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View Full Version : Oleg regaurding skins in game engine



LeadSpitter_
09-19-2005, 05:05 AM
Is there anyway the skinning community can work with you oleg 1c and ubi in regaurds to high quality skins being encoded into the engine so there is no need for them to be downloadable to be seen.

My idea was a optional 2-3 of the highest quality skins patchs around 120mb each that the users can download optionally and does not effect game version, 2-3 generic no markings skins for each flyable and ai aircraft ingame replacing the defaults ones.

Just a thought and would be a nice improvement to the game.

Rafiel, sooty, hammerd, cannonuk, vpmedia, ats42, kamikuza, foo.bar and others.

I have made 3 packs of the top quality generic nomarkings skins and if you or the dev team are interested in this idea I can send you them and maybe use the same names as defaults to make it easier to make a patch.

Let me know.

LeadSpitter_
09-19-2005, 05:05 AM
Is there anyway the skinning community can work with you oleg 1c and ubi in regaurds to high quality skins being encoded into the engine so there is no need for them to be downloadable to be seen.

My idea was a optional 2-3 of the highest quality skins patchs around 120mb each that the users can download optionally and does not effect game version, 2-3 generic no markings skins for each flyable and ai aircraft ingame replacing the defaults ones.

Just a thought and would be a nice improvement to the game.

Rafiel, sooty, hammerd, cannonuk, vpmedia, ats42, kamikuza, foo.bar and others.

I have made 3 packs of the top quality generic nomarkings skins and if you or the dev team are interested in this idea I can send you them and maybe use the same names as defaults to make it easier to make a patch.

Let me know.

carguy_
09-19-2005, 05:15 AM
I would like 1C to implement all interesting skins so they would be on every connected PC and no one would be forced to skin DL which causes high pingz.

RogueSnake79
09-19-2005, 05:16 AM
You boob http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I just started a thread on this subject. Hell, mybe 2 threads going will get it done this time.

Bump!

LeadSpitter_
09-20-2005, 06:17 AM
you saddlebag i asked this many times over the years with no response http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I did see your post after i posted mine. Maybe one of us will get an answer.

WOLFMondo
09-20-2005, 06:50 AM
An official skin pack that you could enable or disable server side would be cool. Most people have most of the best skins anyways!

73GIAP_Milan
09-20-2005, 11:15 AM
I support that idea.

daFat1
09-21-2005, 07:16 AM
Ooops, maybe I should have read this one sooner!

TAGERT.
09-21-2005, 08:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeadSpitter_ or RogueSnake79 Im not sure:
Is there anyway the skinning community can work with you oleg 1c and ubi in regaurds to high quality skins being encoded into the engine so there is no need for them to be downloadable to be seen.

My idea was a optional 2-3 of the highest quality skins patchs around 120mb each that the users can download optionally and does not effect game version, 2-3 generic no markings skins for each flyable and ai aircraft ingame replacing the defaults ones.

Just a thought and would be a nice improvement to the game.

Rafiel, sooty, hammerd, cannonuk, vpmedia, ats42, kamikuza, foo.bar and others.

I have made 3 packs of the top quality generic nomarkings skins and if you or the dev team are interested in this idea I can send you them and maybe use the same names as defaults to make it easier to make a patch.

Let me know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds good to me.. Oleg could take the skins and put them into a seperate download file.. maybe a under the same catogorys as used on ilskins.. historic, fun, etc.

Then maybe every month or so have a new filed to dl. Then if your in the game and everyone has the same file, they would see the skin you selected.. The ones that did not dl the file would see the default.

On that note, Oleg could also finally find a GOOD USE of the voting options in this forum. He could have us vote on what skins to add or not add.

Peronally.. I would vote for all the historic skins and not vote for any others. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

danger13
09-21-2005, 08:58 AM
if u dont clear the skins net cashe, and move the skins from there to the appropriate plane folder, you will then have your skins. it means doing it yourself.

let the boys build planes...

S!~.

Burnzoire1
09-21-2005, 06:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danger13:
if u dont clear the skins net cashe, and move the skins from there to the appropriate plane folder, you will then have your skins. it means doing it yourself.

let the boys build planes...

