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SgtMeep
12-17-2005, 05:57 AM
Having scoured the net and forums for advice on bf109 piloting im asking you guys ~

What are bf109 tactics and flying techniques.

last night on the NZ server me and 2 friends had our asses kicked by one guy ina mustang.

I would swoop in from high (roughly 5-7oclock) and miss with my ****e aim and he'd pull up lightly then hard and end up behind me! i even tried zooming off, smug that my e advantange would win the day, and then flying back down only to find hes was aiming straight at me and shredding my engine with superior aim....

Id like help, tips, flying advice if any one can assist please..

SgtMeep
12-17-2005, 05:57 AM
Having scoured the net and forums for advice on bf109 piloting im asking you guys ~

What are bf109 tactics and flying techniques.

last night on the NZ server me and 2 friends had our asses kicked by one guy ina mustang.

I would swoop in from high (roughly 5-7oclock) and miss with my ****e aim and he'd pull up lightly then hard and end up behind me! i even tried zooming off, smug that my e advantange would win the day, and then flying back down only to find hes was aiming straight at me and shredding my engine with superior aim....

Id like help, tips, flying advice if any one can assist please..

Hristo_
12-17-2005, 07:35 AM
Generally you did smart tactic, but it seems that timing was off.

Any plane climbing after plane with superior E (especially 109) is fighting the other guy's fight. Either P-51 was trying its luck or he was postitive you would somehow mess up.

Next time when you pull into a climb with P-51 behind you, try to keep climbing just a little longer, until speeds bleed off to near stall speeds. This is the time where your sustained climb kicks in. I would recommend slow spiral climbing turn until he is below your wing tip. Then drop on him and go for deflection shot. He won't have a shot and he won't be able to bring his nose at you if you overshoot.

Looping or hammerheading is nice, but you need greater E advantage. It also kills your SA for few crucial moments. If you time it wrong, he will still be pointing at you when you dive on him. Ideally, he would lose control before his firing solution, but it takes master to recognize the right moment.

In arena, keep the 109 fast and climbing most of the time. Always try to drag the fight into a climbing contest. Use close BnZ and E tactic. Turnfight only when without other options and against poor turners.

Kuna15
12-17-2005, 11:37 AM
Hristo says it well.

Also if you let him chase you (extend; try to run and make him chase you at almost same altitude as you), you will pick up speed and there is a chance. Of course he will catch you but not with great altitude advantage.
Also Bf-109 is the very best climber in game (conventional) versus P-51D the worst climber - so verdict is clear... once when he slows down (manoeuver) he is dead.
Flying P-51 is very demanding because most of the fights occurs on altitudes which are bad for P-51 (low/medium).

Brain32
12-17-2005, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> last night on the NZ server me and 2 friends had our asses kicked by one guy ina mustang. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haven't you heard, that's perfectly normal, P51 was best at everything with it's mighty .50 he could slash through planets, he could climb to Jupiter and just blow it to microscopic particles with it's mighty .50 cal. Do you know who actuall defeated the Borg, not the starfleet it was one guy in a Mustang he could otclimb them, outturn them and desintegrate their poor protected force shields to pieces. The one thing that actually sucks big time in this game is that ME109 can fly and shoot, when we all know that WW2 was won by one guy in a P51. Do you know who chased the Devil down in Hell? It' was one guy in a P51. If God could choose a plane he would choose P51. And that is not all, actually all allied planes should be faster, more manouverable and completely resistant to fire from Axis guns, that how it really was in WW2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Yes, I'm trolling my *** off, so SgtMeep don't even bother to read this bull, it wasn't directed to you anyway...

Xiolablu3
12-17-2005, 12:26 PM
I seemed to be having this sort of trouble last night. I would start of a little higher than the plane I would meet, and always seemed to lose the fight. (Doesnt usually ALWAYS happen like it was last night)

I would close and try to avoid the head on, only for him to pull up under me into a stall and shoot me while I climbed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

It seemed to happen over and over, and in the end I just gave up trying to avoid head ons with planes just a little lower, I was just losing all the time. I just started going into head ons anyway, because at least you get a shot in that way.

Usually (If I'm not having a terrible night like last night!) I can climb and weave a little to avoid the head on, and keep my height advantage to dictate the fight. I think the problem you had is that you didnt make sure that you had enough energy and/or height before you got close, enabling him to get a shot off.

Remember once he pulls up and behind you he has no E at all, you can quickly dive slightly and weave to make sure he cant line up a shot until you get distance between you and then begin to climb in the spiralling climb like Hristo describes.

It sounds like the guy had one chance of a shot against you and took it, unluckily for you. Next time this happens, for the moment he is behind and in range, make sure you dont give him an easy shot, very slightly keep changing the direction of your flight until you get out of his range so that he cant set up a deflection shot.

