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rednas3636
08-20-2011, 04:20 AM
I'm not in beta, but i watched the gamescom demo yesterday.. Yes it looked awesome.. but unfortunately, you can summarise the whole 9 minutes in 3 words: Dude smashes ants, if you know what i mean.

I thought ACB was on the edge, but ACR has gone slightly over it IMO..
oh and the AI =p (again) i know it's in all the previous games, but it really bothers me you can just walk past them.

unfortunately, the story has become pretty much like the gameplay. Ezio has never been in danger the whole time, right after he was threwn out a chariot he just went on with one-shotting random dudes. When he charged Leandros, he simply kicked mr.Overlord's ***. Zero tensity.

I hope I made myself clear and that this post makes sense xp)

rednas3636
08-20-2011, 04:20 AM
I'm not in beta, but i watched the gamescom demo yesterday.. Yes it looked awesome.. but unfortunately, you can summarise the whole 9 minutes in 3 words: Dude smashes ants, if you know what i mean.

I thought ACB was on the edge, but ACR has gone slightly over it IMO..
oh and the AI =p (again) i know it's in all the previous games, but it really bothers me you can just walk past them.

unfortunately, the story has become pretty much like the gameplay. Ezio has never been in danger the whole time, right after he was threwn out a chariot he just went on with one-shotting random dudes. When he charged Leandros, he simply kicked mr.Overlord's ***. Zero tensity.

I hope I made myself clear and that this post makes sense xp)

Mr_Shade
08-20-2011, 05:46 AM
I will move this thread to the console forum.

The beta forum is for beta topics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SupremeCaptain
08-20-2011, 05:49 AM
I agree, TC. But hopefully the demo's difficulty was done for consistency.

Mr_Shade
08-20-2011, 05:57 AM
Remember a demo played at a show - may have very different difficultly than the final game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If it's a public demo on a pod - if it's too hard, people won't enjoy it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If it's a stage demo - then rather than look a fool and die, sometimes they 'cheat' a little http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ProdiGurl
08-20-2011, 06:20 AM
As I see it, Ubisoft is still working on this - if they can produce a brilliant game like ACB with its gorgeous graphics, in depth story-line, beautiful music, intriguing characters, challenging missions and fantastically awesome kill streaks, I'm not real worried that they'll blow it w/ ACR.

The 2 trailers I just watched have totally impressed me. The only thing that will suck is that this is the last of Ezio. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

This will be the first game [series] I actually buy when it first comes out at full price. Well worth it.

Rakudaton
08-20-2011, 06:31 AM
I really worry about the difficulty. I think they should include a hardcore mode where you can't carry as much, medicine only heals you over time and can be taken only out of battle, and so on.

Or they could just include difficulty settings like 90% of games out there. WHY IS IT SO EASY?!

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

ProdiGurl
08-20-2011, 06:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rakudaton:
I really worry about the difficulty. I think they should include a hardcore mode where you can't carry as much, medicine only heals you over time and can be taken only out of battle, and so on.

Or they could just include difficulty settings like 90% of games out there. WHY IS IT SO" EASY?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was the one thing I complained about a few wks ago on my first time playing this. Only it wasn't easy for me.
I'm a decent gamer . . I don't totally suck, I get the job done but it was WAYYYY too hard for me as an AC Noob.
I never threw rage tantrums like I did with this one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif I wanted to be able to set my first play to 'normal' skill level - I felt like they threw me right into Professional.

That would be a great feature in future games even tho I admit, it pushed me to play alot better and my 2nd run-thru I'm on now is a whole lot better and easier because of that.

LightRey
08-20-2011, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
Remember a demo played at a show - may have very different difficultly than the final game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If it's a public demo on a pod - if it's too hard, people won't enjoy it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If it's a stage demo - then rather than look a fool and die, sometimes they 'cheat' a little http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This. Very much this.

Blind2Society
08-20-2011, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
Remember a demo played at a show - may have very different difficultly than the final game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If it's a public demo on a pod - if it's too hard, people won't enjoy it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If it's a stage demo - then rather than look a fool and die, sometimes they 'cheat' a little http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I sure hope you're right because I agree with the op. Especially being able to run full speed by a guard two feet away and he doesn't notice.

Also the point of never feeling like your in any danger. In ACB you get shot twice and it doesn't affect anything. And falling off a cliff like Ezio does in ACR and just climbing back up and killing people at will is a bit over the top.

Oh and I almost forgot, in ACB Ezio was quite literally invinsible. I hope they fixed that.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 12:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
Remember a demo played at a show - may have very different difficultly than the final game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If it's a public demo on a pod - if it's too hard, people won't enjoy it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If it's a stage demo - then rather than look a fool and die, sometimes they 'cheat' a little http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I sure hope you're right because I agree with the op. Especially being able to run full speed by a guard two feet away and he doesn't notice.

Also the point of never feeling like your in any danger. In ACB you get shot twice and it doesn't affect anything. And falling off a cliff like Ezio does in ACR and just climbing back up and killing people at will is a bit over the top.

Oh and I almost forgot, in ACB Ezio was quite literally invinsible. I hope they fixed that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
he fell down a ravine and grabbed at handholds to stop his fall. and you can't just run past guards without them noticing you. if you pay attention, you can hear that they detect him when he does that. Also, walking past a guard quietly when his back is turned is totally normal, even for AC1.

Blind2Society
08-20-2011, 01:45 PM
He clearly fell all the way down to where the coach landed and he landed very hard. Also the guards Ezio runs by before climbing from the gaurds point of view most certainly would have seen him before he did. I suppose that could have been just for that part where they show it from their perspective but how do you explain away the one as Altair?

SupremeCaptain
08-20-2011, 01:58 PM
The guards will hear you if you run.

ION_05
08-20-2011, 02:48 PM
The guards should only hear you if you sprint, not jog.

dchil279
08-20-2011, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
As I see it, Ubisoft is still working on this - if they can produce a brilliant game like ACB with its gorgeous graphics, in depth story-line, beautiful music, intriguing characters, challenging missions and fantastically awesome kill streaks, I'm not real worried that they'll blow it w/ ACR.

The 2 trailers I just watched have totally impressed me. The only thing that will suck is that this is the last of Ezio. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

This will be the first game [series] I actually buy when it first comes out at full price. Well worth it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree w/ a few points: first of all AC:B didn't have an "in-depth" storyline. I love that game to depth but the story didn't live up to it's potential for some reason. However this is a very tired argument so if someone replies to this post please don't just respond to that because that is no the main focus of this post.

The second thing is that I didn't like the way you executed the killstreaks in AC:B. I think that in AC:R they can keep them, but make them difficult to pull off rather than just having to point the left joystick and mash square for 10 seconds to kill 50 enemies. They could add a timing element to it, so that if you are to quick or slow maybe they can add an animation where Ezio misses and the opponent counters him.

The third thing is that I hated the trailer that they released at gamescom. To me it felt fan-made, unprofessional, and didn't really show what AC is about.

On a different note I hope that the part of the game that the demo shows will be tweaked a lot because I hated how we just walk up to Leandros and kil him. They should make him fight you, or devise a way to have him killed stealthily.

The last thing I want to complain about is the slo-mo kills that are being incorporated into the game. To me, that just shows how they are straying from the original ideals of assassin's creed to appeal to the casual, mindless fun loving gamers. But if they at least give us the option to turn them off I won't really have anything to complain about.

**EDIT: I also think it's ridiculous how at 7:35 Altair runs past a guard without him even turning around.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
As I see it, Ubisoft is still working on this - if they can produce a brilliant game like ACB with its gorgeous graphics, in depth story-line, beautiful music, intriguing characters, challenging missions and fantastically awesome kill streaks, I'm not real worried that they'll blow it w/ ACR.

