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View Full Version : Robert Johnson v Egon Mayer IL2 Movie. 8 pictures of work in progress. total 450k



Mysticpuma2003
04-22-2005, 07:03 AM
Hi guys, just thought I'd post a few stills from this movie I'm making. It's still got a long way to go (due to work committments and home life http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ), but I hope to put some video up soon.

Anyway in-case you don't know, it the story of how Robert s Johnson bought his Razorback home after Egon Mayer took three tries at bringing it down, eventually running out of ammo and saluting Johnson.

Here goes the:

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint1.jpg

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint2.jpg

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint3.jpg

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint4.jpg

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint5.jpg

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint6.jpg

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint7.jpg

httP://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/HalfPint8.jpg

Cheers, Puma.

dazza9806482
04-22-2005, 07:08 AM
That looks well cool Puma, how did u get the damage effects?

doesnt look like standard IL2 damage graphics..

or is it?

looking forward to it anyway, great story IMHO

Hristos
04-22-2005, 07:11 AM
Too many holes in that Jug. Way too many !

I mean, it was riddled and so, but in the state shown, it would desintegrate due to wind force alone. Also, both pilot and engine would most likely be dead.

If I remember, it had 20 20mm holes and some 200 7.92mm holes. The pic looks like way more 20mm holes. 7.92mm holes would barely be noticeable, maybe if you somehow incorporate it in plane skin ?

Also, wasn't damage mostly to the fuselage, not the wings ?

Don't want to sound harsh, just want you to improve the realism of your movie. Keep up the good work !

Cajun76
04-22-2005, 08:13 AM
From RSJ, in Thunderbolt!
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> There are twenty-one gaping holes and jagged tears in the metal from exploding 20mm cannon shells. I'm still standing in one place when my count of bullet holes reaches past a hundred; there's no use even trying to add them all. The Thunderbolt is literally a sieve, holes through the wings, fuselage and tail. Every square foot, it seems is covered with holes. There are five holes in the propeller. Three 20mm cannon shells burst against the armor plate, a scant inch away from my head. Five cannon shell holes in the right wing; four in the left wing. Two cannnon shells blasted away the lower half of my rudder. One shell exploded in the cockpit, next to my left hand; this is the blast that ripped away the flap handle. More holes appeared along the fuselage and in the tail. Behind the cockpit, the metal is twisted and curled; this had jammed the canopy, trapping me inside.

The airplane had done her best. Needless to say, she would never fly again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The "200 count" is also at a piont when they get tired of counting. Here is a decent account, but there's a better, more detailed one I can't find at the moment..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Swiveling constantly, he froze in horror as he spotted a plane approaching him, an Fw-190, beautifully painted in blue with a yellow cowling. Johnson was totally helpless, and just had to wait for the German to get him in his sights and open up. The German closed in, taking his time with the crippled American fighter. Johnson hunched down behind his armor-plated seat, to await the inevitable. The German opened up, spraying the plane with 30-caliber machine gun fire, not missing, just pouring lead into the battered Thunderbolt. Johnson kicked his rudder left and right, slowing his plane to a crawl, and fired back as the German sped out in front of him.

The Focke-Wulf easily avoided the gunfire from the half-blinded Johnson, and circled back, this time pulling level with him. The pilot examined the shattered Thunderbolt all over, looking it up and down, and shook his head in mystification. He banked, pulled up behind Johnson again, and opened up with another burst. Somehow the rugged Republic-built aircraft stayed in the air. The German pulled alongside again, as they approached the southern coast of the Channel. Still flying, Johnson realized how fortunate it was that the German found him after his heavy 20mm cannons were empty.

As they went out over the Channel, the German get behind and opened up again, but the P-47 kept flying. Then he pulled up alongside, rocked his wings in salute, and flew off, before they reached the English coast. Johnson had survived the incredible, point-blank machine gun fire, but still had to land the plane. He contacted Mayday Control by radio, who instructed him to climb if he can. The battered plane climbed, and after more communication, headed for his base at Manston. Landing was touch and go, as he had no idea if the landing gear would work. The wheels dropped down and locked and he landed safely. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When I was badly shot up on June 26, 1943, I had twenty-one 20mm cannon shells in that airplane, and more than 200 7.92mm machine-gun bullets. One nicked my nose and another entered my right leg, where the bullet split in half. I still have those two little pieces, by the way; they went in just under the skin. I had been hurt worse playing football and boxing. However, I had never been that scared, I'll tell you that. I was always scared--that was what made me move quick. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't wait for the finished product. The 56th are proud of our rugged mounts and are still at your disposal for resources and such, Puma. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif The "damage" looks like a skin. Perhaps the MG fire damage size could be toned down a bit though, and more of them, giving more of the "sieve" effect. Just an observation. Good luck, and thank you for your hard work!

carguy_
04-22-2005, 08:39 AM
I think you should avoid scenes that stand out as game scenes.I mean the FW190 cockpit form external,ruins the whole effect.

