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sarracenia
10-11-2006, 03:28 PM
Hi
I have been trying to land the A 20 on a hard runway, I use landing flaps and get the speed down to below 200 but the landing gear keeps collapsing each time. Have tried upping landing speed a bit to try to slow rate of descent down but had no joy with this either. Managed to kill the rear gunner last night as I had the nose too high, advice appreciated. I manage to land intact on grass, not sure how much difference that should make.

thanks S

sarracenia
10-11-2006, 03:28 PM
Hi
I have been trying to land the A 20 on a hard runway, I use landing flaps and get the speed down to below 200 but the landing gear keeps collapsing each time. Have tried upping landing speed a bit to try to slow rate of descent down but had no joy with this either. Managed to kill the rear gunner last night as I had the nose too high, advice appreciated. I manage to land intact on grass, not sure how much difference that should make.

thanks S

slappedsilly
10-11-2006, 03:36 PM
Land it hot. Keep good speed. It will slow down quick enough. Use the whole runway though, if you come over the threshold too high it won't work.

VW-IceFire
10-11-2006, 04:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sarracenia:
Hi
I have been trying to land the A 20 on a hard runway, I use landing flaps and get the speed down to below 200 but the landing gear keeps collapsing each time. Have tried upping landing speed a bit to try to slow rate of descent down but had no joy with this either. Managed to kill the rear gunner last night as I had the nose too high, advice appreciated. I manage to land intact on grass, not sure how much difference that should make.

thanks S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your speed should drop to about 190 just as you touch down...slight nose high...flaps in full landing configuration. If your collapsing the undercarriage you're too high.

My suggestion is to line up on the approach at about 300-350kph (depending on distance). Cut the throttle to about 20% and set combat flaps. As speed drops to under 250kph set to takeoff flaps. As you are just about at the runway landing flaps.

You want to stage your flaps release so that you aren't left floating at 200kph above the runway at 300m. You want to drop the flaps when you need to and not right away. Don't use the flaps to slow you down (I used to do this)....use them to keep the plane stable.

vocatx
10-11-2006, 06:43 PM
Watch this: http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/A-20.html and take notes. Yes, most of the data on these old movies is absolutely transferrable to FB/PF. Fly it like they did in real life, and you can set her down like a Cessna.

gdfo
10-12-2006, 04:30 AM
sarracenia,
make a trk of your landing and post it so we can see what happens.

Fighterduck
10-12-2006, 07:03 AM
uhm..never had problems with any plane to land...take of yes...especially with full bomb load in small runway...but land isnt hard: 200 is a good speed.less is better..but presonally i land under 200 only with biplanes...the only thing you have to pay attention is how fast you are loosing height..if you feel that you are approachig "vertically" too much faster, just give gas and pull up a little bit.But the A20 is a great and stable planes, plus, its has a tricicle system, so when your back wheels are on the ground..thats it! just put throttle 0% and use brakes. Btw...dont be scared if you dont tuvh the ground at the beginnig of the way..take your time...you have all the place you need to land.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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XyZspineZyX
10-13-2006, 08:33 AM
Also, check your VSI. If you're coming in at a rate of descent that exceeds 500 feet per minute, your coming down way too fast. Common symptoms are lack of speed, being on the verge of stall as you approach.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOLFMondo
10-13-2006, 09:04 AM
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Sounds like your approach is off. When you flare when you land you should be safely above stall speed but not that high. 200kph is well above landing speed of most aircraft in this sim. Some will go as low as 140kph on landing. Put it like this, I land the 190's at 170kph, it seems slow but thats around the correct speed.

Try this. Find your runway and approach from 5 to 10km away and from about 5000ft. Aim towards the runway while dropping speed to around 250kph, put your throttles to around 35%, give yourself tons of positive elevator trim and trim our your rudder, close the radiators, and put prop pitch to 100. On your first few times you can drop flaps immediately to get your approach speed and angle correct and get used to flying in a dirty configuration. You want to be loosing height slowly but loose speed very very slowly, keep the angle shallow. When you go over the threshold you want to be above the stall speed but not by a large margin, flare and touch down. Your aiming point should be the white lines at the end of the runway.

