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View Full Version : Am I hopeless, or is the Jug just the best thing high up?



Grand_Armee
09-05-2007, 12:53 AM
OK...I'm an axis flyer. Haven't spent much time in Allied planes, and not sure I wanna. However, I always have this happen to me:

BTW...usual mounts up high are bf-109K and Fw-190D.

I get high...say 7K meters. Suddenly I'm confronted by some speedster in the jug whom repeated scans of the sky tell me shouldn't be there. Anyway....he is. What to do?

Even if I have good E, I never have enough to catch him should I get behind him. I can't outturn him. My crate wallows about like a drunken elephant on rollerblades while that Jug takes the corner like a ferrari driven by Ralph Schumacher. Oftimes he's gotten through his turn while I'm trying to turn wide enough to avoid losing my E.

So..should I give up...or is there something to learn?

Grand_Armee
09-05-2007, 12:53 AM
OK...I'm an axis flyer. Haven't spent much time in Allied planes, and not sure I wanna. However, I always have this happen to me:

BTW...usual mounts up high are bf-109K and Fw-190D.

I get high...say 7K meters. Suddenly I'm confronted by some speedster in the jug whom repeated scans of the sky tell me shouldn't be there. Anyway....he is. What to do?

Even if I have good E, I never have enough to catch him should I get behind him. I can't outturn him. My crate wallows about like a drunken elephant on rollerblades while that Jug takes the corner like a ferrari driven by Ralph Schumacher. Oftimes he's gotten through his turn while I'm trying to turn wide enough to avoid losing my E.

So..should I give up...or is there something to learn?

robban75
09-05-2007, 01:06 AM
Online or offline?

Online. If his E is higher than yours to begin with, you're in trouble, same goes if he is above you. Also, the P-47 really comes into its own at these alts. It's not really superior up there, just really good(the Spitfire is a much tougher opponent)! Try to sucker him down to lower altitude. If that wont work. Try and make him lose sight of you, extend, and climb to a higher alt and go back and look for him again. Make only VERY gentle manouvers at high alt, especially in the Fw 190D in order to conserve energy.

Offline. The computer flies the P-47 better than any human pilot. For some reason(or so it seems) the computer can pick up speed faster in a dive, and loose less of it in a climb. The computer also never black out, it doesn't suffer from heavy controls or overheated engines, it's airframe will not overstress either. To top it off it can shoot you in the eye if given a chance. There some easy way to fool the computer. A good scissor fight will help alot, and if you end up at low alt, just go as low as you dare. The computer wont follow you there.

Friendly_flyer
09-05-2007, 01:08 AM
The Thunderbolt is a very good plane for high altitude fighting. It is not the most agile of planes, and those who are good at it are usually masterful fliers. Thus you are probably up against good planes in their right environment, flown by good pilots.

Waldo.Pepper
09-05-2007, 01:24 AM
I think that this shows the clear evidence of pro us airplane bias. (should I add a smiley to let you all know I am kidding?)

MrMojok
09-05-2007, 02:43 AM
I don't know if you are talking online or offline.

But if it's online.... be advised-- if you fly blue and go up that high, you are taking your life in your hands. There be some awesome Jug drivers hanging around up there.

JG52Uther
09-05-2007, 03:24 AM
7k is not high.

Von_Rat
09-05-2007, 03:30 AM
as robben said,, if your not well above them, leave and come back higher.

Feathered_IV
09-05-2007, 03:43 AM
Imagine what it must've been like to face sixteen or more of them up there. All well coordinated and howling for your blood.

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-05-2007, 08:30 AM
Jug is new best...be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Above 20,000ft every model is simply a pleasure to fly. As stated, they still aren't the most maneuverable but with speed, a stout damage model and lack-of-overheat advantage, they are easily the toughest...though I wouldn't really know.

Jure_502
09-05-2007, 09:06 AM
Yeeeeeeee...I hate them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Jaws2002
09-05-2007, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grand_Armee:
OK...I'm an axis flyer. Haven't spent much time in Allied planes, and not sure I wanna. So..should I give up...or is there something to learn? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is right here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

If you don't fly it you'll never know how it is up there and what it can do up there...

"Suddenly I'm confronted by some speedster in the jug whom repeated scans of the sky tell me <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">shouldn't be there</span>. Anyway....he is."

...and just like in your quote above here you think it "shouldn't be there", giving a clear hint that you think something is wrong with that picture.

Go fly it for three four weeks and you'll know exactly what it can do and what it can't.

Honestly, without flying it you'll tend to think is really uber.

If you look in this forum, you'll notice that only people that never fly the other team's planes cry and scream uber and porked. You know how they say, Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I think you should take the Jug for a spin. Is an absolute joy to fly. You'll love it.