The 2 trailers I just watched have totally impressed me. The only thing that will suck is that this is the last of Ezio. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

This will be the first game [series] I actually buy when it first comes out at full price. Well worth it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree w/ a few points: first of all AC:B didn't have an "in-depth" storyline. I love that game to depth but the story didn't live up to it's potential for some reason. However this is a very tired argument so if someone replies to this post please don't just respond to that because that is no the main focus of this post.

The second thing is that I didn't like the way you executed the killstreaks in AC:B. I think that in AC:R they can keep them, but make them difficult to pull off rather than just having to point the left joystick and mash square for 10 seconds to kill 50 enemies. They could add a timing element to it, so that if you are to quick or slow maybe they can add an animation where Ezio misses and the opponent counters him.

The third thing is that I hated the trailer that they released at gamescom. To me it felt fan-made, unprofessional, and didn't really show what AC is about.

On a different note I hope that the part of the game that the demo shows will be tweaked a lot because I hated how we just walk up to Leandros and kil him. They should make him fight you, or devise a way to have him killed stealthily.

The last thing I want to complain about is the slo-mo kills that are being incorporated into the game. To me, that just shows how they are straying from the original ideals of assassin's creed to appeal to the casual, mindless fun loving gamers. But if they at least give us the option to turn them off I won't really have anything to complain about.

**EDIT: I also think it's ridiculous how at 7:35 Altair runs past a guard without him even turning around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is really weird, that didn't happen for Ezio when he ran past one.

I find it funny how you say that slo mo kills are appealing to "fun loving gamers", and you say it like it's a bad thing. I certainly know I play Assassin's Creed because it's fun. They are cool, they showcase the awesome animation, and yes, if you really want to, you can turn them off.

I think the gamescom trailer was awesome, and I saw them incorporate some ideas used by some of the better fan-made videos, but with their bigger resources and in-game capturing tech, it looked better. It showed exactly what AC is about: being a Badarse. You probably just aren't a fan of fast paced electronic music.

I think that there should be some enemies that have to be whittled down by doing damage before they can be killed by a killstreak, but they should take SOME damage from killstreaks. If enemies attack more often and quicker, and do more damage, it'll all be fine.

dchil279
08-20-2011, 03:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
As I see it, Ubisoft is still working on this - if they can produce a brilliant game like ACB with its gorgeous graphics, in depth story-line, beautiful music, intriguing characters, challenging missions and fantastically awesome kill streaks, I'm not real worried that they'll blow it w/ ACR.

The 2 trailers I just watched have totally impressed me. The only thing that will suck is that this is the last of Ezio. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

This will be the first game [series] I actually buy when it first comes out at full price. Well worth it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree w/ a few points: first of all AC:B didn't have an "in-depth" storyline. I love that game to depth but the story didn't live up to it's potential for some reason. However this is a very tired argument so if someone replies to this post please don't just respond to that because that is no the main focus of this post.

The second thing is that I didn't like the way you executed the killstreaks in AC:B. I think that in AC:R they can keep them, but make them difficult to pull off rather than just having to point the left joystick and mash square for 10 seconds to kill 50 enemies. They could add a timing element to it, so that if you are to quick or slow maybe they can add an animation where Ezio misses and the opponent counters him.

The third thing is that I hated the trailer that they released at gamescom. To me it felt fan-made, unprofessional, and didn't really show what AC is about.

On a different note I hope that the part of the game that the demo shows will be tweaked a lot because I hated how we just walk up to Leandros and kil him. They should make him fight you, or devise a way to have him killed stealthily.

The last thing I want to complain about is the slo-mo kills that are being incorporated into the game. To me, that just shows how they are straying from the original ideals of assassin's creed to appeal to the casual, mindless fun loving gamers. But if they at least give us the option to turn them off I won't really have anything to complain about.

**EDIT: I also think it's ridiculous how at 7:35 Altair runs past a guard without him even turning around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is really weird, that didn't happen for Ezio when he ran past one.

I find it funny how you say that slo mo kills are appealing to "fun loving gamers", and you say it like it's a bad thing. I certainly know I play Assassin's Creed because it's fun. They are cool, they showcase the awesome animation, and yes, if you really want to, you can turn them off.

I think the gamescom trailer was awesome, and I saw them incorporate some ideas used by some of the better fan-made videos, but with their bigger resources and in-game capturing tech, it looked better. It showed exactly what AC is about: being a Badarse. You probably just aren't a fan of fast paced electronic music.

I think that there should be some enemies that have to be whittled down by doing damage before they can be killed by a killstreak, but they should take SOME damage from killstreaks. If enemies attack more often and quicker, and do more damage, it'll all be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
First of all I said mindless fun loving gamers (with mindless describing fun not gamers, I realize that there is no way to tell when it's written). If I want mindless fun I'll just buy CoD (not bashing CoD), I do enjoy CoD and AC but for differnt reasons: CoD because of said mindless fun, and AC because it's not mindless.

AC was not originally about being a badass, it was about being a cold, calculating killer who instills fear into his enemies. I love the character of Ezio so I don't mind that he's not "cold" but I want to have to calculate, and above all be challenged.

also a question for you: when did you start playing AC and which game was your first? I ask this just so I can understand why you make your argument better.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
As I see it, Ubisoft is still working on this - if they can produce a brilliant game like ACB with its gorgeous graphics, in depth story-line, beautiful music, intriguing characters, challenging missions and fantastically awesome kill streaks, I'm not real worried that they'll blow it w/ ACR.

The 2 trailers I just watched have totally impressed me. The only thing that will suck is that this is the last of Ezio. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

This will be the first game [series] I actually buy when it first comes out at full price. Well worth it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree w/ a few points: first of all AC:B didn't have an "in-depth" storyline. I love that game to depth but the story didn't live up to it's potential for some reason. However this is a very tired argument so if someone replies to this post please don't just respond to that because that is no the main focus of this post.

The second thing is that I didn't like the way you executed the killstreaks in AC:B. I think that in AC:R they can keep them, but make them difficult to pull off rather than just having to point the left joystick and mash square for 10 seconds to kill 50 enemies. They could add a timing element to it, so that if you are to quick or slow maybe they can add an animation where Ezio misses and the opponent counters him.

The third thing is that I hated the trailer that they released at gamescom. To me it felt fan-made, unprofessional, and didn't really show what AC is about.

On a different note I hope that the part of the game that the demo shows will be tweaked a lot because I hated how we just walk up to Leandros and kil him. They should make him fight you, or devise a way to have him killed stealthily.

The last thing I want to complain about is the slo-mo kills that are being incorporated into the game. To me, that just shows how they are straying from the original ideals of assassin's creed to appeal to the casual, mindless fun loving gamers. But if they at least give us the option to turn them off I won't really have anything to complain about.

**EDIT: I also think it's ridiculous how at 7:35 Altair runs past a guard without him even turning around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is really weird, that didn't happen for Ezio when he ran past one.

I find it funny how you say that slo mo kills are appealing to "fun loving gamers", and you say it like it's a bad thing. I certainly know I play Assassin's Creed because it's fun. They are cool, they showcase the awesome animation, and yes, if you really want to, you can turn them off.

I think the gamescom trailer was awesome, and I saw them incorporate some ideas used by some of the better fan-made videos, but with their bigger resources and in-game capturing tech, it looked better. It showed exactly what AC is about: being a Badarse. You probably just aren't a fan of fast paced electronic music.

I think that there should be some enemies that have to be whittled down by doing damage before they can be killed by a killstreak, but they should take SOME damage from killstreaks. If enemies attack more often and quicker, and do more damage, it'll all be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
First of all I said mindless fun loving gamers (with mindless describing fun not gamers, I realize that there is no way to tell when it's written). If I want mindless fun I'll just buy CoD (not bashing CoD), I do enjoy CoD and AC but for differnt reasons: CoD because of said mindless fun, and AC because it's not mindless.

