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H-Rebel
06-22-2008, 02:04 AM
I've gotten the hang of CEM, now I need to know what different methods people use for navigating in planes that don't have some sort of guidance system. I have searched the forums and most posts on the subject are out of date ('03), can anyone please offer some help?

H-Rebel
06-22-2008, 02:04 AM
I've gotten the hang of CEM, now I need to know what different methods people use for navigating in planes that don't have some sort of guidance system. I have searched the forums and most posts on the subject are out of date ('03), can anyone please offer some help?

Is3Starsis
06-22-2008, 02:13 AM
Read the landscape and sun carefully and you'll get home buddy... this goes for Il-2 at daytime.
As far as I know it's the only possible way to navigate in IL-2, assuming you play Full Real.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ICDP
06-22-2008, 02:27 AM
Full realistic... isn't realistic. In real life navigation you would have mission briefings etc telling what compass direction your waypoionts were. Also how far away they were and at what speed you should use and at what time you are meant to arrive. Not to mention the fact that knowing wind direction etc is critical to navigation. In IL2 you get none of that info in the breifings, just a lot of guess work with a limited map and not a lot else.

It can be done in IL2 but don't kid yourself that it is realistic.

DKoor
06-22-2008, 02:32 AM
On dogfight maps you can only use your comms and reading the landscape. There is no other way literally.

However, in COOP mode you have a luxury of calling your tower, so this is practically a non-issue, just ask them for a vector to home base.

GIAP.Shura
06-22-2008, 02:39 AM
I don't think much has changed in the art of WW2 navigation since 2003, so those posts are probably still relevant. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Navigation is all about learning to read the map compared to what you see and orient yourself within that reading. The main way to improve is just to do it. If you are flying a mission spend a few moments on the briefing page looking at the terrain you are flying over. Look for landmarks such as bridges, river forks, road forks, coastal features and towns.

Ground attack missions are very good for developing your map reading skills. You will have a specific path and most likely a target area search at the end. If you know how to use the Full Mission Builder (something I would strongly advise learning) a good thing to do is to build a small patrol over an area around a base, possibly with a few ground units to spot and attack. Fly this patrol regularly until you no longer need the map to orientate yourself then increase the patrol size. The objective isn't to memorise the map, just to exercise your spatial awareness and your familiarity with what features look like in IL-2.

Lastly, remember that pilots did get lost in WW2, especially when inexperienced. There are many tales of pilots landing on a road to ask directions at a local village. At least in IL-2 you won't have a long walk if you get lost.

Personally speaking, I love flying without map icons.

Tully__
06-22-2008, 03:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GIAP.Shura:
I don't think much has changed in the art of WW2 navigation since 2003, so those posts are probably still relevant. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not WW2 nor in the game. There are no navigation features in the current version of the game that weren't in the original IL2 Sturmovik release in 2001/2.

F19_Orheim
06-22-2008, 03:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GIAP.Shura:

Personally speaking, I love flying without map icons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 Navigation is half the fun, expecially when flying @ low alt towards ground targets in an IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BWaltteri
06-22-2008, 04:29 AM
In real flight you don't move your head with right hand, unlike in this sim.

gdfo
06-22-2008, 05:39 AM
In real life you would know your long and lat and the declination. These are not in this sim.

What you could do if you knew the kilometers of each grid is to plan your speed and time your flight so that you would know how long it would take you to cover 20 k at a given speed. I guess you would have to dl the map first.

Also during WW2 planes many planes were directed by radar and ground control. They also used radio beacons and well know landmarks.
Mostly pilots knew where they were going ahead of time through briefings that covered many aspects of the mission including nav and waypoints.

Skoshi Tiger
06-22-2008, 06:55 AM
I hope the mission briefings in BoB will be a lot more realistic...

Of course, we will all have to take up smoking to get into the right frame of mind, and that won't be good for our health.

