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Skeet2005
06-09-2006, 06:19 AM
I have recently upgraded to 4.04, and find the Corsair jumping to the lft or right when firing the guns, anyone else find this? Any way to fix this a bit? I can understand some shudder, but I don't know about this, comments?

Skeet2005
06-09-2006, 06:19 AM
I have recently upgraded to 4.04, and find the Corsair jumping to the lft or right when firing the guns, anyone else find this? Any way to fix this a bit? I can understand some shudder, but I don't know about this, comments?

berg417448
06-09-2006, 07:27 AM
Others have noted this and commented on it as well. The Corsair is not the only victim either....a number of other planes suffer from this. No way to fix it as far as I know.

bogusheadbox
06-09-2006, 07:53 AM
There was a problem seen by one of the patches which made the yaw settings.
-------------------------------------------
As posted on UBI and RAF 23 forums

First look at this and recitfy to see if this makes any difference.

I think you may all be aware of it. But i have just seen that i have the axis bug in my config file.

Taken from UBI forums
----------------------------------
I use the default settings with no problems. HOWEVER, if you are experiencing the bouncy up/down can't shoot a darn thing, make sure that in the config.ini file, the z line ends in a 0 (all three should: x y and z) but with the latest patch for whatever reason the z axis ended in 100 instead of 100 0.

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0 <---
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
-------------------------------------
http://raf23sqn.freeforumhosting.net/viewtopic.php?t=170&mforum=raf23sqn

horseback
06-09-2006, 09:00 AM
There was a very long thread about this problem in Oleg's Ready Room forum; the original problem was that there was an excessive recoil shudder caused by all the .50 guns firing at precisely the same moment every time. There was also a perceived problem of targeted aircraft (particularly ai) consistantly flying 'between' volleys of the .50.

With the 4.03/4.04 patches, a varied firing rate was built into wing mounted .50s intended to alleviate this, but on selected USN fighters, someone put all the faster firing guns on one wing, and all the slower firing guns in the other, leading to an even more pronounced gunfire waggle.

Several tests confirmed that the guns on one wing consistantly ran out of ammo quite a bit sooner than the other wing's guns on the Corsair, Hellcat, and some Wildcats.

The missing zero issue is something else entirely.

cheers

horseback

juryman03
06-09-2006, 06:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
The missing zero issue is something else entirely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does the missing zero affect? I notice my Z line does end with a 100.

Skeet2005
06-09-2006, 07:42 PM
Thanks bogus and horseback... but I am still not sure if this is something I can fix? Where is the ready room???! I set an easy mission up, against bombers... I get in position, aim, pull the triggers and yaw all over trying to keep on target. Help! I just bought the DVD version (not here yet, I am playing a standalone patched up to 4.04)...so I can have them all, and I wonder if it's gonna always be this way? Can anyone help me? I hate it like this!

FritzGryphon
06-09-2006, 07:54 PM
In all likelihood, it'll be fixed in a later patch, or one of the upcoming addons.

In the meantime, you might be able to stop it by turning off realistic gunnery http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
06-09-2006, 08:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by juryman03:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
The missing zero issue is something else entirely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does the missing zero affect? I notice my Z line does end with a 100. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes it has a huge effect on how the sensitivity of the stick works. The missing 0 can mean the difference between nearly uncontrollable aircraft and predictably controllable ones.

VW-IceFire
06-09-2006, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skeet2005:
Thanks bogus and horseback... but I am still not sure if this is something I can fix? Where is the ready room???! I set an easy mission up, against bombers... I get in position, aim, pull the triggers and yaw all over trying to keep on target. Help! I just bought the DVD version (not here yet, I am playing a standalone patched up to 4.04)...so I can have them all, and I wonder if it's gonna always be this way? Can anyone help me? I hate it like this! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At the moment there is a bug in several .50cal armed planes that started with this problem when the 4.04 patch was introduced. In this patch the tracers fire in a desyncronized pattern allowing you to see a continuous stream of tracer fire. Unfortunately to do this they use a bit of a hack and each gun fires at a slightly different rate. The problem being that you need to balance the overall rate of fire on both sides of the plane which has not been done for some aircraft thus they yaw back and forth.

Rudder oversensitivity can add to the problem and I would suggest making some modifications to the input curve in the configuration screen.

R_Target
06-11-2006, 09:20 AM
The only fix I've found for the lopsided recoil kick is flying 4.01. Just switch the file "files.sfs" for whichever version you want to fly. Hopefully they will fix this problem, but it's been four months and a huge thread in the ready room (ignored, natch) so I'm not holding my breath.