AC was not originally about being a badass, it was about being a cold, calculating killer who instills fear into his enemies. I love the character of Ezio so I don't mind that he's not "cold" but I want to have to calculate, and above all be challenged.

also a question for you: when did you start playing AC and which game was your first? I ask this just so I can understand why you make your argument better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I started playing AC1 in 2007.

AC was Always about being a badarse, but the ways in which you can do that have been increasing and improving with every game.

People who enjoy games that present their action well are not automatically mindless. I enjoy sneaking around tactically in AC, but if I'm in combat, I also love to be able to fluidly take out my enemies. I would enjoy more challenge in the combat aspect of the game, but if Ubisoft makes the animations better and adds aspects to it that improve the presentation, such as slow motion for the least kill of the fight, and fluid camera zoom to show it off, then I won't complain.

It instills fear into your enemies to totally dominate them in a fight, too.

Once again, I would enjoy more difficulty in the combat, but I don't think that they really need to change the system itself to do that, guards just need to attack more often, and faster, and do more damage.

This makes keeping a combo chain going a true challenge, and forces you to react with counters, grab breaks, and dodges, all the while continuing to move like a whirlwind of destruction.

Ezio is just as cold as Altair was, when it comes to taking people out. He is more at ease with those he cares about, but that's just his personality.

I don't understand why you think that ANY improvement to the game would not draw in more casual gamers. If you improve any part of the game, or make anything cooler, I'm sorry, but it WILL draw in more people who maybe aren't as experienced with games. But is that a bad thing? It means that more people are being shown tactical play, and interesting and thought provoking stories.

Maybe they get drawn in by the cool effects and graphics, but they leave with more knowledge of video-games. And for those of us who already had that knowledge, stuff like a fast-paced techno song or slow motion only enhances our enjoyment of an awesome thing!

Rea1SamF1sher
08-20-2011, 05:08 PM
The looks really, really dumb. Yes I know it was demo. But since the begin of the franchise it was getting easier and easier by improving the combat and making it as dynamical as possible. The game hasn't got any difficulty. It's very easy to play and it makes it really boring after some time. I though Ubi would spent more into the AI development now. They shouldn't always attack one by one but in a group. Give the AI more Intelligence. Give this game a difficulty mode to choose from three difficulty levels. As it is now, it looks even worse then Brotherhood.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 05:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andre202:
The looks really, really dumb. Yes I know it was demo. But since the begin of the franchise it was getting easier and easier by improving the combat and making it as dynamical as possible. The game hasn't got any difficulty. It's very easy to play and it makes it really boring after some time. I though Ubi would spent more into the AI development now. They shouldn't always attack one by one but in a group. Give the AI more Intelligence. Give this game a difficulty mode to choose from three difficulty levels. As it is now, it looks even worse then Brotherhood. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like.

Animuses
08-20-2011, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
First of all I said mindless fun loving gamers (with mindless describing fun not gamers, I realize that there is no way to tell when it's written). If I want mindless fun I'll just buy CoD (not bashing CoD), I do enjoy CoD and AC but for differnt reasons: CoD because of said mindless fun, and AC because it's not mindless.

AC was not originally about being a badass, it was about being a cold, calculating killer who instills fear into his enemies. I love the character of Ezio so I don't mind that he's not "cold" but I want to have to calculate, and above all be challenged.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How is slow motion kills for mindless gamers? That doesn't make sense. You're getting worked up over something as simple as that... If you like, you like it, it doesn't make you "mindless".

IMO Altair was definitely portrayed as a badass in combat. Just play AC, he is no less of a badass than Ezio.

You can't tell people what AC was originally about. You are nothing but a fan of AC. It's only YOUR opinion.

dxsxhxcx
08-20-2011, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the bomb that guard throwed at us was probably part of the cutscene, I don't think the guards will have that at their disposal..

and how much do you want to bet that those (noob) guards at the beggining will be the majority of the guards we'll face while we are at Masyaf with Ezio?! :P

I'm sorry but (IMO) say that they were just low-level guards is just a excuse to not see how unbalanced the current enemy AI is...

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 06:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the bomb that guard throwed at us was probably part of the cutscene, I don't think the guards will have that at their disposal..

and how much do you want to bet that those (noob) guards at the beggining will be the majority of the guards we'll face while we are at Masyaf with Ezio?! :P

I'm sorry but (IMO) say that they were just low-level guards is just a excuse to not see how unbalanced the current enemy AI is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How well they fight has NOTHING to do with the AI.

We got an example of a single fight against only three of them. we don't know what damage they do, or anything.

And yes, they probably are the only guards you'll fight on your first visit to Masyaf, but when you return and you have way better abilities and skills, I'm sure they'll have janissaries and elite byzantines.

There have been multiple interviews where they said that they would give guards similar abilities to yours so that they're giving you a decent challenge. I would not doubt that some guards will be able to throw some type of bomb at you. If they put that in, I bet it goes into slow motion so you can dodge or something, but hey, at least they can break up the flow of combat for a bit, and possibly take some health away.

The actual AI was fine, they investigated the body, they investigated the distraction bomb, they noticed Ezio when he got in their line of sight, they heard him running behind their back and turned to try to shoot him. They were totally ok. What you're talking about is fighting behaviours, and those HAVE been known to change as the noobiest versions get replaced with competent ones throughout the game.

SupremeCaptain
08-20-2011, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the bomb that guard throwed at us was probably part of the cutscene, I don't think the guards will have that at their disposal..

and how much do you want to bet that those (noob) guards at the beggining will be the majority of the guards we'll face while we are at Masyaf with Ezio?! :P

I'm sorry but (IMO) say that they were just low-level guards is just a excuse to not see how unbalanced the current enemy AI is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How well they fight has NOTHING to do with the AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... Yes it does.

LightRey
08-20-2011, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the bomb that guard throwed at us was probably part of the cutscene, I don't think the guards will have that at their disposal..

and how much do you want to bet that those (noob) guards at the beggining will be the majority of the guards we'll face while we are at Masyaf with Ezio?! :P

I'm sorry but (IMO) say that they were just low-level guards is just a excuse to not see how unbalanced the current enemy AI is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How well they fight has NOTHING to do with the AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... Yes it does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Barely. The only things the AI could add really is when to attack and in which way and both of those options are quite limited.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 06:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the bomb that guard throwed at us was probably part of the cutscene, I don't think the guards will have that at their disposal..

and how much do you want to bet that those (noob) guards at the beggining will be the majority of the guards we'll face while we are at Masyaf with Ezio?! :P

I'm sorry but (IMO) say that they were just low-level guards is just a excuse to not see how unbalanced the current enemy AI is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How well they fight has NOTHING to do with the AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... Yes it does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actual AI is how they independently react to the environment around them. In a fight, they are programmed to do specific things at a slightly randomized rate, and nothing can stop them from trying to do those things short of being killed.

So we can't talk about the investigation and detection AI as the same thing as the "combat subroutines".

ProdiGurl
08-20-2011, 07:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">also a question for you: when did you start playing AC and which game was your first? I ask this just so I can understand why you make your argument better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Dchil asked this of Cal.,
for me (sorry to repeat this again the forum, I've said it a couple times recently) -
ACB is my first & only game played so far - got it becuz my gamer friend recommended it over 2 other FPS games I was considering (and he did tell me it was story intensive & to play all 3) -

So I have no background to make any of my opinions on other than ACB alone & my recent experience with it.

But even still, according to what I do know & experienced, I do hold these opinions. It's my belief that the first game you play in a series is the one you're most partial to and biased towards when it comes to any other games produced in that series.
Most here speak alot of Altair, I never saw him yet. I only know Ezio and why I only care about him as a character.

SixKeys
08-20-2011, 08:30 PM
I would disagree with that. It may be true if the first game makes you a fan of the series, but I know plenty of people who were disappointed with AC1 and thought it was a failed concept, then they played AC2 and became fans.

