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jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 12:28 AM
Just curious as to what IL2 functions the Saitek X-52 users are mapping to their rotary dials on their joystick and throttle. Also, their are some guys out there who have the very nice nice Franken Potato mod of the CH Pro Throttle. What do you guys have mapped to the two rotary dials that Ken installed for you ?

The reason I am asking is because I sometimes run across excellent opponents who seem to have flaps and maybe the elevator trim mapped to rotaries and they are harder to bring down in HL obviously.

Thanks,
Jay

jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 12:28 AM
Just curious as to what IL2 functions the Saitek X-52 users are mapping to their rotary dials on their joystick and throttle. Also, their are some guys out there who have the very nice nice Franken Potato mod of the CH Pro Throttle. What do you guys have mapped to the two rotary dials that Ken installed for you ?

The reason I am asking is because I sometimes run across excellent opponents who seem to have flaps and maybe the elevator trim mapped to rotaries and they are harder to bring down in HL obviously.

Thanks,
Jay

F19_Orheim
08-22-2008, 01:49 AM
I would guess that they have assigned any of the below listed HOTAS controlls. It is all very personal what you think is the most important.

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/images/tully/hotascontrol.jpg

I run the X45 Throttle and the CH Combatstick + rudder pedals. The X45 JS I have made into a control box, giving me 2 extra slider controls.
This way I can have all HOTAS controls on a slider. What the game allows you, you should, if possible, take advantage of.

I would guess that if I got to choose any 2 controls, it would be the elevator trim and the rudder trim - both quite essential to fly efficiantly. (rudder trim especially when level bombing)
Flaps can be used (combat flaps) even without sliders (keyboard default F and V) but I can't really say that I engourage the use of flaps in a DF. Energy is the most precious thing you have, and you loose a LOT of E when using flaps


"..maybe the elevators mapped "..
I really hope they DO have elevator mapped to an axis, kind of hard to fly otherwise.. or maybe you are referring to elevator TRIM?
Elevator trim used to be a way for pilots to gain an advantage in turn fights.. this is not the case really anymore as theresult of the input of the trim is delayed, which makes it very hard to use in a turn fight.. for this you really need a "direct" result of the input.

Where is RBJ when you need him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Ergo: "who seem to have flaps and maybe the elevators [trim?] mapped to rotaries and they are harder to bring down in HL obviously(?).
"... I can't agree really, as the elevator trim (if that was what you were referring to) is kind of useless if DF these days with the delay, and flaps.. well yeah, but then you really have to find another tactics.... he loose a LOT of E using flaps... I mean you are not one of those guys who fly round and round ... in circles are you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WTE_Galway
08-22-2008, 02:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F19_Orheim:

Where is RBJ when you need him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

RBJ is developing his own revolutionary new sim where you map the trim to the joystick and use keyboard commands for everything.

dirkpit7
08-22-2008, 02:05 AM
I use them for trim (elevator & rudder), I guess that's what they're meant to.

jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 02:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
I would guess that they have assigned any of the below listed HOTAS controlls. It is all very personal what you think is the most important.

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/images/tully/hotascontrol.jpg

I run the X45 Throttle and the CH Combatstick + rudder pedals. The X45 JS I have made into a control box, giving me 2 extra slider controls.
This way I can have all HOTAS controls on a slider. What the game allows you, you should, if possible, take advantage of.

I would guess that if I got to choose any 2 controls, it would be the elevator trim and the rudder trim - both quite essential to fly efficiantly. (rudder trim especially when level bombing)
Flaps can be used (combat flaps) even without sliders (keyboard default F and V) but I can't really say that I engourage the use of flaps in a DF. Energy is the most precious thing you have, and you loose a LOT of E when using flaps


"..maybe the elevators mapped "..
I really hope they DO have elevator mapped to an axis, kind of hard to fly otherwise.. or maybe you are referring to elevator TRIM?
Elevator trim used to be a way for pilots to gain an advantage in turn fights.. this is not the case really anymore as theresult of the input of the trim is delayed, which makes it very hard to use in a turn fight.. for this you really need a "direct" result of the input.

Where is RBJ when you need him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Ergo: "who seem to have flaps and maybe the elevators [trim?] mapped to rotaries and they are harder to bring down in HL obviously(?).
"... I can't agree really, as the elevator trim (if that was what you were referring to) is kind of useless if DF these days with the delay, and flaps.. well yeah, but then you really have to find another tactics.... he loose a LOT of E using flaps... I mean you are not one of those guys who fly round and round ... in circles are you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, sorry, I was typing too fast, but yes, I did mean elevator trim. I am also gathering more data so that I can best incorporate it into my joystick guides for noobies.

What do you mean when you say that elevator trim is delayed ? Do you mean that the source code is setting up a delay in milliseconds before the trim amount is applied? If so, how much is the delay ?

Also, when I wrote my Master's List several people mentioned RBJ and gave me some link to some guy with a huge unibrow. Did this guy really exist in the real world or is he just a joke like Bigfoot or something ? If he was real, what made him such a feared opponent?

Thanks,
Jay

WTE_Ibis
08-22-2008, 03:05 AM
Quote:
people mentioned RBJ and gave me some link to some guy with a huge unibrow. Did this guy really exist in the real world or is he just a joke like Bigfoot or something ? If he was real, what made him such a feared opponent?
=============================================
.
He told us so and he never lied. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I wish he was back, he would liven this place up be sure.


.

.

F19_Orheim
08-22-2008, 03:07 AM
"you mean that the source code is setting up a delay in milliseconds before the trim amount is applied?"

yes, when applying elevator trim, the effect was of course immidiate before.--&gt; roll the rotary and the plane trims.

This "feature" was used by a number of pilots to gain an advantage in turnfights, and there was a major discussion about this a couple of years ago. It ended with maddox applying a delay of the trim effect ---&gt; roll the rotary... tick tock tick tock and then the plane trims. I have no idea what the delay is as I really never did use it.
This change was incorporated into the game .. way back.. maybe around the publication av Ace expansion pack.. .can't really remember...

And yes, RBJ is the unibrow guy, a HUGE supporter NOT to delay the trim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.. and welll I have no clue if he was good or bad. I never "met" him ... I think it's just a folk tale http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

about stick setup I suggest you go here:
http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm

jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 03:15 AM
Yeah, but the Input section of IL2 does not register CH products (unless I am missing something). You move those sliders up and down and nada, nothing, zip as far as input difference for the Fighterstick for example.

And thanks for that link; I did read that article back when I was a noob.

Jay

F19_Orheim
08-22-2008, 03:22 AM
you must be missing things. I have both Ch pedals and CH Combatstick

I assign of course elevator and ailerons to the Combatstick, prop pitch too (the weird looking tiny throttle on the left base of the stick) manually via HOTAS setup in Control, as do I rudder and brakes for the pedals

check your controlpanel and see if XP has recognized the controllers in "game controllers".

F19_Orheim
08-22-2008, 03:28 AM
PS-- the ONLY slider that you can assign is the left slider on the CH JS . the bottom and the right are MANUAL "trims".. you only adjust the JS physically... these two can not be used as sliders for the game

jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 03:29 AM
No the 'Controls' section works fine for me (just as it does for you). What does not work for me is the 'Input options' section of IL2. This is where you can set the axes, deadband and throw. For this I have to go to game controllers in Windows or use the Control Manager software.

F19_Orheim
08-22-2008, 03:33 AM
i think this is because of you are using more than one control I think.. There is a small utility (program) wich you can downlaoad somewhere, where you can enter the these things, which then apply the values to the conf.ini..
The name of the aplpication. can't remember check out Il2 essentials.. Bearcat's thread

Chris0382
08-22-2008, 05:32 AM
I been using CH Prod for 20 yrs.

Today I have a combat stick and X-52 throttle set up for IL-2 resting on a rectangular piece of caulkboard on my lap sitting on my bed (studio apartment).

I developed a special CH script to use the 4 ay hat B-10 and B-10 for the full rudder that returns to center slowly on button release (this stops the plane from jerking when the rudder returns to neutral) yet is very responsive when activated.