Kernow
06-11-2006, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
...
With the 4.03/4.04 patches, a varied firing rate was built into wing mounted .50s intended to alleviate this, but on selected USN fighters, someone put all the faster firing guns on one wing, and all the slower firing guns in the other, leading to an even more pronounced gunfire waggle...

cheers

horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
I'd say you had to be joking, but clearly they really did do that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

In original PF I really liked the stability of the Corsair as a gun platform, but that seems a long time ago now.

VW-IceFire
06-11-2006, 05:38 PM
The trouble so far has been getting the developer to realize there is a problem. Its a bit like the MG round issue...they didn't believe till someone hit them with a hammer and then they realized its been wrong all this time.

bird_brain
06-11-2006, 08:13 PM
For Oleg & his crew, admitting it is wrong is the same as committing to fixing it. That's not neseccarily a bad thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You could try flying the F4U1-C http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

stansdds
06-12-2006, 03:56 AM
Yeah, any fighter that was associated with the U.S. Navy (F2A, F4F, FM2, F6F, and F4U) have hugely assymetrical firing rates on the machine guns with the guns in one wing firing much faster than the guns in the opposite wing. The result is a yaw when you open fire. Oleg has declared this to be "a feature" of these aircraft, not a bug, so it will likely never be addressed. Thank you for your interest in the Pacific war, now go back to the Eastern Front where planes are more durable and do not suffer from such problems. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

VW-IceFire
06-12-2006, 03:06 PM
I don't think anyone sufficiently explained to him what the problem was. The feature and the bug are related but not the same.

BTW: The IL-2 suffers from excessive yaw from firing its guns as well. All models...even the earlier ones with a pair of 20mm cannons.

|CoB|_Spectre
06-12-2006, 05:17 PM
Bottom line: The broken "feature" set of the U.S. Navy/Marine fighters is what we've got and likely all we're going to get. I know this is true for those of us who opted to forego the Pe-2 addon. The promised free maps (Burma, Slovakia) will require the price of two somewhat limited addons, although the Manchuria map will be missed. For me, it's the end of the road for this series and any potential fix for such things as the gun-induced yaw "feature" is simply not worth $40 bucks...especially since it might well introduce other problems that aren't broken as of v4.04m.

VW-Icefire wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The trouble so far has been getting the developer to realize there is a problem. Its a bit like the MG round issue...they didn't believe till someone hit them with a hammer and then they realized its been wrong all this time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It should be as simple as applying the "feature" model to any of the VVS aircraft. That should instantly define whether it is a desirable or undesirable effect. If it's such a good thing, why not spread it around to all the aircraft, don't just let USN/USMC drivers have all the fun.

PACACE
06-13-2006, 02:51 PM
To Bogusheadbox: Do you know of any other mods I can make to the config file that will effect stuff? I find myself more able all the time.

VW-IceFire
06-13-2006, 04:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by |CoB|_Spectre:
Bottom line: The broken "feature" set of the U.S. Navy/Marine fighters is what we've got and likely all we're going to get. I know this is true for those of us who opted to forego the Pe-2 addon. The promised free maps (Burma, Slovakia) will require the price of two somewhat limited addons, although the Manchuria map will be missed. For me, it's the end of the road for this series and any potential fix for such things as the gun-induced yaw "feature" is simply not worth $40 bucks...especially since it might well introduce other problems that aren't broken as of v4.04m.

VW-Icefire wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The trouble so far has been getting the developer to realize there is a problem. Its a bit like the MG round issue...they didn't believe till someone hit them with a hammer and then they realized its been wrong all this time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It should be as simple as applying the "feature" model to any of the VVS aircraft. That should instantly define whether it is a desirable or undesirable effect. If it's such a good thing, why not spread it around to all the aircraft, don't just let USN/USMC drivers have all the fun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its obviously your choice as a consumer to make the decision as to what you want and do not want to buy. As a firm advocate of being an informed consumer in every way possible I'm glad that you seem to have weighed the options and made a conscious decision. I disagree with it and have enjoyed the additions that Pe-2 adds to the game but thats my person opinion and I respect yours.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "feature" model you're talking about. If you mean applying the unsyncronized tracers to all aircraft then I suspect that will not be done because they have to modify each plane to do it. As it was, it sounds like it was significant to modify each US plane to have it. This is done on the request of the fanbase and they got it and I did warn that this would become an issue again just as it was an issue in the beginning but people tend not to listen to anything I say.

If you mean applying features in general like detailed DM models...that takes even more work as some models don't have the necessary hooks to them to understand what the game engine wants of it. This is why I'm very much infavour of Oleg's plan with Storm of War starting over from scratch in terms of the models and not importing all of the old models like many on the forum have suggested. A fresh start will be very beneficial in this regard.

bird_brain
06-13-2006, 09:50 PM
For those interested, I have been flying the Hellcat often lately, and just installed the Pe-2 addon yesterday. The machine gun induced yaw is gone now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Thanks Oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Sillius_Sodus
06-13-2006, 11:17 PM
R_Target,

Ok, so I've changed my "files.sfs" file to the one in version 4.01 and the Corsair wobbles are gone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif, but what else is affected in the sim? Are there any negative consequences of changing this file to an older version?