Blind2Society
08-20-2011, 08:36 PM
I'm cetainly not one of those people.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
I'm cetainly not one of those people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was one of the people who started playing like "THIS IS AWESOME", and then did the investigations for Tamir and was like "this is still the introduction/tutorial, it'll get better".

Then I did Garnier's and was like "Ok, I'm sure they're going to introduce another element to the game other than assassinations and investigations, like the stealth army-crushing or tomb skulking at the beginning" and then I continued and lost my enjoyment of every bit of the game, until the Arsuf mission and the Al Mualim part.

And then I paced around the city looking for something to do, and there was no interesting dialogue to listen to (unless you count this utter annoyance fuel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_0kIwJkKBU)
and I got really bored, and stopped playing.

then I followed AC2's development, and bought it when it came out. Aside from the slow start with Desmond getting into boring fist-fights and doing terrible stealth, I was totally hooked on the game, and it held my interest by changing the set-up to each assassination every time, sometimes through investigation, sometimes through planning with a smarter person, and sometimes through Ezio's (my) own creative approach to whatever fortress they were holed up in.

And not every target made some pseudo intellectual claim that they were innocent, which was a plus, that got really obnoxious and repetitive in AC1.

AC2 was the greatest Assassin's Creed game ever made.
Except for the boss fights. What the heck, Rodrigo? You're a fat guy with no armor. how do you survive so many hits???

Rea1SamF1sher
08-20-2011, 08:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am waiting for it already for two games. I am not asking to change the combat. But if you do improve the combat you need to improve the AI too to compensate for the difficulty. As it is til now, they always improved combat but didn't touch the AI that much. Maybe you are right. I would be glad if what you say is true. But if the next guards just have more Health Points then the others, it would be a very weak AI again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SixKeys:
I would disagree with that. It may be true if the first game makes you a fan of the series, but I know plenty of people who were disappointed with AC1 and thought it was a failed concept, then they played AC2 and became fans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The only mistake AC1 made is the lack of variation in gameplay. It was their first attempt of making a Social Stealth Game. AC2 did slightly improve but made the game, the combat to easy, although people critizes the lack of challenge and difficulty. There isn't a lot we heard from Revelations that these issues will be taken into consideration. ACB did really only add the MP but haven't done anything to add to the Social Stealth aspect. It even made the combat more easier, which is already easy enough and took the freedom by having scripted missions.

At the moment it does look like ACR won't be different. Why would they choose to make the AI more "dumb" when showing gameplay? I mean it would look a lot more epic if you fight against a powerful and trained group of guards and win against them instead seeing Ezio using Counter Attack (just one guard is attacking) and kill the rest in a "kill streak" like it's nothing special for him.

LightRey
08-20-2011, 08:59 PM
I generally don't have a (major) preference to any part of a series. I find AC1 to be just as enjoyable as ACII or ACB.

SupremeCaptain
08-20-2011, 09:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the bomb that guard throwed at us was probably part of the cutscene, I don't think the guards will have that at their disposal..

and how much do you want to bet that those (noob) guards at the beggining will be the majority of the guards we'll face while we are at Masyaf with Ezio?! :P

I'm sorry but (IMO) say that they were just low-level guards is just a excuse to not see how unbalanced the current enemy AI is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How well they fight has NOTHING to do with the AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... Yes it does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actual AI is how they independently react to the environment around them. In a fight, they are programmed to do specific things at a slightly randomized rate, and nothing can stop them from trying to do those things short of being killed.

So we can't talk about the investigation and detection AI as the same thing as the "combat subroutines". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what an AI is...

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Not really. Those three guards were the noobiest possible ones. they weren't even low-level Jannisaries. We don't know what the guards we fight for most of the game will attack like, but what we do know is that they lower teh agressiveness of the guards for every walkthrough they do. We didn't see enough actual combat to judge appropriately, and we don't know if guards will normally use bombs like the one at the beginning. This is still the intro to the game, they'll make the guards not use a lot of things to make it easier for the player. Just wait and see what the difficulty is actually like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the bomb that guard throwed at us was probably part of the cutscene, I don't think the guards will have that at their disposal..

and how much do you want to bet that those (noob) guards at the beggining will be the majority of the guards we'll face while we are at Masyaf with Ezio?! :P

I'm sorry but (IMO) say that they were just low-level guards is just a excuse to not see how unbalanced the current enemy AI is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How well they fight has NOTHING to do with the AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... Yes it does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actual AI is how they independently react to the environment around them. In a fight, they are programmed to do specific things at a slightly randomized rate, and nothing can stop them from trying to do those things short of being killed.

So we can't talk about the investigation and detection AI as the same thing as the "combat subroutines". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what an AI is... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as "things that an NPC is programmed to do".

LightRey
08-20-2011, 09:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as "things that an NPC is programmed to do". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well that depends. In general AI is really just a term that applies to any series of algorithms that can perform tasks independently, but there is probably a more specific definition regarding video games and such.

ProdiGurl
08-20-2011, 09:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SixKeys:
I would disagree with that. It may be true if the first game makes you a fan of the series, but I know plenty of people who were disappointed with AC1 and thought it was a failed concept, then they played AC2 and became fans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well not every game attracts followers even if it is good. They just didn't care for #1.

Everybody has their own personal taste, but I can bet that if they loved ACII, they'll judge Brotherhood alot harsher based on what they loved about ACII since that's what attracted them to it.

People tend to be doing that here on ACB - & that's fine & understandable, I would too if I had played an earlier version. But I didn't.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 09:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as "things that an NPC is programmed to do". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well that depends. In general AI is really just a term that applies to any series of algorithms that can perform tasks independently, but there is probably a more specific definition regarding video games and such. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't thnk of it as the same thing because combat doesn't rely on any algorithims, they will attempt to do their thing no matter what, whereas a patrol path or investigation of a body is something that can be inturrupted by them seeing a different factor. As soon as they enter combat, they are mindless. It doesn't seem that way, because if they did have some intelligence, they would still be fighting you. But instead, they all morph together into one big combat routine mass, which says "guard 1 attack. guard 2 attack. guard 3 grab. guard 4 throw sand, attack". I don't find that the same thing at all as individual intelligences walking along a patrol path, reacting to factors they come into contact with with personalized responses.

The combat AI does not need to have any features added to it. it just needs to say "Guard 1, throw sand while guard two attacks quickly, guard 3 grab while guard 4 attacks, guards 5 and six, attack simultaneously". That's just tweaking the input.

LightRey
08-20-2011, 10:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as "things that an NPC is programmed to do". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well that depends. In general AI is really just a term that applies to any series of algorithms that can perform tasks independently, but there is probably a more specific definition regarding video games and such. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't thnk of it as the same thing because combat doesn't rely on any algorithims, they will attempt to do their thing no matter what, whereas a patrol path or investigation of a body is something that can be inturrupted by them seeing a different factor. As soon as they enter combat, they are mindless. It doesn't seem that way, because if they did have some intelligence, they would still be fighting you. But instead, they all morph together into one big combat routine mass, which says "guard 1 attack. guard 2 attack. guard 3 grab. guard 4 throw sand, attack". I don't find that the same thing at all as individual intelligences walking along a patrol path, reacting to factors they come into contact with with personalized responses.

The combat AI does not need to have any features added to it. it just needs to say "Guard 1, throw sand while guard two attacks quickly, guard 3 grab while guard 4 attacks, guards 5 and six, attack simultaneously". That's just tweaking the input. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You make a good point. I'm inclined to agree with you on this.

dchil279
08-21-2011, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
First of all I said mindless fun loving gamers (with mindless describing fun not gamers, I realize that there is no way to tell when it's written). If I want mindless fun I'll just buy CoD (not bashing CoD), I do enjoy CoD and AC but for differnt reasons: CoD because of said mindless fun, and AC because it's not mindless.

AC was not originally about being a badass, it was about being a cold, calculating killer who instills fear into his enemies. I love the character of Ezio so I don't mind that he's not "cold" but I want to have to calculate, and above all be challenged.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How is slow motion kills for mindless gamers? That doesn't make sense. You're getting worked up over something as simple as that... If you like, you like it, it doesn't make you "mindless".

