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hornetjockey
04-13-2010, 02:52 PM
Ubisoft, your track record for fun games is amazing. You were the little guy who made it to the top by making great games.

Now you have instituted a DRM scheme that once again punishes only the paying customers, while pirates play your games DRM-free.

Systems like Steam prove that DRM can work when it is relatively seamless to the consumer, but troublesome DRM will only serve to tarnish your reputation and further kill off the struggling market of PC gaming.

I wish I could enjoy the new Splinter Cell, but relying on consumer broadband services to provide a constant connection to your DRM servers, booting players and losing saved data when the connection is lost, it is simply unacceptable.

If you release your games on Steam with only Valve's DRM, I will buy the game, but not until then.

I truly cannot understand how it is rationalized to hold a paying customer's game hostage when their Internet connection is not available. You know your DRM will be cracked. It ALWAYS is. The least you could do is appease the people who pay to play and make yourselves less of a target to hackers by instituting something more palatable.

I know no one of any importance at Ubisoft is likely to read this, but I had to get it off my chest.

A Ubisoft game will never touch my hard drive until you learn to have some respect for the paying customer. I will be voting with my wallet and I sincerely hope that others will follow suit.

hornetjockey
04-13-2010, 02:52 PM
Ubisoft, your track record for fun games is amazing. You were the little guy who made it to the top by making great games.

Now you have instituted a DRM scheme that once again punishes only the paying customers, while pirates play your games DRM-free.

Systems like Steam prove that DRM can work when it is relatively seamless to the consumer, but troublesome DRM will only serve to tarnish your reputation and further kill off the struggling market of PC gaming.

I wish I could enjoy the new Splinter Cell, but relying on consumer broadband services to provide a constant connection to your DRM servers, booting players and losing saved data when the connection is lost, it is simply unacceptable.

If you release your games on Steam with only Valve's DRM, I will buy the game, but not until then.

I truly cannot understand how it is rationalized to hold a paying customer's game hostage when their Internet connection is not available. You know your DRM will be cracked. It ALWAYS is. The least you could do is appease the people who pay to play and make yourselves less of a target to hackers by instituting something more palatable.

I know no one of any importance at Ubisoft is likely to read this, but I had to get it off my chest.

A Ubisoft game will never touch my hard drive until you learn to have some respect for the paying customer. I will be voting with my wallet and I sincerely hope that others will follow suit.

VirOn2008
04-13-2010, 06:23 PM
If your into the stealth genre then all is not lost, you could always wait until Alpha Protocol hits selves (unless it is an Xbox 360 exclusive)

BountDoom
04-13-2010, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
A Ubisoft game will never touch my hard drive until you learn to have some respect for the paying customer. I will be voting with my wallet and I sincerely hope that others will follow suit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I get DRM is quite annoying for alot of people, had some major problems with server crashes, and had certain customer issues. Though beyond that is anything else problematic? Is the "man" trying to keep us down by tracking everything we do in Splitner Cell?

I think I'm failing to understand the big, in my words, "[edit] YOU DRM," sitution here.

Personally I can go a few days without SC:C while servers reboot.

XX55XX
04-13-2010, 08:01 PM
The dissenters' words are starting to ring hollow.

GuZZ33
04-13-2010, 08:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
relying on consumer broadband services to provide a constant connection to your DRM servers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The possible problem has got nothing to do with home broadband internet service providers, the issues would be if ubisoft's master servers get overloaded or crashed through very high user demands, or, a segment of self-replicating code planted illegally in a computer program, often to damage or shut down a system or network.

Aj6627
04-13-2010, 08:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">DRM is quite annoying for alot of people, had some major problems with server crashes, and had certain customer issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those are big enough problems on their own.

hornetjockey
04-14-2010, 06:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BountDoom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
A Ubisoft game will never touch my hard drive until you learn to have some respect for the paying customer. I will be voting with my wallet and I sincerely hope that others will follow suit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I get DRM is quite annoying for alot of people, had some major problems with server crashes, and had certain customer issues. Though beyond that is anything else problematic? Is the "man" trying to keep us down by tracking everything we do in Splitner Cell?