I have elevator trim on the lower rotary of the X-52 throttle. This allows me to line up my cannons and increase speed or maintain lift.

I have zoom in-out on my larger rotary.

I have rudder trim on the X-52 slider and its OK but not as good as I like it. That slider is stiff and jerky and not free sliding and center is hard to note.

I have minimap zoom on the mouse wheel of the X-52.

I look around with the mouse stick.

I cant find any reason for aileron trim.

I would love to have a Franken-Potato though. Get em while you can as its artwork and one of a kind. An incredible piece of work.

I may use the X-52 mini stick and turn it into an axis for elevator and rudder trim and get track-IR

I spent many hours programming that rudder script that acts as good as a analog full rudder
and probably the best work Ive done. I must credit Bob C at the CH hanger for helping me and by surprise ended up with something I think was unexpected by both of us. I don't think Bob knows all the power of his program he created and has worked so hard on. It was like a genetic mutaion in selective advantage when I solved a crucial element of the script.

Tully__
08-22-2008, 05:46 AM
With respect to delayed trim: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310...291047842#2291047842 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=3481017842&r=2291047842#2291047842)

With respect to the game controls input screen, it only shows the controller that appears as ID#1 in Windows Game Controllers and always shows the X-Axis of ID#1 as roll, Y-Axis as Pitch and Z-axis as Yaw, even if those controls are assigned to different axes or a different controller. The "IL2 Sticks Utility" link in my sig is one of two tools that can be used to adjust input on all your assigned axes, look for posts by FoolTrottel for a link in his sig to an alternative tool.

Also look at the "Joysticks & IL2/FB/PF" link in my sig for more information about assigning controls, setting up and troubleshooting joysticks.

Bearcat99
08-22-2008, 06:44 AM
http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-45mod.jpg

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/100_2686_0.JPG

I use an axis for everything that has one. Also look below for more realistic differential braking.



More realistic differential braking (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5661068766)

stathem
08-22-2008, 08:44 AM
Guess all the CH guys are watching this thread so can I ask a wee question?

Just installing my new Figtherstick as we speak, and I've opened the CD for Control Manager, only to find the CD is broken.

No prob, I'll go the CH Hangar and d/l the control manger from there; my question is, does the CD have anything else useful on it apart from that?

jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 08:59 AM
Stathem - The answer is, nothing essential that I can think of. Just download the correct CM for either XP or Vista and be sure to follow the installation instructions on the sheet of paper that came with your stick exactly. CH products are a little finicky with the initial software setup and calibration.

Jay

jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris0382:
I been using CH Prod for 20 yrs.

Today I have a combat stick and X-52 throttle set up for IL-2 resting on a rectangular piece of caulkboard on my lap sitting on my bed (studio apartment).

I developed a special CH script to use the 4 ay hat B-10 and B-10 for the full rudder that returns to center slowly on button release (this stops the plane from jerking when the rudder returns to neutral) yet is very responsive when activated.

I have elevator trim on the lower rotary of the X-52 throttle. This allows me to line up my cannons and increase speed or maintain lift.

I have zoom in-out on my larger rotary.

I have rudder trim on the X-52 slider and its OK but not as good as I like it. That slider is stiff and jerky and not free sliding and center is hard to note.

I have minimap zoom on the mouse wheel of the X-52.

I look around with the mouse stick.

I cant find any reason for aileron trim.

I would love to have a Franken-Potato though. Get em while you can as its artwork and one of a kind. An incredible piece of work.

I may use the X-52 mini stick and turn it into an axis for elevator and rudder trim and get track-IR

I spent many hours programming that rudder script that acts as good as a analog full rudder
and probably the best work Ive done. I must credit Bob C at the CH hanger for helping me and by surprise ended up with something I think was unexpected by both of us. I don't think Bob knows all the power of his program he created and has worked so hard on. It was like a genetic mutaion in selective advantage when I solved a crucial element of the script. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay Chris - Greatly appreciated. It is really helpful that you detailed each control and its associated hat or rotary on your setup. I am still scratching my head over a custom script that allows a hat to control rudder - LOL.