IMO Altair was definitely portrayed as a badass in combat. Just play AC, he is no less of a badass than Ezio.

You can't tell people what AC was originally about. You are nothing but a fan of AC. It's only YOUR opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
you are twisting my words, I didn't say it was for mindless gamers or liking it makes you "mindless", i said it was for people who like "mindless fun," however I have recently been updated as to the purpose and use of the slow-mo kills so I am no longer as angry about those.

Altair was a badass, but the combat and all of the missions in AC1 weren't designed specifically to make him look like as much of a badass as possible like they were in AC:B and that is a fact.

I guess you are right, It is just my opinion, but it is also the opinion of many other people as well.

A_E_D
08-21-2011, 10:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
How is slow motion kills for mindless gamers? That doesn't make sense. You're getting worked up over something as simple as that... If you like, you like it, it doesn't make you "mindless".

IMO Altair was definitely portrayed as a badass in combat. Just play AC, he is no less of a badass than Ezio.

You can't tell people what AC was originally about. You are nothing but a fan of AC. It's only YOUR opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
you are twisting my words, I didn't say it was for mindless gamers or liking it makes you "mindless", i said it was for people who like "mindless fun," however I have recently been updated as to the purpose and use of the slow-mo kills so I am no longer as angry about those.

Altair was a badass, but the combat and all of the missions in AC1 weren't designed specifically to make him look like as much of a badass as possible like they were in AC:B and that is a fact.

I guess you are right, It is just my opinion, but it is also the opinion of many other people as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree dchil279, although I kinda like the slo-mo kills

Calvarok
08-22-2011, 03:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
First of all I said mindless fun loving gamers (with mindless describing fun not gamers, I realize that there is no way to tell when it's written). If I want mindless fun I'll just buy CoD (not bashing CoD), I do enjoy CoD and AC but for differnt reasons: CoD because of said mindless fun, and AC because it's not mindless.

AC was not originally about being a badass, it was about being a cold, calculating killer who instills fear into his enemies. I love the character of Ezio so I don't mind that he's not "cold" but I want to have to calculate, and above all be challenged.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How is slow motion kills for mindless gamers? That doesn't make sense. You're getting worked up over something as simple as that... If you like, you like it, it doesn't make you "mindless".

IMO Altair was definitely portrayed as a badass in combat. Just play AC, he is no less of a badass than Ezio.

You can't tell people what AC was originally about. You are nothing but a fan of AC. It's only YOUR opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
you are twisting my words, I didn't say it was for mindless gamers or liking it makes you "mindless", i said it was for people who like "mindless fun," however I have recently been updated as to the purpose and use of the slow-mo kills so I am no longer as angry about those.

Altair was a badass, but the combat and all of the missions in AC1 weren't designed specifically to make him look like as much of a badass as possible like they were in AC:B and that is a fact.

I guess you are right, It is just my opinion, but it is also the opinion of many other people as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I think that the fact that you didn't get reminded how cool you were very often in AC1 took away from a lot of people's enjoyment of it. Killing lots of guards was rewarded with tons more spawning out of nowhere to investigate, guards would easily keep up with you if you ran away, and combat barely showed off your skills.

But it was still a good game.

dchil279
08-22-2011, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
And I think that the fact that you didn't get reminded how cool you were very often in AC1 took away from a lot of people's enjoyment of it. Killing lots of guards was rewarded with tons more spawning out of nowhere to investigate, guards would easily keep up with you if you ran away, and combat barely showed off your skills.

But it was still a good game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what to tell you at this point except that I completely disagree and some of the reasons I liked the game were the features you mentioned because it was challenging and realistic.

Calvarok
08-22-2011, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
And I think that the fact that you didn't get reminded how cool you were very often in AC1 took away from a lot of people's enjoyment of it. Killing lots of guards was rewarded with tons more spawning out of nowhere to investigate, guards would easily keep up with you if you ran away, and combat barely showed off your skills.

But it was still a good game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what to tell you at this point except that I completely disagree and some of the reasons I liked the game were the features you mentioned because it was challenging and realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guards spawning out of nowhere before you've come out of combat was not realistic or challenging. Guards chasing you forever was not challenging. And actually, I should ammend that statement, they COULDN'T keep up. It's just that you couldn't escape from them by being out of line of sight for too long, unless you ran literally all the way across the city.

It was Tedious, not realistic or challenging.

Did I think "Oh no, I'm going to get killed by these guards"?
No, I thought "Oh no, I'm going to have to counter each of these guards very slowly with the hidden blade, one at a time. And if I run, it will take me the good part of 3 minutes to escape from them unless I arbitrarily step inside a roof garden.

They know exactly where I am even if that place is a cement block 30000 feet under the city, and they will never be confused unless I sit on a bench, or hop in a bale of hay.

It was not the difficulty. it was not difficult. It just felt unreal, as if the game was cheating against you to make you use its method of escaping, which always seemed more inneficient than just running away from the guys in heavy armor who shouldn't be able to free-run.

It wasn't at all fun. There were fun parts of AC1, but combat, messing around with no mission, and escapes were not one of them.

Not even close. That game had so many arbitrary rules and ways that you had to do things in order to be considered right by it and allowed to succeed. I felt less free in Damascus than I ever did in Venice or Rome.

And it was a lot because I was allowed to choose how I wanted to escape, among other things.

dchil279
08-22-2011, 04:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
And I think that the fact that you didn't get reminded how cool you were very often in AC1 took away from a lot of people's enjoyment of it. Killing lots of guards was rewarded with tons more spawning out of nowhere to investigate, guards would easily keep up with you if you ran away, and combat barely showed off your skills.

But it was still a good game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what to tell you at this point except that I completely disagree and some of the reasons I liked the game were the features you mentioned because it was challenging and realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guards spawning out of nowhere before you've come out of combat was not realistic or challenging. Guards chasing you forever was not challenging. And actually, I should ammend that statement, they COULDN'T keep up. It's just that you couldn't escape from them by being out of line of sight for too long, unless you ran literally all the way across the city.

It was Tedious, not realistic or challenging.

Did I think "Oh no, I'm going to get killed by these guards"?
No, I thought "Oh no, I'm going to have to counter each of these guards very slowly with the hidden blade, one at a time. And if I run, it will take me the good part of 3 minutes to escape from them unless I arbitrarily step inside a roof garden.

They know exactly where I am even if that place is a cement block 30000 feet under the city, and they will never be confused unless I sit on a bench, or hop in a bale of hay.

It was not the difficulty. it was not difficult. It just felt unreal, as if the game was cheating against you to make you use its method of escaping, which always seemed more inneficient than just running away from the guys in heavy armor who shouldn't be able to free-run.

It wasn't at all fun. There were fun parts of AC1, but combat, messing around with no mission, and escapes were not one of them.

Not even close. That game had so many arbitrary rules and ways that you had to do things in order to be considered right by it and allowed to succeed. I felt less free in Damascus than I ever did in Venice or Rome.

And it was a lot because I was allowed to choose how I wanted to escape, among other things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, I don't know what to say except that I disagree with almost everything that you said (including when you said certain features were unrealistic)and that I loved most of the things that you hated.

Panfaun
08-22-2011, 05:46 PM
I think that Assassin's Creed is trying to do the Deus Ex Approach to gaming where you have multiple paths. But every path is too over powered and doesn't mix some elements. One bomb killed a whole group, kill chains have different but still instant kill, as do the crossbow and gun probably.

Lol, this game will make Acb look like a hard game. And that was the game where twenty guards were about thirty seconds of kill chains

Edit: o the posts on top, lol, Ac series is allot of things, but being realistic is not one of them. you sort of have to disband your notion of belief when you do.