I think I'm failing to understand the big, in my words, "[edit] YOU DRM," sitution here.

Personally I can go a few days without SC:C while servers reboot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not worried about Ubi tracking what I do in splinter cell, but I don't like the fact that an Internet connection is required to play a single player game, and that if my connection to the server should drop for any reason, I can no longer play the game, and may lose unsaved progress as well. I'm not sure why anyone would find this acceptable.

hornetjockey
04-14-2010, 06:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GuZZ33:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
relying on consumer broadband services to provide a constant connection to your DRM servers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The possible problem has got nothing to do with home broadband internet service providers, the issues would be if ubisoft's master servers get overloaded or crashed through very high user demands, or, a segment of self-replicating code planted illegally in a computer program, often to damage or shut down a system or network. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problems with Ubi's servers aside, consumer broadband is typically not stable enough to provide a seamless DRM experience.

Not to mention people gaming on laptops with no Internet connection and those people still on dial-up (yes, there are a lot).

GuZZ33
04-14-2010, 06:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
I'm not sure why anyone would find this acceptable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gone are the days when you could pop down your local video game shop, buy a pc game you want, install game, play game, yeah good times. Sign of the times, it's just the way it is in these days. Ubisofts ip protection policies don't bother me personaly one iota, but i can understand others grievance's with it.

MikDawg
04-14-2010, 08:00 AM
+1 to the original post, well said.

This system is absolutely stupid, I was looking forward to this game, but because of this I will not buy it.

GuZZ33
04-14-2010, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
consumer broadband is typically not stable enough to provide a seamless DRM experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I highly doubt that, can you show facts and figures for the whole of UK to back this statement up?.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
Not to mention people gaming on laptops with no Internet connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry but http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. On the road laptop gamers playing the latest AAA titles will be in the minority.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
people still on dial-up (yes, there are a lot). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lot of old folk on dial-up maybe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Again can you show facts and figures for the UK on this statement?. Most modern day UK gamers will be on high speed broadband always on connection.

MikDawg
04-14-2010, 10:44 AM
[if you have nothing constructive to add, please do not post.]

soron
04-14-2010, 05:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BountDoom:
I get DRM is quite annoying for alot of people, had some major problems with server crashes, and had certain customer issues. Though beyond that is anything else problematic? Is the "man" trying to keep us down by tracking everything we do in Splitner Cell?

I think I'm failing to understand the big, in my words, "[edit] YOU DRM," sitution here.

Personally I can go a few days without SC:C while servers reboot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well most people don't want to pay $60 USD + tax, for a game if there is any chance they will be denied access, with the great UBI support staff saying "....we will look into it.../ignore..."
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GuZZ33:
I'm sorry but http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. On the road laptop gamers playing the latest AAA titles will be in the minority.

A lot of old folk on dial-up maybe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Again can you show facts and figures for the UK on this statement?. Most modern day UK gamers will be on high speed broadband always on connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So its okay to discriminate against minorities? They are still paying customers.

GuZZ33
04-15-2010, 02:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by soron:
So its okay to discriminate against minorities? They are still paying customers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No discrimination.Anyones purchasing power is based on the information available, also read the small print http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . The decision to spend money or to purchase is at the discretion of the buyer.