Thanks,
Sillius_Sodus

P.S. If anyone else knows, please let me know.

|CoB|_Spectre
06-14-2006, 03:01 AM
The "feature" is a direct quotation from an Oleg post when someone asked about the gun-induced yaw being a bug and he responded that it wasn't a bug, it was a feature. Shortly thereafter, a considerable discussion in these forums made salient points concerning the magnitude and effect of the desynchronization on the USN and USMC aircraft. The USAAF aircraft do not seem affected anywhere near as much, so it's not the US aircraft overall. Moreover, the P-40M supposedly has desynced as well, but consider its gun/yaw against the Wildcat, Hellcat, or Corsair. I don't peruse these boards as much as I used to, so news of BoB starting afresh with all modeling could be good news. As to the BoB series, I am witholding a decision on whether to buy. If we're going to have a western Europe devoid of US aircraft, I don't have much interest. Let us hope Maddox Games and Ubi can achieve what other software companies seem to be doing regarding depiction of US aircraft. A PTO devoid of torpedo bombers is bad enough, an ETO without US aircraft would be ridiculous.

lowfighter
06-14-2006, 03:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
R_Target,

Ok, so I've changed my "files.sfs" file to the one in version 4.01 and the Corsair wobbles are gone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif, but what else is affected in the sim? Are there any negative consequences of changing this file to an older version?

Thanks,
Sillius_Sodus

P.S. If anyone else knows, please let me know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you use "files.sfs" form 4.01 then you do fly version 4.01 of the game. No new Aircraft, no new maps no new ground objects etc coming with post-4.01 patches (4.02 etc) will show up in the game...unfortunately.

R_Target
06-14-2006, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lowfighter:
If you use "files.sfs" form 4.01 then you do fly version 4.01 of the game. No new Aircraft, no new maps no new ground objects etc coming with post-4.01 patches (4.02 etc) will show up in the game...unfortunately. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. I keep 4.05 files.sfs in a folder in my IL2/PF folder and switch them if I want to fly any of the newer additions.

It would be pretty tough to check convergence in Maddox's Corsair.

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/6628/scan00114bs.jpg

juryman03
06-14-2006, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bird_brain:
For those interested, I have been flying the Hellcat often lately, and just installed the Pe-2 addon yesterday. The machine gun induced yaw is gone now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Thanks Oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can anyone confirm this is true. I'm particularly interested in the gun problem with the Corsair. This would be great news for me. I'd get the Pe-2 addon in a heartbeat just for this fix.

Skeet2005
06-14-2006, 05:57 AM
What's PE-2???

joeap
06-14-2006, 06:00 AM
First task when I get home is that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

Oh and PE-2 is the new pay addon that brings the sim up to 4.05

Skeet2005
06-14-2006, 07:20 AM
where can it be found,PE-2? what does it add? like I stated earlier, I purchased the DVD "complete" version, and I am waiting for that to come, is this something else I should "need"???? THanks!

berg417448
06-14-2006, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skeet2005:
where can it be found,PE-2? what does it add? like I stated earlier, I purchased the DVD "complete" version, and I am waiting for that to come, is this something else I should "need"???? THanks! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some info:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9691071834

bird_brain
06-14-2006, 09:06 AM
See for yourself....When I installed Pe-2, I saved the 4.04m version.

I have saved a track with identical situations in the QMB in 4.04m & 4.05m. I have an F4U1-A vs an L2D @ 1000 meters. Approach is almost identical, and gunnery is by me, not the A.I. These shots were all taken with my feet completely off the rudder pedals.

The 1st series of screens are from 4.04m. The initial images at 14 seconds demonstrate how firing all guns actually yaws the plane to starboard faster than the enemy AC is approaching.

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_1.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_2.jpg

I released the trigger and lined up again. I then fired another 1 second burst. The plane yawed and pulled the shots off target to the right again.

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_3.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_4.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_5.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_6.jpg


I then fired one more burst with the same result. This is consistent and repeatable as we all know. Holding down the trigger continues the side slip and makes it quite difficult to hit the target.

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_7.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_8.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_9.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_10.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/404_11.jpg


Then I fired up 4.05m and flew the exact same mission in the QMB. Here is a 2 second burst with the trigger held down.

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/405_1.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/405_2.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/405_3.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/405_4.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/405_5.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/405_6.jpg

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/405_7.jpg

I got a fuel leak from both wings on that pass.