RedNeckerson
04-22-2005, 08:55 AM
There are a few different versions of Johnson's experience, if you know what I mean http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Also, it's only conjecture that Egon Meyer was in the FW190. Sorry.

You might want to check some actual photos of Johnson's a/c after it came down in England.

Roger Freeman's 56th FG unit history says Johnson's T-bolt took "at least 3 cannon shells and several rifle calibre bullets", and photos show quite a bit less damage than shown on your skin.

Not trying to discourage you at all, and I look forward to the well-done FB movies as they are very enjoyable to watch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Eagle_361st
04-22-2005, 09:42 AM
I have some pictures of this plane after the encounter. And I can tell you even from those, there is way more than just "some minor damage". Any other aircraft would have fallen from the sky with the amount damage done.

Cajun76
04-22-2005, 10:06 AM
http://rwebs.net/avhistory/history/p-47.htm

Brotrob
04-22-2005, 10:58 AM
Hello,

here's a pic of the Jug involveld in tat incident:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/brotrob/rsj4.jpg

Best Greetings

darkhorizon11
04-22-2005, 11:27 AM
Just wait for the waffles to come flying in on this! Wahhhh theres no way that Jug could still be flying and shoot down our Dora, not fair not fair! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Despite that fact that its only a movie for pure enjoyment...

Mysticpuma2003
04-22-2005, 01:16 PM
Guys it's not a problem really.

I have created about four different skins of damage levels.

I am grateful for your comments because I am working through this attack sequence at the moment, and by posting these pictures you help me work through the damage level.

Anyway, no harm done, I'll try a few different edits to get one that looks right,a nd I'll post a few shots here soon for comparison before I crack on with the final fight sequence.

Cheers, Puma.

Hristos
04-22-2005, 01:40 PM
Also, you may want to ask experienced skinners like how to make holes in plane model.

I suspect it has to do with skin, similar to alpha channel.

Mysticpuma2003
04-22-2005, 02:18 PM
Hristos, this is only wip, so I'm ok on the holes....I have a plan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Zyzbot
04-22-2005, 06:31 PM
Links to some more photos of Johnson's plane:

Cockpit:
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery/56g/rsj5.jpg

Rudder:
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Johnson1.JPG

Behind Cockpit:
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Johnson2.JPG

TX-Gunslinger
04-23-2005, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Just wait for the waffles to come flying in on this! Wahhhh theres no way that Jug could still be flying and shoot down our Dora, not fair not fair! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Despite that fact that its only a movie for pure enjoyment... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So then, why attempt to depict this as an historical event? Particularly, when it never happened.

** WAFFLE ALERT **

** Please pardon my capitalization of certain information. I'm too dumb to remember how to underline and I know there are many who don't want to read the whole thing, so I capitalized key points for ease of reading, not to simulate yelling. Thanks **

Good day, MysticPuma. The idea of an IL2 movie that focuses on a "real" dogfight between skilled aces is an excellent concept that has not ever been fully realized in any film done to date. S~ I wish you success in this endeavor, I'd love to see a good movie from this concept.

For me personally, the 56th Figher Group versus JG26 and JG2 during 1943 and early 44 is probably the single most interesting experience of the war. The 56th started with no combat experience and in a matter of about 6 months, came to dominate and crush their adversary.

I have only one recommendation, and that would be that you consider changing the engagement date from June 26th to August 17th 1943 at about 1700L. Major Egon Mayer did not engage 2ndLt Robert S. Johnson on June 26th 1943. June 26th was a defeat for the 56th FG, while August 17th was a great victory.

17th August Engagement between 61st and 63rd FS and II/JG26

On August 17th, Hub Zemke successfully led the 56th deeper into France using drop tanks, than had been attempted before. While covering the withdrawel of B-17's returning to the UK over France, the 63rd FS of the 56th bounced II/JG26 and killed Major Wutz Galland plus four more FW-190 A5's of III Gruppe. Either of two 63rd FS pilots, Captain Walker "Bud" Mahurin (2 FW-190's in this engagement) and 1st Lt Glenn Schlitz (3 FW-190's) would have been the victors over Galland. My vote goes to Bud.

Below are some details of the 26th of June 1943. The prime sources of this information are:

1) the book mentioned by RedNeckerson, which was published in 2004 called "Wolfpack Warriors" written by Roger A Freeman. It contains a significant amount of information based upon actual interviews with members of the 56th's squadrons, the 61st, 62nd and 63rd fighter squadrons. It has many great pictures I had'nt seen elsewhere, and the information contained in it correlates well with Hub Zemke's own biography and all accounts from the 56th's veteren's EXCEPT for Robert Johnsons about the engagements of 61st Fighter Squadron on 26 June 1943.