Sypron
04-15-2010, 03:43 AM
I urge everyone here to read this

http://www.tweakguides.com/AC2_1.html

The first paragraph(s) are just about AC in general, you can ignore that if you want. The bulk of the article is about the DRM. I strongly reccomend that you read it.

hornetjockey
04-15-2010, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GuZZ33:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
consumer broadband is typically not stable enough to provide a seamless DRM experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I highly doubt that, can you show facts and figures for the whole of UK to back this statement up?.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
Not to mention people gaming on laptops with no Internet connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry but http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. On the road laptop gamers playing the latest AAA titles will be in the minority.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
people still on dial-up (yes, there are a lot). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lot of old folk on dial-up maybe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Again can you show facts and figures for the UK on this statement?. Most modern day UK gamers will be on high speed broadband always on connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm not going to spend time digging up facts and figures for something I know to be true. I have 10 years of experience working on Enterprise networks. I work for a team that proactively monitors thousands of DSL and cable connections throughout North and South America, as well as most of Western Europe. Broadband is not a stable platform. Surfing the web you may never notice, but running mission-critical applications across it, you definitely start to see its shortcomings.

We constantly have to remind our customers of the cost-benefit trade-off of using broadband as their primary network connection. Compared to dedicated connections such as ISDN and T1s, they just aren't as stable. Even when they don't go down, packet loss is prevalent. Requiring a constant connection over a connection that isn't constant is a poor design choice, whether it is running Citrix or the latest Ubisoft game.

Good DRM should be relatively seamless to paying customers, and this system clearly is not. If you want to spend money on a game that tells you when you can play, by all means go ahead. I will not be doing so.

It has been said that 35% of all Internet users in the US are still on dial-up. You want proof, go to Google.

hornetjockey
04-15-2010, 09:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikDawg:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Very cute. I came hear to seriously air my grievances toward Ubisoft's direction with DRM. I'm not trolling anyone.

GuZZ33
04-15-2010, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
I have 10 years of experience working on Enterprise networks. I work for a team that proactively monitors thousands of DSL and cable connections throughout North and South America, as well as most of Western Europe. Broadband is not a stable platform. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, i'm only just an end user for broadband and pc games, that's all, i'm no expert in this technology, i can only tell it like it is for me personaly. i understand others experiences differ from mild to greatly, what can i say?.

I have been using broadband since 1999 and i can't even remember the last time i had any major issues with gaming online that was directly linked to my broadband/ISP. My broadband speed has increased and i pay less money for the service, what can i say, it's been fantastic for me, no problems, the only problem i had was the price for broadband back then lol. But now it's at a fair price and faster than ever. Happy customer here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

I use microsofts Games For Windows LIVE on windows 7 64-Bit, and i know you can play games offline but i never do, i am always connected, always online with GFWL and i have never had a problem with this service with any game, never had one issue or problem.

I see Ubisofts always on service the same as Microsfts Games For Windows LIVE service, so i don't personaly have a problem with it.

By the way, i live in great britain england and maybe we just have a great broadband service, well, it's great for me and surely i can't be the only one, believe me, huh!, i'm not that fortunate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

For me personaly broadband is and always has been a stable platform, and i'm such a none tech dude that i didn't even know broadband was called a platform http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

GuZZ33
04-15-2010, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
If you want to spend money on a game that tells you when you can play, by all means go ahead. I will not be doing so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's your choice at the end of the day to not go ahead and purchase Splinter Cell Conviction or any future Ubisoft video game when it's available to buy, there is nothing wrong in that, your a free entity with a free will to make informed choices that suits your life based on the information all around you.

But i will spend my money buying Splinter Cell Conviction for the PC at the end of this month, and i will be playing the game when i want to http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

GuZZ33
04-15-2010, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sypron:
I urge everyone here to read this

http://www.tweakguides.com/AC2_1.html. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, very interesting read but what is sad though is that scumbag pirate pc gamers are killing pc gaming.

Vampire28
04-15-2010, 01:07 PM
Im in the UK and my broadband is slow and rubbish 50kbs MAX!!! Whoop.

But AC2 was fine, I had a couple of disconections but it soon sorted itself out again.

I guess lots of people use the router/modem that their ISP provided. I did for ages and it was c**p disconected every ten mins roughly, got a belkin router. Rock solid.

So yeah, SC:C I have high hopes for, looks fun if nothing else.