Here are the .ntrk files if you want to have a look.
Yaw Tracks.zip (http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/Yaw_Tracks.zip)

If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what to say. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

lowfighter
06-14-2006, 09:55 AM
Hey Bird Brain I'm convinced! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I don't have 4.05.
line deleted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sillius_Sodus
06-14-2006, 12:19 PM
Thanks lowfighter,

Depending on which campaign I fly, I'll just change sfs files as appropriate. Pretty easy to do.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

joeap
06-14-2006, 12:27 PM
Dudes I tried it...4.05 solves it! The Corsair and Hellcat are solid gun platforms again!

Corsair_Fanatic
06-14-2006, 02:36 PM
I guess this means I need to download the Pe-2 expansion.

|CoB|_Spectre
06-14-2006, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by juryman03:
I'd get the Pe-2 addon in a heartbeat just for this fix. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eureka! I can see a whole new marketing philosophy in the offing. It goes something like this:

I'll issue a patch with some fixes and/or addon content. Along with it I'll introduce an undesireable effect in a portion of the aircraft. When the bug has gained sufficient notariety, I'll offer a pay-for addon that will include a fix for the previously introduced feature and you'll be more than happy to cough up the money.

Obviously that's not what happened in this sim, as evidenced by the fact that there was no mention of the fix as an enticement to buy the addon. However, to an unscrupulous developer, it would provide a built-in problem/solution pipeline, would it not? Thank goodness our beloved provider does not operate this way.

shinden1974
06-14-2006, 04:52 PM
It's true, wow.

The USN planes don't yaw anymore in 4.05...

kind of stinks because I was one the AI whiners...oh well, might as well get used to it. I was just starting to enjoy LOMAC too...

hkg36sd
06-16-2006, 12:23 AM
You know, I never really noticed this 'yawing' feature of the guns 'cause I never really flew 6-gun US Fighters. When I had the merged installed, I flew mostly Brit FB and the Russian and German Fighters. Now, I just have PF installed and (as I have always found the Early Pacific Theatre fascinating) usually fly the F4F-3/A6M2. I read more about the ambiguous 'fixed'/'not fixed' and as I have not gotten into a 6-gun in a while, I did a few quick missions. The 'yaw' (4.04) is definitely there. Yet it seems prevalent in only the 6 wing gunned fighters - strangely, not so much if at all in the F6F-3/6 or the P-40E/M - but anything with the additional two .50 in the wings - F4F-4 included - has this 'yaw' on firing. Get in the P-51B or the Mustang III and presto! steady platform! (again 4.04)

Then again, a steady gun platform does you no good if you can't get the guns on target!!

joeap
06-16-2006, 03:37 AM
Well, all I can say is both the Corsair and Hellcat are better for me. I would say the Hellcat is steadier than the Corsair, I think it would just be a matter of doing what Kocur suggested and changing gun order would solve it.

hkg36sd
06-16-2006, 06:29 PM
Fly a full campaign in the F4F-3 (Wake Island is good, mostly Interceptions where you spend most of the time resolving lead/firing solutions) then try the Corsair. Maybe I'm lucky that I stick with the early Pacific (offline)!!

I've noticed that there are MANY variables that affect the platform stability. Take the FM-2 for instance. It is a very 'different' Wildcat from the F4F-3/4 in the way it flies and the way it behaves when firing (strangely, it 'yaws'!!). It has guns in same position as the -3. Added torque from the additional 150hp? I dunno.
Get really used to one aircraft and when you try any of the others, each feels very different (just firing guns mind you).

Well, for the sake of all you Corsair flyboys, I hope it's 'fixed' (soon?)
I actually use the yaw to rake my target..now if only the .50 did more damage...but thats another topic! LOL!

VW-IceFire
06-17-2006, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by |CoB|_Spectre:
The "feature" is a direct quotation from an Oleg post when someone asked about the gun-induced yaw being a bug and he responded that it wasn't a bug, it was a feature. Shortly thereafter, a considerable discussion in these forums made salient points concerning the magnitude and effect of the desynchronization on the USN and USMC aircraft. The USAAF aircraft do not seem affected anywhere near as much, so it's not the US aircraft overall. Moreover, the P-40M supposedly has desynced as well, but consider its gun/yaw against the Wildcat, Hellcat, or Corsair. I don't peruse these boards as much as I used to, so news of BoB starting afresh with all modeling could be good news. As to the BoB series, I am witholding a decision on whether to buy. If we're going to have a western Europe devoid of US aircraft, I don't have much interest. Let us hope Maddox Games and Ubi can achieve what other software companies seem to be doing regarding depiction of US aircraft. A PTO devoid of torpedo bombers is bad enough, an ETO without US aircraft would be ridiculous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The reason Oleg stated it was a feature was, at least I think, because he did not understand what they were trying to get at. I think its much like the mine shell issue where something was assumed correct and was in some cases but not others. A look into the problem by his team revealed the true nature of the problem and it was fixed. Don't be disheartened because of what you read there. I don't think its been made clear what the problem is yet...when we do I think we'll see this fixed. This WAS a problem on the P-47 and P-40 when they were part of the game early after FB was released. Exactly the same problem. Oleg looked into it and fixed the issue. The P-51 inhereted the close look and attention to fire rates on either side of the aircraft. In AEP the tracers were synced and other aircraft ceased to get the careful syncronization of fire rates and no further attention was paid to it.

