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Whirlin_merlin
11-20-2006, 11:18 AM
Continuing the theme of previous threads.
How about 'cleverest' aircraft of WW2.
Just to make things interesting a few rules.
1)Doesn't have to be totally original or novel but in some way clever.
2)The cleverness doesn't need to have been a complete sucess just a good effort.
3)ONLY suggest and argue for aircraft NOT made by your nation. (Should make it fun)

I would like to start by offering up the P39.
The engine behind the cockpit was clever giving tricycle landing gear and room for a big ol' cannon. Not to mention providing a big lump to soak up damage from behind before it hit the pilot.

Whirlin_merlin
11-20-2006, 11:18 AM
Continuing the theme of previous threads.
How about 'cleverest' aircraft of WW2.
Just to make things interesting a few rules.
1)Doesn't have to be totally original or novel but in some way clever.
2)The cleverness doesn't need to have been a complete sucess just a good effort.
3)ONLY suggest and argue for aircraft NOT made by your nation. (Should make it fun)

I would like to start by offering up the P39.
The engine behind the cockpit was clever giving tricycle landing gear and room for a big ol' cannon. Not to mention providing a big lump to soak up damage from behind before it hit the pilot.

triad773
11-20-2006, 11:26 AM
I think the DO 335 is rather clever: the design flew in the face of conventional logic. leaving one with the impression that when both engines fired up on opposite ends, it'd look like a puppydog chasing its own tail. But not at all. With the counter rotating propellers, it worked quite well indeed. That, and considering that they engineered the ejection seat for just such a design, which would come in so handy later with jets.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.triad773.com/images/he100-7.jpg
Online on HL as {BR}Triad

jasonbirder
11-20-2006, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">3)ONLY suggest and argue for aircraft NOT made by your nation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps that should be made compulsary for ALL threads

ploughman
11-20-2006, 11:27 AM
The V-1. It wasn't that 'clever' but the idea was pretty good if you're into peppering large urban areas with High Explosive, also economical just send the bomb forget about the expensive bomber and crew and all that gubbins (I presume, i just know some one's now going to conclusively demonstrate that one V-1 was worth 7 D0-217s). I know it wasn't the first 'cruise' missile, but it was effective in its own way.

Also, first person to say "no one else had any clever ideas," gets the gimp of the week prize, second prize goes to the person who points out I just said it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/mctomney/hellspenguin.jpg
Dum spiro, spero

BfHeFwMe
11-20-2006, 11:42 AM
Sorry man, you can't say the P-39 because it was made by my nation, therefore is disqualified. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

AKA_TAGERT
11-20-2006, 11:48 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Whirlin:
Continuing the theme of previous threadsQUOTE]GET A LIFE PEOPLE!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

************************************************** **
IF WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.. THAN WHAT THE H IS YOUR QUESTION?
************************************************** **

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
11-20-2006, 11:52 AM
Option three was possibly the most 'unsubtlest' attempt at 'over-clevernessness'. I have seen.

is it open mod bating season now or something?

han freak solo
11-20-2006, 12:16 PM
He-162 Slam-a-master. I mean Salamander.

Wooden aircraft with fire coming out the tail. Coolness. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/HFSsig47.jpg

AWL_Spinner
11-20-2006, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Option three was possibly the most 'unsubtlest' attempt at 'over-clevernessness'. I have seen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I dunno, I think it's worth a shot and would make a nice change from some very silly willy waving seen on recent threads. Although I guess that's more or less a constant on here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For me, this unlikely contraption:

http://aerostories.free.fr/appareils/compopara/aviamatkaPVO.JPG

Which actually managed some strategically significant long range precision hits on bridges and the like.

I'd venture, from the Germans, the Mistel and the Fritz-X platform (looking forward to the wire guided rocket in '46). Fritz-X again had some notable successes during it's short operational life.

Can anyone shed any light on whether any Ju-88 Mistels found targets of any importance (or even any targets)?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers, Spinner

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />
o Squads! Take a look at the ADW War (http://adwwar.com/en/#), it's fantastic!
o Spinner has been alive in ADW for a maximum of: 3hrs 38mins!

JtD
11-20-2006, 12:42 PM
Clever imho is a plane that makes use of limited resources and, somewhat surprising, turns out to be a world beater.

Take the Fw 190-A for example, fitted with a radial just because a proper inline wasn't available and turns out to be one of the best planes of WW2. Same applies to the Spit IX, or the P-51 or the La-5.

