PDA

View Full Version : p-38



XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 03:57 PM
I was looking on some pictures of it and it looks like it have one wing shorter then other,,,,is it so?


P.S. hope not..CUZ its UGLY!

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 03:57 PM
I was looking on some pictures of it and it looks like it have one wing shorter then other,,,,is it so?


P.S. hope not..CUZ its UGLY!

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 04:17 PM
All the pics I see in Dev. Updates seem okay to me. This is the J model.
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/26Sep/P-38J_1.jpg



http://www.assonetart.com/APairofAces.jpg

Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~haiku

Message Edited on 12/14/03 07:20AM by MustangWZI

Message Edited on 12/14/0308:27AM by MustangWZI

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 04:18 PM
oh../i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif ....LOL..ok..I need go to doktor I think/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 04:23 PM
what arnament have it?

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 04:42 PM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:
- what arnament have it?

4 x 0.50 Cal Browning (500rpg), 1 x 20mm Hispano (150 rpg), all in the nose /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg


Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 04:49 PM
- (4) .50 calibur guns in nose.
- (1) 20MM cannon in nose.
or
- (16) HVAR Rockets.
or
- (2) 1000lb/2000KG bombs.
or
- (2) Drop Tanks.
or
- (2) 2X .50 calibur gun pods on wings.

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-52.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-60.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-59.jpg

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-57.jpg


I can't wait! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.assonetart.com/APairofAces.jpg

Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~haiku

Message Edited on 12/14/0307:51AM by MustangWZI

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 04:52 PM
holys***/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif thats cool...

Mustang can u be by any chance mustang that just joined VMF513?(saw he was registred, but havent talked to him yet)

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 05:00 PM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:
- Mustang can u be by any chance mustang that just
- joined VMF513?

Nope, I'm currently flying solo. I've never joined a squadron, yet.

http://www.assonetart.com/APairofAces.jpg

Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~haiku

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 05:03 PM
oh..ok.., but if u change your minde visit www.vmf513.com (http://www.vmf513.com) /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 05:15 PM
OMFG MATE i cant wait to fly that thing, look at the bloody kit hanging off of it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ,

what was the P38 like for turn fighting, i know its pretty damn hot for energy fighting /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 07:03 PM
I think the P-38 is the toughest of all birds to model correctly...It's going to depend on how Oleg models it...

I know that way up high...models up to J-25LO didn't have dive breaks so they didn't do well up there...below 18,000 ft. there were no problems with compressability. In the late J models and L models use of dive breaks and using engine tourqe by cutting power to one could cause the Lightning to out turn just about anything that flew...especially with a nose down attitude. The L model had power boosted ailerons which gave it a roll rate up there with the FW...but I don't have data to say which one was greater.

The L model was largely replace by the Mustang for air to air combat so I don't think it saw its potential in this arena. I've read the Luftwaffe pilots took the Lightning as an easy target up high but below 20,000 ft it was a force to be reckoned with. The J model was the fastest of the versions that saw combat with a top speed of 414 mph or something like that.

There was one account from a top german ace where a L model lightning chased him to the deck, filling him full of holes and eventually the Lightning broke off the engagement due to fuel...something about a butterfly move???whatever that is and later in life the two pilots met and discovered they were the pilots in the engagement...the Luftwaffe pilot was flying a FW-190D.

If Oleg models all the tricky stuff...I think the J and especially the L model will be very good below 20,000 both in energy and turn fighting...but we'll have to see how far he goes with it. I have high hopes...I don't know if there was a prop plane that could outclimb it?

It is one of my favorites and I think I'm looking forward to that bird almost as much as the Spitfires.

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 09:57 PM
"what was the P38 like for turn fighting, i know its pretty damn hot for energy fighting"


Contrary to what a lot of people think, the P-38 can turn an incredibly tight circle. One technique used by Americans in trouble with FW190s was to get Germans to follow them in that circle, down low, then slowly begin to climb. The P-38 could maintain a tight and slow upward spiral that the FW190 could not match. The P-38 pilot would soon have the advantage.