So now its a problem again. And we just need to present it properly.

As for the ETO devoid of US aircraft...not going to happen. The Q&A period with SimHQ asked just such a question...they had legal advice to include factory numbers or nicknames like P-47 and "Thunderbolt" but no manufacturer names (like Republic). SO...they said this was no longer a problem for the new product (I suspect a deal with the old product precludes anything more for PF).

It'd be pretty hard to go to the Med as they said they plan without the vast quantities of P-40s alongside the Spitfires and Hurricanes.

willsim1946
06-17-2006, 11:26 AM
I belong to an organization which has many WW2 pilots and air crew members in it. I was recently talking to a P-38 pilot who also was able to fly a p-47 an a ground attack mission. I asked him if the p-47 was a good gun platform. He indicated that it was and replied to my question about yah caused be firing the guns. He indicated the he didn't experience this and didn't have any problems hitting the targets he was aiming at. He also indicated that the p-38s were brought into Burma because the p-51s could not climb to altitude fast enough to intercept the Japanese bombers. He indecated that when the P-38s reached 23,000ft. the P-51s were still at 17,000ft.

stansdds
06-17-2006, 11:34 AM
I think the P-38 has always had a reputation of being a fast climber, it should with two engines. I once knew a P-38 pilot, he said it was the best fighter in the USAAF. He flew them in Europe. Sadly, he is now departed from this world.

willsim1946
06-17-2006, 05:03 PM
I've been able to talk to three P-38 pilots over the last couple of years and they all agree with that statement. One flew J's in the Mediterranean theater he stated that the only way an axis fighter could get away from a 38 once on its tail was to split-s away if he had enough altutide. He ended the war as an ace. The other two flew in the Pacific and Southeast Asia. Both indicated that thay could turn with any Japanese fighter but would not stay in the the turn more than 300% as it was to dangerous as they didn't usually know where his buddies might be.

VW-IceFire
06-18-2006, 07:43 AM
It all sounds about right. P-38s are so easy, even with a bombload, to just throttle it up and point the nose skywards and outclimb just about everyone else on your team trying to grab altitude. The P-38 is also surprisingly good in a turn. I've surprised more than one 109 by following him. The biggest problem for a P-38 to stay on the 6 of someone is the roll delay...its just harder to get the bigger plane to rapidly change its bank. Makes sense too.

|CoB|_Spectre
06-18-2006, 09:07 AM
I've always employed flaps "as needed" for the purpose of stall avoidance. If you're just using them for landing approach, you're overlooking a fantastic flight control beyond mere combat flaps. It doesn't matter if you're inverted and climbing, if you're getting close to stall, flaps will create lift and help to give you that edge you need to stay in the fight. I've managed to maintain controlled flight with full flaps at all attitudes at airspeeds below 100mph, they're that much help. The L model's dive flaps can also tighten a turn tremendously or help get the nose up and on a target that may have a tighter turn radius. A word of caution on using dive flaps to augment turns, be sure to retract them at the first sign of stall onset. Otherwise they exacerbate the stall/spin and make recovery far more difficult.

Regarding the 38's slower initial roll rate, try leading the roll with rudder input, it seems to help get the big bird going into the roll.

VW-IceFire
06-18-2006, 09:22 AM
Yep...I use all of those techniques. I've been using the rudder to help with rolls for a long time. I feel that I get a very good response from planes like the P-38...responses that most people seem to miss. It just all seems pretty natural to me...having read about the plane.

But those are excellent suggestions and I highly recommend using all of those techniques to help with flying. They can be useful in any plane.

I have had alot of fun 1 on 1 dueling (just by random chance) against smaller and supposedly more agile aircraft like 109s and 190s using the P-38. The 38 has alot of power and you can stall fight them when they think they can stall fight you.

willsim1946
06-18-2006, 06:32 PM
I know this is off topic but I'll throw it out anyway. About a year ago myself and a small group had dinner with a guest speaker for our organization. He was a German FW190 JABO pilot who served on the Eastern Front toward the end of the war. I asked him about the visibility out of the cockpit knowing about the controversy that had taken place on this web site. He seemed surprised by the question indicating that it was fine. I asked him specifically about foward visibility and he responded that it was never an issue. I then explained to him why I had asked the question and he just smiled and shrugged his shoulders. As the war was ending he and his best friend left the airbase and walked to the west and surrendered to the Americans.

