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View Full Version : Will this run better on a 6800 Ultra or X800 XT?



jpinard
09-01-2004, 08:50 PM
Just wondering. It may influence my purchasing decision.

jpinard
09-01-2004, 08:50 PM
Just wondering. It may influence my purchasing decision.

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
09-01-2004, 09:13 PM
wait for release before any purchase.. thats my advice-.

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VF-3Thunderboy
09-01-2004, 10:15 PM
...remember some of the new M/B's have PCI slots for 2 vid http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif cards....

KAMI_1
09-02-2004, 12:18 AM
only with a GeForce FX 6xxx u will be able to use the new perfect level of FB with shader 3.0.

Ati lost the contact . its like :

Ati fly Zero and Nvidia a B-29 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

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=BUMP=

olaleier
09-02-2004, 12:49 AM
They are very close in performance, but as mentioned above, only the Nvidia cards will support all the eye-candy.

One 6800GT to go please.

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WUAF_Badsight
09-02-2004, 01:01 AM
ATi be without pixel shader 3.0 for very long ?

unless Nvidea has patented it i doubt it

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jpinard
09-02-2004, 06:10 AM
Seriously, this game uses ps3?

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
09-02-2004, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> only with a GeForce FX 6xxx u will be able to use the new perfect level of FB with shader 3.0.

Ati lost the contact . its like :

Ati fly Zero and Nvidia a B-29 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this is only at the moment. Im pretty sure at the release ATI will handle level 3 of water-

------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------
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Charlie901
09-02-2004, 09:34 PM
Nvida cards have always taken the lead in OGL performance, which is important if you want to run this sim in Perfect mode with the best FPS.

Also the IL2 series is an OGL sim meaning that it will perform better in OGL mode.

Oleg and crew are using a 6800GT to develop and show PF. Therefore I believe PF will best be optimized for these series of cards, with the least amount of graphical glitches, as opposed to the newer ATI cards.

Lastly, none of the current X series ATI cards will support PS3.0. The support can't be added via a new driver cause the X series are based on the older 9800 design. IIRC its going to take a brand new series of ATI cards to be able to support PS3.0, and from what I've heard PS3.0 really boosts game performance.

jpinard
09-02-2004, 10:22 PM
Oleg is really programming perfect mode with Shaders v3.0? I hadn't seen that anywhere on their website.

WUAF_Badsight
09-02-2004, 11:15 PM
& it has yet to be said on any FB forum yet either

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RocketDog
09-03-2004, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KAMI_1:
only with a GeForce FX 6xxx u will be able to use the new perfect level of FB with shader 3.0.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect mode in PF is based on PS 3.0?

Is that a guess or do you know for a fact? I've not heard anything about PS 3.0 being used in PF. Sources please.

Regards,

RocketDog.

OldMan____
09-03-2004, 06:47 PM
Just look at developer.nvidia.com there is an article about V.S 3.0 in PF.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-03-2004, 06:57 PM
According to every review I have read the X800 XT holds a very slight edge over the 6800 Ultra and even Extreme in the $500 and above.
But the 6800 GT smacks the X800 pro around pretty good in the $400 range.
I have owned cards from both Nvidia and ATI and niether have given me troubles and both have done a fine job for what I needed at the time. I own a 9800Pro at the moment and would like to score a 6800 GT by fall.
Im a fanboy of neither company personally I go with the best "bang for buck" idea.
(Reviews were read at time of the release of the cards. I know the prices have come down for a few)

=S=

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ElAurens
09-03-2004, 07:08 PM
I'm giving serious consideration to one of those ASUS V9999 Ultra Deluxe "one slot" cards. so far it is the only 6800 Ultra I've seen that is a one slot design, and it's factory OC'd as well.

