attack.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

but...where was the King George V? or Duke of York? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

In those pics, both Colorado and West Virginia are in variations of Ms32. Colorado is in 32/16d, WVa in 32/7d. In 45, the USN switched almost the entire fleet to either Ms21 or 22. 21 is the all-blue scheme that I posted a pic of a few pages back, plus PF's Indianapolis is in this scheme, more or less. 22 is a blue/grey graded scheme that one of PF's Fletchers is in, I think.

JtD
01-16-2005, 12:42 PM
WRT the older US battleships, in my first ever book on BB's I found two very good pictures of Tennessee, they just impressed me. This is one of them I found online:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014304.jpg

In my book it's a wider scope and the massive massive ship in the background is even more pronounced that way.

WOLFMondo
01-16-2005, 01:03 PM
USS Tennessee, from the second turret back she looks like a different ship after her modernisation.

IVJG51_Dart
01-16-2005, 01:22 PM
I'd love to see the USS San Jacinto done since our virtual squad was attached to her. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

goshikisen
01-17-2005, 06:25 PM
Here's a photograph to remind people why ships are important to a flight simulation. Japanese Destroyer under attack by B-25 Mitchells in 1945. Notice the path of the destroyer... it's just completing an evasive 180.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/goshikisen/mitchellattack.jpg

Oleg, more ships and realistic ship movement for PF please.

Regards, Goshikisen.

unseen84
01-17-2005, 07:46 PM
Ships in 1942:PAW had the ability to take evasive action, and that game is what, 10 years old? That makes it hard for me to believe that PF couldn't do it.

Goshikisen, I'd say the DD in that pic looks like a Matsu-class DD or (more likely) a Hei or Tei-class DE. Any of those would make a good representative of a late war IJN DD.

unseen84
01-17-2005, 07:55 PM
Zarathael posted this over in the PF forum, hope he/she doesn't mind me posting it here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
This all asks for a lot, but this is my definition of "complete". I derive this definition by comparison to the level of detail found in the Eastern front/FB. We have how many variants of Panzers available? and we have two carrier classes and no Battleship classes available for the major combatants of the pacific war? These ships are just as important for a pacific sim as the variety of ground vehicles is for the eastern front. (More so in my opinion, I can distiguish ship classes from a few miles out... can anybody say that about the armor?) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Granted, it probably takes a lot longer to model a battleship than it does a tank, but nevertheless, those were good points.

goshikisen
01-17-2005, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
Granted, it probably takes a lot longer to model a battleship than it does a tank, but nevertheless, those were good points. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For me, Pacific Fighters with just a smattering of ships constitutes a fundamental oversight. Carrier aviation just isn't up to snuff without a basic range of ships... to be honest, PF hasn't even reached the basic level of fleet representation.

I continue to be critical of this issue because I think this sim is great... but the ship issue is a glaring flaw. Zarathael makes a good point.

Regards, Goshikisen

unseen84
01-18-2005, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
to be honest, PF hasn't even reached the _basic_ level of fleet representation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed.

USN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 1 CVE, 0 BB/BC, 1 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 DE, 1 sub

RN has 1 CV, 1 BB/BC, 0 CA, 0 CL, 0 DD

IJN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 0 BB, 0 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 subs

That's counting by classes.

All of those zeroes need to be turned into 1's before I'd say they have basic fleet representation.

spoonfish
01-18-2005, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
to be honest, PF hasn't even reached the _basic_ level of fleet representation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed.

USN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 1 CVE, 0 BB/BC, 1 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 DE, 1 sub

RN has 1 CV, 1 BB/BC, 0 CA, 0 CL, 0 DD

IJN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 0 BB, 0 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 subs

That's counting by classes.

All of those zeroes need to be turned into 1's before I'd say they have basic fleet representation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spot on I reckon. I really hope an official answer is forthcoming.

unseen84
01-18-2005, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spoonfish:
Spot on I reckon. I really hope an official answer is forthcoming. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, that answer is a definitive "NO!" Another patch comes and goes with nothing new (ships, that is). This is growing tiresome. Oh well.

goshikisen
01-18-2005, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spoonfish:
Spot on I reckon. I really hope an official answer is forthcoming. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, that answer is a definitive "NO!" Another patch comes and goes with nothing new (ships, that is). This is growing tiresome. Oh well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg said that 3.04 was going to be a "small" patch in a previous post. At first I thought he was joking but now it appears the word "small" was appropriate.

3.05, I take it, will be the patch that adds content.