Kernow
06-19-2006, 09:02 AM
As you've gone off topic...

I read this a while back and was tempted to post it, but decided not to as:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>there have been dozens & dozens of threads on 190 forward viz' &

it had probably been posted before in one of those threads[/list]
Anyway, of the Fw-190, 'The sighting view is approximately half a ring better than that from the Spitfire.' Taken from the RAF evaluation of the 190 which landed at Pembrey (my italics). Chance of a fix? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Yeah, thought so.

willsim1946
06-19-2006, 01:59 PM
That was pretty much where I was as I could see it wasn't going to do any good. As a result I rarely fly FW190's with cockpit on. The P-38 pilot who ended the war as an ace told me that he was always amazed at the amount of damage a three second burst from his P-38 would do to the axis aircraft he shot down. If they didn't explod or lose a wing the plane would just be shredded, or shot to pieces. He made most of his kills from the six without the axis pilot knowing he was there. During one dogfight an Italian pilot bailed out before he was shot down.

gomer68
09-27-2006, 06:43 PM
From what i've read so far
The Pe-2 add-on is intended for the merged versions of the game.

I take it that this leaves the PF standalone stuck with the screwed up guns?

If this is so then those of us who own that game will have choices to make.
1.Spend a lot of money to get the other games (games that we might not have wanted to get to begin with)
2. continue to play the game and avoid the 6 mg corsairs and hellcats.
3. Stop playing the game and go elsewhere.
or 4. crack the script and fix it ourselves.

Skeet2005
09-27-2006, 07:19 PM
the PE-2 I do not think fixed the Corsair's wobbling gunfire, let me be clear about that. I bought it and hoped it would. I fought with boonty-box for a month to try to remove it (yes I succeeded)... strangely now all my allied planes wear russian stars when fighing in european theater.... How to fix that???!! and I think the Corsair is still terrible. As is my beloved Hellcat. Oh, well.

VW-IceFire
09-27-2006, 07:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gomer68:
From what i've read so far
The Pe-2 add-on is intended for the merged versions of the game.

I take it that this leaves the PF standalone stuck with the screwed up guns?

If this is so then those of us who own that game will have choices to make.
1.Spend a lot of money to get the other games (games that we might not have wanted to get to begin with)
2. continue to play the game and avoid the 6 mg corsairs and hellcats.
3. Stop playing the game and go elsewhere.
or 4. crack the script and fix it ourselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As mentioned...Pe-2 doesn't change anything on the guns of the Hellcat or Corsair. Its not catastrophic although its a bit annoying.

Its also sort of hard for them to give you guys Pe-2 without all of the rest of the content (seeing as the Pe-2 content is over Forgotten Battles territory). How should that go down?

shinden1974
09-27-2006, 08:54 PM
Let's be honest here.

Oleg and co. are great guys but honestly they do not take the guns issue on the USN/USMC planes very seriously and that's the bottom line.

A quick patch was made to fix the mosquito and a light on the do335. Fixes were done on emergency mode in the past to fix errors in flight modeling of other aircraft in the past.

Put a MG induced yaw on the BF109, Spitfire, 'stang, Fw190 and watch the bile and screaming on this board fly along with a quick patch to address serious issues.

People have whined for their favorite boost version, and got it fast. They've whined for little changes on their favorite planes, piling on with 'we want (insert cosmetic visual change)" and have sometimes gotten their wish.

The guys who love these PTO planes have been polite and patient and their reward has been a paid fix. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different If we had created a 10 page flame-fest complete with PO'd crazyIvan, bans and personal insults at oleg...this has caused minor issues to be addresed in the past...good lord.

I'm buying SOM. I'm not sure about '46, everytime I see the newest screenshots I'm more pissed off at the incredibly obvious yaw on the USN planes that not only is not fixed, but no one seems to really care about. It's not even worth a quick drop in with "we are aware and will fix"

VFS-214_Hawk
09-29-2006, 07:12 PM
Whats SOM?

VW-IceFire
09-29-2006, 08:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shinden1974:
Let's be honest here.

Oleg and co. are great guys but honestly they do not take the guns issue on the USN/USMC planes very seriously and that's the bottom line.

A quick patch was made to fix the mosquito and a light on the do335. Fixes were done on emergency mode in the past to fix errors in flight modeling of other aircraft in the past.