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Obi_Kwiet
09-03-2004, 09:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
According to every review I have read the X800 XT holds a very slight edge over the 6800 Ultra and even Extreme in the $500 and above.
But the 6800 GT smacks the X800 pro around pretty good in the $400 range.
I have owned cards from both Nvidia and ATI and niether have given me troubles and both have done a fine job for what I needed at the time. I own a 9800Pro at the moment and would like to score a 6800 GT by fall.
Im a fanboy of neither company personally I go with the best "bang for buck" idea.
(Reviews were read at time of the release of the cards. I know the prices have come down for a few)

=S=

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http://www.flightjournal.com/images/plane_profiles/corsair/c.jpg
http://www.vmf-214.net
(The Original BlackSheep Squadron of IL-2/FB/AEP/PF)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You, If both cards will be doning over 50FPS, FPS wn't make any diffrence any way. The human eye can only see somehting like 35FPS. You only need a moniter refresh rate because of the residual glare. So at this point all we care about is immage quallty.

olaleier
09-03-2004, 10:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Since the introduction of programmability to the GPU, the capabilities of the vertex and pixel processors have been different. Now, with Shader Model 3.0, GeForce 6 Series GPUs have taken a huge step towards providing common functionality for both vertex and pixel shaders. This paper focuses specifically on one such Shader Model 3.0 feature: vertex texture fetch. Vertex texture fetch allows vertex shaders to read data from textures, just like pixel shaders can. This additional feature is useful for a number of effects, including displacement mapping, fluid and water simulation, explosions, and more. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/using_vertex_textures.html


I'm not sure I will be running PF maxed out, but still...I'm buying a new vid card in either two or four weeks, and since ATI isn't there with a goot alternative between Pro and XT, the 6800GT is the best bang-pr-buck IMO.

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EFG_beber
09-04-2004, 03:00 AM
GeForce 6800 vs ATI Radeon X800
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/513/page8.html

Charlie901
09-08-2004, 11:14 PM
Actually it looks like PF will have Pixel Shader 3.0 support which is only availible on the 6800 cards. See here:

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/using_vertex_textures.html

The_Ant
09-09-2004, 06:17 AM
nice score from the Gf6800 considering its a 128mb graphic card, but the other ones ultra and Gt ar monsters with their 256mb.

[Si Vis Pacem,Para Bellum = If you wish for peace, prepare for war.]

[This message was edited by The_Ant on Thu September 09 2004 at 06:45 AM.]

[This message was edited by The_Ant on Thu September 09 2004 at 06:46 AM.]

Reschke
09-09-2004, 09:15 AM
Well I intend to buy a 6800 card sometime before Christmas since that is what I asked Santa Claus for and will be buying. Then it will be time to sneak in a few upgrades on the wife and build a second machine to get me off the one that she "stole" from me for her business.

Lcdr. Reschke
CO VF-17 " The Jolly Rogers"
The Jolly Rogers (http://www.vf-17.org)

PriK
09-09-2004, 08:58 PM
For those of you with mortgage payments or a slightly less nerdy disposition you might want to check out the 6600GT for $200 when it's released. It will likely have about 90% of the performance of a GT at half the price.

Oh and if you do get one of the PCI-x versions (that'll be released first) you will be able to add a second card in scan-interleave mode to push you beyond 6800GT, by all accounts.

I'm going to hold off on a purchase until closer to Christmas.

-------------------
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BigKahuna_GS
09-09-2004, 11:36 PM
S!

Man that water looks good with the 6800 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hows does it look with the Ati card ?

Ok can you expound on this :
__________________________________________________ _________________________
PriK posted 09-09-04 19:58
Oh and if you do get one of the PCI-x versions (that'll be released first) you will be able to add a second card in scan-interleave mode to push you beyond 6800GT, by all accounts.
__________________________________________________ __________________________


How will it push beyond the 6800GT ?

The 6800GT has 16 pipelines in the PCI-Express format. I heard anything below the GT model would only have 10-12 pipelines.

What I guess you are saying is if you by (2) 6600GT cards and run them PCI-E series that would be superior to (1) 6800GT. Interesting.

I did something like that years ago with a Velocity 4400 and a Voodoo 2 card, made for a high quality image. Man so many options......