Certainly the Mossie was a pretty clever plane as well. Or the Ki-46. Unarmed, but too fast to intercept.

Or the Storch, it's STOL capabilities were awesome.

Obviously, there were a lot of clever planes on all sides.

Love the picture, Spinner.

ARCHIE_CALVERT
11-20-2006, 01:12 PM
Not really anything to do with this thread, but made before the War...

http://www.daisey-designs.com/nx13688/bugatti/bug100-15.jpg

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/morlock68/14/14-02-im.gif <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/ChiefBlueMeanie.jpg
Now if, in the folding, I ESP the tesseract a half twist around myself and-

ploughman
11-20-2006, 01:40 PM
Wow. That's one of the most beautiful planes I've ever seen!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Bugatti 100 Racer (http://www.tdmsoftware.com/majewski/rcstuff/bugattiinfo.html)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/mctomney/hellspenguin.jpg
Dum spiro, spero

general_kalle
11-20-2006, 01:53 PM
MISTEL. quite clever.

me109. think of it was clearly the best aircraft in the world in 1938-39<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

what have you got to lose?
You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!) -life of Brian

F19_Olli72
11-20-2006, 02:04 PM
I think a good candidate is Blohm & Voss 141.
http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugzeuge/blohm-voss/bv141.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/rata-sig2.jpg
F19 Virtual Squadron (http://www.f19vs.se/)
<A HREF="http://www.screenshotart.com/

stathem
11-20-2006, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Wow. That's one of the most beautiful planes I've ever seen!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Bugatti 100 Racer (http://www.tdmsoftware.com/majewski/rcstuff/bugattiinfo.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 to that.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/griffnav/Gallery/MossiePRsig.jpg

leitmotiv
11-20-2006, 02:09 PM
Heavens! Easy! The B-29---it and the The Bomb were the same price and the most expensive weapons of the war. There was so much cleverness in it, I don't know where to begin---but, I am a Yank, so I will have to say the A6M Zero, because on a low-powered engine, with extremely advanced metallurgy, and ruthless weight reduction, the Japanese produced the most effective long range fighter until the P-38 went into action. Truly a marvel. I am also disposed towards the He 177 which was too clever, and the Do 335 which was, clearly the most brilliant solution to twin-engine benefits without twin-engine drag.

konfessionslos
11-20-2006, 02:12 PM
LA 5! fought against my country...or better my grandfather's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

It was made of plywood under very bad manufacturing conditions. The original design was the LaGG 3. In 1942 the russians screwed a radial engine on it's nose, because they were short of liquid cooled engines.

performance: just spectacular!!! ...not only in the sim.

best regards, a kraut

AWL_Spinner
11-20-2006, 02:49 PM
Ooh, ooh, I've got an American one.

Many, many advanced features and cleverness in this, one of the most beautiful aircraft ever to grace the skies (albeit only just).

I believe it qualifies as a wartime entrant as it was a response to a military requirement issued in 1942 - to fly bulky military equipment across the pond when the U-boat threat still had the potential to strangle the convoys.

As it turned out, the battle of the Atlantic was won and resources were directed elsewhere - it didn't actually "fly" until 1947.

http://johngushue.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/spruce_goose.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers, Spinner

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />
o Squads! Take a look at the ADW War (http://adwwar.com/en/#), it's fantastic!
o Spinner has been alive in ADW for a maximum of: 3hrs 38mins!

han freak solo
11-20-2006, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ploughman:
Wow. That's one of the most beautiful planes I've ever seen!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif


+1 to that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 too. Imagine seeing that go. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/HFSsig47.jpg

Viper2005_
11-20-2006, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Wow. That's one of the most beautiful planes I've ever seen!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Bugatti 100 Racer (http://www.tdmsoftware.com/majewski/rcstuff/bugattiinfo.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 to that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Such a shame nobody bothered to find out if it would really fly. I think somebody should build a replica and test fly it...

As for the cleverest aeroplane of WWII, I'll go with the Me-262.

Sergio_101
11-20-2006, 03:38 PM
http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/database/aircraft/showimage.php?id=9036

Vought F5U, winner hands down.