Put a MG induced yaw on the BF109, Spitfire, 'stang, Fw190 and watch the bile and screaming on this board fly along with a quick patch to address serious issues.

People have whined for their favorite boost version, and got it fast. They've whined for little changes on their favorite planes, piling on with 'we want (insert cosmetic visual change)" and have sometimes gotten their wish.

The guys who love these PTO planes have been polite and patient and their reward has been a paid fix. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different If we had created a 10 page flame-fest complete with PO'd crazyIvan, bans and personal insults at oleg...this has caused minor issues to be addresed in the past...good lord.

I'm buying SOM. I'm not sure about '46, everytime I see the newest screenshots I'm more pissed off at the incredibly obvious yaw on the USN planes that not only is not fixed, but no one seems to really care about. It's not even worth a quick drop in with "we are aware and will fix" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Mosquito was a very serious problem with the damage model being in the wrong place. So misses to the plane caused damage. That was a problem. Once apon a time the Bf109's suddenly had a broken rudder that refused to work. That was pretty serious.

The boost versions took months and sometimes years of sending in information for them to happen. Some of them had information sent in a long time ago before PF was even in sight and they only appeared more recently.

Most of the other things have been ignored...so to be perfectly honest I think you've got a narrow view of whats gone on here. Its a problem but its not catastrophic and I think its being made into a mountain out of a molehill. I've done the testing...I've even sent in the tracks to the PF Bug Report e-mail. So I've done my part. But it doesn't keep me up at night either and I love flying the .50cal armed Corsairs and Hellcats online. They are so much fun to fly and fight in! So I really don't see why its got some people so riled up.

There is a fix coming thats a bonus in some of the other stuff we're getting. We really didn't have to get any of this stuff at all. They could have released it and dropped it at PF3.0 like most game developers do but these guys keep delivering. Sometimes its free (alot of the time it is) and sometimes its not.

Thats my bit. I derive enjoyment of the game and the aircraft in question...problems or not...they don't ruin the aircraft for me.

SOM is Stumoviks over Manchuria AKA the IL-10 addon.

gomer68
10-01-2006, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As mentioned...Pe-2 doesn't change anything on the guns of the Hellcat or Corsair. Its not catastrophic although its a bit annoying.

Its also sort of hard for them to give you guys Pe-2 without all of the rest of the content (seeing as the Pe-2 content is over Forgotten Battles territory). How should that go down?[/QUOTE]

The problem with the Corsair/Helcat guns are bad enough that i no longer fly them on ground attack missions.

One simply can't walk the bullet stream onto the AAA guns with the guns kicking the plane to the right the way it does.
note: IRL the F4U-1 did not have bombracks until the squadrons fabricated their own and copies of these were sent to Vought and they manufactured and shipped them as field kits to the F4U-1A squadrons.


It would be possible via simple patch.
One that would alter or replace the files that contained the gun scripts.
You would be changing the Flight Model and not adding maps other planes.

I've seen this done on other games.
Namely Neverwinter Nights.
NWN has one core game and 2 expansion packs.

The Core game has the combat and game engine (the plane's flight and damage models).
The expansion pack has the extra content, missions, prestige class (think extra planes)

The game can be patched to it's current 1.68 version with without having to have all the expansions.
In addition there is a free Community expansion pack which has new skins for player and npc heads, tursos, clothing, weapons, objects and effects.

One can patch the core game form ver 1.0 to 1.68 with or without any the exppansions using a single cumulative patch

Now PF is not an open sourced program, this however does not mean it can't be re-written by an end-user/s who have the time, know how, dedication and love for this game.

Proof of this are the flight som programs EAW (European Air War) and Falcon 4.0.
Both of these were modified and patched by their player communities.
New maps, flyable planes, missions and campaigns were added after the publisher abandoned these progams.

AFJ_Locust
10-01-2006, 08:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stansdds:
The result is a yaw when you open fire. Oleg has declared this to be "a feature" of these aircraft, not a bughttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HAHA a feature

slappedsilly
10-02-2006, 03:48 PM
I'm an American and I can't see the big deal about the American planes being messed up in the game. I just get a plane that does better. Get the La-7, now that plane can FLY! Americans have all the best planes in real life, let someone else have a turn in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Philipscdrw
10-02-2006, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gomer68:
...
It would be possible via simple patch.
One that would alter or replace the files that contained the gun scripts.
You would be changing the Flight Model and not adding maps other planes.

I've seen this done on other games.
Namely Neverwinter Nights.
NWN has one core game and 2 expansion packs.

The Core game has the combat and game engine (the plane's flight and damage models).
The expansion pack has the extra content, missions, prestige class (think extra planes)

The game can be patched to it's current 1.68 version with without having to have all the expansions.
In addition there is a free Community expansion pack which has new skins for player and npc heads, tursos, clothing, weapons, objects and effects.