LightRey
08-22-2011, 06:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
And I think that the fact that you didn't get reminded how cool you were very often in AC1 took away from a lot of people's enjoyment of it. Killing lots of guards was rewarded with tons more spawning out of nowhere to investigate, guards would easily keep up with you if you ran away, and combat barely showed off your skills.

But it was still a good game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what to tell you at this point except that I completely disagree and some of the reasons I liked the game were the features you mentioned because it was challenging and realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guards spawning out of nowhere before you've come out of combat was not realistic or challenging. Guards chasing you forever was not challenging. And actually, I should ammend that statement, they COULDN'T keep up. It's just that you couldn't escape from them by being out of line of sight for too long, unless you ran literally all the way across the city.

It was Tedious, not realistic or challenging.

Did I think "Oh no, I'm going to get killed by these guards"?
No, I thought "Oh no, I'm going to have to counter each of these guards very slowly with the hidden blade, one at a time. And if I run, it will take me the good part of 3 minutes to escape from them unless I arbitrarily step inside a roof garden.

They know exactly where I am even if that place is a cement block 30000 feet under the city, and they will never be confused unless I sit on a bench, or hop in a bale of hay.

It was not the difficulty. it was not difficult. It just felt unreal, as if the game was cheating against you to make you use its method of escaping, which always seemed more inneficient than just running away from the guys in heavy armor who shouldn't be able to free-run.

It wasn't at all fun. There were fun parts of AC1, but combat, messing around with no mission, and escapes were not one of them.

Not even close. That game had so many arbitrary rules and ways that you had to do things in order to be considered right by it and allowed to succeed. I felt less free in Damascus than I ever did in Venice or Rome.

And it was a lot because I was allowed to choose how I wanted to escape, among other things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, I don't know what to say except that I disagree with almost everything that you said (including when you said certain features were unrealistic)and that I loved most of the things that you hated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You think it's not unrealistic that guards know where to find you even if you're several blocks away from them and been out of their line of sight for a few minutes, or that you literally can't be harmed if you use the hidden blade and just counter every attack, or that in the middle of a fight guards for some reason stop paying attention for a few seconds during which you can kill them in an instant?

I completely agree with Calvarok. There was no challenge to fighting the guards in AC1. I even refuse to use the hidden blade in combat, because it's just way too easy to defeat them that way.

dchil279
08-22-2011, 07:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
You think it's not unrealistic that guards know where to find you even if you're several blocks away from them and been out of their line of sight for a few minutes, or that you literally can't be harmed if you use the hidden blade and just counter every attack, or that in the middle of a fight guards for some reason stop paying attention for a few seconds during which you can kill them in an instant?

I completely agree with Calvarok. There was no challenge to fighting the guards in AC1. I even refuse to use the hidden blade in combat, because it's just way too easy to defeat them that way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You "literally can't be harmed" when counter-attacking with the hidden blade? I hope you're kidding. It took very precise timing to counter with the hidden blade and when you missed, which was very easy to do, you would be harmed really. Also there were guards who could triple combo you which would leave you on the brink of death by itself.

It is somewhat unrealistic that they can find you blocks away from them, but it's possible that civilians can point out where they saw you go, and to avoid that all you have to do is hop on bench. And the guards don't stop paying attention they are either overcome with fear or taunting you, giving Altair, a skilled killer, the oppurtunity to strike.

If you refuse to use the hidden blade in AC1 because it was too easy then what the hell do you do in AC:B? only throw sand until they die? Because AC:B combat is 100x easier than AC1 (which you say was sooooo easy). AC:B combat requires less timing, less patience, less guessing, and above all you have 15 medicines.

LightRey
08-22-2011, 08:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
You think it's not unrealistic that guards know where to find you even if you're several blocks away from them and been out of their line of sight for a few minutes, or that you literally can't be harmed if you use the hidden blade and just counter every attack, or that in the middle of a fight guards for some reason stop paying attention for a few seconds during which you can kill them in an instant?

I completely agree with Calvarok. There was no challenge to fighting the guards in AC1. I even refuse to use the hidden blade in combat, because it's just way too easy to defeat them that way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You "literally can't be harmed" when counter-attacking with the hidden blade? I hope you're kidding. It took very precise timing to counter with the hidden blade and when you missed, which was very easy to do, you would be harmed really. Also there were guards who could triple combo you which would leave you on the brink of death by itself.

It is somewhat unrealistic that they can find you blocks away from them, but it's possible that civilians can point out where they saw you go, and to avoid that all you have to do is hop on bench. And the guards don't stop paying attention they are either overcome with fear or taunting you, giving Altair, a skilled killer, the oppurtunity to strike.

If you refuse to use the hidden blade in AC1 because it was too easy then what the hell do you do in AC:B? only throw sand until they die? Because AC:B combat is 100x easier than AC1 (which you say was sooooo easy). AC:B combat requires less timing, less patience, less guessing, and above all you have 15 medicines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you pay close enough attention to the fighting, you should rarely miss with the hidden blade. Not to mention you can just grab a guard, throw him to the ground, and then assassinate him. You can actually do this during a fight without any of the guards getting in your way. It really is that easy.

Seriously? The civilians pointing it out? They don't even care about you if they didn't see you fight, not to mention that the guards don't listen to the civilians if they did see you kill someone.

and yes, using the hidden blade in AC1 was soooooo easy, because if you're actually paying attention, you can't even get hit. At least in ACB I get the occasional spear in the face.

EDIT: also, the guards stopping to pay attention is not referring to them running away, it's referring to them looking around or performing a similar act of distraction for a few seconds during which you can kill them with the hidden blade, or directly hit them with the sword or shortblade through which you can very easily trigger a combo kill.

dchil279
08-22-2011, 08:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
You think it's not unrealistic that guards know where to find you even if you're several blocks away from them and been out of their line of sight for a few minutes, or that you literally can't be harmed if you use the hidden blade and just counter every attack, or that in the middle of a fight guards for some reason stop paying attention for a few seconds during which you can kill them in an instant?

I completely agree with Calvarok. There was no challenge to fighting the guards in AC1. I even refuse to use the hidden blade in combat, because it's just way too easy to defeat them that way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You "literally can't be harmed" when counter-attacking with the hidden blade? I hope you're kidding. It took very precise timing to counter with the hidden blade and when you missed, which was very easy to do, you would be harmed really. Also there were guards who could triple combo you which would leave you on the brink of death by itself.

It is somewhat unrealistic that they can find you blocks away from them, but it's possible that civilians can point out where they saw you go, and to avoid that all you have to do is hop on bench. And the guards don't stop paying attention they are either overcome with fear or taunting you, giving Altair, a skilled killer, the oppurtunity to strike.

If you refuse to use the hidden blade in AC1 because it was too easy then what the hell do you do in AC:B? only throw sand until they die? Because AC:B combat is 100x easier than AC1 (which you say was sooooo easy). AC:B combat requires less timing, less patience, less guessing, and above all you have 15 medicines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
point 1:If you pay close enough attention to the fighting, you should rarely miss with the hidden blade. Not to mention you can just grab a guard, throw him to the ground, and then assassinate him. You can actually do this during a fight without any of the guards getting in your way. It really is that easy.

point 2:Seriously? The civilians pointing it out? They don't even care about you if they didn't see you fight, not to mention that the guards don't listen to the civilians if they did see you kill someone.

point 3: and yes, using the hidden blade in AC1 was soooooo easy, because if you're actually paying attention, you can't even get hit. At least in ACB I get the occasional spear in the face. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have to pay close attention in AC1 but in ACB you can just mash X.

you win

If you're actually paying attention you can still get hit if the timing isn't right because the window fo HB counters was very very small. in ACB it is near impossible to get the timing wrong.

But look man, we obviously disagree and are both pretty stubborn on this matter so i know it's not fair for me to claim the last word for myself, so if you wanna reply one more time that's fine but I'm way to tired to keep finding new clever ways to say the same thing in each of my posts as I'm sure you are.

EDIT in reply to your edit, LightRey:
I wasn't talking about the guards running away either when I said that they would be "overcome with fear" I meant when they would be startled and scared at the nastiness of a kill you just made but not run away.

NewBlade200
08-22-2011, 08:22 PM
Combat in AC1 was harder because when you kill someone you couldn't insta kill everyone else in the group by slapping the controller. And it took precise timing to counter with any weapon (even more so with the hidden blade). And there wasn't a way to stun everyone if they got too close. And there wasn't a button you hold, just in case those crippled bunnys in guard uniforms got too scary for you, to kill them all at the same time.

LightRey
08-22-2011, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
You have to pay close attention in AC1 but in ACB you can just mash X.

you win

If you're actually paying attention you can still get hit if the timing isn't right because the window fo HB counters was very very small. in ACB it is near impossible to get the timing wrong.

But look man, we obviously disagree and are both pretty stubborn on this matter so i know it's not fair for me to claim the last word for myself, so if you wanna reply one more time that's fine but I'm way to tired to keep finding new clever ways to say the same thing in each of my posts as I'm sure you are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Meh, I'm done. I said all I wanted to say in my last post (if you include the edit). I really need to get some sleep anyways.

Calvarok
08-22-2011, 09:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
You think it's not unrealistic that guards know where to find you even if you're several blocks away from them and been out of their line of sight for a few minutes, or that you literally can't be harmed if you use the hidden blade and just counter every attack, or that in the middle of a fight guards for some reason stop paying attention for a few seconds during which you can kill them in an instant?

I completely agree with Calvarok. There was no challenge to fighting the guards in AC1. I even refuse to use the hidden blade in combat, because it's just way too easy to defeat them that way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You "literally can't be harmed" when counter-attacking with the hidden blade? I hope you're kidding. It took very precise timing to counter with the hidden blade and when you missed, which was very easy to do, you would be harmed really. Also there were guards who could triple combo you which would leave you on the brink of death by itself.

It is somewhat unrealistic that they can find you blocks away from them, but it's possible that civilians can point out where they saw you go, and to avoid that all you have to do is hop on bench. And the guards don't stop paying attention they are either overcome with fear or taunting you, giving Altair, a skilled killer, the oppurtunity to strike.

If you refuse to use the hidden blade in AC1 because it was too easy then what the hell do you do in AC:B? only throw sand until they die? Because AC:B combat is 100x easier than AC1 (which you say was sooooo easy). AC:B combat requires less timing, less patience, less guessing, and above all you have 15 medicines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
point 1:If you pay close enough attention to the fighting, you should rarely miss with the hidden blade. Not to mention you can just grab a guard, throw him to the ground, and then assassinate him. You can actually do this during a fight without any of the guards getting in your way. It really is that easy.

point 2:Seriously? The civilians pointing it out? They don't even care about you if they didn't see you fight, not to mention that the guards don't listen to the civilians if they did see you kill someone.

point 3: and yes, using the hidden blade in AC1 was soooooo easy, because if you're actually paying attention, you can't even get hit. At least in ACB I get the occasional spear in the face. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have to pay close attention in AC1 but in ACB you can just mash X.

you win

If you're actually paying attention you can still get hit if the timing isn't right because the window fo HB counters was very very small. in ACB it is near impossible to get the timing wrong.

But look man, we obviously disagree and are both pretty stubborn on this matter so i know it's not fair for me to claim the last word for myself, so if you wanna reply one more time that's fine but I'm way to tired to keep finding new clever ways to say the same thing in each of my posts as I'm sure you are.

EDIT in reply to your edit, LightRey:
I wasn't talking about the guards running away either when I said that they would be "overcome with fear" I meant when they would be startled and scared at the nastiness of a kill you just made but not run away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
In ACB, to get a combo kill you would at the very least have to dodge before you attack, or start off by countering. And whilst in combat, guards can attack you to pull you out of an animation, which they could not do in AC1. guard's weapons just ghost through you. Same thing for AC2.
There are several enemies whose weapons cannot be countered by anything but hidden blades, and the elite guards use pistols, which cannot be countered period. And there is the "throwing dust" attack, which you MUST dodge, or you will be vulnerable for a hit for about 2 seconds, as well as the grab break, which can lead to a bunch of hits on you if you're not paying atteniton.

So fighting is NOT just mashing X, it's about tapping X after every kill, and being ready to counter, dodge, or grab break at any second.

Whereas AC1 at its best was about coutner with hidden blade, counter with hidden blade, counter with hidden blade.

At its worse, you do the same thing as brotherhood at its worse: mash x on guys who are distracted. The difference between AC1 at its worst and Brotherhood at its worst is that in Brotherhood, the guards are being taken out by an enemy who is preforming quick, flowing, surgical kills on them.

In AC1, the guards are being taken out by an enemy who stands still untill one of them gets bored, and then dies, and over and over again for a long period of time.

One of these situations seems plausible and exciting, the other is implausible and boring.

Neither are skillful.

And the difference between AC1 at its best and ACB at its best are that in ACB, you are constantly reacting to what enemy is attacking you and what attack they are using, and taking that information to press one of 3 "don't get hit" buttons, which only corresponds to a specific ation. enemies come in on every type of attack rapidly, and your reflexes must be perfectly primed for each move telegraph.

In AC1 at its best, you either press A then x, then mash X, or time a press of X to an attack. Only the second approach requires any reflexes at all, and the reason why it's still not as skillful as brotherhood even though the counter window is much smaller is that it's only one type of thing. it's so much easier for your brain to process pressing a single button on a single tell. juggling 3 inputs and 3 reactive tells makes it far more difficult to keep up.

In fact, the only reason why people can't flawlessly kill everyone in AC1 is because the endless repetition of such a simple task causes slip-ups.

It's not actual difficulty if it relies on you growing bored to make mistakes.

And NewBlade 200, I will agree with you, Arrow Storm is ******ed.

If it took out only one or two guards, I would be ok with it.

AND to the person who said that the game will be easy, Alexandre said that they were trying to give the AI tools that the player has, to make them more challenging even though the player has the tools. So AI may have bombs of their own. : )

Don't judge the difficulty based on a single noob level.

LightRey
08-23-2011, 07:58 AM
in reply to dchil279's reply to my EDIT:
They do that too, but they also look around being distracted during combat every now and then, which was what I was referring to.

I would also like to say that by far ACII had the easiest combat. There's one simple move that is something of a crossing between a counter and a combo kill, which can be used to counter any move accept for the moves that break your guard (which you can just dodge, since it's easy to see them coming).

luckyto
08-23-2011, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you refuse to use the hidden blade in AC1 because it was too easy then what the hell do you do in AC:B? only throw sand until they die? Because AC:B combat is 100x easier than AC1 (which you say was sooooo easy). AC:B combat requires less timing, less patience, less guessing, and above all you have 15 medicines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree a 1000% with this statement.

To all the posters who say that AC1 is easy because all you do is stand there and counter, I say unto you: That is the quick and easy path.

Yes, you CAN do that. But that is boring, and not the way combat was intended.

If you fight with a little offense, AC is much more challenging. Getting well-timed combo strikes in AC is about the most difficult thing to attempt in any of the AC games. Attacking and then immediately going into a counter move as someone strikes you from behind takes timing and skill also. You have guards that can grab you (which you can counter), and guards that can counter. Try fighting a Templar without your counter kill ability yet. It's harder than anything anywhere in the series.

If you just stand there and wait for a counter, yes, it's easy and boring. But why play that way?

In AC, guards continue to come. As they should. In Brotherhood, I can wipeout every guard on the block in seconds. And the total is only half of what any large patrol in AC1 is.

Get in trouble? Hey, let's just use one of the 15 vials of medicine in my pouch. I NEVER have to run in Brotherhood. In AC, a few mistakes and I can find myself bailing for my life - and it is fun.