Regards, Goshikisen.

p.s. Oleg (or anybody with any real information) will there be ships added to the ones we already have?

unseen84
01-18-2005, 11:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Oleg said that 3.04 was going to be a "small" patch in a previous post. At first I thought he was joking but now it appears the word "small" was appropriate.

3.05, I take it, will be the patch that adds content.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hadn't heard that. I guess that makes this a little less disappointing.

joeap
01-18-2005, 03:19 PM
Let us hope the Nihon Kaigun gets some ships, and the USN boys too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

JtD
01-19-2005, 08:49 AM
Sorry, have to get back to Tennessee, as I found both images, even though low quality:

http://www.warships1.com/US/USbb43-Tenn-45-aerial1-OK.jpg

and

http://www.warships1.com/US/USbb43-Tenn-45-prtfrt1-OK.jpg

The amazing thing about the pictures is the differnce in appearnce. While it looks very elegant in the first, it's seems invincible in the second.

Apart from all those 0's into 1's we need some more civilian shipping. One freighter and one tanker is insufficient. No boats at all. And that brings me to the lack of PT boats, which are needed as well.

goshikisen
01-19-2005, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Sorry, have to get back to Tennessee, as I found both images, even though low quality:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That raked stem looks impressive... reminds me of the "Atlantic Stem" on Scharnhorst, Gneisenau & Prinz Eugen. As a matter of fact when unseen posted the first image of Tennessee I had to do a millisecond double take to make sure I wasn't looking at something German.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Apart from all those 0's into 1's we need some more civilian shipping. One freighter and one tanker is insufficient. No boats at all. And that brings me to the lack of PT boats, which are needed as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true... it'd be interesting to fly into a harbor and see tugs, transports, etc. moving about. PT's, Schnellboats, Japanese torpedo boats... that kind of traffic. The occasional fishing boat or junk. All of these would add to the immersion factor in a huge way.

Regards, Goshikisen.

goshikisen
01-20-2005, 07:49 AM
A dramatic shot of Chikuma on exercises sometime in the 1930's. Interesting design with all four turrets up front.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CA_1938_Tone_class/Chikuma_11.jpg

JtD
01-20-2005, 08:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
That raked stem looks impressive... reminds me of the "Atlantic Stem" on Scharnhorst, Gneisenau & Prinz Eugen. As a matter of fact when unseen posted the first image of Tennessee I had to do a millisecond double take to make sure I wasn't looking at something German. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It never occurred to me, but now that you mention it: It's true. They do look a bit similar from some angles.

Honestly I don't like the Chikumas design. Interesting, but ugly. For me two turrets at the front are the maximum for a good looking ship and I can forgive the Atagos their third turret because they make up for it in other places. But the Chikuma...it's just ugly. And iIrc it still has poor armor.

JG53Frankyboy
01-20-2005, 08:42 AM
well ,actually , ONE real ship of the classes
Battleship
Cruiser
Destroyer
for each pacific navy (USN , RN, IJN) would be realy welcome

goshikisen
01-20-2005, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:

Honestly I don't like the Chikumas design. Interesting, but ugly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In terms of a design they are somewhat odd. I've heard the Tone and Chikuma referred to as "Scout" Cruisers. Anyone know what that means?

Thought I'd drop in another IJN "slice of life" photo. Taken on board the light cruiser Oyodo.

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Japonia/Cruisers/CL_1943_Oyodo_class/Oyodo_01.jpg

Regards, Goshikisen.

unseen84
01-20-2005, 09:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
In terms of a design they are somewhat odd. I've heard the Tone and Chikuma referred to as "Scout" Cruisers. Anyone know what that means?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know, but I'd guess that just refers to their large complement of aircraft, to be used for reconiassance purposes, like they were at Midway.

And for the record, I don't really like Tone & Chikuma's design either, same goes for Mogami after her reconfiguration.

goshikisen
01-21-2005, 11:49 AM
This is a rather interesting piece of IJN history. The officers in the photograph are saluting the ashes of Adm. Yamamoto as they leave the Musashi on their way to Tokyo. Notice the undulating deck that is the signature of the Yamato class... also note the brass band on the right hand side of the image.

http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Photo/Musashi4.jpg

Regards, Goshikisen.

RogueSnake79
01-21-2005, 09:26 PM
I with you guys, the lack of ships in game based on the Pacific war is sad.

With that said, it is a fighter sim so I can understand the priority of planes first. Although I was really hoping to see some new ships in the 3.04 patch. Just as said up there, one of each class would make me very happy.

More over the ability to skins ships would be nice. I understand that skinning a ship would be a task that would take weeks, but we could do some of the work for Oleg. If he added the Arizona how many sister ships could we skin from its model? Alot.

