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del130528032037
03-17-2006, 11:09 AM
I suggest the game designers take a look at what people want before they make another Lockdown or Critical Hour! Go to this URL to see the polls about Critical Hour.http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/rainbowsixcriticalhour/index.html?tag=nl.e577

Hey! Just a quick shout out to the game designers for R6VEGAS! I'm not trying to be rude. I am a diehard Rainbow six fan. I suggest that you go on xbox-live in Black Arrow and listen to the conversations about Lockdown and Critical Hour. If something isn't done, and Vegas disappoints there are probably going to be boycotts of several Ubi-soft items. That is not a threat, and I seriously hope that it doesn't happen that way, but if you think about it how many people want to buy games that suck!?

del130528032037
03-17-2006, 11:09 AM
I suggest the game designers take a look at what people want before they make another Lockdown or Critical Hour! Go to this URL to see the polls about Critical Hour.http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/rainbowsixcriticalhour/index.html?tag=nl.e577

Hey! Just a quick shout out to the game designers for R6VEGAS! I'm not trying to be rude. I am a diehard Rainbow six fan. I suggest that you go on xbox-live in Black Arrow and listen to the conversations about Lockdown and Critical Hour. If something isn't done, and Vegas disappoints there are probably going to be boycotts of several Ubi-soft items. That is not a threat, and I seriously hope that it doesn't happen that way, but if you think about it how many people want to buy games that suck!?

cre8nhavoc
03-17-2006, 11:53 AM
Vegas will be disappointing if you make it. Remember that.

nastyman2k6
03-17-2006, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cre8nhavoc:
Vegas will be disappointing if you make it. Remember that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it will if they dont get some talent to make games

cre8nhavoc
03-17-2006, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nastyman2k6:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cre8nhavoc:
Vegas will be disappointing if you make it. Remember that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it will if they dont get some talent to make games </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Uh, have you been reading around? The guys who did Rainbow Six 3 and Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow are working on Vegas.

FYI

Real720
03-17-2006, 02:51 PM
This is like the 100000000000000000th thread that talks about the same freaking thing!!!!!

Lockdown was made by REDSTORM!!!!!!!!

del130528032037
03-17-2006, 03:06 PM
Why didn't they work on Lockdown or Critical Hour, Oh wait, they did didn't they? Honestly, I don't know the answer to that question, but what I do know is that Critical Hour is what I make of it, and I chose to make Critical Hour ****, and so did many others. See for yourself... go to this url... copy and paste it to your web browser if it's not clickable.http://forums.gamebattles.com/showthread.php?p=8120484#post8120484 Let me make one thing clear that I'm not trying to be rude, I just want another Rainbow 6 legacy game that I can enjoy, and I believe that I speak for just about everyone on that.

del130528032037
03-17-2006, 03:19 PM
Someone get that gamedesigner in here. I want to know if there is going to be drop shots, oooptie walks, open leans, circullar reticles for your accuracy, lean walking, and evasive bouncing. These are the cool moves that were sacrificed in shame on Letdown and Critical Hour. We want a game that takes skill that you build over time, not jump right in and valla your good. If we wanted Counter Strike we would play it, but we want something that is better than galo, and that is and has always been Rainbow Six. Ubi-Soft! you guys have us fans scared that you are going to produce another piece of ****!!!!!!

Real720
03-17-2006, 03:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
Someone get that gamedesigner in here. I want to know if there is going to be drop shots, oooptie walks, open leans, circullar reticles for your accuracy, lean walking, and evasive bouncing. These are the cool moves that were sacrificed in shame on Letdown and Critical Hour. We want a game that takes skill that you build over time, not jump right in and valla your good. If we wanted Counter Strike we would play it, but we want something that is better than galo, and that is and has always been Rainbow Six. Ubi-Soft! you guys have us fans scared that you are going to produce another piece of ****!!!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another piece of ****!?!? What the hell do you mean by ANOTHER?!?!

del130528032037
03-17-2006, 03:41 PM
Yes another! I'm entitled to my own opinion which happens to be shared with a majority of Rainbow Six fans. Letdown and Critical Hour are getting ragged on because they were the start of the **** Ubi-Soft is dishing out. Freedom of speech, nough said!!! Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a very competitive person when it comes to Rainbow Six 3 and I rely on important skills that I have spent a lot of time on learning. I was in Frag Factory and we won 3 clan championship titles in Team Compete. Games like Lockdown are just games. They mean nothing. They are not as competitive as the old Rainbows. I just hope that VEGAS doesn't turn out that way!