In Brotherhood, fighting is monotonous. Brutes and spears die this way, Agiles counter, Regulars attack. It is the same - over and over and over and over. In AC1, the different levels of guards and the chances they have to successfully counter you change the dynamic of almost every fight.

Of course, if you just sit there and counter, then yeah, it's monotonous. But you are getting out of the game what you are putting into it.

----
I'm not saying I don't like the chain-kill system, because it is the best thing in Brotherhood. It is dynamic and fast-paced, and is a decent complement to AC1's combat. But the guard types, the limited population of guards, the lack of regenerating patrols and Ezio's ridiculous arsenal reduce the combat to quick monotonous and ridiculously easy spats.

LightRey
08-23-2011, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luckyto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you refuse to use the hidden blade in AC1 because it was too easy then what the hell do you do in AC:B? only throw sand until they die? Because AC:B combat is 100x easier than AC1 (which you say was sooooo easy). AC:B combat requires less timing, less patience, less guessing, and above all you have 15 medicines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree a 1000% with this statement.

To all the posters who say that AC1 is easy because all you do is stand there and counter, I say unto you: That is the quick and easy path.

Yes, you CAN do that. But that is boring, and not the way combat was intended.

If you fight with a little offense, AC is much more challenging. Getting well-timed combo strikes in AC is about the most difficult thing to attempt in any of the AC games. Attacking and then immediately going into a counter move as someone strikes you from behind takes timing and skill also. You have guards that can grab you (which you can counter), and guards that can counter. Try fighting a Templar without your counter kill ability yet. It's harder than anything anywhere in the series.

If you just stand there and wait for a counter, yes, it's easy and boring. But why play that way?

In AC, guards continue to come. As they should. In Brotherhood, I can wipeout every guard on the block in seconds. And the total is only half of what any large patrol in AC1 is.

Get in trouble? Hey, let's just use one of the 15 vials of medicine in my pouch. I NEVER have to run in Brotherhood. In AC, a few mistakes and I can find myself bailing for my life - and it is fun.

In Brotherhood, fighting is monotonous. Brutes and spears die this way, Agiles counter, Regulars attack. It is the same - over and over and over and over. In AC1, the different levels of guards and the chances they have to successfully counter you change the dynamic of almost every fight.

Of course, if you just sit there and counter, then yeah, it's monotonous. But you are getting out of the game what you are putting into it.

----
I'm not saying I don't like the chain-kill system, because it is the best thing in Brotherhood. It is dynamic and fast-paced, and is a decent complement to AC1's combat. But the guard types, the limited population of guards, the lack of regenerating patrols and Ezio's ridiculous arsenal reduce the combat to quick monotonous and ridiculously easy spats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Technically you're agreeing with me here.

luckyto
08-23-2011, 10:32 AM
To a degree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I agree that it CAN be boring. But, I can very quickly change from a defensive approach to an offensive approach and it becomes engaging, even challenging at times.

Whereas, Brotherhood is always the same. Mostly monotonous with a few bouts of excitement that are far too brief. Sort of like marriage sex.

LightRey
08-23-2011, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luckyto:
To a degree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I agree that it CAN be boring. But, I can very quickly change from a defensive approach to an offensive approach and it becomes engaging, even challenging at times.

Whereas, Brotherhood is always the same. Mostly monotonous with a few bouts of excitement that are far too brief. Sort of like marriage sex. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was more referring to the fact that using the hidden blade in AC1 makes it so easy/unrealistic that you shouldn't use it.

luckyto
08-23-2011, 10:39 AM
If it makes it too easy, then I DO agree with you.

.. tho, i am curious, what is this hidden blade easiness you speak of? I thought - and maybe I'm doing it wrong - that it was harder to counter with the hidden blade than the other weapons in AC1.

LightRey
08-23-2011, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luckyto:
If it makes it too easy, then I DO agree with you.

.. tho, i am curious, what is this hidden blade easiness you speak of? I thought - and maybe I'm doing it wrong - that it was harder to counter with the hidden blade than the other weapons in AC1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, but you can counter any attack with an instant kill and during combat you can throw guards to the ground and kill them instantly, without much, if any, interference from the other guards.

dchil279
08-23-2011, 01:18 PM
I would be happy and never complain again if only they made counter kills harder to time, the way it was in AC1, and incorporate similar timing elements in the chain kill system.

crash3
08-23-2011, 02:35 PM
I'm amazed some people still defend the game's difficulty, come on guys you must be able to see that the gameplay in general (combat in particular) is too easy! Yes it's cool that Ezio's abilities have developed more and more but seriously, what has been done to improve the guards' abilities? If the develoers can put that much imagination into Ezio's skills, why cant they do it for the guards?

I hope that the storyline in ACR is so good that we forget about the ridiculously easy combat/gameplay

Animuses
08-23-2011, 02:48 PM
I just want the guards to be smarter and more aggressive without it being false difficulty that just irritates you. I wouldn't mind having the hidden blades precise timing back either.
Keep in mind though, the AC games are not intended to be difficult.

Calvarok
08-23-2011, 04:58 PM
If you're saying that AC1 is better than brotherhood if you don't use features of it, then what's stopping you from doing the same thing in Brotherhood? Dodging and attacking is the only way you can get a combo on most guards, and that's the same thing as stepping and attacking in AC1. In fact, it even uses the same contols, albeit not in high profile for AC1.

SlimeDynamiteD
08-24-2011, 12:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
As I see it, Ubisoft is still working on this - if they can produce a brilliant game like ACB with its gorgeous graphics, in depth story-line, beautiful music, intriguing characters, challenging missions and fantastically awesome kill streaks, I'm not real worried that they'll blow it w/ ACR.

The 2 trailers I just watched have totally impressed me. The only thing that will suck is that this is the last of Ezio. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

This will be the first game [series] I actually buy when it first comes out at full price. Well worth it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree with you more.
It's really easy to bash or criticize on a game that isn't even released yet, you haven't been able to had your hands on yet nor have you seen enough footage to base your opinion on.

Seriously, wait 'till you played it with criticizing, judging and bashing.

Calvarok
08-24-2011, 02:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlimeDynamiteD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
As I see it, Ubisoft is still working on this - if they can produce a brilliant game like ACB with its gorgeous graphics, in depth story-line, beautiful music, intriguing characters, challenging missions and fantastically awesome kill streaks, I'm not real worried that they'll blow it w/ ACR.

The 2 trailers I just watched have totally impressed me. The only thing that will suck is that this is the last of Ezio. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

This will be the first game [series] I actually buy when it first comes out at full price. Well worth it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree with you more.
It's really easy to bash or criticize on a game that isn't even released yet, you haven't been able to had your hands on yet nor have you seen enough footage to base your opinion on.

Seriously, wait 'till you played it with criticizing, judging and bashing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think a lot of what people are doing is getting their opinions out on what they DON'T want the game to be like. I take issue only with the people who mope around the forums and only badmouth the games, offering no solutions at all.

A tip to you guys: if you stopped just pining for AC1 and started writing down your thoughts about features that could return from AC1, or make the game more like AC1, without adding things that people don't like, then Ubisoft would be getting just that much more ideas from you.

And please, don't say things like "The gaming community is too casual to appreciate stealth and hard combat". Gamers are getting more hardcore as time goes by, more and more are looking for a challenge. Just get your ideas out there without bashing the games. I know that sometimes I can be a bit heartless with AC1, but I did love it, in a way. and I don't ever just say how much I hated it just because I'm talking about how much I like the new ones.
I only point out its flaws when people start pulling out the rose-tinted glasses.

Animuses
08-24-2011, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
If you're saying that AC1 is better than brotherhood if you don't use features of it, then what's stopping you from doing the same thing in Brotherhood? Dodging and attacking is the only way you can get a combo on most guards, and that's the same thing as stepping and attacking in AC1. In fact, it even uses the same contols, albeit not in high profile for AC1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Were you referring to me?