I really find it hard to understand why the games objects are still locked away from us. All we want is to skin them, why not?

But I'm not going to complain too much, patches that add are really rare. And Maddox Games has proven in the past that they we continue to make their product better over time.

Naval Forces requested! Please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW its worth viewing this thread just to see the awsome pics you guys dig up ~S

Shakthamac
01-22-2005, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

More over the ability to skins ships would be nice. I understand that skinning a ship would be a task that would take weeks, but we could do some of the work for Oleg. If he added the Arizona how many sister ships could we skin from its model? Alot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably just one, since the only sister the Arizona had was the Pennsylvania

goshikisen
01-22-2005, 01:42 PM
Here's something else that might be interesting to see in the game... smoke that moves as though there were wind. Here's a colour image of a burning ship with smoke travelling almost horizontally.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/germans/abu.sized.jpg

It'd also help the immersion aspect of things if the smoke did a better job of dispersing as it travelled. In BoB perhaps?

Regards, Goshikisen.

goshikisen
01-24-2005, 11:54 AM
To continue the topic of other types of ships that warrant representation in PF. How about an IJN Minelayer. Here's a couple images of an Itsukushima class minelayer.

http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Photo/Itsukushima02.jpg

http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Photo/Itsukushima01.jpg

Regards, Goshikisen.

p.s. Oleg or any official folks... any chance you could tell us if you have any plans to expand the range of ships in PF?

spoonfish
01-27-2005, 06:59 AM
McBump

Sharkey888
01-27-2005, 05:57 PM
We need these!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/cavourzara.jpg

unseen84
01-29-2005, 11:06 AM
The ship thread must not be sunk!

I'm trying to keep my hopes up that Hornet and her sisters will find their way into PF. All the early war battles, especially Midway, feel totally wrong without them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/g41197.jpg

jagdmailer
01-29-2005, 11:12 AM
How many of the missing ships, aicrafts & finished campaigns can you fit on the MIA third CD ?

Jagd

Sharkey888
01-29-2005, 12:31 PM
Go Nachi!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/nachi.jpg

cwojackson
01-29-2005, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:


Any news on additional ships?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Some WWI English Battlecruisers and the Norway/Iceland ferry.

goshikisen
01-29-2005, 09:58 PM
Found an interesting Axis photo (well, sort of... it predates WWII). IJN Ashigara on a visit to Germany. The photo shows a German sailor conversing with some IJN sailors on the stern of Ashigara. The ship in the background is the pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee.

Sharkey, I believe the ship in the image you provided is most likely Ashigara (Nachi's sister) as you can see the Admiral Graf Spee anchored in behind. No doubt another photo taken from the same trip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/goshikisen/ashigara.jpg

Regards, Goshikisen.

Sharkey888
01-30-2005, 07:29 PM
Goshikisen you are correct!! I never noticed that before.
How about this in the game!?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/torpmt01.jpg

Sharkey888
01-30-2005, 07:30 PM
Or this!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/kirishima.jpg

Sharkey888
01-30-2005, 07:38 PM
Just imagine flying in your KATE to torpedo the HORNET.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/katetorp.jpg

unseen84
02-01-2005, 09:24 AM
No, this is not from PF. Its from the arcade-style game Battlestations: Midway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/rsn84/562047_20041014_screen001.jpg

Looks like a Kongo and a Fuso class BB.

It would be a shame if an "arcade" game like Midway came out with a more thorough presentation of the fleets than sim PF.

goshikisen
02-01-2005, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen84:
It would be a shame if an "arcade" game like Midway came out with a more thorough presentation of the fleets than sim PF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right about the arcade part... just watched a video clip from the game of an Avenger dropping a torpedo into what looked like an Essex class carrier. The flight dynamics looked almost laughable.

The sea and the way the ships moved looked really slick... Japanese destroyers maneuvering, swaying with the waves, etc... looked quite convincing. Didn't see any Japanese Cruisers though.

Hopefully Oleg and his crew of capable modellers will provide us with some Japanese battleships and cruisers.

Regards, Goshikisen.

Sharkey888
02-01-2005, 04:14 PM
Looks interesting.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/mid.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/mid3.jpg

Mjollnir111675
02-01-2005, 07:14 PM
That could be just the game i am lookin for for my boys and their ps2.
yes it is arcade but it does look FUN!!
I too love the way the ships have actual A.I. and did ya see that smokestack get shot the h3ll off?!?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
But in concerns to pf yes we need that kinda fleet AI.
I was reading that some torp plane aircrews had a tactic in which fighters would pretend to come in like dive bombers,causing the ships to go into evasive manuevers and in the process of turning and causing severe listing in a particular direction, they would effectively render one whole sides worth of aa useless and that is when the torp planes come in to give it a go on the side in which the guns were aiming at water or at the sky.Lastly the dive bombers came in as the fighters resumed overhead cover
Kick @rse tactic if I say so. BTW the fighters would in their dive go on to just strafe the h3ll outta the ship.