S!~. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the problem is pretty much every server has skin download off. It's a shame to have to see default skins when there's so much great artwork waiting to be displayed.

VW-IceFire
09-21-2005, 09:46 PM
I definately support this idea but I doubt we'll see movement on it. Nonetheless, great idea!

Kuna15
09-22-2005, 02:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 73GIAP_Milan:
I support that idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me also. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Abraxa
09-22-2005, 10:43 AM
I agree, it would be a nice improvement

Dew-Claw
09-22-2005, 03:59 PM
All it takes is restricting skin exchange downloads to the briefing and/or loadout screen.
If you log in with skins active, you have to wait in briefing while all those online have exchanged with you then you can pick a base.
From then on out skins of new players would only DL to your client while rearming.

That way the only bandwidth You'd use is the same, or less then if you were flying.
That way lag effects to others would be reduced, or even eliminated.

TAGERT.
09-22-2005, 11:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danger13:
if u dont clear the skins net cashe, and move the skins from there to the appropriate plane folder, you will then have your skins. it means doing it yourself.

let the boys build planes...

S!~. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The problem is not in gettin the skins.. from cache or dl them off the web..

The prob is that if the skin is not part of the default other people wont see it when you select it and skins are turned off. Thus it has to be dl during game play.. and that is where people *think* the start stutters come from. Which is why servers disable skins. Even if you and your buddy have the same skin dl from the same sight or from cache, the game will re-download it to each other beause it does not check the name of the skin your using. Just because you select a skin does not mean anyone else will see it unless the server allows skin dl or it is a default skin. Hence the idea/wish of adding more default skins.

Atzebrueck
09-23-2005, 10:49 AM
As far as I know, you see skins, only if skin-dl is on.
There are two possibilities:
-Either have a skin in the cache folder. In that case the content of the skin is checked, the name of the file will represent it and assures that skins are only shown to other players, if the files are really identical.
-Or put the skins in the planes' folders. In that case the name of the skin is checked, but the content doesn't matter at all. So, if you use a file with the same name but different content - e.g. a one-coloured skin instead of a historical correct one - the game still shows this skin, if others use their version.

So the best solution would be to deliver two files for each skin:
-one for the net-cache
-and if users wish to actively use the skins, one with a more distinct name, to put the file into the plane folder.

That helps to keep the folder clean and still enables players to see others' skins. And by relying on the net cache, people will see what they are supposed to see, because the content of the file is checked, not only its name.

TAGERT.
09-24-2005, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
As far as I know, you see skins, only if skin-dl is on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>True.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
There are two possibilities:
-Either have a skin in the cache folder. In that case the content of the skin is checked, the name of the file will represent it and assures that skins are only shown to other players, if the files are really identical.
-Or put the skins in the planes' folders. In that case the name of the skin is checked, but the content doesn't matter at all. So, if you use a file with the same name but different content - e.g. a one-coloured skin instead of a historical correct one - the game still shows this skin, if others use their version. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If those two same possibilities were true, there would be no DL problems once a skin got passed around, thus no one complaing, thus no need for this topic.

But, that *check* method can not be true. In that it would mean that there is some kind of master server asigning numbers to skins and insuring that once that number gets used for one skin it does not get asigned to any other. So, that is very unlikly. If you want to prove it to yourself, find a buddy and go online and take one skin and rename copy it twice in one of your aircraft directorys, so that you have the same skin in there twice. Now, have your buddy empty his cache. Go online and get side by side on the runway. Load skin #1 have your buddy confirm he sees that skin. Exit the plane (refly) and seclect skins #2 and then hit fly. Ill bet your buddy wont see it right away and will have the wait the same amout of time for his PC to load it before he sees it. Once he does see it. Both of you exit the game, have your buddy check his cache and he will see TWO skins not ONE. Which means even though the TWO skins were the same skins they had to be downloaded twice.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
So the best solution would be to deliver two files for each skin:
-one for the net-cache
-and if users wish to actively use the skins, one with a more distinct name, to put the file into the plane folder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If your assumption is true that eveyone gets the same *check* number, which Im sure is not the case. It might be active within one session of a game, but once you leave that server it would reset.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
That helps to keep the folder clean and still enables players to see others' skins. And by relying on the net cache, people will see what they are supposed to see, because the content of the file is checked, not only its name. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagree 100%

Atzebrueck
09-24-2005, 07:31 PM
I would still say the number of the cached skin files is created somehow according to the content: Same file equals same name. So maybe no "master server" but a "master algorithm" found anywhere in the IL2 files that determines how to name the skin. The numbers aren't random.