If you have too much speed, raise your flaps and enter a side slip. This is applying full rudder in one direction while countering with as much elevator as needed to keep your direction the same as previously.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

JamesBlonde888
10-13-2006, 06:47 PM
Keep the gear up. The yanks have hundreds of the things and if they run out you will get something better.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JamesBlonde888
10-13-2006, 06:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fighterduck:
uhm..never had problems with any plane to land...take of yes...especially with full bomb load in small runway...but land isnt hard: 200 is a good speed.less is better..but presonally i land under 200 only with biplanes...the only thing you have to pay attention is how fast you are loosing height..if you feel that you are approachig "vertically" too much faster, just give gas and pull up a little bit.But the A20 is a great and stable planes, plus, its has a tricicle system, so when your back wheels are on the ground..thats it! just put throttle 0% and use brakes. Btw...dont be scared if you dont tuvh the ground at the beginnig of the way..take your time...you have all the place you need to land. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, I land most a/c in the game at 180 tops.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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sarracenia
10-17-2006, 04:48 PM
Thanks for all your help, I am now able to land without too many mishaps. However a new problem has arisen, how to keep the plane straight under braking. When I brake the plane pulls to the left , trying to control with the rudder leads to some wild slewing.

thanks S

VW-IceFire
10-17-2006, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sarracenia:
Thanks for all your help, I am now able to land without too many mishaps. However a new problem has arisen, how to keep the plane straight under braking. When I brake the plane pulls to the left , trying to control with the rudder leads to some wild slewing.

thanks S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your fighting with your plane. Don't fight it.

No really. You're probably holding the brakes like they are in a car. Its not a car and you don't typically decelerate from 180kph down to 0. Tap the breaks...hold for a second and then let go. Its really the same as with tail draggers but for different reasons...there you don't want to flip, here you just want to stay straight.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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sarracenia
10-18-2006, 03:45 PM
When I try just tapping the brakes I quickly run out of runway, Is there anything else i should do apart from throttling back?
Another problem I am having now in pilot career is taking off, I am unable to move off, have tried the wheel chock toggle key but it doesnt respond.

Thanks S

VW-IceFire
10-18-2006, 04:16 PM
Its not a tapping thing...thats pretty ineffective too. Hold the break...release...hold...release. If you've touched down under 200kph you should be able to stop in a relatively short distance.

On some of the larger runways you, in theory, only need about 1/3rd of the runway to stop.

There's a bit of a technique to it...but it shouldn't be that hard. I can record a track of me landing a A-20 if that'd help you out.

Wheel chocks only apply to aircraft carrier decks and placed runway objects (usually you won't see these in single player). If you don't see a "wheel chocks" released message then its not an issue.

If you're on a runway, start engine 1, start engine 2, select both engines, and then throttle up. Check that the breaks aren't somehow sticky and thus engaged. I find this happens sometimes on my older keyboard.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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sarracenia
10-19-2006, 04:22 PM
Thanks for the help, seems to be something with the engine management which I havent sussed out yet. Set the difficulty to normal and I was able to take off, suspect that the throttle wasnt powering up.cheers S

Opie-won
10-19-2006, 07:49 PM
Another thing that you might keep in mind is engine torque. If you run the throttles to full right off the bat you will have a hard time dealing with the torque. Open them up slower and that will help out on take off.

JamesBlonde888
10-19-2006, 11:06 PM
I wonder if overheateing brakes have been moddeled?

Certainly I would not advise keeping them on for too long if you must land wheels down. Personally I think the tyres bounce too much which is bad for the digestion.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Tully__
10-21-2006, 12:39 AM
A track demonstrating A-20 landing: Click here to download (http://jennirivers.actewagl.net.au/a20lands.zip)

Sorry it's a bit sloppy. Approach speed was too high and glide slope too steep. Keep approach around 180km/h and trim for that speed early in the approach. Once you've down that, use small power adjustments to control your glide slope.

The final moments in the above track are pretty good despite the dodgy approach. 175-185km/h over the runway threshold, with touchdown @ about 160km/h.

Something to remember when braking (and it's not mentioned in the manual)... left/right brake balance is controlled by rudder in this game (as it was on some of the real aircraft) so if you apply full right rudder with the brakes on, you'll have no brakes on the left side wheel and full brakes on the right side. If you're not going straight while using brakes on the runway, be very careful with the rudder.

As you can see in my demonstration above, if you get the approach and touchdown speed right you'll have absolutely no problems stopping even on very short runways. I rarely use more than half the runway even on short runways with full fuel and bombs on board (landing in the track was full ammo / 50% fuel / no bombs).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Tully__
10-21-2006, 12:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Have tried upping landing speed a bit to try to slow rate of descent down but had no joy with this either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Increasing landing speed without changing approach slope angle will increase rate of descent. To reduce rate of descent lower the altitude at which you begin the approach and use more power to maintain the same speed; OR make your approach with the nose a bit higher to reduce speed but slightly increased power to compensate for the increase in drag caused by the higher angle of attack (only a percent or two difference more than likely).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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