Xiolablu3
06-22-2008, 08:17 AM
You can get your direction from the compass (0 = north, 90 = east, 180 = south etc. etc.) Which helps a lot, but will not tell you where you are exactly.

Sirrith
06-22-2008, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BWaltteri:
In real flight you don't move your head with right hand, unlike in this sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. I move it with my left.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I find it a pain to navigate using the map... its possible, but VERY annoying to find your position unless you happen to be near a odd landmark that stands out

crucislancer
06-22-2008, 08:47 AM
I found Navplan (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=3188) to be a good tool for full switch navigation.

AWL_Spinner
06-22-2008, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In real flight you don't move your head with right hand, unlike in this sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I like TrackIR, you move your head with your head.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like navigating in IL2. It's a challenge, but that's half the fun, especially if low level bombing. Read the map carefully before departure, sketch up something on paper maybe to help you, pick waypoints, IP etc. based on river, road, town and coastal features.

It may not be as 'easy' as real life with regard to briefings etc. but real life was somewhat more difficult in about a million other ways, including permanent death if you got it wrong!

Bearcat99
06-22-2008, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BWaltteri:
In real flight you don't move your head with right hand, unlike in this sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.. I move my head.. with my head..

ffb
06-22-2008, 09:06 PM
A good 2D in-flight map is a help too....

For the two maps I have produced I used the Google maps Terrain version to make the 2D map ..... so that the shape of the hills shown on the map are exactly matched by the 3D view of the landscape .... being of course, both derived from the same source ..... satellite imagery

slipBall
06-22-2008, 11:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H-Rebel:
I've gotten the hang of CEM, now I need to know what different methods people use for navigating in planes that don't have some sort of guidance system. I have searched the forums and most posts on the subject are out of date ('03), can anyone please offer some help? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I read the mission brief, then study the map and write down headings and some ground features to look for en-route. Your basic dead reckoning...the addition of a compass rose on SOW maps/charts would be way cool. As it is now, it is possible to use a flight slide rule computer such as a Jeppesen slide rule for planning, the addition of a rose would greatly improve that use

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/2233

there are other one's available

Tully__
06-24-2008, 04:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gdfo:
What you could do if you knew the kilometers of each grid... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At most map zoom levels it's 10km squares.

WTE_Galway
06-25-2008, 09:20 PM
basic principles ... with the proviso that i havent flown online for 3 years so some of it may have changed ...

Before we start .. you really need a printed map for anything serious. A lot of VFR navigation requires matching visual features to map features and that is not easy without printing the map.

Some pointers.

1. An IL2 map square is 10km at middle zoom. If you travel at constant speed you can convert time to distance. For example you will travel 10km in 2 minutes at 300km. This lets you convert time traveled into distance on the map. As an example if you are near a large city and have traveled for six minutes game time (most aircraft have a built in clock - use it) at 300 kmh from your last known position look for a city 3 squares away from where you last were.

2. Offline the vector to home base request will always give you a bearing to your starting point. You are somewhere on a line starting at home base running 180 degrees from that vector.

3. Offline, if you are not the squadron leader, your leaders vector call can give you some info. bear in mind that all radio voices are identical in the game so not all calls are your guy. There is also a bug where about 25% navigation of calls are 180 degrees out. Nevertheless if you here a call for a bearing that corresponds to a bearing on your flight plan it is highly likely your flight is on that segment. This gives you offline a way of finding your flight.

4. Online its harder. You basically need to continually keep an eye on where you are matching map features to the terrain and track it on the map. Once you get used to converting time to distance you should be able to say things like "OK ... if I am on course the big lake just before the enemy base would show up in about 1 minute".

5. you should always know which way you are goign even in a dog fight. If you suddenly need to think "Am i heading north and south" you are doing something wrong. The DG should be for getting your precise bearing NOT for telling you which way you are going, you should in a general sense always know that.

6. If you get totally lost online you need to fly straight for some time and note down features and how far apart they are and then scan the map for potential places where flying that bearing will cross a similiar set of features at roughly the distances observed.