Advantages of the P-38:

1. Speed
2. Concentrated firepower
3. Rate of climb (Richard Bong said it climbed "like a homesick angel")
4. Can fly on one engine in emergency
5. Rugged construction
6. Excellent sustained turn rate

Disadvantages:

1. Large target
2. Poor rate of roll
3. Problems with high-speed compressability
4. Problems with cockpit heating (sit on an icepack while flying to increase the realism of your experience)

The P-38 was very dominant in the Pacific, where its shortcomings were compensated for by its superiority in speed over Japanese fighters. As an aside, this is one of things that pi$$ed me off about CFS2: The P-38 was so poorly modeled.


I for one can hardly wait. I love the P-38.

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 11:30 PM
Interesting placement of those rocket tubes...as I remember, the P-38 carried 10 rockets, 5 under each wing (outboard of booms) on inverted triangle style 0-length launch rods...

XyZspineZyX
12-14-2003, 11:40 PM
http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-60.jpg


OUCH!

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/chimpy_2.jpg



"They had missed a good opportunity to keep their mouths shut". - Jack Chirac

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 02:18 AM
Forty kills for Bong in the Lightning!...Can't wait to
fly it!

http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/MACKANE.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 03:11 AM
Bronco_Nagurski wrote:

- The P-38 was very dominant in the Pacific, where its
- shortcomings were compensated for by its superiority
- in speed over Japanese fighters. As an aside, this
- is one of things that pi$$ed me off about CFS2: The
- P-38 was so poorly modeled.
-
-
- I for one can hardly wait. I love the P-38.

You're right...it was horrible in cfs2. Couldn't even bnz in it...impossible to get any speed out of it. And it climbed like a rock weighted down with anvils.

Can't wait for the add-on.

I've never seen or read anything where the Lightning had gun-pods...Any idea what this did to performance?

Can you imagine 8 .50's and the 20mm converged on a target? Boom!

http://palpatine.chez.tiscali.fr/Dilbert/Fist-Of-Death.gif


ALICE FOR MODERATOR!

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 05:42 AM
Richard Bong used to tighten his turns by altering the prop pitch on either or both engines. Don't know if any other P-38 drivers did that but can't wait to see it works with the Maddox magic.

<center>OC
<img src=http://www.brennt.com/hoppers/images/oldcanuck.jpg></center>


<center>You don't stop playing because you grow old,
you grow old because you stop playing.</center>

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 06:11 AM
Please oh please let them get this one right without 3 patches to be competative....read competitive, not dominate, not uber, just not porked.

I don't think I could take the heartbreak

...................................
"I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash."

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 07:34 AM
I wonder if we can het it like this but with Gunpods instead of the 10 Rocket trees?
http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-38-60.jpg



<CENTER>http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1091.gif <CENTER><FONT COLOR="RED">A proud member Squadron of Ghost Skies Forgotten Battles Tournament League.
WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT (http://WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT) COLOR="blue">Please visit the 310th FS & 380th BG Online @:<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange">http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron/<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange"> 310th VFS Public forum:
<CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW">http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/<CENTER><CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW"> Get my USAAF 8th AF Squadron Insignia Files @ IL-2Skins ('http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=4206')
<FONT COLOR="purple">Slainte Mhath- Good Health to you!

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 07:50 AM
i hope there aren't huge muzzel flashes when firing all those guns

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 08:33 AM
I think all will be. Maybe not the 16 HVAR, but yes on the 10. 16 (10 HVAR and 6 bazooka) was kinda a wish on my side. I doubt they used it with the HVAR's. The 6 bazooka tubes on the center gondola was an early thing, HVAR a late thing. But the 2x .50 cal will be in. I gave Oleg plenty of proof that they were used. It was a late war thing for straifing the small jap boats and giving photo recon aircraft some teeth. I also have it confirmed that some P-38's were equiped with 4 20MM in the nose, but Oleg wont go for field-mods like that unless it was widely used. But I would love the 4 20MM and 4 .50 cal gunpod loadout. It would have the most firepower in the game.