At least I have tested that with JG51_Hesse. One time I downloaded a skin he used. Next time he deleted this skin and downloaded it while I was using it. The numbers we got were identical.
As you said different names are possible. So, I think I have to alter my thesis a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. At least the example you were talking about disproves that it's only the content that matters. Maybe the name of the original skin, the IP, session or whatever are important, too. There are enough options to think about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Though, as far as I remember we restarted the server and always got the same number. But as we ran this test two months ago, I'm not sure anymore if we really created more than one session per skin and if we used different initial file names. So, I'll have to check both possibilities again.

Additionally, IL2 maybe creates a second file, if the first hasn't been completely downloaded before leaving the game.


What do you think how the file names are chosen? I thought of a system similar to the p2p services. At least the fact that the same number appeared during several tests is worth more than "Disagree 100%" in my opinion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

hobnail
09-25-2005, 05:06 AM
The ability to swap cached skins (with those funky long alphanumeric names) ceased to function some time after the release of IL2:FB and it's 1024 skins...

Some standardising/publicising of this feature would be great for future Maddox sims. I mean textures aren't going to get any smaller in years to come...

TAGERT.
09-26-2005, 09:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
I would still say the number of the cached skin files is created somehow according to the content: Same file equals same name. So maybe no "master server" but a "master algorithm" found anywhere in the IL2 files that determines how to name the skin. The numbers aren't random.

At least I have tested that with JG51_Hesse. One time I downloaded a skin he used. Next time he deleted this skin and downloaded it while I was using it. The numbers we got were identical. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like a simple check sum.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
As you said different names are possible. So, I think I have to alter my thesis a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. At least the example you were talking about disproves that it's only the content that matters. Maybe the name of the original skin, the IP, session or whatever are important, too. There are enough options to think about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>One way to check, do that same test you did between the two of you but simply rename the skin. If the *number* is based off of the name it will be different, if it isnt it is based off of the content and probally some simple checksum algorithm.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
Though, as far as I remember we restarted the server and always got the same number. But as we ran this test two months ago, I'm not sure anymore if we really created more than one session per skin and if we used different initial file names. So, I'll have to check both possibilities again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, keep us posted.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
Additionally, IL2 maybe creates a second file, if the first hasn't been completely downloaded before leaving the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
What do you think how the file names are chosen? I thought of a system similar to the p2p services. At least the fact that the same number appeared during several tests is worth more than "Disagree 100%" in my opinion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, sounds like a simple check sum, but, would need to do more testing. But, you bring up a good point, that could elimnate the need for a master server.

For example

if PC1 has a skin that it wants to send to PC2 it would first calc the check sum (the number) of that file before sending it to PC2. To which PC2 could check it's cache to see if a file exists with that *number* at which point it would not have to DL the file again.

You know, actully I think your right and I was wrong.. That seems like a very doable method.. It would also account for when you copy something out of your cache and put it into your skin folder to use. So, Ill have to retract what I said and go with your line of thinking on this.

The only problem is if you open and edit that skin at all.. I mean one dot of color.. it will change the check sum and cause the file to be treated like a totally different file.

Prob is.. when I look in my cache I see alot of skins and pilot file that *look* identical.. thus I assumed my inital theory.. But I never actully applied a check sum to those simulart files to see if they were trully the same. Could be someone opened them and tweaked them in a very minor way.

So, with all that in mind.. if nobody ever emptied thier cache than serves should not see that much lag.. Unless that little *start* glitch we all see when someone hits refly is due to the *check* between PC1 and PC2 to see if they have the same file. Not to mention PC1 would have to do that with every other PC logged in.. i.e. PC2, PC3, PC4, PC5 ... PC32.