EDIT: whats with almost all of the planes with their gear down?? And the funky prow crest that doesnt ever break?? Looks like Shemps haircut on the 3 stooges!!

HEY 1-C: PIMP OUR TORP PLANES!! And fleet AI!!

unseen84
02-01-2005, 10:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
That could be just the game i am lookin for for my boys and their ps2.
yes it is arcade but it does look FUN!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely. I'm for sure getting it for my x-box. Its definitely nice to take a little break from the constraints of FB and just wreak havoc and blow a bunch of stuff up.

And look at that, they've got at Yorktown CV. Imagine that! Albeit its in a historically inaccurate configuration & camo, but nevertheless.

I've been saying for awhile that the ships need some semblance of AI to take evasive action. Having them just sail straight ahead while I'm attacking them isn't very entertaining or challenging (save for the sniper AA fire).

RogueSnake79
02-02-2005, 08:00 AM
That game looks good. I wonder if its got the Yamato? Anyway, I'm going to their website to learn more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks,

and Bump

MoritzJGOne
02-02-2005, 03:57 PM
Do we send a copy of Battlestations: Midway to the Northrop Grumman legal department?

Sharkey888
02-03-2005, 04:38 PM
Keep it alive.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/Myoko8726all4.jpg

goshikisen
02-03-2005, 05:59 PM
Interesting Photo Sharkey... it seems the IJN liked to organize sisters from the same class into Squadrons. I know the Takaos spent sometime together in the same Squadron.

speaking of Cruisers - I recently purchased "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War" by Eric Lacroix and Linton Wells. 885 pages of Cruiser history... pretty comprehensive. If anyone out there has need of profiles of IJN Cruisers for anything (hint, hint) I'd be happy to assist.

Regards, Goshikisen.

Sharkey888
02-03-2005, 09:22 PM
I saw that book, looks like it would have lots of good info and pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/Nachi_21.jpg

RogueSnake79
02-03-2005, 10:03 PM
How about one of these?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/RogueSnake79/jwb.jpg
One of 2,000 built for the war.

jagdmailer
02-04-2005, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
Interesting Photo Sharkey... it seems the IJN liked to organize sisters from the same class into Squadrons. I know the Takaos spent sometime together in the same Squadron.

speaking of Cruisers - I recently purchased "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War" by Eric Lacroix and Linton Wells. 885 pages of Cruiser history... pretty comprehensive. If anyone out there has need of profiles of IJN Cruisers for anything (hint, hint) I'd be happy to assist.

Regards, Goshikisen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goshikisen,

Is there a list of ships and/or classes of ships per country (carriers, battleships, battle cruisers, heavy cruisers, cruisers, light cruisers.......etc) that are actually in the game as of 3.04 stricly for the Pacific add-on ?

ie.:

US:

Lexington Class carrier

- USS Lexingont
- USS Saratoga

..........

Just curious.....I know we are missing tons on either side, but I have never seen an actual list of what is in PF as we speak.



Jagd

IVJG51_Dart
02-04-2005, 11:44 AM
Sure would like to see CVL-30 USS San Jacinto modeled. Home of Air Group 51. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://www.jg51.net/images/sanjacinto.jpg

IVJG51_Dart
02-04-2005, 11:56 AM
Another of USS San Jacinto.

http://www.jg51.net/images/withlexington.jpg

goshikisen
02-04-2005, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
Is there a list of ships and/or classes of ships per country (carriers, battleships, battle cruisers, heavy cruisers, cruisers, light cruisers.......etc) that are actually in the game as of 3.04 stricly for the Pacific add-on ?

ie.:

US:

Lexington Class carrier

- USS Lexingont
- USS Saratoga

..........

Just curious.....I know we are missing tons on either side, but I have never seen an actual list of what is in PF as we speak.
Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jagdmailer,

unseen came up with this list a couple of pages back in this thread. It tells you which generic classes have content and which don't. A little later I'll spend some time listing the exact names of the various classes but this might begin to give you some idea.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen:
USN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 1 CVE, 0 BB/BC, 1 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 DE, 1 sub

RN has 1 CV, 1 BB/BC, 0 CA, 0 CL, 0 DD

IJN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 0 BB, 0 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 subs

That's counting by classes.

