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HalisMojab1
06-27-2004, 01:10 AM
According to the Pilot's Manual for the P-80A Shooting Star, "Dive Recovery Flaps" are standard issue on this aircraft. The control for this feature is the most forward switch on the left-side panel just below the window, as shown in an annotated photograph in the manual.
I checked in the YP-80 cockpit as modelled by yourselves, and can quite clearly see this "Dive Recovery Flaps" switch, exactly where it should be.
Since you have modelled the switch on the YP-80, why have you not modelled the
action controlled by the switch? In other words why are there no Dive Recovery Flaps,
otherwise known
as "DiveFlaps", "Airbrakes", "Speedbrakes."?
If you are seeking historical accuracy, either you should model airbrakes on the YP-80, or you should remove the non-functioning switch.
Personally, I'd just like some airbrakes so I can bleed off speed when I'm coming in to land.

HalisMojab1
06-27-2004, 01:10 AM
According to the Pilot's Manual for the P-80A Shooting Star, "Dive Recovery Flaps" are standard issue on this aircraft. The control for this feature is the most forward switch on the left-side panel just below the window, as shown in an annotated photograph in the manual.
I checked in the YP-80 cockpit as modelled by yourselves, and can quite clearly see this "Dive Recovery Flaps" switch, exactly where it should be.
Since you have modelled the switch on the YP-80, why have you not modelled the
action controlled by the switch? In other words why are there no Dive Recovery Flaps,
otherwise known
as "DiveFlaps", "Airbrakes", "Speedbrakes."?
If you are seeking historical accuracy, either you should model airbrakes on the YP-80, or you should remove the non-functioning switch.
Personally, I'd just like some airbrakes so I can bleed off speed when I'm coming in to land.

BBB_Hyperion
06-27-2004, 04:22 AM
Did any of the 12 YP80 have diveflaps ?

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

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Regards,
Hyperion

Athosd
06-27-2004, 08:22 AM
YP-80 didn't have those flaps - P-80a is a later type.

Athos

Over the Hills and O'er the Main,
To Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
The Queen commands and we'll obey
Over the Hills and far away.

HalisMojab1
06-27-2004, 09:34 AM
But the YP-80 in this Simulator has the dive-flaps switch in the cockpit. Does this mean that the cockpit modelled is actually a P-80a cockpit? If so, can someone wire up the dive-flaps to the switch, please ;-)

Incidentally, can anyone point me to a source which describes how the YP-80 does not have dive flaps, and exactly when and why they decided to fit them. I have several books on the history of the Shooting Star, plus the Pilot's manual, and can find no mention of the dive flaps not being installed in the YP-80.
However, they all say that the dive flaps were very poor and didn't help bleed off enough speed to make handling the plane comfortable for those who had transitioned from props.

Fennec_P
06-27-2004, 09:58 AM
I find it odd that the P-80 would need dive recovery flaps. At least, the way its been modelled in FB.

Given how light the controls are, you don't need any flaps to recover from a dive. Unlike the P-38.

HalisMojab1
06-27-2004, 12:19 PM
Chief Test Pilot Milo Burcham was apparently also surprised at the oversensitivity of the controls during his Jan 7th 1944 test flight of Lulu Belle. The ailerons were assisted by Hydraulic boost, and he hadn't expected them to be so light to control. However, he was assured that this was part of the design.
The aerodynamic speed brakes or "boards" on the P-80 were not as effective in slowing the aircraft as the braking action of a propellor in flat pitch, so the aircraft was much more difficult to slow down in the landing phase. (From David R McLaren's book) This is definitely modelled accurately in IL-2.
The Pilots manual notes "Dive Flaps may be used as desired during the approach and landing. Their use wil increase the glide angle and reduce the length of roll after landing."

VW-IceFire
06-29-2004, 07:21 AM
I can totally understand what he was saying when its quoted. I usually have to make two passes over an airfield before I get the combination correct and the aircraft is sufficiently slow as to set it down on the runway and hit the breaks.

No wonder they have an airbrake on the production model.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

IV_JG51_Razor
06-29-2004, 03:20 PM
It's particularly interesting that Gibbage shows the speed brakes in the panel lines on the belly just forward of the main landing gear. I have seen several pictures of the early P-80s with the speed brakes deployed. I do recall seeing a post by Gibbage saying that the YP-80 didn't have them though. So that begs the question, why model the switch in the cockpit, and why put the lines on the belly where they are located? I wonder if Oleg didn't have something to do with it?

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

Aaron_GT
06-29-2004, 03:46 PM
AFAIK Gibbage originally modelled the P80A visually, but Oleg decided to model (in terms of FM) the YP-80 delivered to Italy before the end of WW2 - hence no dive flaps, just a slightly 'wrong' 3D model for the YP-80.