If you don't, your loss.

carguy_
09-05-2007, 09:51 AM
If I encounter a P47 higher than 6500m I don`t bother following.He`s not only able to keep his advantage but also build on it.

For safety I don`t exceed 5000m with such enemies and if I have to shoot some fortresses I just make 2-3 attacks an bug out.

Ofcourse despite the fact that the plane has been here long enough to be known by its pilots, I still get a lot of hot heads willing to dogfight.Lower than 5500m even a 1v2 Thunderbolts ain`t a problem.

The P47 feels great over 6000m.It allows DFing more than the P51 but normally there`s no chance against an ace driving a 109.Lower altitudes requirecareful flying.

mortoma
09-05-2007, 11:00 AM
I think the height advantage of the jug is over done a stretch. In real life they were good up there but not that much better than anything else. I have never read any comments from WWII pilots of either side comment on how good the jug was up high. At least they don't seem to claim it was a huge bunch better than a FW or BF, like it is in the game. They may have been better up high but not by that much. Even when they were fitted with the wide "paddle" prop blades. Does not seem to be historic. And this comment comes from an american ( me ). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-05-2007, 12:17 PM
Dora and 152 is just as good.

S~

Viper2005_
09-05-2007, 12:34 PM
The P-47 is a terrifying machine at high altitude.

The best way to deal with it is not to climb to altitudes at which it has the advantage.

han freak solo
09-05-2007, 01:22 PM
Mmmmm, Jugs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

danjama
09-05-2007, 02:13 PM
Nobody seems to have mentioned that if you start above the jug you can easily defeat it. It becomes impossible for HIM to gain energy.

But i will agree the p47 is one of the most advantaged planes at altitude, i love it.

Grand_Armee
09-05-2007, 02:19 PM
Thanks for your many and varied answers guys.

VK_Dim
09-05-2007, 02:24 PM
The only thing that pisses me off on Jug is it's armour. Took 3 or 4 passes on it today, with my Dora, parts started flyin around and he still managed to get away with it, like nothin happened. Must be bad luck, or me lost my grip, since i didn't fly more than a year and a half.

BlindBatMac
09-05-2007, 02:29 PM
Absolute rule if you are going to fly a jug: Make sure you're always the highest AC and set a hard deck no lower than 1000 meters above the average alt everyone else is flying. Go below your hard deck at your own peril, because you will get chewed up. There's not much to fear up high when driving a 47 with the exception of the TA153; everyone else you can outrun.

The reason the original poster probably thinks the jug is uber is because you can cover a lot of ground in hurry when diving at over 950 kph http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

carguy_
09-05-2007, 05:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Nobody seems to have mentioned that if you start above the jug you can easily defeat it. It becomes impossible for HIM to gain energy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not necessarily.At certain altitudes Luftwaffe planes perform so bad that you can engage in a df.You still have more power,you don`t have to stress the engine and a far better zoomclimb.VS the FW190 it is a pure skill match IMO.Like I said,the plane does not revoke a T&B fight so a superior skilled pilot has many options.IMO the P47 is more versatile than the P51 in both defense and offense.Through my time of flying I`ve been shown many times that durability makes a big difference.

Cajun76
09-05-2007, 09:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Nobody seems to have mentioned that if you start above the jug you can easily defeat it. It becomes impossible for HIM to gain energy.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Keep spreading the propaganda, it makes my job a lot easier. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ImpStarDuece
09-05-2007, 09:50 PM
The P-47 used to be my main ride when I did the online dogfight thing.

USAAF doctrine when the P-47C was introduced into combat in Europe was for a hard floor (i.e do not go below) of either 15,000 or 16,000 ft, the exact height escapes me at the moment. It was considered that below that height the fighter had no real advantages over its German opposition.

Above about 18,000 the P-47 is a least as fast, climbs as well or better and can out-turn most of its German opposition. And the 8 x .50 cals really hurt (particularly if you give them a 25 or 50m spread with your convergence).

Personally, I used to limit my engagement hard floor to 13,000 feet and my maneouvering hard floor (i.e. engaging in a close-in dogfight) to 16,000 feet. Below that I always felt like I gave too much away to my opposition.

If an opponent chose to break away and dive, I wouldn't pursue. It meant that I ended up missing out on a lot of kills, as the bottom feeders usually saw my wounded/smoking/on fire prey, but that I also ended up with a very favourable K/D ratio (if I kept my discipline).

Worst threats to the P-47 above 16,000 are the 109G-10 and K-4. To me the FW-190s feel like they want to fall out of the sky above 20,000 ft, and any hard maneouvering results in a stall.