ForceReconNeo
04-17-2010, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
Not to mention people gaming on laptops with no Internet connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry but http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. On the road laptop gamers playing the latest AAA titles will be in the minority.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
people still on dial-up (yes, there are a lot). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lot of old folk on dial-up maybe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.[/QUOTE]

you should work for ubi and they can rob stupid people with the thought of "hey they're in the minority, who cares"...

funkmunky80
04-18-2010, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BountDoom:Personally I can go a few days without SC:C while servers reboot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you don't mind not being able to use a product you've bought and paid for? I suppose it's alright if you're born with a silver spoon up your jacksy... However if like most people you have to work for your money, situations like this are unnaceptable.

soron
04-18-2010, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by funkmunky80:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BountDoom:Personally I can go a few days without SC:C while servers reboot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you don't mind not being able to use a product you've bought and paid for? I suppose it's alright if you're born with a silver spoon up your jacksy... However if like most people you have to work for your money, situations like this are unnaceptable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly, well said! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

DenLui
04-20-2010, 09:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GuZZ33:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
consumer broadband is typically not stable enough to provide a seamless DRM experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I highly doubt that, can you show facts and figures for the whole of UK to back this statement up?.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
Not to mention people gaming on laptops with no Internet connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry but http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. On the road laptop gamers playing the latest AAA titles will be in the minority.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hornetjockey:
people still on dial-up (yes, there are a lot). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lot of old folk on dial-up maybe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Again can you show facts and figures for the UK on this statement?. Most modern day UK gamers will be on high speed broadband always on connection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


UK this... UK that... unlike you I think Ubisoft is smart enough to sell its product worldwide and not just in UK.

Sadly, not everyone has a high speed broadband like you people from your glorious UK. Some people are still on dial-up and I'm not talking about developing countries only.

I'm on broadband. It's decent but it isn't cable connection or T1.

Laptop sales are generally higher than Desktop computer. So in all fairness we are the minority. Making games laptop friendly would definitely increase sales.

Crimson_Tides
04-24-2010, 08:48 AM
Ignorance is such bliss, ain't it? So long as you don't have problems, there are no problems; Do you really want to ride that logic train wreck?

As DenLui pointed out, there are billions of people who do not live in the United Kingdom. To give but one tiny morsel of knowledge, start with this report (http://cwafiles.org/speedmatters/state_reports_2009/CWA_Report_on_Internet_Speeds_2009.pdf?nocdn=1). If you find it irrelevant (given it's about the US), put forth the tiniest effort and research the epic failures of broadband access for rural areas of the UK.

Oh, and if you think internet connectivity issues are limited to the rural areas of the planet, my personal experiences pop the whole urban *always on* internet bubble universe. I live in the third largest city in the Southeastern US, and not just in the outskirts, but downtown. The fastest internet speed available is 8Mbps, but it's highly unreliable and is down for several hours to a few days at a time at least once a month, every month. My second fastest option is DSL, but the maximum speed is 3Mbps. The reliability is higher (maybe once every couple months something interrupts my connection, but for no more than several hours), but I can only just barely stream low quality hulu videos (if I don't multitask. Oh, and the various wireless options are nonoptions, never mind the boost in download speed some would give). Combine that with hornetjockey's statements of fact regarding packet loss over DSL connections, making one's single player games internet-only affairs is akin to loading Vista onto the space shuttle.

Perhaps needless to say, but I need to say it: until such restrictive and irrational protection measures are removed, I will be purchasing no more games from Ubisoft. Before I heard about Ubisoft's new anti-customer policy, I had plans to purchase Assassin's Creed II, Splinter Cell: Conviction, I Am Alive, and Prince of Persia The Forgotten Sands. Tis sad pirates have more freedoms than paying customers.

Dread_stunlock
05-04-2010, 02:52 PM
And that Ladies and Gentelmen of the Ubisoft jury is not the only person that made a post like this.....-60$ - 120$ - 1000$ -1000 000$ each year ya.....