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View Full Version : How about a low-poly pilot for cockpit view?



DarkBlueMan
05-12-2005, 01:11 PM
Now this could be an idea for a future FB+PF patch or something for consideration in BoB...

As it stands, when in cockpit-view there is no visible pilot. The stick, rudder pedals, throttle etc, all move by invisible hands/feet. Wouldn't it be nice to have a low-poly pilot representation to show the aircraft being controled by something physical? The cockpit-view already places you in a position just in front of the virtual pilots face, so all that would be needed would be arms, hands, legs, feet (maybe chest) in low polys. I know LOMAC has this...
If the BoB engine (soon to be tested on FB+PF) will be using a little more CPU power for FM I'm sure a lo-res poly pilot (like the lo-res gunners and ground crew) wouldn't be too much of a drain on the CPU. If it was heavy on the CPU or people wanted to see all the detail of the beautifully constructed cockpits then it could be a user setting...?

Just an idea...

DBM

DarkBlueMan
05-12-2005, 01:11 PM
Now this could be an idea for a future FB+PF patch or something for consideration in BoB...

As it stands, when in cockpit-view there is no visible pilot. The stick, rudder pedals, throttle etc, all move by invisible hands/feet. Wouldn't it be nice to have a low-poly pilot representation to show the aircraft being controled by something physical? The cockpit-view already places you in a position just in front of the virtual pilots face, so all that would be needed would be arms, hands, legs, feet (maybe chest) in low polys. I know LOMAC has this...
If the BoB engine (soon to be tested on FB+PF) will be using a little more CPU power for FM I'm sure a lo-res poly pilot (like the lo-res gunners and ground crew) wouldn't be too much of a drain on the CPU. If it was heavy on the CPU or people wanted to see all the detail of the beautifully constructed cockpits then it could be a user setting...?

Just an idea...

DBM

quiet_man
05-12-2005, 01:35 PM
@DarkBlueMan:
are the poligon the issue? The gunner models need no animation, but with all the moving stuff in cockpit a pilot would look stupid without animation and that might be a bit over the top

quiet_man

Philipscdrw
05-12-2005, 01:47 PM
I'm not sure this is a good idea. How will the arms, legs animate when you use the throttles, use the controls? The levers will be moving by themselves or the pilot model would be very elaborate and expensive to develop.

Finkeren
05-12-2005, 01:51 PM
I still hope for a high-poly graphical representation of the pilots body in BOB. This should of course be with full animation so you'd see the pilot operate all the instruments acordingly. Might be har to get it to work, but I'd think it worth the work.

DarkBlueMan
05-12-2005, 02:04 PM
I wasn't suggesting that the model be static but animated. I'm not a programmer (that may be obvious!), but I'm just thinking that it's a little odd we don't see some sort of pilot representation. If it's too much too ask of the developers to implement one in FB+PF (I'm sure it is because of all the different cockpits), maybe there's time for something in BoB. As I said before, as an option...

Jatro13th
05-12-2005, 02:25 PM
Hi Guys!
While we are talking about pilots and their movements, can I ask a simple question?
I am not using trackIR and the only moves I can make with the pilots head and my HAT are rotational. Apart from the Shift+F1 and the toggle seat position in some aircraft, there are no displacement movements of the piolots head whatsoever. Is that possible with the new TrackIR3? If it is possible to do this with the keyboard, would someone be kind enough to answer that?
Thanks!!!
Jatro out

Finkeren
05-12-2005, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jatro13th:
Hi Guys!
While we are talking about pilots and their movements, can I ask a simple question?
I am not using trackIR and the only moves I can make with the pilots head and my HAT are rotational. Apart from the Shift+F1 and the toggle seat position in some aircraft, there are no displacement movements of the piolots head whatsoever. Is that possible with the new TrackIR3? If it is possible to do this with the keyboard, would someone be kind enough to answer that?
Thanks!!!
Jatro out </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately the answer is no. The pilots head is absolutely fixed in this game.
In BOB however it will most likely be a total different story.

SeaFireLIV
05-12-2005, 03:23 PM
This is about each person`s point-of-view. There are 2 quite strong views on this:

View 1: No actual representation of the player since the player is already utilising most of the peripherals that closely match the reality the sim represents.

View 2: To totally represent everything of the player except the head which isn`t included only because it would block the player view.


I prefer View 1:
What I mean is, the way I see it, I CAN see my hands - they`re just in front of my moniter controlling the REAL joystick. I don`t feel I need representative polygon hands. I would even go so far as to say that there should be an option to REMOVE the virtual joystick in the sim cockpit because it gets in the way of the cockpit dials!

The rearview pilot head in the mirror (top of the head) is ok.

TooCool_12f
05-12-2005, 04:56 PM
it's been responded by oleg a few years ago:

they decided not to model it because it would require different 3D models (skins) depending on the plane you flew.. too much work and resources for little gain (basically, you're too busy looking outside anyway)

it's one of the compromises made to keep the game playable on average machines, and save some worktime for more important stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fennec_P
05-12-2005, 06:53 PM
One other reason was blockage of instruments. Your limbs in default position would cover up a lot of switches or gauges.

As for animations, you would need a seperate animation sequence for every single command or control, from gear level, to flaps, to trim, to everything. And you would need a full set of these sequences made custom for every single plane, because each plane has the switches and levers in different positions. That would be hundreds or thousands of animations in total. And they would not be simple animations like a switch rotation, but bones based limb movement, maybe even fingers.

I don't think any game has ever had an animated pilot. The most I have ever seen is a static pair of alpha cut legs, like in Falcon. All they do is block view of the rudder pedals.

Buzzsaw-
05-12-2005, 07:19 PM
Salute

Unless a player can have control of his legs and body, and is able to move them to look at instruments, it is not a good idea to put a body in the pilots cockpit view. I think this is too much of a waste of Oleg's time to be worthwhile now.

Bearcat99
05-12-2005, 08:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

Unless a player can have control of his legs and body, and is able to move them to look at instruments, it is not a good idea to put a body in the pilots cockpit view. I think this is too much of a waste of Oleg's time to be worthwhile now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree.... I prefer seeing the beautifully rendered cockpits than some hands & legs.

Blackjack174
05-13-2005, 01:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fennec_P:
I don't think any game has ever had an animated pilot. The most I have ever seen is a static pair of alpha cut legs, like in Falcon. All they do is block view of the rudder pedals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
With one exception that springs into my mind:
http://www.applelinks.com/reviews/gifs/enemyengaged2.jpg
Arms where animated , but flipping switches wasnt (copilot in the russian choppers was funny to watch), but then again EECH has not so many switches modelled at all, and it had no separate animations for all pressed buttons, just count the keyboard command in the game, totally sensless to model a pilot that way.
The idea of removed stick fits, like in racing games where you can shut off the wheel for immersion when racing with one.
Other than that , dont look to low into your cockpit while flying , and you never notice you´r not there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Mysticpuma2003
05-13-2005, 01:43 AM
Maybe DarkBlueMan was thinking about the LOMAC type of pilot. At least it's a physical representation of a pilots eye view? In a game that is!

I like the idea, cheers m8.

Antonio_MRZ
05-13-2005, 01:52 AM
I believe Oleg has answered to this in the recent past.

They're not going to model the pilot in cockpit view, to make it good it would require a lot of effort, he decided to leave it to shooters simulations and concentrate in other things more important for a flight sim.

This sounds a good reasoning to me...

Antonio

starfighter1
05-15-2005, 10:42 AM
hi,
first of all he answered 'wrong' or let me say as he feels there should be no more work in this field in the future.
conclusion: a better or more correct pilots view wwith more features and a correct view at pilot's eyes in height and forward view need a lot of redesign of many cockpits in this pc-sim.
OK may be some third party designers get a chance in the future (look this Dora twin engine bear)but the main camera view in game is 'wrong' (deep pilots view/gnomish view) or as an 12 years kid view sitting on pilots's seat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Antonio_MRZ:
I believe Oleg has answered to this in the recent past.

They're not going to model the pilot in cockpit view, to make it good it would require a lot of effort, he decided to leave it to shooters simulations and concentrate in other things more important for a flight sim.

This sounds a good reasoning to me...

Antonio </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SpartanHoplite
05-15-2005, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

Unless a player can have control of his legs and body, and is able to move them to look at instruments, it is not a good idea to put a body in the pilots cockpit view. I think this is too much of a waste of Oleg's time to be worthwhile now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto.

SH

Covino
05-15-2005, 04:28 PM
This would be nearly impossible, very hard to implement, hurt/slow down the already tedious development of new planes (new animations for almost every plane), and it's pretty much useless. Most people spend 90% of their time looking straight ahead or up and around. the only time people should really be looking down is to read their instruments so they almost would never even see the animations (I mean, do you look down at the buttons and levers when you raise throttle or raise gear?). I could also see many bugs with that system, what if you're adjusting throttle, lowering gear, playing with pitch or trim all at the same time, what would the arms and hands be doing?

LEXX_Luthor
05-15-2005, 04:46 PM
You can raise Pilot Fist - just like in the DOOM-3 - and shake it at teh Nazzi plane.

Yes, leave Pilot Animations for the game Developers that need Pilot Animations (and Pilot Videos) to make up for lack of air warfare simulation content.