Sergio<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

P-51s may not have won the war, but they did not loose it.
Loosing the war was left to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

ploughman
11-20-2006, 03:40 PM
Sergio, you're a Yank aren't you? Pick something else.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/mctomney/clivesanta.png
Dum spiro, spero

zbw_109
11-20-2006, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
http://johngushue.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/spruce_goose.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
On that note Me-323, could carry a Artillery gun and its transport.
How many planes can claim to do that (stupid British light howitzer and C-130)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Deutsche Zentralbibliothek fur Wirtschaftswissenschaften

Whirlin_merlin
11-20-2006, 03:56 PM
Believe it or not my intentions were honourable (well nearly almost).
I also meant it about the P39 Ive been flying it abit online recently and the thing has a certain spaceship feel to it.

The Me262 is so very clever it's almost too clever to count!

OK another US plane with top cleverness the Catalina, one of my favs at airshows.

From Germany 109F for all that automation, letting the pilot get on with flying plane that's clever.

Whirlin_merlin
11-20-2006, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sergio_101:
http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/database/aircraft/showimage.php?id=9036

Vought F5U, winner hands down.

Sergio </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I declare violation of rule 3 mind you it's bloody clever that!

ARCHIE_CALVERT
11-20-2006, 04:01 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Got to be the Mossie, inovated use of timber to create one of the fastest aircraft of the War...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/ChiefBlueMeanie.jpg
Now if, in the folding, I ESP the tesseract a half twist around myself and-

Low_Flyer_MkVb
11-20-2006, 05:37 PM
Canadian-built Mossie of course http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n47/LFMkVb/1822.jpg

BfHeFwMe
11-20-2006, 05:40 PM
The Oscar, it was environmentally friendly, couple of hits and it would flame and roast into nothing leaving no rubbish to hit the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

jarink
11-20-2006, 06:25 PM
Perhaps an example of being a bit TOO clever....

Junkers Ju-187 http://www.luft46.com/junkers/ju187-2.jpg

It had a movable vertical tail fin, which could be moved 180 degrees in flight, thus clearing the field of fire for the rear gunner.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

My PF movies:Aluminum Eagle (http://files.netwings.org/files/fb_videos/Aluminum_Eagle/OneVisionLg.zip), Fire and Rain (http://files.netwings.org/files/fb_videos/Fire_and_Rain/Fire_and_Rain.zip) Snowbirds (http://files.netwings.org/files/fb_videos/Snowbirds/Snowbirds.zip)and Crew 22 (http://files.netwings.org/files/fb_videos/Crew_22/Crew22.zip)

http://home.grics.net/jrink/signature.jpg

p1ngu666
11-20-2006, 06:44 PM
il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/spitfiresig.jpg

flaming_onion
11-20-2006, 07:01 PM
As far as innovation goes, the best one I've heard was an attempt by the Russians to build an invisible aircraft. I remember reading an article years ago but I can't recall quite when the aircraft was designed. It was based on existing 'parasol' configuration and had a reasonable performance. The only problems were the advent of radar and the fact that the special coating, rhodoid(?), broke down in sunlight.

I've tried tracking down more info on this plane in the past without success - does anyone here know any more?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">



"Hey Andrei, hold my vodka and watch this!"

p1ngu666
11-20-2006, 07:15 PM
had see through fabric or plastic overing. kinda like a ww1 fighter in construction, with a clear skin http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/spitfiresig.jpg

Thanatos833
11-20-2006, 07:55 PM
Good god, that Bugatti Racer might have actually given the Italians a platform for a very good fighter plane, perhaps better than the veltro. The spitfire too originated from a racing design. I don't get it, the Racing plane based Machhis made it into production but this didn't? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9285/do17in9.jpg

The Dornier Do-17, another brilliant example of German engineering, a ???Schnellbomber" which could just outrun all fighters, this plane led to the German victory in the Battle of Britain and indeed, the Second World War.

CUJO_1970
11-20-2006, 08:42 PM
Tough choice:

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW4/Do335-V3-84s.jpg

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW/Me262-V167-26.jpg

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW/Ar234-V9-21s.jpg

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW4/Ar234-C3-68s.jpg

http://jpcolliat.free.fr/ho9/images/ho9v3_12.jpg



I guess I'd have to go with the _Me-262_, since it contributed more to the future of aviation than any other WWII plane.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Regards,
FW190fan


http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190&G50-54.jpg

"We are now in a position of inferiority. There is no doubt in my mind, or in the mind of my fighter pilots that the FW190 is the best fighter in the world today."