Gib

Wing_Master wrote:
- MustangWZI wrote:
--- (4) .50 calibur guns in nose.
-- - (1) 20MM cannon in nose.
--
-- or
-- - (16) HVAR Rockets.
--
-- or
-- - (2) 1000lb/2000KG bombs.
--
-- or
-- - (2) Drop Tanks.
--
-- or
-- - (2) 2X .50 calibur gun pods on wings.
-
- Does anyone know if all these loadouts will be
- availalbe in the pay add-on?
-
-
-
-
- Message Edited on 12/15/03 02:19AM by
- Wing_Master



No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 09:25 AM
Bronco_Nagurski wrote:

Great post. I also read one pilot's comments who called it the coldest plane in the world.

He went on to comment about blockage in his relief tube due to freezing. Who cares about the roll rate at that point. Yellow tinted canopy anyone?

I wonder how often the PKs will come.



"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 09:27 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
I also have it confirmed that
- some P-38's were equiped with 4 20MM in the nose,
- but Oleg wont go for field-mods like that unless it
- was widely used.


Ummm Gibbage Can we Bribe him? If we like slip him a couple bills while the Luftwhiners aint looking? i'm seroius! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<CENTER>http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1091.gif <CENTER><FONT COLOR="RED">A proud member Squadron of Ghost Skies Forgotten Battles Tournament League.
WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT (http://WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT) COLOR="blue">Please visit the 310th FS & 380th BG Online @:<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange">http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron/<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange"> 310th VFS Public forum:
<CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW">http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/<CENTER><CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW"> Get my USAAF 8th AF Squadron Insignia Files @ IL-2Skins ('http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=4206')
<FONT COLOR="purple">Slainte Mhath- Good Health to you!

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 09:50 AM
I have well over 40 books on the P-38 lightning and units that flew them in all theaters of operation. The 50 cal gun pods are mentioned in a few books, like 1-3 books. but only as experimental armament. fitted to a few P-38s for experimentation.

I have never seen pics or read about the use of 10 hvars on xmas tree launchers used in conjuntion with the six bazooka type launchers. The only type of non standard armament I have seen or read about employed by units in the field to a large extent would be 2 x 2,000 lb bombs plus 6 x 300 lb bombs for a 5,200 lb bomb load. I believe it was used to some extent in north africa and the italian campains. infact I believe that the x mas tree launchers were only used in the pto.

I have seen pics of the 8 50 cal in the nose, but believe this was only one proto type, since only one book I have shows pics of the 8 50s and none of the other 40 plus books even mention it, this would also lead me to believe that it was "experimental" infact the same book which shows the 8 50 cal is also the same book which shows the 50 cal gun pods.

I have never heard of 4 x 20mm in the nose, but I have seen experimental armament of 2 short barrel 20 mm plus the 4 50s.

there is a documented case of one P-38 that was fitted with six 50s in the nose and one 20 mm. it was in the pto.

the 5,200 lbs of external ordinance used with a fully armed and gased P-38 was considered to be the limit, not so much that the P-38 couldnt lift more weight than this, but I believe the tires started to become the limiting factor.

there was a post a few months back about the lighting getting the K-14 gun sight, well I looked and looked at all my 40 plus books that have hundreds of pics in them. I can only find one pic and one reference which shows the k-14 gun sight. they are both in the same book by squadron signal. "walk around" P-38. even in that book it states something to the extent that, the K-14 was dropped due to a shortage of the gun sight.

now I am far from a lightning basher. I have defended the lightning for atleast four years online. I have read a lot of misinformation on the plane and I have endured the "boy genius" types who know how to "calculate a/c performance" because they are either in college or hold some type of nasa masters degree. these are the same genius types who can do their calculations and tell you how a bumble bee cannot fly. so do not confuse me with this type of anti lightning type. I am far from it.

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 09:57 AM
Looks like some extremely common version, LOL. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Typical Gibb stuff.