Real720
03-17-2006, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
Yes another! I'm entitled to my own opinion which happens to be shared with a majority of Rainbow Six fans. Letdown and Critical Hour are getting ragged on because they were the start of the **** Ubi-Soft is dishing out. Freedom of speech, nough said!!! Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a very competitive person when it comes to Rainbow Six 3 and I rely on important skills that I have spent a lot of time on learning. I was in Frag Factory and we won 3 clan championship titles in Team Compete. Games like Lockdown are just games. They mean nothing. They are not as competitive as the old Rainbows. I just hope that VEGAS doesn't turn out that way! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why the hell won't you read!?!?!? Ubisoft didn't make Letdown!!!!

del130528032037
03-17-2006, 03:49 PM
Then why is Critical Hour just like Letdown? Didn't Red Storm and Ubi-Soft work together on Letdown. Didn't Red Storm have their hands in Critical Hour too?

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 07:56 AM
what is it with this guy? Geesh don't get mad at people for telling the truth! Your like a mom or something!!!


THE TRUTH IS UBI NEEDS TO GET ON THE BALL AGAIN!!!

cre8nhavoc
03-20-2006, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I want to know if there is going to be drop shots, oooptie walks, open leans, circullar reticles for your accuracy, lean walking, and evasive bouncing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

These were not cool. They were exploits that people used to improve their gaming style. You can ask any legit player what they thought of any of above mentioned and I guarantee they will say all were improper.


WOW, if you thought that the game is best played with exploits and it should be implimented into the next Rainbow Six then you've got the series all wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

DayGlow
03-20-2006, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
Yes another! I'm entitled to my own opinion which happens to be shared with a majority of Rainbow Six fans. Letdown and Critical Hour are getting ragged on because they were the start of the **** Ubi-Soft is dishing out. Freedom of speech, nough said!!! Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a very competitive person when it comes to Rainbow Six 3 and I rely on important skills that I have spent a lot of time on learning. I was in Frag Factory and we won 3 clan championship titles in Team Compete. Games like Lockdown are just games. They mean nothing. They are not as competitive as the old Rainbows. I just hope that VEGAS doesn't turn out that way! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why the hell won't you read!?!?!? Ubisoft didn't make Letdown!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Xbox LockDown was made by Ubisoft Montreal. RedStrom did LockDown PS2 and PC. Critical Hour was made by Ubisoft Quebec.

And everyone needs to calm down.

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 12:53 PM
What are you talking about? Nothing I said was even close to being a glitch or an exploit. Don't try to tell me that I've got the series wrong because it is you that is mistaken. All of those moves that I listed require skill not a knowledge of exploits. They were merely tools that when used were very effective. I have played Rainbow Six since PC verson first came out. I know what the series is about. If those moves were exploits then Gamebattles would ban people from clanmatches for using them. The gameplay in Black Arrow is important, and it needs to stay almost the same when Vegas arrives. Your timing and accuracy are what makes those moves work, not glitches!

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 01:15 PM
Havoc, Why don't you send me a friend request on xbox live. Together, we will play in Rainbow Six Black Arrow. There, I will clear your mind and reveal many truths. My gamertag is the same as my user name on here. Take it from me... I know more about Rainbow Six 3 then just about everyone on xbox live. Let me prove it. I will show you why I'm proud of my skills.

cre8nhavoc
03-20-2006, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
What are you talking about? Nothing I said was even close to being a glitch or an exploit. Don't try to tell me that I've got the series wrong because it is you that is mistaken. All of those moves that I listed require skill not a knowledge of exploits. They were merely tools that when used were very effective. I have played Rainbow Six since PC verson first came out. I know what the series is about. If those moves were exploits then Gamebattles would ban people from clanmatches for using them. The gameplay in Black Arrow is important, and it needs to stay almost the same when Vegas arrives. Your timing and accuracy are what makes those moves work, not glitches! How about not trying to be RUDE!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

If you leaned in the wide open in Rainbow Six 3, 10 times out of 10 it was because you were using a glitch in the programming to gain an advantage over your opponent. This is what was nicknamed, "The Lean Glitch." That didn't take skill, it was abuse from a bad programming in the lean. If this wasn't a glitch then care to explain to me why Black Arrow's media coverage mentioned that the infamous "Lean Glitch" was fixed?

The Excessive "bunny hopping" was (and still is) frowned upon by respective players in the Rainbow Six community. People take the misuse of useful functions as the crouch and manipulate it as a way to keep themselves alive. That's not why you have a crouch button, you have it to hit cover on areas, not hop around like your ankles & knees broke.

I don't have anything mistaken. You for yourself can ask reputable, mature minded individuals what they thought (or think) about exploits such as slow walking, open leaning and bunny hopping. They will in fact tell you that those methods are used by under achieved players who use them as a tool/method to stay alive. A last ditch effort to keep themselves in the game.

If this is how you play, then more power to you. If you ever played against my team or team members they would tell you straight up that abusing poor programming in a game to your advantage is not what Rainbow Six is all about. Besides, if you're a fan of the series since the old pc days, then you yourself should know that these exploits in multiplayer matches are unfair.

PS

I no longer own my Xbox and I don€t play Black Arrow anymore. I€ve been on my 360 since day one and hardly ever looked back.

