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View Full Version : Yet another SAAB J21 thread!



robban75
05-04-2005, 02:34 PM
Sorry, couldn't resist!

The J21 probably wouldn't belong in this game but I still wonder how it would fare against other fighters of its generation.

The J21 took to the air on July 30th 1943. It was equipped with a Swedish built DB605B with 1475 hp. The J21 easily overheated while on the ground, and ground cews had to water down the cooling slots to prevent overheating. The push prop gave several benefits. Weapons could be mounted in the nose which gave good accuracy. Armament consisted of four .50cal machine guns and one 20mm cannon. The J21 could also carry rockets and bombs. In fact the J21 was highly regarded by its pilots in the fighter to fighter role and ground attack. A tricycle landing gear was fitted which gave the pilot an excellent view when taxiing.
The Airframe was very clean from an aerodynamic point of view and it was also fitted with a laminar flow wing. Engine output was fairly low when compared to what was avalible at the time. The J21 was AFAIK not equipped with any boosting solutions and so avaliable engine output didn't exceed 1475hp. However top speed was still as high as 640km/h.
Compared to the lighter J22 the J21 couldn't be concidered a great dogfighter. It was however a good match for the P-51 which also was used by the Swedish airforce at the time. At altitude the P-51 was 60km/h faster than the J21. They were comparable in manouverability, although the J21 had an edge in turning and looping manouvers.
The pushing prop rendered it impossible for a pilot to leave the machine in a traditional way should the unthinkable happen. So the J21 was one of the first planes to be equipped with an ejection seat. Which proved to work really well when it was needed.


Wouldn't it fun to fly this plane in FB/AEP/PF. I know it will never happen, but one can still dream, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://totalcar.index.hu/images/tortenelem/saabgyaralap/saabgyar_02.jpg

http://www.saabklubben.com/arkiv/92/9207.jpg

http://gr.fipu.krasnoyarsk.edu///camms/ar/167/pics/90_1.jpg

http://gr.fipu.krasnoyarsk.edu///camms/ar/167/pics/90_5.jpg

http://airwar.valka.cz/muzeum/ostatni/saab_j21/clipart/f_01.jpg

The J21R, the jet equipped version.

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/VanTilborg/2457L.jpg

robban75
05-04-2005, 02:34 PM
Sorry, couldn't resist!

The J21 probably wouldn't belong in this game but I still wonder how it would fare against other fighters of its generation.

The J21 took to the air on July 30th 1943. It was equipped with a Swedish built DB605B with 1475 hp. The J21 easily overheated while on the ground, and ground cews had to water down the cooling slots to prevent overheating. The push prop gave several benefits. Weapons could be mounted in the nose which gave good accuracy. Armament consisted of four .50cal machine guns and one 20mm cannon. The J21 could also carry rockets and bombs. In fact the J21 was highly regarded by its pilots in the fighter to fighter role and ground attack. A tricycle landing gear was fitted which gave the pilot an excellent view when taxiing.
The Airframe was very clean from an aerodynamic point of view and it was also fitted with a laminar flow wing. Engine output was fairly low when compared to what was avalible at the time. The J21 was AFAIK not equipped with any boosting solutions and so avaliable engine output didn't exceed 1475hp. However top speed was still as high as 640km/h.
Compared to the lighter J22 the J21 couldn't be concidered a great dogfighter. It was however a good match for the P-51 which also was used by the Swedish airforce at the time. At altitude the P-51 was 60km/h faster than the J21. They were comparable in manouverability, although the J21 had an edge in turning and looping manouvers.
The pushing prop rendered it impossible for a pilot to leave the machine in a traditional way should the unthinkable happen. So the J21 was one of the first planes to be equipped with an ejection seat. Which proved to work really well when it was needed.