2) Donald L. Caldwell's "JG 26 - Top Guns of the Luftwaffe"

26th June Engagement between 61st FS and II/JG26

On the evening of 26 June, 1943, at 1812L, 49 P-47's took off from Horsham St Faith UK, on a Ramrod mission to provide withdrawal support for B-17's bombing gound targets in the vicinity of Paris. During this period, Hub Zemke was trading off combat leadership with "Mac" McCollom. McCollom was embarked in the lead slot of the 63rd at 25,000 feet.

2nd Lt Robert S. Johnson, 61st Squadron, was "Shaker Yellow 4" in a flight let by Lt GERALD Johnson (one of three ace Johnson's in the 56th, was the first 5 victory ace in the 56th), callsign "Shaker Yellow 1". Shaker Yellow flight was at 24,000 feet when it was bounced from above by elements of II/JG26.

Major Wutz Galland Gruppenkommandeure II/JG26

II/JG26 was led by Wutz Galland, the younger brother of General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland. Wutz dispatched two 56th group P-47's from 61st FS in this engagement. One at 1852 and the second at 1904. Egon Mayer, was not on this battlefield.

Major Egon Mayer Gruppenkommandeure III/JG2

By 26 June 1943, Mayer had amassed 66 confirmed victories, all over France and England. His tally at that time included 9 B-17's, 1 B-24, 3 Typhoons, 47 Spitfires, 4 Hurricanes, 1 Blenheim, 1 Whirlwind and 1 Morane 406. Major Mayer was Gruppenkommandeure of III/JG2 and had just been presented with the Oak Leaves to the Knights Cross in April. Mayer was an expert shot to say the least; he was considered the "father" of the head-on attack method employed by the Luftwaffe against Allied heavy bombers. So, this guy is good at placing cockpit shots in bombers at closing rates over 950 kmh.

2nd Lt Robert S Johnson 61st FS/56th FG

Robert S. Johnson's first kill occured on June 13th, 1943, or about 11 days prior to the "21 20mm and MORE THAN 200 7.92mm holes" story. After returning to base on June 13th, he had been severly reprimanded by both Col Zemke and "Gabby" Gabreski for this behavior and was very worried about his future as a fighter pilot. Imagine a lone aircraft from the rear of a higher altitude flight, disobeying his flight leader, his squadron CO and his Group CO in an operational wartime environment. When you stop and think that Bob Johnson was in a postition where he could "see" (at the rear and above the other 56th formations) all this, his behavior is quite severe.

These are 1st Lt Gerald Johnson's comments (from Wolfpack Warriors) about the 26 June engagement:

"German fighters: there are a lot of them and they are higher than we are. I'm watching them and they are coming around and we are sitting ducks. I can't wait any longer so I called 'Break Left'. So my flight breaks left and we went around and met them head-on. Got out of this mess and tried to find somebody to shoot at but couldn't see anybody. I remember thinking where the hell have they all gone, they were here seconds ago. The people who were in my flight, they're all gone, I'm by myself. Finally I begin to see stragglers around. A lot of conversation on the radio with people sounding as if they were scared to death. Then I saw a P-47 heading back to England with a Focke-Wulf on his tail; shooting at him. The P-47 if flying straight and level. I'm a little higher, I roll around and come in on the Focke-Wulf. Just as I'm about to open fire he sees me, breaks off, but I'm too close and I shoot and get hits all over and he breaks into a fireball. The P-47 that was being shot at seemed okay, so I turned back into France to try and find another German to shoot at. But I don't find any and according to my fuel gauges I'd better be heading back. So I'm one of the last fellows to land. IT TURNS OUT THAT THE AIRPLANE I SAW BEING SHOT UP WAS FLOWN BY BOB JOHNSON. HE HAD ALREADY TOLD THIS FANTASTIC STORY ABOUT HOW THE GERMAN PILOT HAD COME UP ALONGSIDE, AND SO ON."

(More from Wolfpack Warriors) Indeed, 2nd Lieutenant Robert S. Johnson's story was exceptional. He was flying the No. 4 position in Shaker Yellow flight, which Gerald Johnson was leading, when his aircraft was hit by cannon shells. One burst hit the rear of the cockpit canopy shattering a left hand window with a splinter hitting Johnson in the left forearm and demolishing most of his watch. Another fragment ripped the oxygen mask from his face, scraping across his nose. Instruments were damaged and a severed hydraulic line sprayed fluid around the cockpit. The Thunderbolt fell into a dive, and fearing it was beyond control Johnson released his safety harness and tried to jettison the canopy. It would not budge, even when in desperation he stood up and put his feet against the instrument panel putting his full weight on the canopy. Trapped, he overcame his fear, regained control and after a few anxious moments found his P-47 stable enough to head out twoards the Channel. Reaching Manston he touched down successfully, but ended with a ground loop. Rescuers found that the 20mm burst behind the cockpit had twisted up metal so that to release Johnson the frame had to be forced. The P-47 had taken damage from a least THREE cannon shells and SEVERAL rifle caliber bullets. According to the severly shocked Bob Johnson, a German pilot had flown alongside the crippled P-47 as it flew back across the Channel and saluted him before turning away. FROM TIMES AND LOCATION GERALD JOHNSON WAS CONVINCED THAT THE FW-190 HE SHOT DOWN, WAS THAT WHICH SHOT UP HIS NAMESAKE'S P-47. HE HEARD BOB's STORY AND SAID NOTHING, ALTHOUGH HE THOUGHT THAT IN THE EXCITEMENT BOB HAD LET HIS IMAGINATION RUN AWAY WITH HIM CONCERNING THE CHIVALROUS GERMAN PILOT. NO SUCH INCIDENT WAS REPORTED FROM THE GERMAN SIDE.

Anyway, if I added anymore I think it would be counterproductive and my own speculation. I posted this to provide background information that many people may not have seen.


Again, great concept for a movie. Best wishes for your success in making it!

(Edited becuase it's too long and there are too many Johnson's in the story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

S~

Cajun76
04-23-2005, 06:24 PM
From what I've read, The Fw that saluted him and pumped MG fire came later, much later in the flight. He was initially shot up, and started making his way toward friendly territory. That part dosen't conflict with Geralds report.

RSJ maintains that he was shot up in formation, got seperated from the flight on the way back and was engaged by a lone Fw as he made his way back. That dosen't conflict with what's above, except the reference to the number of hits. However, if you look at how it's written, I think the 3 cannon hits and several rifle caliber bullets is referring to the sentence directly proceeding it, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Rescuers found that the 20mm burst behind the cockpit had twisted up metal so that to release Johnson the frame had to be forced. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and then

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The P-47 had taken damage from a least THREE cannon shells and SEVERAL rifle caliber bullets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which agrees with RSJ's

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Three 20mm cannon shells burst against the armor plate, a scant inch away from my head........... Behind the cockpit, the metal is twisted and curled; this had jammed the canopy, trapping me inside.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One thing that comes to mind. If the damage was limited to the area behind the pit, (forgetting about the rudder damage) it's likely the T-bolt could have been repaired. Instead it was a total loss, according to RSJ.

Jasko76
04-23-2005, 06:26 PM
Looking forward to see your new movie, Puma!

However, like Hristo said, tone down the damage on that P-47. As tough as it was, there's NO WAY it would stay airborne for very long, not to mention the poor pilot and other vital systems (engine, fuel tanks, control linkage).

TX-Gunslinger
04-23-2005, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>One thing that comes to mind. If the damage was limited to the area behind the pit, (forgetting about the rudder damage) it's likely the T-bolt could have been repaired. Instead it was a total loss, according to RSJ. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hate to be the one to tell you Cajun, but it was'nt written off at all. The A/C in question was P-47C 41-6235 "Half Pint". Another RSJ fabrication. Look, when even your squadmates accuse you of "stretching the truth", something is very wrong.

The fact that RSJ's flight leader, accuses him of embellishing the story (I'm trying as hard as I can to be respectful here), you know something is wrong. If your not familiar (I was'nt until lately) with Gerry Johnson, I'd recommend reading up on him. His accomplishments are fairly incredible. His last operational command was as a Lieutenant General leading the 8th Air Force during the last three years of Vietnam.

Look at this link:

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/56thfg-gallery.jsp?Group=56

Go down to the 60th picture, as this is about where Robert S Johnson's planes start to appear and read the captions on the pictures.

That aircraft was placed back in service, issued to the 36th FG of the 9th Air Force and finally lost on 18 August 1944

The caption for this image - http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery-pu.jsp?index=64&Group=56

reads:

"Lt. Robert S Johnson. Lawton, OK. 61st Fighter Squadron. P-47C 41-6235 HV-P "Half Pint". Well known photo but worth looking at again as contrary to popular belief, this a/c was not written of but repaired and issued to the 9th AF's 36th FG where it was finally lost on 18 August 1944. "

SUPERAEREO
04-23-2005, 07:19 PM
J have to agree with Jasko, sometimes I think that even the standard levels of visual damage in FB are somewhat slightly exaggerated compared to what one can see from photos from WW2, but even a Jug would disintegrate with so many holes in it...

Very much looking forward to the movie, though!


S!

wayno7777
04-23-2005, 10:23 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifI've read this thread with interest, here's my 2 pennys...did these quite a while ago.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/Luckyl.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/ff318c1a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/NotMyTurn3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/NotMyTurn2.jpg

Keep the WIP's coming.