- RAF Air Marshall Sholto Douglas, 1942.


www.7/JG77.com (http://www.92ndfg.com/forum/)
7/JG77=CUJO=

JamesBlonde888
11-20-2006, 08:46 PM
Mosquito by a country mile.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/JamesBlonde/newsig.bmp
3) Shouts 'Bleiben Sie auf K??rs du k??kuk!' when a family member detaches itself from the shopping formation.
http://www.freewebs.com/jamesblonde888/

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination


Die lezte

ElAurens
11-20-2006, 09:00 PM
Well I want to say the P51 because it doesn't matter how clever your aircraft is if it doesn't have the range to take the fight to the enemy. And it had a clever radiator arrangement and very clever laminar wings as well...

But as this violates rule 3, then I'll have to go with the Mitsubishi A6M series. Given the very difficult specifications put forth by the Nihon Kaigun, extreme range, extreme maneuverability, and (for the time) high performance, oh and BTW, you only have 1000hp to play with, the boys at Mitsubishi were very clever indeed.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/ELsKi.jpg

"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature" - T.E. Lawrence

JamesBlonde888
11-20-2006, 09:17 PM
Unfortunately they were too clever and skimped on really strong knicker elastic to hold it together with.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/JamesBlonde/newsig.bmp
3) Shouts 'Bleiben Sie auf K??rs du k??kuk!' when a family member detaches itself from the shopping formation.
http://www.freewebs.com/jamesblonde888/

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination


Die lezte

LStarosta
11-20-2006, 09:35 PM
P38 because it had fowler flaps and it could outturn Fw-190s.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5310/tagjimmyssw1.jpg

DmdSeeker
11-20-2006, 10:59 PM
I'd vote for one of the war time helicoptors; axis or allied.

Perhaps the U-boat towed auto gyro.

WOLFMondo
11-20-2006, 11:51 PM
FW190 OFC!! Full automated electrical systems and engine management.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Capt Eric Brown says: "I found in general the default joystick settings tended to be oversensitive. With my recommended settings it will give people a real feeling of how they actually flew."

Friendly_flyer
11-21-2006, 12:21 AM
I think the Salamander was a very neat plane. It looks like a thing you can screw together in your backyard shed, yet it flew, (and if this game is something to go by) and was a quite capable fighter.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Fly friendly!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/WhirlwindforBoB-II.jpg

Visit No 79 Squadron vRAF (http://www.gazzamataz.com/79vRAF/)

Petter B??ckman
Norway

Whirlin_merlin
11-21-2006, 12:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Perhaps the U-boat towed auto gyro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They have one on display at Duxford, imagine if the sub had to crash dive and they cut you loose, scary.

But clever.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
11-21-2006, 07:26 AM
Ok not sure if it comes under 'clever' but it sure would be nice to fly


http://www.promotur.com/jrb/images/jr06.jpg

Savoia-Marchetti (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/Savoia/Aero62.htm)

major_setback
11-21-2006, 07:49 AM
Any aircraft in a tin submarine.

Or the Antonov KT flying tank!

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/roadable/images/antonovkt.jpeg



This was new to me...found when looking for a picture of the above. Christie flying tank project:

http://www.roadabletimes.com/roadables-modular_Christie.html

http://www.roadabletimes.com/images/christieFlyingtankcover.jpg


Not to be confused with this:

http://www.3d-nut.com/videos/tank.wmv<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Signaurepic004BESTframe014small.jpg
<span class="ev_code_PINK">My Aim is True.</span>

p1ngu666
11-21-2006, 07:52 AM
first batches of he162 where pretty awful to fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

balrog, cool plane, really heavy on the controls tho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. bilbo? flew a formation across the atlantic to america before ww2<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/spitfiresig.jpg

stathem
11-21-2006, 08:10 AM
Not that I'm entering this as a contestant;

Simply to continue the Flying Tank theme;

Baynes Bat (http://www.vintagegliderclub.org/vgc_news/bat.htm)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/griffnav/Gallery/MossiePRsig.jpg

thefruitbat
11-21-2006, 10:40 AM
To the original question, easy, the b17 in speilbergs 'amazing stories, the mission'

You have to be a clever plane to have an spare peice of animated landing gear. Only a clever plane could possibly think of putting that in just in case.

And dont tell me it didnt happen, i saw it on tv. saved this blokes life, amazing stuff.

fruitbat<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/new51sig.jpg