Wouldn't it fun to fly this plane in FB/AEP/PF. I know it will never happen, but one can still dream, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://totalcar.index.hu/images/tortenelem/saabgyaralap/saabgyar_02.jpg

http://www.saabklubben.com/arkiv/92/9207.jpg

http://gr.fipu.krasnoyarsk.edu///camms/ar/167/pics/90_1.jpg

http://gr.fipu.krasnoyarsk.edu///camms/ar/167/pics/90_5.jpg

http://airwar.valka.cz/muzeum/ostatni/saab_j21/clipart/f_01.jpg

The J21R, the jet equipped version.

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/VanTilborg/2457L.jpg

tigertalon
05-04-2005, 02:51 PM
AFAIK J21 was one of only two aircraft, sucsessfuly converted from prop to jet without major modifications. The other being Yak3.

Would be really nice to do some B&Z with that thing!

lbhskier37
05-04-2005, 03:07 PM
looks like it has almost as good rearward view as the beufighter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

carguy_
05-04-2005, 03:28 PM
Got that right,looks like the pilot didn`t see anything behind.

The plane looks like challenged P38 heheheh

What`s with the numbers?How many on the front?

robban75
05-04-2005, 03:40 PM
The canopy was quite bulged, similar to that of the Spitfire. So the visibility was quite good, although not as good as that of the P-51.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/photos/detail_j21_12.jpg

There were no J21's at any front. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

F19_Olli72
05-04-2005, 04:23 PM
Also, wasnt it amongst the first aircrafts to have a catapult seat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Cos it would've been hard to bale out without be shredded to pieces by that prop otherwise http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

73GIAP_Milan
05-04-2005, 04:59 PM
it was a very advanced plane http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and what about this one then?
Fokker D23a (http://www.pegasusmodels.com/d23a.jpg)

I'm dutch myself but have very little info on this one, although it looks really similar to the SaabJ21 ..

Badsight.
05-04-2005, 11:04 PM
cool thread

Freelancer-1
05-04-2005, 11:13 PM
Both the Saab and the Fokker are so butt-ugly that you have to love 'em. They rate well up on the Way Cool meter.

civildog
05-04-2005, 11:57 PM
Now I know where DeHavilland came up with the Vampire and Venom. I shudder at the thought of bailing out of the thing.

JG52Karaya-X
05-05-2005, 05:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
Both the Saab and the Fokker are so butt-ugly that you have to love 'em. They rate well up on the Way Cool meter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that...

The Fokker 23 looks like a Do335 Ameisenb√¬§r for the poor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

mynameisroland
05-05-2005, 06:28 AM
Robben I was at the Flyvappenmuseum, outside Linkoping, over easter I have photos I took of the J21 as id love to try and model it some day. I read some where either while i was at the museum or while reading an article about the developement of the DB605 which stated that the Swedes got 1700hp from their DB's using higher octane fuel.

The J22 would be an awsome figher for IL2 wish it was coming.

VW-IceFire
05-05-2005, 07:27 AM
Fascinating...I've heard so little about SAAB and the Swedish side during the war but it seems like they were quite capable of producing some fantastic designs during World War II...they never fought so we never hear about them...but this is a very unique design in the vein of the P-38.

robban75
05-05-2005, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Robben I was at the Flyvappenmuseum, outside Linkoping, over easter I have photos I took of the J21 as id love to try and model it some day. I read some where either while i was at the museum or while reading an article about the developement of the DB605 which stated that the Swedes got 1700hp from their DB's using higher octane fuel.

The J22 would be an awsome figher for IL2 wish it was coming. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool! Did you see the wall painting in the museum shop at the entrance? It pictures a Lansen and a Draken flying in formation. I painted that in 1997. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If you ever plan on going back to the Malmen airforce museum, ask for Ove Fredin, tell him that Robert Westerberg from Gotlands airplane museum sent you. You'll find no better guide! His father was one of the pioneers in Swedish aviation!

1700hp?! I didn't know that! I wonder what that would do to its performance?
I like the J22 too. Kinda like a smaller version of the Fw 190. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif