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irR4tiOn4L
04-10-2005, 03:00 AM
Hello everyone, new to the forum, signed up just to get off my chest a few issues -

1) In Silent Hunter II, destroyers, in the course of performing their duties, would constantly use active sonar sweeps. Silent Hunter I worked differently, destroyers only used active sonar when they suspected something.

My question is this - what do destroyers in silent hunter III do, and which is historically correct? The reason i ask is because sonar seems cheated in this game - you may be pinged continously while inside one of the subs stations, but go outside view next to your sub, and no pings can be heard - unlike silent hunter II.

Furthermore, i was just off southend in 1939 in a VIIB, sitting at 25 meters for 4 hours, dead still in silent running, just listening. A patrolling destroyer came close in the process of his patrol - within about 500 meters. I am in silent running, engines off, no movement, no noise. I cannot hear any signs of active sonar, yet my 'stealth meter' starts going gradually from green to red - still no active sonar pings.

The moment it hits red - active sonar ping ping ping - am i being detected by a cheated active sonar that cannot be heard, or am i being 'heard' while making no noise? is there another explanation? Very annoying

irR4tiOn4L
04-10-2005, 03:05 AM
2) The problem with the sonar guys mostly, but not entirely, seems to revolve around their lack of reporting 'unknown' contacts - try this - go to the hydrophones when you know a ship is around at long range, but your sonarman cannot pick it up; dial into its engine noise, then attempt to clasify its engine noise in the little notepad in the top right - chances are pressing the little button near type will not allow you to select between unknown, merchant and warship - even though you are manually mannign the station and can hear a ship, the game will not count the noise as distinct enough to be identified - when the ship does get close enough to be identified, then is ussually when a fully efficient sonarman will pick it up

irR4tiOn4L
04-10-2005, 03:06 AM
3) The flak and deck gun limits in rough seas are poor. The type XXI has such a high level gun emplacement that there is no way waves in winds of even 15 meters a second would wash over the station - yet it is still restricted to 7m/s. In fact, when water reaches a deck gun even in winds below 7m/s, while you are manning it, it will be rendered unusable untill it is not partially submerged any longer - in other words the game already detects when water is at too high a level for use of the deck gun, independent of the depth of the ship and wind speeds - why couldnt the frequency of the waves lapping the guns simply be used to determine when waters are too rough instead? This is in my opinion a far more elegant solution

irR4tiOn4L
04-10-2005, 03:06 AM
4) why do ships sink so quickly? When the bismarck and Prinz Eugen engaged the HMS Hood and HMS Prince of Wales in WWII, the Hood, sufferring an explosion in the magazine room, catastrophically exploded, broke into two sections, and sunk within 3 minutes, with only 3 survivors. This was considered extremely fast - yet in silent hunter III, the great majority of ships will sink well within a minute of being hit by 1 or 2 torpedoes, while most of the rest will sink within 30 seconds of flooding enough to be considered destroyed - most of the ones that do not suffer either of these will survive happily. The only time a ship takes hours to sink for me is when it is disabled and continues to make hull creaking noises, sufferring damage from the sea.


These issues are unexplained to me and ruin the gameplay quite markedly, especially the silly gun restrictions, strange destroyer sonar and lack of unknown contact reports - they are part of further issues such as uniform diving depths and morale problems, but unlike those, they have not been solved.

Part of the purpose of this post was to point to mechanisms by which the game handles some of these things in the hope that someone will be able to investigate deeper and come up with a solution

oh and hey all!

alanschu
04-10-2005, 04:59 AM
Make sure you have realistic sinking on.

Also, ships will still sink even if it hasn't said "destroyed."

When it says "ship destroyed" it means that your crew is certain that it's kaput. I had a C3 take 2 hours to sink on me one time (I waited with time compression for seas to calm down so I could shoot it, but I noticed a message "enemy destroyed" 2 hours after my periscope depth message).

irR4tiOn4L
04-10-2005, 06:07 AM
oh sorry yes i forgot to mention that - all realism settings on except manual targetting, manual mapping, event camera and external camera.

Im not having trouble sinking ships, no im saying they either sink very very quickly, sink within 15 minutes, or only sink later because they took damage from the sea when immobilised.

There seem to be just a few options for how long it takes a ship to sink - i believe this to be due to the compartment method of sinking in this game, where a ship will sink after it loses a set number of compartments to flooding - your uboat is kaput after just 1.

Ship sinkings in general are very predictable, and a step back from Silent Hunter II - though about the only step back.

alanschu
04-10-2005, 06:15 AM
I just had a T2 Tanker that took its sweet time sinking.

And this was even after it said "target destroyed" too.

I had run out of torpedos, and in an act of desperation I blew my ballasts by an armed trawler and got lucky and took out his deck gun with my first shot (his shot whizzed right by my head and just missed...sounded cool though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Two HE shots later the trawler was in flames....unfortunately I could now hear the V&W shooting at my from the front of the convoy, so I knew I had to be quick. I fired a few AP rounds at the tanker (I had hit it with two torps already) and got the target destroyed message.

By this time, the V&W was getting dangerously close, so I crash dove to about 40 m (I was at 40% hull integrity....couldn't go too deep) and played cat and mouse for a couple of attack runs before the destroyer figured he should return to the rest of the convoy. I waited for him to leave and casually surface, and it hadn't even looked like the tanker had really sunk at all yet.


I notice it only really seems to be the deck guns kills that take a while though. The torpedo ones definitely seem faster.

irR4tiOn4L
04-10-2005, 06:29 AM
hey thats cool! on my 1st patrol i tried sinking a listing C2 i had hit with my last fish by blowing ballast underneath it - didnt work lol - i tried to ram it - that got me killed - finally i made it run over me (trying to exploit the destroyer suicide issue) that really didnt work.

In any case though, the ship sinking isnt a big issue - id have liked if it were more realistic, but alas.

The real peeves ive got are that funny acting sonar - just weird, the sonar guys that wont report unknown contacts, bloody fatigue issues and the poor limits on deck and flak guns.

Maybe some modder might come across this and get something out of it that solves these problems - im looking into it myself

alanschu
04-10-2005, 07:16 AM
To avoid the fatigue issues, keep time compression at 64x or higher http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

After a while fatigue is not an issue. Even when your men do get tired, your super officers still keep the room at 100% efficiency.

irR4tiOn4L
04-10-2005, 09:06 AM
arrrgg ok one thing - i really dont need help - i know about 64x no fatigue - and in fact hte bloody officers are the ones alyways tired! Since theres five of them but only 2 beds no matter how you do it fatigue for the cruise builds up between them - either you let one of em have it all or you watch as they gradually get more tired, and more tired, and more tired. Its a pain. I tend to leave my WE out just because of this problem, and never have an officer on watch or engines because they tire too quickly, even on 64x or above, and never recover.

The point is to show the technical basis for some of these problems, and perhaps in this way spur a solution.

For example, the sonar guys cannot report sounds that do not yet allow a clasification of unknown, merchant or warship - if you man the station yourself, you can hear them, but cannot classify them either. This could be significant for a solution, as a mod or otherwise.

S VIIC_41
04-10-2005, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>3) The flak and deck gun limits in rough seas are poor. The type XXI has such a high level gun emplacement that there is no way waves in winds of even 15 meters a second would wash over the station <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think maybe the fact that the highly advanced Type XXI never had a deck gun, to my knowledge, which was removed to reduce drag (that and the fact that it wasn't much use in 1944 anyway) should take precedence over not being able to use it in bad weather...

Just be glad you have one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif or angry that it's not realistic... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif