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andrew8412
01-05-2011, 04:56 AM
I'm attracted to this boat due to it's ease of handling but I'm really not sure how I should be approaching it. On paper it just screams 'allied anton' with it's powerful armament, high rate of acceleration and superb role rate however that style of high speed energy fighting is made extremely impractical due to the fact that the P-38's elevator locks up at speeds above 630km/h. It can turn quite well by using it's airbrake but it is an awfully large target and it wouldn't seem wise to get into a turning fight with the nimble japanese fighters it is frequently matched against.

Any suggestions gentlemen?

andrew8412
01-05-2011, 04:56 AM
I'm attracted to this boat due to it's ease of handling but I'm really not sure how I should be approaching it. On paper it just screams 'allied anton' with it's powerful armament, high rate of acceleration and superb role rate however that style of high speed energy fighting is made extremely impractical due to the fact that the P-38's elevator locks up at speeds above 630km/h. It can turn quite well by using it's airbrake but it is an awfully large target and it wouldn't seem wise to get into a turning fight with the nimble japanese fighters it is frequently matched against.

Any suggestions gentlemen?

DKoor
01-05-2011, 05:54 AM
It is the Germans that have you matched down... Japanese can mostly watch and cry since many of their fighters simply lack speed to chase you successfully. The most dangerous opponents thus were and remain to be so, FW-190A9, FW-190D9, Bf-109G6AS/10/K4.
Those are that can outmatch your P-38L_LATE in fair fight so... engage them when you are in favorable position and run when you aren't.
P-38J is actually a surprisingly dominant fighter, it rocks its era in game more so that it's later incarnation. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

M_Gunz
01-05-2011, 06:49 AM
P-38 has a yoke, not a stick. It's a steering wheel that pulls and pushes. What else uses yokes, usually in pairs?

andrew8412
01-05-2011, 07:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
P-38 has a yoke, not a stick. It's a steering wheel that pulls and pushes. What else uses yokes, usually in pairs? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's obviously extremely powerful when used as a bomber or zestrorer but that's not what this thread is about. It has the performance of a fighter so the way I see it you have a responsibility to use that performance to assist and protect your allies. Simply ground pounding and sneaking back home isn't utilizing the plane to it's fullest potential for your team.

RAF_OldBuzzard
01-05-2011, 08:19 AM
With the P-38J, you can recover by backing off the throttle a bit, and JUDICIOUS use of up elevator trim. With the L and L-Late, just pop the dive recovery flaps. It WILL pitch up, slow down a bit, and recover.

Three rules to remember with a '38.

1. Don't try to "turn n burn".

2 Don't ever, try to "turn n burn".

3 Don't NEVER ever, try to "turn n burn".

Flown properly, the '38 is one of the best energy fighters in the game.

If it weren't for the porked 'compressibility' modeling and damage modeling (a spit ball tossed your way will take the tail off), it would be flown by a lot more people that is is now.

Treetop64
01-05-2011, 12:08 PM
Yep.

Fly the P-38 they way she wants to be flown (always start high and stay fast) and you'll be virtually unmatchable except against a very few late-war machines.

Not sure about the compressibility being "porked", though. That was a real danger in the real thing. It is, however, way too delicate in the game. Even rifle caliber rounds will dismember the rear quarter... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

VW-IceFire
01-05-2011, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RAF_OldBuzzard:
With the P-38J, you can recover by backing off the throttle a bit, and JUDICIOUS use of up elevator trim. With the L and L-Late, just pop the dive recovery flaps. It WILL pitch up, slow down a bit, and recover.

Three rules to remember with a '38.

1. Don't try to "turn n burn".

2 Don't ever, try to "turn n burn".

3 Don't NEVER ever, try to "turn n burn".

Flown properly, the '38 is one of the best energy fighters in the game.

If it weren't for the porked 'compressibility' modeling and damage modeling (a spit ball tossed your way will take the tail off), it would be flown by a lot more people that is is now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're absolutely right about not doing the turn and burn, however, with great difficult the P-38 CAN sustain a very low speed fight in a 1v1 situation against even a relatively agile fighter like the 109G-2. I've had three or four dogfights like that where I was able to use the P-38s extreme stability in high angle-of-attack situations to force the 109 pilot do something that he didn't want to do - ultimately going in front of my guns and getting shot down.

Not recommended... but if you fly the P-38 as a fighter then you should be aware that in certain desperate circumstances you can go extremely slow and manage to win. Use of combat flaps is very much necessary to assist in any of these low speed maneuvers.

My only other suggestions are to generally avoid the low speed fight (despite what I said), stay fast and practice your gunnery. The P-38 rewards precision gunnery to the point that you can do more damage with a 38 than most other fighters because there is so much firepower concentrated in a very small area. Other fighters may have more total firepower but the P-38 puts all four .50cals and the one 20mm cannon in pretty much the same spot so any hit on target is going to be devastating. Practice! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RAF_OldBuzzard
01-05-2011, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64: ... Not sure about the compressibility being "porked", though. That was a real danger in the real thing. It is, however, way too delicate in the game. Even rifle caliber rounds will dismember the rear quarter... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's porked, be sure . That's been discused on multiple occasions here on the Zoo.

The P-38 would only get into compressibility at altitudes ABOVE 20,000'/7,000M. At altitudes under that, the '38 couldn't reach a high enough Mach number to get into compressibility.

Treetop64
01-05-2011, 04:39 PM
Ahhh... I see.

True.

tomtheyak
01-05-2011, 05:38 PM
Yeah, the -38s RL Mach number was, reportedly 0.68. At high alt that's .68 of 660mph, so that's about 449mph TAS at 30,000ft or ~374mph indicated - quite easy to reach up there in a dive.

At sea level that same mach number equates to up to 517mph TAS, a struggle for any piston a/c to reach!

These are generalities naturally.

Regards dogfighting; I love her! If there's lots of bogeys I stay fast - slashing attacks are the order of the day - and use the P-38s excellent fast shallow climb; in the L_Late at WEP I had 250mph IAS and the VSI at 3000ft/min!

If I'm 99.99% sure I'm alone and unlikely to be interrupted I'll get slow and turn with any bandit save the Japanese stuff, unless I can make a 1/4 turn to pull off a shot, at which point I unload, disengage and run/climb.

I'll take on any 109 1-on-1 in the equivalent year 38, 190s too tho the Doras are a menace and you need buddies/cloud/aaa around to give him something other to think about than you. Similarly A9s are potent foes.

Late war IJN/IJA planes are scary tho. Franks, Ki-100s and Jacks are scary mothers to go up against as they outrun, outturn and outclimb you; not many options to those fights.

As with most fights in any a/c tho, bring a trusted friend (or more!) along who you can teamwork with, keep your SA, your alt and your speed high to give you options and don't forget to get some long range shooting practise in with that lovely armament: I've plinked some guys at 600+m with a speculative burst thanks to the concentrated firepower of the 38.

PS: TRIM! In pitch use it abundantly - I work it hard in all my flight regimes to give me the smallest stick throw necessary. In turn-fights/landing or any low+slow regime have plenty of back elevator trim in; controlling is much easier for making adjustments for both shooting and/or flaring to land.

thefruitbat
01-05-2011, 06:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Yeah, the -38s RL Mach number was, reportedly 0.68. At high alt that's .68 of 660mph, so that's about 449mph TAS at 30,000ft or ~374mph indicated - quite easy to reach up there in a dive.

At sea level that same mach number equates to up to 517mph TAS, a struggle for any piston a/c to reach!

These are generalities naturally.

Regards dogfighting; I love her! If there's lots of bogeys I stay fast - slashing attacks are the order of the day - and use the P-38s excellent fast shallow climb; in the L_Late at WEP I had 250mph IAS and the VSI at 3000ft/min!

If I'm 99.99% sure I'm alone and unlikely to be interrupted I'll get slow and turn with any bandit save the Japanese stuff, unless I can make a 1/4 turn to pull off a shot, at which point I unload, disengage and run/climb.

I'll take on any 109 1-on-1 in the equivalent year 38, 190s too tho the Doras are a menace and you need buddies/cloud/aaa around to give him something other to think about than you. Similarly A9s are potent foes.

Late war IJN/IJA planes are scary tho. Franks, Ki-100s and Jacks are scary mothers to go up against as they outrun, outturn and outclimb you; not many options to those fights.

As with most fights in any a/c tho, bring a trusted friend (or more!) along who you can teamwork with, keep your SA, your alt and your speed high to give you options and don't forget to get some long range shooting practise in with that lovely armament: I've plinked some guys at 600+m with a speculative burst thanks to the concentrated firepower of the 38.

PS: TRIM! In pitch use it abundantly - I work it hard in all my flight regimes to give me the smallest stick throw necessary. In turn-fights/landing or any low+slow regime have plenty of back elevator trim in; controlling is much easier for making adjustments for both shooting and/or flaring to land. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd listen to this, one of the best p38 fighter pilots i've come across.

i regularly see him taking on 109's and 190s (A' and D's) and winning, something that i can't do in that plane for sure (give me my p51 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif)

WTE_Galway
01-05-2011, 08:33 PM
Posted this before but no harm putting it up again:

1943 Medal of Honor Winner Joe Foss, USMC - Regarding his service at Guadalcanal as a pilot, April 1943 (F4F Wildcat, 26 victories)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Aircraft/VMF-121/


THE P-38

Q. What was your impression of the P-38's?

A. The P-38 is really a good plane as an interceptor, above 20,000 feet. If you get notice that a bogey is coming in, and don't have much time, give it to the P-38's; they can really get up there. If it's above 20,000 feet they make their runs, go on out far enough to make a turn, and come back for another run, When the P-38's were sparring around with me, they would buzz way down below me, take a look, then go up through a hole in the clouds, take a short look around and come back down. They ran all around the sky while I was doing my best just to stay where I was.

Q. Was any attempt made to use them at the limit of their range?

A. They went clear up to Bougainville. They sent P-38's to fly cover on B-17's and on B-24's. There would be Zeros above them and below them would be more Zeros, float bi-planes and float Zeros, but their orders were to stay in formation with the bombers. If any of the enemy fighters made an attack, they'd just pull up, give a short burst, and the enemy fighter would pull right back up out of range. When they failed to do this one day, three of them were shot down. They went down below 20,000 feet to get some "easy meat", (these float bi-planes that can turn on a dime) - went down and tried to dogfight - that was the end of three P-38's.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

M_Gunz
01-05-2011, 09:40 PM
Yokes are slower to use than sticks is what I'm saying. Try flying IL2 with a yoke instead of stick some time. Maybe it will feel more natural for P-38, Mossie, etc?

RAF_OldBuzzard
01-05-2011, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Yokes are slower to use than sticks is what I'm saying. ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even if yokes WERE slower, they were fast enough in the '38s case, that it was the plane flown by the top 2 American aces in WWII, with another '38 pilot being in the top 10.

Also, after the '38Js got aileron boost, that argument doesn't hold water.

M_Gunz
01-06-2011, 04:06 AM
At the speeds they flew successfully in combat, you don't want to make snap moves on any axis. But it's not such an asset when you're not going so fast you might bend the plane.

PhantomKira
01-06-2011, 08:35 AM
P-38J is my favorite Allied airplane, though I fly mostly Pacific. Fw-190 when I want to fly blue side (cannons = FIREPOWER!!!). The J is slightly faster than the L, and even though you have to watch the dive, if you're careful, you can keep it in check. Not to beat a dead horse, but don't get slow, especially in a crowded environment. It's all to easy to loose track of speed (especially in a dive), and it doesn't take but one slightly to tight turn to bleed enough energy for the enemy to get the advantage, at which point they'll be all over you. Even with a single opponent, trying to turn with them is hazardous, due to the time it takes to build up that energy again. I've done it, but more then once, someone else has shown up at a very inopportune time, right after I got the guy, but am too slow to defend effectively. Remember, a zero energy fighter is a dead fighter. I've gotten more than one Ki-43 when he was doing his good old "flip turn" at the top of a loop - zero energy.

It's ridiculously stable, with zero tendency to fall off on a wing in a stall, provided you the ball centered. This means that it CAN be a good low speed platform, assuming you're willing to take that risk. Combat flaps are mandatory for turning.

The yoke gave real pilot's some extra pull should they need it to haul around with both hands.

Two engines are great, and not so great. Good if you get one shot out - you can still get home, but bad since the aircraft is so BIG and is a BIG target, should you happen to cross someone's sights. It does provide a LOT of power and propeller surface area (= performance), though, so you can give the unwary single engine guy a shock.

As with any aircraft, trim is your friend. Get the flight condition you want, then trim for hands off, neutral stick force. It'll fly itself if trimmed correctly, and with much more stability than a single due to the counter-rotating props.

There is a "secret" with the J, though some may regard it as a cheat. Combat flaps won't jam at any speed, so they can be used effectively as "dive puller outers", with the same effect as the dive brakes on the L models.

C.W.M.V.
01-07-2011, 02:23 PM
I'm definitely one of those that thinks the compressibility is porked, as IRL it became an issue at around 500+ MPH (mach .68), not 300 like in the game!
Regardless the 38 is my second favorite allied fighter after the P-40. I'm a junkie for 20mm's.
To paraphrase Hartmann, turn fighting is for suckers.