I just picked up an Intel D925XBC MB (PCI Express) at Monarch Comp parts for $115 refurbished and garunteed. It has the new 925X chipset and other new features. Cant wait to put it all together.


___



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

james_ander
09-10-2004, 03:28 PM
Two thoughts on all of this:
Water seems to be a big issue when considering these cards b/c of the shaders.

In FB there is water that is:

Excellent=no dynamic water
Perfect=dynamic water

I was wondering if PF would have different qualities of dynamic water (like LOMAC) or just on or off. I run LOMAC water in medium which gives dynamic water. High and very high gives more reflection, etc. In LOMAC, medium water does me just fine. I wouldn't need to run the absolute highest level of water in PF, but would like to at least have dynamic water.

Regarding PCI-express. My impression was that the fastest cards available are still AGP based. What PCI-express cards out there compare in performance to current AGP cards? I'm asking because I am considering upgrading processor and card with PF and would like it to be as future proof as possible. This includes making do with my 9800 pro for awhile (which is why I am asking about lower qual. dynamic water.)

Thanks.

olaleier
09-10-2004, 03:34 PM
james_ander, I think there will be additional water settings above the Perfect level we have now, and that Perfect level will look more or less the same.

The highest level (if I'm not horribly wrong) gives rolling waves and whitecapes with vertex shader effects.

As for upgrading, here's my take:

PCI Express is not a good reason on its own to upgrade. It does not offer any additional peformance over AGP (at present).

Make do with your 9800 Pro (or get a X800 Pro / 6800GT) for a while, then you'll have to go all the way, mobo, CPU and video card in one go. Maybe RAM as well (DDR2).

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james_ander
09-10-2004, 03:43 PM
I wouldn't be upgrading just for the sake of having PCI-express. I know there is really no additional performance benefit right now. In the process of upgrading processor, gpu, etc. I was thinking of choosing a PCI-E board rather than a conventional AGP board to have a platform for future processor and GPU upgrades. It may be too soon though to make the jump to PCI-express. At the very least, I am waiting to see how my current rig does with PF before buying anything.

Thanks.

olaleier
09-10-2004, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by james_ander:
I wouldn't be upgrading just for the sake of having PCI-express. I know there is really no additional performance benefit right now. In the process of upgrading processor, gpu, etc. I was thinking of choosing a PCI-E board rather than a conventional AGP board to have a platform for future processor and GPU upgrades. It may be too soon though to make the jump to PCI-express. At the very least, I am waiting to see how my current rig does with PF before buying anything.

Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good call.

Also, there's some new chipsets/sockets that need to mature, like Intel's newest offering (LGA something) and the upcoming nForce4 for AMD.

"Waiting it out" in hardware is usually looked upon as a bit futile, but when it comes to transitions it's a good idea.

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Labienus
09-10-2004, 04:33 PM
I see... PF will be so great that only best and most expensive cards could make possible play it on highest level of details. So PF is getting realy close to ****ty FarCry wich was maked I think only to gave cards, procesors and so on producers some money. We will have beatiful water on most expensive cards but still flight model and tragic sounds will be the same bad as it is now.

Very nice... very nice... I have nothing to add. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

PriK
09-10-2004, 04:49 PM
Ok, here's the scoop as far as what I know. When the cards are released it could be a different story:

1.) PCI-x based video cards will not be faster than the AGP versions in and of themselves, however in the case of the 6600GT you can put two of them on the mobo with each one processing half the screen (every other scan line on your monitor). The potential is obvious with each card doing half the work but don't expect double the performance, it is likely that two of these cards will be significantly faster than one 6800 though.

2.) Pixel Shader v3 is not available on current ATI architecture. the 9800s are really a revision of older tech so no perfect water 4 you! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif A driver fix won't help there since it's hardware.

3.) The 6800/6600 nvidia cards will utilize PS3 to significantly cut down the amount of work the GPU has to do to make those nifty whitecaps and is almost "free" in those terms. So even though ATI cards should be "capable" of this perfect water it would take a very significant hit in performance. That is even if it is coded to work on an (current) ATI card. Fear not though because ATI is likely to not be able to resist adding PS3 on their next generation.