SgtMeep
12-17-2005, 02:53 PM
Also what do i do if i find a target has managed to sneak up right up to my (same alt)close 5-7? just climb.. it feels so risky at such close range

Hristo_
12-17-2005, 04:40 PM
Depends on your relative speeds and closures. What is certain is that you don't want to pull in any kind of climb with enemy close behind. As you described before, climbs are dangerous even with E advantage, how wouldn't they be with similar E states ? Remember, when you pull into a climb when chased, the distance reduces initially. Well enough to get you shot down usually http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If the enemy behind you is closing fast, there is no choice but to induce an overshoot. This is rather easy in 109, as it can slow down very quickly, being light and draggy. After he overshoots, either turn the other way and extend or press the fight on him.

If the enemy has no closure and is almost out of effective gun range, use a trick - do a very slow flat turn at minimal Gs. In fact, you want to accelerate during this turn. To the enemy it will look like you are turning and he will try to pull lead on you. That's your chance to get away. Works great against Spitfires, as those are the worst planes to have on your six when they travel at almost same speeds as you. Even works when you are in 190.

If the enemy is close and travels at similar speed to yours, you have no option but to scissor, barrell roll or anything else to induce an overshoot. Needless to say, you chances are pretty slim too.

SgtMeep
12-17-2005, 04:52 PM
also im reading in another part of this forum about MW50..apparantly it only kicks in over 100% and shouldnt be turned on at certain points. How exactly do i use MW50?

Yea thats something im trying to deal with at the moment. Keeping my 109 fast.any tips? im reading around but theres so many differnet opinions and some conflict and i dont know whos right :/

Kuna15
12-17-2005, 08:21 PM
MW50 is an engine boost used on some German planes should be engaged best at 0% throttle (if on high throttle settings it will ruin engine).
Once engaged you don't have to worry about it anymore (if you use it wisely tho).
Someone posted that MW50 tank last for about 26 min. of usage or so (throttle settings over 100%), after that fluid is depleted and MW50 should be disengaged immediatelly. In reality you'll never run out of MW50 fluid since that will occur only if you test it intentionally (there is no need for running your engine for 26 min. of combat settings).

I use MW50 only in combat occasions.

SgtMeep
12-17-2005, 09:17 PM
ive been using the mw50 at 110% power while taking off all along... now that i use it properly ive noticed a HUGE increase in speed and performance!

HellToupee
12-17-2005, 09:39 PM
just turn vs a mustang they dont have a chance at matching a 109 in a turn fight ingame.

SgtMeep
12-17-2005, 09:43 PM
thanks all for the advice! My rather poor bf flying has improved quite a bit.

BuzzU
12-17-2005, 09:52 PM
Trying to beat the plane that won the war is foolish.

Hydra444
12-17-2005, 11:26 PM
I'd say the P-51 is the least of your concerns when fighting online.There are much more deadly opponents lurking about in the skies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BuzzU
12-17-2005, 11:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hydra444:
I'd say the P-51 is the least of your concerns when fighting online.There are much more deadly opponents lurking about in the skies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't say it was the least of his worries.

"last night on the NZ server me and 2 friends had our asses kicked by one guy ina mustang."

HellToupee
12-18-2005, 02:53 AM
but Buzz he said NZ server, when it comes to nz pilots no matter the plane they cant be beat.

robban75
12-18-2005, 03:02 AM
It also depends on what type of Mustang. The Mustang III is untouchable if flown correctly, no matter what alt you engage it at. The P-51D on 25% fuel is quite lethal and retains E very well.

domenlovrec
12-18-2005, 07:40 AM
I'm having same problems. I just can't get them of my 6. I don't use manual prop. pitch cause this only makes me slower. When I dive down at speed 600km/h and more, i shoot, then i climb back at about 30?. In 50% i got shoot down while climb. Last week i was flying head on with La7. I didn't turn on him, because he did. I thought that he will not catch me cause i was like, 420-450km/h. Well, i was wrong. Then i can just hopelessly watch the distance getting shorter and shorter... Any tips?

alert_1
12-18-2005, 09:02 AM
While Me109 is excellent performer it's not an easy "point and shoot" type of plane. I feel that better then trying to be faster then opponent is tryin to be preferably always a little higher and lure him into climbing contest and autmaneouvring him at relatively low speed because at high speed Me109 is neutred by heavy elevator, comparing to P51 or Spit.
Diving in Me109 is final option wotking well against VVS fighters but NOT against P47,P51 and Spits. If you take look at HART_Dryers tracks you'd see it all...

Hristo_
12-18-2005, 09:30 AM
Unlike 190, the best use of 109 in attack roles is to dive below well away from enemy plane and try to shoot while coming from below (15-30 degrees angle is good). No other plane in this sim can do it as effectively as 109 (well, 163 can http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

This will capitalize on 109 excellenet climb, reduce the elevator stiffness due to climbing speeds and most important of all - you will attack from blindspot.