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 01:46 PM
If you do not play Rainbow Six anymore, then your spot as an admin on a Rainbow Six thread is very questionable. By what you have said is that I'm an under achieved player, when then again you show yourself to be ignorant of understanding. I said nothing about slow walking. Lean walking requires you not to break your lean. Open leaning (not the glitch type) is a skill that requires you to lean and pull out of it realy fast in a fire fight. Do you think that in real life someone would not bounce or move all over the place if they were getting shot at? Sounds to me that the real reason why you don't look back is because you, yourself suck at the game. Those skills are open for anyone who wants to take the time to learn them. If you don't learn how to play you are going to suck. See there? Fairly Simple isn't it? For future reference, do not attempt to undermine me again, ADMIN!

DayGlow
03-20-2006, 01:48 PM
in real life is someone is caught in the open and come under fire they either

a) go code black and freeze up

b) seek cover as quickly as possible.

They do not bob up and down.

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 01:57 PM
Have you ever seen someone getting shot at in real life? If you have then you would notice that most people, while running to cover, would bobb their head up and down. They would duck on impulse of the firing sound from the fire arm. It would be stupid to run for cover with your head staying in the same position.

DayGlow
03-20-2006, 02:00 PM
Yes I have. They don't jack in the box all over the place, they move for cover as fast as they can. A duck reflex is just that, a reflex, they then move as fast as they can to the nearest cover without bobbing up and down like a jackin the box.

I think what havoc is talking about are people that stand out in the open, bobbing up and down and leaning in and out with no rhyme or reason to take advantage of hit detection glitches.

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 02:15 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. I believe that a person bobbs up and down, and leans in and out to take advantage of bad aim. I've noticed that people may not think that there is any reason, but there is...I will tell you from experience. When your in a firefight you do not want your enemie's gun barrel facing you. To keep the gun barrel from facing you, you move opposite of their aiming movements. That's why it doesn't seem like there is any reason for it. Another thing, You do not want them to get a head shot on you, so the best way to stop that is constantly keep your head moving. That's why you open lean. The open lean I talk about is not an auto lean. You do not stay in the lean. At first it's challenging to move your fingers really fast on your controller inorder to accomplish these things, but time in and a lot of practice is why I'm one of the best on this game. Not glitches. Hell I don't care to use glitches, if I want I'll put my modded xbox on. When I said that I know more about this game then just about everybody online, I meant it. I know this game inside and out. I have even trained a lot of newbs who would still suck today, but they do pretty good for themselves.

DayGlow
03-20-2006, 02:20 PM
see that's the heart of the issue. People are attracted to R6 because they want it to relfect real life, ie realism. You maybe good at playing the game, but it smacks against the idea of playing realistically. It's a huge disconnect to see people bobbing and leaning all over the place because it is playing the game when it removes a certain aspect of the imersion into a realistic game.

cre8nhavoc
03-20-2006, 02:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
If you do not play Rainbow Six anymore, then your spot as an admin on a Rainbow Six thread is very questionable. By what you have said is that I'm an under achieved player, when then again you show yourself to be ignorant of understanding. I said nothing about slow walking. Lean walking requires you not to break your lean. Open leaning (not the glitch type) is a skill that requires you to lean and pull out of it realy fast in a fire fight. Do you think that in real life someone would not bounce or move all over the place if they were getting shot at? Sounds to me that the real reason why you don't look back is because you, yourself suck at the game. Those skills are open for anyone who wants to take the time to learn them. If you don't learn how to play you are going to suck. See there? Fairly Simple isn't it? For future reference, do not attempt to undermine me again, ADMIN! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you€ve got me wrong bro. I use the lean, crouch and all the other resources given to you by the developers the proper way. If you are saying you use them in a proper manner, then my apologies. The way you word your replies, you make it sound as if the functions given to you in the game are to be used under any circumstance, even if it's not proper.

As far as feeling the need to question my current status with the Ubi Soft site due to my lack of involvement in the current generation Rainbow Six titles, then I hate to tell you that you are in fact deeply mistaken. I€ll get you up to speed. I got to where my current status is now by being a loyal fan of the series. I can tell you the ins and outs to every map on both R63 and Black Arrow. I was one of the very few who held an average kill to death ratio of 3.75 between both titles. I plugged and played well over 1,500 + hours into both titles combined. I structured and built some competitive gamers on my spare time to make them better players to the series in general. I can pin point your location and tell you the type of weapon you were using, how much ammunition you had left in your clip, down to telling you when you swapped to frags or a pistol. Like I said, I put way too much time into the series.

You can question my current status as a council member all you like. Keep in mind that the reason I was chosen like the others was to be the voice of the community. We€re here to help keep the Rainbow Six franchise what it was of the past. This is what I meant in my first comment of Rainbow being what you make it. You have the opportunity to speak your voice about the series to suit the hardcore fans, or you can keep quiet about it and let Ubi decide for us what we want. The choice is yours. All I ask (and I know I speak on behalf of a few others) is that you make your opinions legible and tolerable. Saying it will flop if you do this/that is not what we the council are looking for.