-------------------
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james_ander
09-10-2004, 06:05 PM
I already figured on not running perfect water. I don't very often with FB. I can, but I choose to crank up the AA/AF instead. FPS is decent with perfect but I prefer the FPS overhead without it. When I started playing FB I had an FX 5200. I did fine with it and thought FB looked quite good. I was very happy with the huge performance improvement when I went to the 9800 pro and it was well worth the $230 w/shipping I paid for it at the time. Waiting is a bad idea if you are running a **** rig and can't play.

I imagine running PF with my 9800 pro will be a little like running FB with the FX5200 in that I will have to make compromises; less eye candy if I want more AA/AF, etc. During this time, I can watch prices, etc.

I wonder how long faster CPU's and GPU's will be made for AGP based boards. If I understand correctly, faster Intel processors will only be made for the PCI-express boards. I wonder if AMD is doing the same. I try to read up on this stuff, but lack of computer knowledge makes it difficult for me to see the big picture.

olaleier
09-11-2004, 07:42 AM
Actually, AMD is sill holding out a bit. I think they will wait until nforce4 is well established before they release PCIe cards.

AMD's socket 754 / 939 is still all AGP and none of them use DDR2 RAM.

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BigKahuna_GS
09-11-2004, 11:39 AM
PriK


S!



__________________________________________________ _________________________
Prik--1.) PCI-x based video cards will not be faster than the AGP versions in and of themselves, however in the case of the 6600GT you can put two of them on the mobo with each one processing half the screen (every other scan line on your monitor). The potential is obvious with each card doing half the work but don't expect double the performance, it is likely that two of these cards will be significantly faster than one 6800 though.
__________________________________________________ __________________________



Good Info Thanks ! Do you know what kind of connectors to hook these video cards up in series like this? Any performance data out there ?



________________



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

Fliegeroffizier
09-11-2004, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Labienus:
I see... PF will be so great that only best and most expensive cards could make possible play it on highest level of details. So PF is getting realy close to ****ty FarCry wich was maked I think only to gave cards, procesors and so on producers some money. We will have beatiful water on most expensive cards but still flight model and tragic sounds will be the same bad as it is now.

Very nice... very nice... I have nothing to add. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recommend you not buy Pacific Fighters.

9th_Spitin
09-11-2004, 06:36 PM
Well I tried to go the cheap way and get a FX5900 in hopes it would run close to the higher settings with above average FPS. Well it was OK but I play 5 times a week and want more then OK. Kinda like being a couch potato, why watch tv on a small set when HDTV widescreen is available. So I went to the Director of Finance and asked (begged) for the Nvidia 6800GT and was granted permision to buy it. Now I'm waiting to get off work so I can install it and turn all my settings up as high as they will go.

S~

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http://www.lordsofwar.com/public_uploads/Bloodfist/spitinfinalsig.jpg

PriK
09-12-2004, 07:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Kahuna:
PriK


S!



__________________________________________________ _________________________
Prik--1.) PCI-x based video cards will not be faster than the AGP versions in and of themselves, however in the case of the 6600GT you can put two of them on the mobo with each one processing half the screen (every other scan line on your monitor). The potential is obvious with each card doing half the work but don't expect double the performance, it is likely that two of these cards will be significantly faster than one 6800 though.
__________________________________________________ __________________________



Good Info Thanks ! Do you know what kind of connectors to hook these video cards up in series like this? Any performance data out there ?



________________



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"





<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S!

What you will need is a PCIx motherboard and two 6600GTs. Although there won't be any dual 16x PCIx slots on mobos for a little while yet apparantly it works fine with one card in the 16x slot and another in the 8x slot.

Keep in mind that these cards aren't out there yet and hasn't been tested outside of nvidia's labs as far as I know.

Also, rumour has it that you can actually get 2x the performance using both cards in some professional applications and about 1.8x in games so that does sound promising.

cheers

-------------------
A-Cat CharveL

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)