All of those zeroes need to be turned into 1's before I'd say they have basic fleet representation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

jagdmailer
02-04-2005, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
Is there a list of ships and/or classes of ships per country (carriers, battleships, battle cruisers, heavy cruisers, cruisers, light cruisers.......etc) that are actually in the game as of 3.04 stricly for the Pacific add-on ?

ie.:

US:

Lexington Class carrier

- USS Lexingont
- USS Saratoga

..........

Just curious.....I know we are missing tons on either side, but I have never seen an actual list of what is in PF as we speak.
Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jagdmailer,

unseen came up with this list a couple of pages back in this thread. It tells you which generic classes have content and which don't. A little later I'll spend some time listing the exact names of the various classes but this might begin to give you some idea.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen:
USN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 1 CVE, 0 BB/BC, 1 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 DE, 1 sub

RN has 1 CV, 1 BB/BC, 0 CA, 0 CL, 0 DD

IJN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 0 BB, 0 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 subs

That's counting by classes.

All of those zeroes need to be turned into 1's before I'd say they have basic fleet representation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy $hit Batman!

I knew the ship representation in PF was rather meager but this is absolutely stupendous.....no US or IJN battleships, only basically one class or 2 class of carriers per navy, no IJN cruisers at all whatsoever.....Luthier clearly $crewed the pooch on this one....Judging by those numbers above, I think there is at least 2 CDs worth of stuff missing, not just the one.

For instance, how can you have a decently accurate Pearl Harbor scenario when the only Battleship in Battleship row is a Royal Navy BB - the sole & only one at that that is duplicated all over the harbor ??

PF is a decent base but the offering is clearly a lot less than what it should be and what was portayed to be over the last year or so, namely by Mr. Shevchenko. I recall him saying that the new sim would have dozens of classes of ships on Netwings back in late 2003 and early 2004 before the theatre of ops was announced. Where is the product ?

BTW, someone let us know when he gets out of hidding or spotted. Rumor has it that he is hidding with Elvis or perhaps has been abducted by Aliens......

Jagd

unseen84
02-04-2005, 12:52 PM
Before PF came out, a pretty extensive list of ship classes that were supposed to be in the game was posted in the forums.

Some of the types that I can remember it said off hand are Shinano, Kongo, Takao, and a bunch of others. I tried doing a search for it, but of course that didn't turn up anything. I just don't know what to think of it all now.

Sharkey888
02-04-2005, 08:37 PM
Just a little bump.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/ise1.jpg

unseen84
02-04-2005, 09:27 PM
I'd like to see someone try to land on that thing! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

(IRL, planes didn't land on it, they just took off, then landed on regular carriers or land bases)

Sharkey888
02-05-2005, 02:39 PM
This would've been great.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/natori.jpg

jagdmailer
02-05-2005, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
Is there a list of ships and/or classes of ships per country (carriers, battleships, battle cruisers, heavy cruisers, cruisers, light cruisers.......etc) that are actually in the game as of 3.04 stricly for the Pacific add-on ?

ie.:

US:

Lexington Class carrier

- USS Lexingont
- USS Saratoga

..........

Just curious.....I know we are missing tons on either side, but I have never seen an actual list of what is in PF as we speak.
Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jagdmailer,

unseen came up with this list a couple of pages back in this thread. It tells you which generic classes have content and which don't. A little later I'll spend some time listing the exact names of the various classes but this might begin to give you some idea.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by unseen:
USN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 1 CVE, 0 BB/BC, 1 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 DE, 1 sub

RN has 1 CV, 1 BB/BC, 0 CA, 0 CL, 0 DD

IJN has 2 CV, 0 CVL, 0 BB, 0 CA, 0 CL, 2 DD, 0 subs

That's counting by classes.

All of those zeroes need to be turned into 1's before I'd say they have basic fleet representation.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There seem to be a list of ships in PF on that link:

http://www.airwarfare.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ_PF.htm

All in all, pretty much what the list of classes you indicated.

Pretty disapointing overall for a Pacific sim and specially in relation to what was promissed by the instigator.

Jagd

goshikisen
02-06-2005, 08:31 AM
Here's another cruiser detail shot. IJN Aoba taken during the 1930's.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h73000/h73015.jpg

LeadSpitter_
02-06-2005, 09:06 PM
some catapulted seaplanes on alot of the battleships and cruisers would be excellent.

Sharkey888
02-07-2005, 09:45 AM
Nice close up of KONGO.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/norman888/kongo_sample1.jpg