Never undermined you, its miscommunication. What I can tell you that I€m sure you will understand when I communicate this is anymore verbal abuses to forum posters, moderators, developers or administrators will lead you to a dismissal from the site.

Are we at an understanding now?

del130528032037
03-20-2006, 02:40 PM
Lol! That is funny! Yes, I admit I've gotten out of hand a little with this miscommunication issue. I can't make you understand where I'm coming from, but you, now, know where my heart is, and that I'm truly a passionate Rainbow Six fan/gamer. BUT understand one thing...I will make myself crystal clear...I'm willing to FIGHT for the rights of all Rainbow Six fans, and I like the way the gameplay is with BA. I just wish that Ubi soft could stop slow walking and lean glitching from happening in Vegas as long as we get the original game play back!!! Oh, by the way... All of xbox live may know me as Unholy Doom HA HA HA HA HA

bdr41
03-20-2006, 03:13 PM
Back to the original question -- will Vegas be disappointing?

I think that depends on how easy it is to backtrack and how flexible the new engine is. You have to think that Ubi felt Lockdown was the right direction to take the R6 franchise, otherwise they wouldn't have.

Vegas has been in development for 2 years and the developers have only known for a few months that the fan base overwhelmingly disagrees and the new direction turned out to be a major strategic blunder.

Hopefully, the work that was done for the first year-and-a-half was general and flexible enough to easily re-route the original design plan for Vegas into a style more agreeable to the R6 fan base.

If it's not, or if they decide to blindly push through with their original plan, then it will almost certainly be disappointing.

However, if they're able to tap into the original feel of the games that actually made the franchise popular to begin with while taking advantage of the power of the 360, it could be pretty impressive.

nastyman2k6
03-22-2006, 06:33 AM
i, honestly think it would serve all of us well if they scraped this disaster in the making .

DayGlow
03-22-2006, 10:30 AM
or you exercise your rights as a consumer and don't buy.

del130528032037
03-22-2006, 11:10 AM
If Vegas is disappointing, then we will not exercize our rights as a consumer by not

purchasing the game. WE WILL EXERCIZE OUR RIGHTS TO PROTEST COMPLETE TRASH!!! I believe

Ubi-soft took us for fools when they created Critical Hour and sold it on the market for a

cheap price. Many fans of Ubi-soft games waited in anticipation for a game that would

subdue Lockdown. Surely people played the damn game before releasing it. Why was the lower

price presented in the first place. I can think of a few reasons. My main reason is that

they new all along that this game was going to suck. They had to make a profit on this

trash. They made their profit corruptly. In my opinion...VEGAS will be a very good game! I

can sense it! Ubi-Soft knows better by now, and I will not underestimate them.

P.S. DayGlow these people are in here because they do not want to hear that suggestion. It's

their right to be happy. We should not have to apply that suggestion, and it is Ubi-Soft's

job, you know, what their getting paid for!!, to continue making kick-*** games.

I'm sorry that I have to do this, but I will not stand by, and watch Ubi-Soft produce

another disaster. I am who I am, and I don't claim to be another!!! DO YOU HEAR UBI-

SOFT!!! I DON'T CARE WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT ME!!! I JUST WANT ANOTHER GOOD GAME BECAUSE I

KNOW YOU GUYS CAN DO IT!!!

DayGlow
03-22-2006, 11:14 AM
if Ubi is a corrupt organization like you believe, then don't buy their product. No one is forcing you.

del130528032037
03-22-2006, 11:31 AM
I did not say that!!! I said I BELIEVE that they made their profit corruptly on Critical Hour, and secondly, Fans of the R6 series should not have to listen to your suggestion, because Ubi-soft should be making good games. It's not our fault they have been screwing things up!!! I know what right I will exercize if they let us down again, and it's not the right to not purchase the game!!! It's the right to protest! PROTEST PROTEST!!!!! Like I said before!!! PROTEST!!!!!!!!!

GSG_9_Rage
03-22-2006, 01:37 PM
Ray, you need to calm down with your postings. You are getting a little too boisterous.

Once again, they did nothing wrong, legally, they don't force you to buy their games.

X_ELITESAVIOR_X
03-22-2006, 04:20 PM
You Guys need to mkae the new rainbow more like the original and black arrow. letdown and critical hour are really bad and not many people will play it over time

RoM_Mafia
03-22-2006, 06:42 PM
SO you guys are telling me you dont want to bob up and down and leanwalk? First off...host could of booted those glitchers so it didnt matter if you played with a legit host.

Second it didnt affect the match merely enough to cause people to hate the game.

3rd you can counter act the move by shooting in certain areas.

4th thing is, they fixed it in Black Arrow so why take it out. I speak for every one when i say this...I like to lean peek a corner. Lockdown lean type suked because i couldnt steadily walk to the corner so i wouldnt expose myself too much.This is why 3rd person camera thing is stupid. Let us lean for gods sake.