Don't try to attack the enemy while diving. You will most likely be spotted and 109 isn't a good diver anyway. Also, chances are that your elevator and ailerons are already too stiff to make any useful corrections. Instead, do the approach described above.

If you get caught in climb by a plane that has just maneuvered, I have two possible explanations:

a) You misjudged enemy E state or enemy plane has managed to hide it from you.

b) You performed an E bleeding maneuver - often new pilots try to pull hard Gs into a climb. Not good - use gentle moves whenever E is important. Remember, climb reduces distance, much like racecars get closer in curves. This is sometimes enough to get you shot down even if you did everything by the book.

If someome has rapidly closed on your six, most of the time it is your own fault. No plane in this sim is so poor performing that contemporary planes can close on it so fast. Especially not the 109.

Leave the manual prop pitch to experienced pilots. It is the finesse, not essential technique. Instead, concentrate on your SA, stay fast, know when to run and you'll be fine.

Sometimes when I fly the 109 I can hardly wait to be bounced by a P51, MkIII, P47 or P38. Not so in 190. 109 is great when on defensive and there is no other plane I'd rather be in. It is also better lonewolf plane than the 190.

Sintubin
12-18-2005, 02:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Unlike 190, the best use of 109 in attack roles is to dive below well away from enemy plane and try to shoot while coming from below (15-30 degrees angle is good). No other plane in this sim can do it as effectively as 109 (well, 163 can http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

This will capitalize on 109 excellenet climb, reduce the elevator stiffness due to climbing speeds and most important of all - you will attack from blindspot.

Don't try to attack the enemy while diving. You will most likely be spotted and 109 isn't a good diver anyway. Also, chances are that your elevator and ailerons are already too stiff to make any useful corrections. Instead, do the approach described above.

If you get caught in climb by a plane that has just maneuvered, I have two possible explanations:

a) You misjudged enemy E state or enemy plane has managed to hide it from you.

b) You performed an E bleeding maneuver - often new pilots try to pull hard Gs into a climb. Not good - use gentle moves whenever E is important. Remember, climb reduces distance, much like racecars get closer in curves. This is sometimes enough to get you shot down even if you did everything by the book.

If someome has rapidly closed on your six, most of the time it is your own fault. No plane in this sim is so poor performing that contemporary planes can close on it so fast. Especially not the 109.

Leave the manual prop pitch to experienced pilots. It is the finesse, not essential technique. Instead, concentrate on your SA, stay fast, know when to run and you'll be fine.

Sometimes when I fly the 109 I can hardly wait to be bounced by a P51, MkIII, P47 or P38. Not so in 190. 109 is great when on defensive and there is no other plane I'd rather be in. It is also better lonewolf plane than the 190. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Says a guy who cant fly bf 109 our FW190 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

I KICK YOUR AS ENY TIME http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Try this against me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Dont listed to them my friend

None of them here can fly bf 109 our fw 190

And i am to lassy to write it al here

Just say wich server you at , Wich time ,Wich day, And wats your online name
It would be my plesaure to teach you some stuff

Now you see taht german planes need takticks

Not like some red hollywood planes in IL-2

SgtMeep
12-18-2005, 02:28 PM
o ok...irc or msn? id be keen to meet with you in the next 20 minutes or so but you name the server

Anyway i was wondering if someone who is good with the bf wouldnt mind uploading a track of them flying. I feel fairly confident with my own flying now but itd be cool to see the BF in the hands of a pro

Sintubin
12-18-2005, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SgtMeep:
o ok...irc or msn? id be keen to meet with you in the next 20 minutes or so but you name the server

Anyway i was wondering if someone who is good with the bf wouldnt mind uploading a track of them flying. I feel fairly confident with my own flying now but itd be cool to see the BF in the hands of a pro </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am at lobby right now

I/JG53_Friedric

Click on my name

SgtMeep
12-18-2005, 02:58 PM
uhh wheres the lobby http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif is it just the #lobby channel?

Sintubin
12-18-2005, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SgtMeep:
uhh wheres the lobby http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif is it just the #lobby channel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hypperlobby

Downlaod it here

http://hyperfighter.sk/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=5 (http://hyperfighter.sk/modules.php?name=Content&amp;pa=showpage&amp;pid=5)

BuzzU
12-18-2005, 03:19 PM
Germans are so serious.

SgtMeep
12-18-2005, 03:38 PM
well im in hyperlobby as DeusIrae. it says your in game so im just sitting here waiting for now.

Lucius_Esox
12-18-2005, 06:15 PM
Well I see you are both on H/L,, post the results with a track if poss http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SgtMeep
12-18-2005, 07:09 PM
the track is mostly me trying to get barrel rolls right and attempting (i think its this manouver) the hammer head. I kinda got the hang of it by the ned after a massive amout of stalls and crashes