Ok, Ok, to be fair, Mk 103 pods on 190s weren`t so common either. MK 108 was, though (God bless Rheinmetall! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ).

http://www.mit.bme.hu/~tade/ac-pict/Hung-AF/pre-1945/Bf-109/Bf109col.gif

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 10:07 AM
Issy what are you doing in here trolling around? i thought i smelled you. Go away.

<CENTER>http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1091.gif <CENTER><FONT COLOR="RED">A proud member Squadron of Ghost Skies Forgotten Battles Tournament League.
WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT (http://WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT) COLOR="blue">Please visit the 310th FS & 380th BG Online @:<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange">http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron/<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange"> 310th VFS Public forum:
<CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW">http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/<CENTER><CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW"> Get my USAAF 8th AF Squadron Insignia Files @ IL-2Skins ('http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=4206')
<FONT COLOR="purple">Slainte Mhath- Good Health to you!

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 10:12 AM
Just laughing at you m8, nothing more. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"DB 610 was a radial engine"
-Gibbage, Pillar of Community and Local Smarta$$

This is how a radial engine looks like according to poor Gibb:

http://www.luftarchiv.de/motoren/db_610.jpg


Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 10:17 AM
First, I said the gunpods were not common. 2nd I said I doubt the bazooka tubes were used with the X-mas tree. I never said it was common, but I had enough proof that it was used enough in OLEG's book to get into the game. At least I can admit when I am wrong, something you have no ability of doing.

GIb

Vo101_Isegrim wrote:
-
- Looks like some extremely common version,
- LOL. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Typical Gibb stuff.
-
- Ok, Ok, to be fair, Mk 103 pods on 190s weren`t so
- common either. MK 108 was, though (God bless
- Rheinmetall! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ).
-
- <img
- src="http://www.mit.bme.hu/~tade/ac-pict/Hung-AF/p
- re-1945/Bf-109/Bf109col.gif">
-
- Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
- (Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto
- of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)
-
- Flight tests and other aviation performance data:
- http://www.pbase.com/isegrim



No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
12-15-2003, 10:25 AM
Issy at the risk of being banned....STFU.
Stop by CWOS or the 310th Public forums some time here i can tell you what i really think of you. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Have a nice day.

<CENTER>http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1091.gif <CENTER><FONT COLOR="RED">A proud member Squadron of Ghost Skies Forgotten Battles Tournament League.
WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT (http://WWW.Ghostskies.com<CENTER><FONT) COLOR="blue">Please visit the 310th FS & 380th BG Online @:<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange">http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron/<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange"> 310th VFS Public forum:
<CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW">http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/<CENTER><CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW"> Get my USAAF 8th AF Squadron Insignia Files @ IL-2Skins ('http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=4206')
<FONT COLOR="purple">Slainte Mhath- Good Health to you!

tagert
12-18-2003, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
First, I said the gunpods were not common. 2nd I said I doubt the bazooka tubes were used with the X-mas tree. I never said it was common, but I had enough proof that it was used enough in OLEG's book to get into the game. At least I can admit when I am wrong, something you have no ability of doing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont worrie about it too much Gib! Isgrime is just funny that way.. In that he has no problem complaining that the P38 should not have gun pods because they were not standard or common.. yet in the next breath he will defend the use of fletner tabs on a 109K even though they were not standard or common.. Heck you can not even find one picture of a 109K with flettner tabs! But that does not stop him... In a nut shell anything that is added to alied AC for any reason Isgrime will complain about it.. anything that is added to axis AC for any reason Isgrime will defend it.

TAGERT

tagert
12-18-2003, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bronco_Nagurski:
Disadvantages:

1. Large target
2. Poor rate of roll
3. Problems with high-speed compressability
4. Problems with cockpit heating (sit on an icepack while flying to increase the realism of your experience)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the poor rate of roll was fixed on the later models... I think the L or H model? After the fix the P38 had one of the fastest roll rates... And the high speed compressability was fixed early on too.

TAGERT