5Th and most important....ure telling me you rather not have the things that made Black Arrow fun like leanwalk and other minor things. NOtice i said MINOR. SO back to what i was saying you rather take those core things out or Keep the good old PEC mode where PEOPLE CHEATED to lv 60 in oned day....wow. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
So go ahead and keep PEC and take out the things that made Black Arrow great and will see just another Lockdown with next-Gen Graphics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

HiPNoTiX
03-22-2006, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">SO you guys are telling me you dont want to bob up and down and leanwalk? First off...host could of booted those glitchers so it didnt matter if you played with a legit host.

Second it didnt affect the match merely enough to cause people to hate the game.

3rd you can counter act the move by shooting in certain areas.

4th thing is, they fixed it in Black Arrow so why take it out. I speak for every one when i say this...I like to lean peek a corner. Lockdown lean type suked because i couldnt steadily walk to the corner so i wouldnt expose myself too much.This is why 3rd person camera thing is stupid. Let us lean for gods sake.

5Th and most important....ure telling me you rather not have the things that made Black Arrow fun like leanwalk and other minor things. NOtice i said MINOR. SO back to what i was saying you rather take those core things out or Keep the good old PEC mode where PEOPLE CHEATED to lv 60 in oned day....wow. Angry Blue Guy
So go ahead and keep PEC and take out the things that made Black Arrow great and will see just another Lockdown with next-Gen Graphics. Mad </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
leanwalking and bobing up and down is what got me into rainbow for Xbox. IMO, is was what made the game additive. I really dont care what they do with Vegas. If it has the "minor" things u said, ill buy Vegas insteads of giving it a rental. PEC isnt all that bad, but it does need alot of testing b4 realeasing the game. PEC got glitched weeks after Lockdown came out.

ch1efer
03-23-2006, 11:14 AM
well even if vegas sucks ppl will find that out when they get it. since its on a 360 its got to be sum good. Me i dont have a 360 but if i do when vegas comes out ill check it out. The reason i still play RB and RB BA is cuz there havent been very many good ganes for xbox. if i had a 360 id be happy playin all sorts of other games that are out or cumin out like that new splinter cell or oblivion or any other game that will interest me .. i dont even rele care about vegas to much ... dont get me wrong i have Mightylordray on my list and all i ever do is play black arrow but im just saying its just one game and all this 'protesting' u want to do is truly worthless you'll just have to wait for the game then u can B!T(H all you want.

-ch1efer

X_ELITESAVIOR_X
03-24-2006, 05:36 PM
<span class="ev_code_red">childish post removed. There is no room on the forum for you.
DayGlow/moderator</span>

korn311
03-24-2006, 08:15 PM
I honestly have to agree with Mighty. The guys with skill were the ones using the drop shots etc. And it takes skill to do it. I just wish slow walking is fixed, that is all.

captmac07
03-25-2006, 06:37 PM
Yes they flinch from the pop of gun fire but that is only a reaction to the bang...truth is by the time you hear the BANG the bullet has already found it's target, so the hop is pointless, let's not kid ourselves it's done in games as a glitch, not always a sucess but still a last ditch effort to cheat!

del130528032037
03-27-2006, 11:45 AM
Hold on there. It's not cheating. Everybody has the ability to do it if they have skill. If you tried doing the drop-shot, and you sucked at it you'd get slapped.

What it is, is not a glitch. It's shooting, and not keeping your head in the same spot. You are right about someone shooting you, but not neccessarrilly right about someone shooting at you.

In other words. If someone is shooting at you, your not going to keep your head in the same spot. If someone shoots you, then you don't have much choice in the matter because your either hurt or dead.

There is nothing about the drop-shot that makes you invinceable or let's you see something that others don't. You can't just say, oh well I think I'm going to die. I better turn my drop-shot on. Come on, now.

cre8nhavoc
03-27-2006, 01:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
Hold on there. It's not cheating. Everybody has the ability to do it if they have skill. If you tried doing the drop-shot, and you sucked at it you'd get slapped.

What it is, is not a glitch. It's shooting, and not keeping your head in the same spot. You are right about someone shooting you, but not neccessarrilly right about someone shooting at you.

In other words. If someone is shooting at you, your not going to keep your head in the same spot. If someone shoots you, then you don't have much choice in the matter because your either hurt or dead.

There is nothing about the drop-shot that makes you invinceable or let's you see something that others don't. You can't just say, oh well I think I'm going to die. I better turn my drop-shot on. Come on, now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You€re right about bobbing up and down not being a glitch, it€s a cheap, unsporting way of trying to survive in a firefight. Think about it, the crouch button wasn€t given to you as a tool for excessive bunny hopping, it was given to you to use a tool to take cover and keep your body concealed. Some kid found a use for it and half of the community bought into it. The instruction manual doesn€t mention anything to the effect of, €œto evade bullets or to look like a bunny, repeatedly tap the left thumbstick down.€ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

This is the issue at hand Ray, players who like to play the game fair and proper frown on the players who use the bullet dodging technique. It€s funny that you mention it being a skill, and if you aren€t good at the skill of using it then €œyou suck.€ Wrong. You can ask any respected, honest player across ANY Rainbow Six game about that and they will tell you that it€s nothing to brag about. Nine times out of ten, the players who actually DO suck use this method as a way to stay alive longer.