One can patch the core game form ver 1.0 to 1.68 with or without any the exppansions using a single cumulative patch

Now PF is not an open sourced program, this however does not mean it can't be re-written by an end-user/s who have the time, know how, dedication and love for this game.

Proof of this are the flight som programs EAW (European Air War) and Falcon 4.0.
Both of these were modified and patched by their player communities.
New maps, flyable planes, missions and campaigns were added after the publisher abandoned these progams. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FB doesn't work like that. It wasn't designed with expansion in mind. SaSQoN (who's a developer I think, and understands how the FB program works) has explained in the past that, if I install Patch A and then Patch B, and you install Patch B before Patch A, we won't be compatible online, and there's no way to fix this without rewriting the entire program. (He said that each aircraft in the sim has a number, and the numbers make a consecutive series, and there can't be any gaps or the sim won't work. So if I install a P-61 addon then a B-17 addon, and you install the B-17 first then the P-61, we won't be using the same program any more and won't be compatible online).

Programming is fun, but it's a lot, lot more complicated than it looks!

And if you think they should, now, rewrite the code, they are - it's called BoB! They don't have time to fix everything in FB (although I agree that the gun yaw problem is very important, and really hope it gets fixed).

And the guys who are upset at having to pay for fixes by buying the addons, do you really believe you're getting poor value for money from the FB series?

And the guy who won't buy BoB because 'it's stupid to model the ETO without American aircraft':
- it wasn't the ETO, it was the only theatre of operations. America wasn't interested in war during 1940.
- American aircraft did fight in the conflict, but for other air-forces. In order of historical importance and developer whim they'll be added to the series, hopefully!

Lewicide
10-04-2006, 06:09 AM
My 4.05 yaws on firing with the wildcat, Corsair and Hellcat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

KIMURA
10-04-2006, 07:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slappedsilly:
I'm an American and I can't see the big deal about the American planes being messed up in the game. I just get a plane that does better. Get the La-7, now that plane can FLY! Americans have all the best planes in real life, let someone else have a turn in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The statement that US a/c are messed-up seems to oversubscribed to me, because their opponents are "messed-up" too. So the relation is correct.The wobbling effect is dusturbing I agree.

As for the classical contrahents A6M2 vs.F4F-3/4 the Grumman seems to be modelled very optimistic - too optimistic. I can outrun a Model 21 at any altitude and outclimb a Model 21 if my climb stays fast and very shallow - two field events off of realism. Online the Grumman F4F-3/4 clearly a first hand chose over the Zero. A thing that is not realistic.

my statement relates to human driven a/c not AI.

R_Target
10-04-2006, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KIMURA:
As for the classical contrahents A6M2 vs.F4F-3/4 the Grumman seems to be modelled very optimistic - too optimistic. I can outrun a Model 21 at any altitude and outclimb a Model 21 if my climb stays fast and very shallow - two field events off of realism. Online the Grumman F4F-3/4 clearly a first hand chose over the Zero. A thing that is not realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, but I think the problem is undermodeled A6M, not overmodeled Wildcat. Maybe the Wildcat climbs too fast, I haven't really checked.

Lewicide
10-04-2006, 07:19 AM
Swapped the 4.01 sfs for the 4.05 sfs

no gun wobbles......but better not fly the P-39 and lose your engine.

I'll swap the two sfs's depending on what I want to fly.

Best bet until it's fixed.

VW-IceFire
10-04-2006, 09:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KIMURA:
As for the classical contrahents A6M2 vs.F4F-3/4 the Grumman seems to be modelled very optimistic - too optimistic. I can outrun a Model 21 at any altitude and outclimb a Model 21 if my climb stays fast and very shallow - two field events off of realism. Online the Grumman F4F-3/4 clearly a first hand chose over the Zero. A thing that is not realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, but I think the problem is undermodeled A6M, not overmodeled Wildcat. Maybe the Wildcat climbs too fast, I haven't really checked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah I think the Wildcat has been shown to perform normally. Its the Zero thats a bit off.

Still...the Zero is a extremely dangerous opponent to a Wildcat if not properly flown. I've had no problem chasing down Wildcats in a close in battle.

Nimits
10-04-2006, 09:06 PM
Well, the Zero was not all that fast, really, and the straight line speed difference between it and the Wildcat was negligible at all altitudes. Whichever plane stared in the best energy position was going to dictate the fight. Even in game, it will be rare indeed for and F4F to simply run out of trouble.

But yes, it seems the A6M may be a bit too slow in the game.

But the US aircraft being "messed up" in this case refers to the bug that causes USN fighters to yaw badly when their guns are fired. Hopefully this will be fixed in 4.06 or 4.08.