I am fooling around right now with not only the absolute best ergonomics but also the best placement of the controls for dogfighting.

Jay

jayhall0315
08-22-2008, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
With respect to delayed trim: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310...291047842#2291047842 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=3481017842&r=2291047842#2291047842)

With respect to the game controls input screen, it only shows the controller that appears as ID#1 in Windows Game Controllers and always shows the X-Axis of ID#1 as roll, Y-Axis as Pitch and Z-axis as Yaw, even if those controls are assigned to different axes or a different controller. The "IL2 Sticks Utility" link in my sig is one of two tools that can be used to adjust input on all your assigned axes, look for posts by FoolTrottel for a link in his sig to an alternative tool.

Also look at the "Joysticks & IL2/FB/PF" link in my sig for more information about assigning controls, setting up and troubleshooting joysticks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay Tully - Thanks for that explanation. I actually downloaded one of those tools about two months back but never got around to fooling with it. Thanks to your easy to understand explanation, I will try it out.

Jay

stathem
08-22-2008, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jayhall0315:
Stathem - The answer is, nothing essential that I can think of. Just download the correct CM for either XP or Vista and be sure to follow the installation instructions on the sheet of paper that came with your stick exactly. CH products are a little finicky with the initial software setup and calibration.

Jay </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheers Jay. Gonna take me a little while to get my head round the CM software.

dirkpit7
08-22-2008, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris0382:
.
.
.
I have zoom in-out on my larger rotary.

I have rudder trim on the X-52 slider and its OK but not as good as I like it. That slider is stiff and jerky and not free sliding and center is hard to note.
.
.
.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not to change these two then? Rudder trim works very well on the rotary and the slider can be programmed for smooth zooming. That's how I have them set up.

Bearcat99
08-22-2008, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dirkpit7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris0382:
.
.
.
I have zoom in-out on my larger rotary.

I have rudder trim on the X-52 slider and its OK but not as good as I like it. That slider is stiff and jerky and not free sliding and center is hard to note.
.
.
.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not to change these two then? Rudder trim works very well on the rotary and the slider can be programmed for smooth zooming. That's how I have them set up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO if tyou do not have a TIR (Or even if you do and you are not using the 6DoF mod..) the best way to get zoom aside from 6DoF is to put &gt; & &lt; FOV (Field of View) on a switch.. preferably a hat switch of some kind in opposite positions .. as in either 12 & 6 or 3 & 9.. then set the delay to make it as smooth as you like.. Save the sliders for things in the HOTAS section... For rudder trim I use the ball to determine where it is.. so I don't need a detent (Although the X-45 has one) for that pot.. but for elevator & aileron trim a detent is good... and evemn then I use the instruments.. the climb indicator and the horizon indicator..

Chris0382
08-22-2008, 01:05 PM
Good idea with the FOV switch. I did this with my CS using an interval timer and it worked well. I wanted to try it on a slider and Saiteks software isnt very good.

Im putting it back on B7-B9 of the CS and puttin my wheel brakes on B4 as it has no effect in the air and wont hurt to double it up with the shift button B4.

I just cant move the rotary fine enough for the rudder trim as I use it for aiming and thats all. The slider seems easier but Ive had the throttle for 7 days now and will try different things.

AS i mentioned, I may go TIR4 and use the mouse stick for rudder trim and elevator trim.

ZOOM FOV Script

//ZOOM IN "KP+" JS1.B9

TIMER ( INTERVAL, D6, 1, 5 ) = JS1.B9 AND NOT (JS1.B4 AND JS1.B9);
CMS.B6 = D6;

//ZOOM OUT "KP-" JS1.B7

TIMER ( INTERVAL, D7, 1, 5 ) = JS1.B7 AND NOT (JS1.B4 AND JS1.B7);
CMS.B7 = D7;

dirkpit7
08-22-2008, 01:18 PM
I saw you asked about IL-2 Sticks in other thread and it should allow you to adjust the rotary sensivity. I use JoyCtrl and it works fine, I can make small adjustment easily.