I use to laugh at all the players who came into the room, boasting to be so good. The first two things I noticed about them was the open lean and the bob-n-weave when it came to a firefight. I hardly lost to those players simply because I played the game right. I would crouch properly and lean on a corner ONLY (never open leaned or lean walked). Most of the time players who use the exploits such as bullet dodging aren€t too good themselves. Then when they get good at looking for ways to stay alive on the field (as a way as a one up on a player), they start to feel a bit bold and skillful (similar attitudes to this conversation). Most of the time the players who slow walked, open leaned, lean glitched, bullet dodged would come into our room each night to get worked. Before anything, gums were yapping and trash talking was at the peak. By the end of the night, those particular individuals were whooped beyond recognition and ticked. Only to ask what it was that made us so good and how we kept winning. Our answer was always, playing the game right (no open leans or bullet dodging), and verbal communication. Both of which almost all players we worked lacked.

You didn€t see much of it in Lockdown because Ubi and the team did an excellent job slowing down the mechanics making the lean effective like it€s to be used. And this is something you can bet on me pushing for in the next Rainbow Six. Not because €œI suck€ at defeating it, because it€s demoralizing and improper to the respected community players on Xbox Live.

Oh, BTW, before you go off and say €œeverybody is doing it, there is no respected players who don€t€, think again. I read other Rainbow Sites throughout the internet and many were forced into the same, cheap & dirty tactic to try and combat those players. When it gets to the point of players not being able to play the game the way it€s meant to be played, that€s a problem. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Real720
03-27-2006, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
Hold on there. It's not cheating. Everybody has the ability to do it if they have skill. If you tried doing the drop-shot, and you sucked at it you'd get slapped.

What it is, is not a glitch. It's shooting, and not keeping your head in the same spot. You are right about someone shooting you, but not neccessarrilly right about someone shooting at you.

In other words. If someone is shooting at you, your not going to keep your head in the same spot. If someone shoots you, then you don't have much choice in the matter because your either hurt or dead.

There is nothing about the drop-shot that makes you invinceable or let's you see something that others don't. You can't just say, oh well I think I'm going to die. I better turn my drop-shot on. Come on, now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ignorant........

del130528032037
03-28-2006, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
Ignorant........ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, I'm glad that you are so positive. Ubi should listen to you because it shows that you are a true fan of Rainbow Six. Hey, sinse you know everything Real720 I guess my opinion

doesn't matter. Nobody's opinion matters except for yours.


Yeah right! This isn't communism! So stop annoying people.

cre8nhavoc
03-29-2006, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
Ignorant........ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, I'm glad that you are so positive. Ubi should listen to you because it shows that you are a true fan of Rainbow Six. Hey, sinse you know everything Real720 I guess my opinion

doesn't matter. Nobody's opinion matters except for yours.


Yeah right! This isn't communism! So stop annoying people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


Practice what you preach. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Real720
03-29-2006, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cre8nhavoc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
Ignorant........ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, I'm glad that you are so positive. Ubi should listen to you because it shows that you are a true fan of Rainbow Six. Hey, sinse you know everything Real720 I guess my opinion

doesn't matter. Nobody's opinion matters except for yours.


Yeah right! This isn't communism! So stop annoying people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


Practice what you preach. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take it easy on him. He's a good person.

Spawn316
03-29-2006, 09:59 PM
I'm not concerned about single player, only multiplayer, and Vegas would rock if it had a good maps and the more tactically-based gameplay used in R63. I liked the controls of Lockdown, but it was a touch too arcadey for my tastes. It doesn't need to be so realistic that it's a chore/bore to play (ie America's Army), but it should have no glitches through the walls or lean glitches like the original had. I'd also like to see a few of the original maps in there for MP just for good measure. If it has all these components, I don't think it'll be disappointing.

Also, they should be building a new game from the ground up, so hopefully we'll get something solid. The screens look good, but good looking screens don't necessarily equate to a good game.

del130528032037
03-30-2006, 11:23 AM
You know, spawn? I opened a poll specifically for people to express their opinions. Sinse you have an opinion on what you want why don't you go to my poll on how much gameplay matters to you. Hey man! Why don't you even reply. It will be good for you. OK

cre8nhavoc
03-31-2006, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
You know, spawn? I opened a poll specifically for people to express their opinions. Sinse you have an opinion on what you want why don't you go to my poll on how much gameplay matters to you. Hey man! Why don't you even reply. It will be good for you. OK </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


His topic seems to be on the subject. Why don't you try to lighten up a little Ray. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Just because the reponse is not to your liking doesn't mean he should not post here. It's a public forum.

DETHBLOW_V
04-16-2006, 03:16 AM
As to this thread's topic, I will say four words: Don't hold your breath.

sktuchitime
04-16-2006, 06:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cre8nhavoc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
What are you talking about? Nothing I said was even close to being a glitch or an exploit. Don't try to tell me that I've got the series wrong because it is you that is mistaken. All of those moves that I listed require skill not a knowledge of exploits. They were merely tools that when used were very effective. I have played Rainbow Six since PC verson first came out. I know what the series is about. If those moves were exploits then Gamebattles would ban people from clanmatches for using them. The gameplay in Black Arrow is important, and it needs to stay almost the same when Vegas arrives. Your timing and accuracy are what makes those moves work, not glitches! How about not trying to be RUDE!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

If you leaned in the wide open in Rainbow Six 3, 10 times out of 10 it was because you were using a glitch in the programming to gain an advantage over your opponent. This is what was nicknamed, "The Lean Glitch." That didn't take skill, it was abuse from a bad programming in the lean. If this wasn't a glitch then care to explain to me why Black Arrow's media coverage mentioned that the infamous "Lean Glitch" was fixed?

The Excessive "bunny hopping" was (and still is) frowned upon by respective players in the Rainbow Six community. People take the misuse of useful functions as the crouch and manipulate it as a way to keep themselves alive. That's not why you have a crouch button, you have it to hit cover on areas, not hop around like your ankles & knees broke.

I don't have anything mistaken. You for yourself can ask reputable, mature minded individuals what they thought (or think) about exploits such as slow walking, open leaning and bunny hopping. They will in fact tell you that those methods are used by under achieved players who use them as a tool/method to stay alive. A last ditch effort to keep themselves in the game.

If this is how you play, then more power to you. If you ever played against my team or team members they would tell you straight up that abusing poor programming in a game to your advantage is not what Rainbow Six is all about. Besides, if you're a fan of the series since the old pc days, then you yourself should know that these exploits in multiplayer matches are unfair.

PS

I no longer own my Xbox and I don€t play Black Arrow anymore. I€ve been on my 360 since day one and hardly ever looked back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haha the only people who do not like lean walking or lean glitch were simpley campers w/o the lean glitch it was heaven for campers. not to mention i was one of the best in black arrow when i was on mm in season 1 for t.c.

and i still like the old bow

Darth_SS
04-16-2006, 04:34 PM
Harsh reality for you guys.

There is maybe 50 to (max) 100 of you guys on these forums. You are the hardcore.

Ubisoft is trying to sell to a market of millions of people.

Your crazed "I WANT IT TO BE JUST LIKE WHAT A SOLDIER EXPERIENCES!" attitude, accompanied with "NOOBS SHOULD HAVE TO TRAIN AT IT TO BE GOOD!" obsession isn't actually going to encourage them. The grand reality is that most people want a GAME. Not a simulator. Not some mad competition that people feel dedicated to actually training to play it online effectively. Most people want a game, something they can pick up, enjoy for an hour or two, then put it down. They don't want to be sitting there thinking "This is just what it's like in real life!" Most people, if they want to experience that, join the police and aim for SWAT, or they just join the army.

Despite all your hate-mongering, and "down with Ubi!" slogans, you all know one simple reality. You are going to buy the next Rainbow Six game, regardless. If you love it, so much the better, if you hate it, you're going to sit there venting anger at Ubisoft for having a drop of quality for a grand total of two games, all the while playing it and cursing at the screen. But you'll keep playing it. It satisfies some need you all have for destruction, and you like it as real as possible. You are arm-chair generals, but realism helps you forget that for a brief period and feel like the badass. Then, when the next title rolls around, you'll curse and yell at Ubi that they messed up Rainbow Six, and yell that they lost your business (A blatent lie.) Quite unfortunately for you, however, your business doesn't even show up on their financial statements. This entire forum would be a very small piece of their business.


Now, personally, after seeing how awesome GRAW was, I have supreme faith that Vegas will be fun, and as realistic as can be.

Nomad_381
04-16-2006, 08:17 PM
Hey guys, I'm back. Just had to chime in on this thread.

First:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Darth_SS:
Your crazed "I WANT IT TO BE JUST LIKE WHAT A SOLDIER EXPERIENCES!" attitude, accompanied with "NOOBS SHOULD HAVE TO TRAIN AT IT TO BE GOOD!" obsession isn't actually going to encourage them. The grand reality is that most people want a GAME. Not a simulator. Not some mad competition that people feel dedicated to actually training to play it online effectively. Most people want a game, something they can pick up, enjoy for an hour or two, then put it down. They don't want to be sitting there thinking "This is just what it's like in real life!" Most people, if they want to experience that, join the police and aim for SWAT, or they just join the army.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to disagree with what you are saying in that people by and large do not want a game that does not involve any kind of skill building. Look at all the best selling FPS games out there. They all have a greatly implemented skill curve. Halo 2, for example, despite how many of you may flame for this, has a highly developed curve. Yes it is accessible to anyone from the outset, and a good game that sells great always is, but if you play it over time there is almost endless room for both personal and team improvement. A game that has no skill curve will not sell well at all, especially in the FPS market.

Second:
I just wanted to toss my 2 cents about the whole exploits hooplah and how I disagree with havoc and others insomuch that I find the lean walk (while completely broken in RS3) very useful in BA while still being within the spirit of the game. When I lean on a corner and take my initial line of sight, there may be a corner or piece of cover before me which I want to reveal slowly to my sight, so I lean walk out of my cover slowly while slowly getting more and more sight behind the corner or cover before me until I see a tango at which point I stop LW'ing and fire. Its also useful for when you lean at a corner and dont have the line of sight you precisely want, so you lean walk instead of unleaning and moving a little over to lean again, its just much faster that way (too out of daily practice to hit a perfect lean every time from cover). I do not advocate open lean walking or continuing a lean walk once a tango is spotted, but I believe the scenarios I have elucidated make good use of the feature in BA while still being within the boudaries of respectable play (as said, in RS3 there was a major glitch involved, making it unusable fairly).

In addition, and I've always said this, you simply cannot put exploitable things in a game and expect players not to exploit it. If theres a fast crouch/uncrouch then people will use it to try and dodge bullets. Plain and simple. If you mess up and leave glitches that allow people to level up in your RPG system, people will abuse the hell out of it. I know that I cannot trust fellow players to keep the game fair and balanced so I put it on developers shoulders to make the game with this in mind and find out if something can be exploited in a way they did not intend and either augment that feature or remove it completely.

Darth_SS
04-16-2006, 09:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomad_381:
I have to disagree with what you are saying in that people by and large do not want a game that does not involve any kind of skill building. Look at all the best selling FPS games out there. They all have a greatly implemented skill curve. Halo 2, for example, despite how many of you may flame for this, has a highly developed curve. Yes it is accessible to anyone from the outset, and a good game that sells great always is, but if you play it over time there is almost endless room for both personal and team improvement. A game that has no skill curve will not sell well at all, especially in the FPS market.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm agreeing with you there. People becoming progressively better is why difficulty curves work.

What I'm referencing is on the Rainbow and the Splinter Cell forums, people will say "Don't make it so accessible! If some newb wants to be good, he should have to practice, train, and take time to learn all the ins and outs of the levels instead of the developpers just toning it down for them, and taking away the advantage from the hardcore."

Somehow, to me, that seems ludicrous. I know that I, personally, am not going to "train" to be a better R6 player. My multiplayer rankings don't matter that much to me. It's not some life-or-death competition, it is an outlet to have fun.

del130528032037
04-17-2006, 10:01 AM
You know? Last time I checked, respective Rainbow Six players still play Rainbow Six. They might go play Halo 2 or Battlefield 2 or GRAW, but they always come back to Rainbow

Six. When you say that smart people don't want to use evasive bouncing, and things like that you are simply saying that people that use evasive bouncing and stuff are dumb. Please don't say that. Trust me. Your ignorance

shines through. I don't mean that to make you mad. I'm saying that there is room for educating. Don't be stubborn, and listen. You still do not realize that I'm not talking about

glitches. Wether you like it or not evasive bouncing, and these things have made Rainbow Six one of the best online games out there. Now adays 10 times out of 10 if your leaned in

the open. You are open leaning. Not glitching. When you are leaned out in the open and you are caught in a fire fight you usually lean from side to side and don't stay in the

same lean. I garentee that someone with a good drop shot will drop you just about everytime if you are prospectively leaned around a corner. Why? Because that is a skill that is aquired

and mastered by the best Rainbow Six players. It's not my fault that the game designers made it that way, but it would be foolish not to use what you can without glitching to win. It's

all about survival of the fittest, and a lot of people think they are good, but they are sadly mistaken. If you don't believe me, then I will prove it to you. Anyone! If you think for a

second that you are better than me at Rainbow Six 3 Black Arrow put me on your friendlist on Xbox Live. You wont even see me before you die.

del130528032037
04-17-2006, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cre8nhavoc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MightyLordRay:
You know, spawn? I opened a poll specifically for people to express their opinions. Sinse you have an opinion on what you want why don't you go to my poll on how much gameplay matters to you. Hey man! Why don't you even reply. It will be good for you. OK </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


His topic seems to be on the subject. Why don't you try to lighten up a little Ray. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Just because the reponse is not to your liking doesn't mean he should not post here. It's a public forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually like the response that spawn gave. That's why I said that I wanted him to reply in my poll. Did I say that he was off topic?

Your response is the one that's not to my liking. I feel that you are the one that needs to lighten up a little. You just misunderstood me that's all.

Ah! Mistakes happen. I know...I've made a few in my life time.

del130528032037
05-02-2006, 01:26 PM
I don't have G-4 TV, so can someone make sure that Vegas clips from E-3 make it here?