Chris0382
08-22-2008, 01:43 PM
will do Dirkpit7

Thanks guy.

and yes Bearcat, the panel cant be overlooked for good reasons as you state. Another reason to get TIR for easy viewing not to mention the price drop.

Chris0382
08-22-2008, 05:40 PM
Well here is what Im experimenting with.

X52 Main throttle axis = elevator trim (use a lot and has natural up down movement)

X52 Lower Rotary = rudder trim (has natural left - right movement)

X52 Slider = throttle speed (corse and doesnt need to be as accurate - no detent needed).DABBED WITH HOT GLUE GUN GLUE FOR BETTER GRIP.

X52 Front Hat = Flaps up down - gear up/down and manual landing gear.DABBED WITH HOT GLUE GUN GLUE FOR BETTER GRIP.

Wheel of CH Combatstick = (eject - parachute; need something I don't always accidently hit)

IL2-STICKS = great success and works well.

X52 Upper rotary = free and undecided (hard to use requires lifting thumb and is not natural).

WTE_Ibis
08-23-2008, 12:03 AM
Anyone know where I can get X45 throttle pots? mine is now kaput after 5/6 years.
I love this throttle in conjunction with my CH Fighter stick.
thanks,
Ibis.

coturnix
08-23-2008, 12:31 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/coturnix/IMG_2338a-1.jpg

Bearcat99
08-23-2008, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
Anyone know where I can get X45 throttle pots? mine is now kaput after 5/6 years.
I love this throttle in conjunction with my CH Fighter stick.
thanks,
Ibis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like t too.. you can try to contact Saitek... For me the pots and the rocker switch are the draws..

dirkpit7
08-23-2008, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> X52 Upper rotary = free and undecided (hard to use requires lifting thumb and is not natural). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's easiest to use with the forefinger.

Interesting set-up you have there, especially concerning the throttle and elevator trim...but if you like it, well, that's most important I guess.

crucislancer
08-23-2008, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jayhall0315:
Just curious as to what IL2 functions the Saitek X-52 users are mapping to their rotary dials on their joystick and throttle. Also, their are some guys out there who have the very nice nice Franken Potato mod of the CH Pro Throttle. What do you guys have mapped to the two rotary dials that Ken installed for you ?

The reason I am asking is because I sometimes run across excellent opponents who seem to have flaps and maybe the elevator trim mapped to rotaries and they are harder to bring down in HL obviously.

Thanks,
Jay </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On my X52, I have elevator trim on the large top rotary, rudder trim on the smaller rotary, prop pitch on the slider, and flaps on the mouse wheel.

Chris0382
08-23-2008, 04:12 PM
My forefinger doesnt grip the upper rotary very good and it may need a bead of rubbery hot glue around it also and then maybe I can move it better. Its quite stiff to move.

wayno7777
08-24-2008, 10:18 AM
I have flaps assigned to a rotary so I have adjustable flaps in Spits and Hurris....

jayhall0315
08-24-2008, 10:28 PM
Chris and Crucislancer - Thanks for your inputs. I definitely want to pass this along to the new guys who happen to download my Newbie's Guide to IL2 Joystick Setups. I am always looking for a better (read, faster), more ergonomical method of setting up the controls so things are more responsive in a dogfight.

In my first month with Hyperlobby I would sometimes get shot down by good opponents simply because of my ergonomical setup and not because I did not know what to do. Now, I have the controls better arranged on my CH gear, but I am still trying to optimize for an even better approach.

I appreciate your help.

Jay

Chris0382
08-25-2008, 03:44 AM
I really like elevator trim on the main throttle axis as I use it constantly. Its working good.

I may give flaps a try on the X52 upper rotary. But Im thinking of addinG flaps to the Combat Stick wheel and making a button to go flaps=20 degrees foR combat purposes afterwards. x52 doesnt seem to have any programming language capabilities like CH Prods do.

If you can get a Frankenpotato you will be fortunate. Rumor has it due to the possibility of a new cold war outbreak that the Frankenpotato may get tooled up and back into production. Got to see how world events progress.

Take care

Chris