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TonyPiech
10-10-2004, 01:39 PM
I'm trying improve my landings in preparation for PF. I can land (sort-of, but a little sloppy) but I would like to land smoother so I can tackle those aircraft landings. What I'd like to know, is there an optimal landing speed or power setting for landing with "landing flaps down" ? Or is each plane somewhat different? If each plane is different is there a speed or power setting range.

Also one other question, what does locking the tail-wheel do? I've never flow with it locked while landing or taking off, is there a time and/or place to lock your tail-wheel?

Fliger747
10-10-2004, 01:52 PM
Each plane has an optimal approach speed depending on it's weight. For most fighters of the era a pattern speed of about 100-110 knots works pretty well. On short final for the light wing loaded planes, perhaps 70-75 knots is a good 'over the fence' speed. For the F4U, 85 knots works well, as below 82 knots a power application will roll you over!

These 'suggested' speeds are based on little remaining fuel and ammo. If still heavy with fuel and ordinance, perhaps add 10 knots or so.

A month or two ago I posted a bunch of speeds somewhere here.

The most important thing, learn to land in the SAME SPOT EVERYTIME!

Good luck!

heywooood
10-10-2004, 02:13 PM
Tony - a locking tailwheel is used on larger planes - bombers and whatnot that are harder to steer at lower speeds during the takeoff roll.

Small fighters don't require that kind of assistance to stay pointed straight down the runway. You just lift the tail as soon as you can so that you have good, positive rudder authority.

For landing approaches you need to scrub airspeed as you descend...reduce power and prop RPM's/pitch..drop flaps to manoevering setting...turn once or twice also to help scrub airspeed as you line up...I always fly across the base at right angle 90% to the strip at 200' alt. (not meters) then turn left 90% and fly about 1-2 miles from the end of the runway..drop flaps to 'take-off' and turn 180 on final - line up with the runway and descend drop flaps to 'landing' or full down, drop the gear at this time... and then just apply or reduce power as needed until touchdown...you never lock the tailwheel on landing and you don't need to lock it in fighters at all.

Airspeed when you cross your base should be at or near 200kts indicated (on the dial - not the speedbar) your speed at the turn on final (the 180 deg. turn) should bring you to 160-180kts indicated...and as you approach the end of the runway you want to feel your speed at just above a stall 100-120kts indicated in most fighters. Good luck

TonyPiech
10-10-2004, 03:03 PM
Thanks guys, I'll take those tips and practice accordingly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

heywooood
10-10-2004, 03:12 PM
This sim is alot of fun in that you can fly so many different planes - so there are many variables...the instructions I listed are generic but should work well in most cases.

You might need more speed than I indicated in a heavy fighter and less in the very light planes and Bi-planes, Be sure.. but in general it should be helpful.

PriK
10-10-2004, 04:12 PM
Wouldn't you want higher pitch and lower throttle for braking? I assumed the "higher" pitch puts a flatter blade against the direction of airflow and keeping the rpm's at their optimum rpm band gives you better control authority where lower pitch (more angle) simply gives you lower rpms at pretty much the same speed because it cups more air.

I could be wrong but that's the way I understood it.

btw, to clarify when I say "higher" pitch I'm correlating that to the higher percentage value shown in FB. I think it used to be backwards a few patches ago.

noshens
10-10-2004, 04:23 PM
One thing that improved my chance of survival on landing was using flaps a bit different. I use flaps set to 'Landing' to slow the plane and bring them back again when speed decreases and land with flaps fully up or at 'combat'. This way plane doesn't stall when you are about to land and going really slow. Works for me wiht most of the planes in il2, don't know and don't really care if this is historicly correct or whatever.

Lateralus_14
10-10-2004, 06:41 PM
Here's a mission made to simulate landing on the Lexington. I've used it quite a bit and have gotten to the point where I can hit the wire consistently. It isn't perfect, but its good enough to practice approaches with the correct speed, attitude, altitude, and engine settings.

http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_singlemissions.htm

It's the third mission from the bottom, entitled 'Trap Practice'. I don't think this website like hotlinking, so I won't do that.

direct linking is ok: 'Trap Practice' (http://www.downloadcounter.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?username=James_Jones&account=931)

Thanks a lot to Dubbo for designing the mission.

Fliger747
10-10-2004, 07:21 PM
The prop is advanced to fine pitch (high RPM) on approach. This gives the most thrust available in case of a waveoff. Otherwise a bit like trying to accelerate away from a light in hight gear. BSS Vidar's Black Sheep Squad website, and VF15's (both for CFS2) have some good suggestions on carrier ops.

Don't have any idea about the previous 'flap technique'. If this works there is some strange flying going on or a problem in the realism of the flight model. Full landing flaps will reduce your stall speed, a lot! They also increase drag, which increases power and your speed control. At very slow speeds however directional control can become a problem, know that speed. For the F4U 82 kts is a number to remember as a minimum.

Go out and do a lot of airwork, stalls and recoveries, dirty and clean, fly ONE airplane till you know it well!

Tail wheel locks are found on most high powered fighters, and are a necessity. F4U-4, Hellcat, P51, Spitfire and a few others are examples. Used for takeoff and landing (except arrested landing) and disengaged so tailwheel will steer or caster as necessary for taxing. Whether you will need it in the GAME will depend on how realistic it is.

Lateralus_14
10-10-2004, 07:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lateralus_14:
Here's a mission made to simulate landing on the Lexington. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On a somewhat related note, the edge of the deck is quite hard to stay on. Think I got close enough? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/ISBop/fbpic1.JPG

actionhank1786
10-10-2004, 08:15 PM
On a somewhat related note, the edge of the deck is quite hard to stay on. Think I got close enough? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Haha well i guess one of us wont need the arrestor hook at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TC_Stele
10-13-2004, 01:09 AM
I tried this out with the brewster but I kept slamming on to the deck too hard and shattering my gear off. It's fun practice for the time being but for some fun add some AA on the deck and dive bomb the mock carrier.

Jason Bourne
10-13-2004, 10:44 PM
one thing i have found is to aproach with full flaps, and then when you want to drop the trail and engage the hook, retract flaps, the plane will try and sink, and with practice you can use this to make some good landings.

Fliger747
10-13-2004, 11:24 PM
OK guys! Listen up! As a professional (REAL) pilot having landed everything from Supercubs on Mt mcKinley to 747-400's in 50 knot X winds, I might know a bit about landing planes (if not much else).

To land on the boat you will have to learn precise airspeed control (within 3-4 knots anyway) precise glideslope control and be able to land at the right spot (give or take 50 ft) at the right speed every time. Start with a stabilized approach to reduce variables. learn to judge the landing spit, adjust power to keep the speed, pitch for the angle. (backwards from what most flight schools teach). Learn to co-ordinate your rudder! Keep the speed, 87 knots for a F4U, say 75 knots for a F6F all of the way to the cut. At the cut, the nose will drop because of the reduced airflow over the elevator. Suck the stick back and the plane will squat and catch the wire.

Later you will have to learn a circular approach, but start out with this!

VF-3Thunderboy
10-13-2004, 11:33 PM
Ok- Thunderboy will tell you how to do this so your not CONFUSED-

Landing speeds are going to be much lower, thats what alot of problems come from, too high.

The plane lands itself - If you can fly around with the plane level at 75 KTS with flaps and gear down for 10 minutes, youll get the hang of it.Then approach the field at thsi speed and reduce power and touchdown nice and soft...(fart)

for Hellcat/Wildcat whould be around 65 KTS. Corsair around 85KTS. Zero around 55-60 KTS.

Your gonna havea lot of problems landing on a carrier thats bobblin up and down if your comming in at 100 kts.

That will be $5.00 dollars for saving you a million hours of frustration. US $ please http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

AHC-KiloAlpha4
10-13-2004, 11:58 PM
I just glide in for ease which does take some practice. Usually i use min power needed to sustain a slow decent then time my approach so I glide in to a nice landing. Carrier landings are a bit trickier as I first experienced them in eurofighter 2000 but the style is the same. Min speed glide in, hook the cable and your good (modern fighter sims). If you come in too slow or too fast you'll hit the front hull or over shoot the deck not to mention if your too steep of a approach you'll bounce when the wheels contact the deck of the runway or carrier. You want to land at the front of the deck say 10 feet after the deck begins ideally so you have time to brake. I wouldn't land more than 1/3 of the deck length depending on your landing speed. If you played Battlefield 1942 then you'll have a hang of ww2 carrier deck landings.Essentually it's all a matter of practice. The more you practice the easier it is. Carrier landings etc require more of a "feel" rather than a specific airplane speed. Once you have gotten the feel for it it won't really matter what plane you are landing with. Hope this helps.

DD_NL
10-14-2004, 02:14 AM
From the PF README:

How to land on an aircraft carrier

First and foremost, come in from the stern (i.e. from behind).
In order to make it easier to learn, we€ve included a non-historical helper feature that may be useful for people who otherwise find it difficult to land on the carrier.
If you turn off the 3D cockpit (Shift-F1 by default, with €œNo Cockpit€ set to On in the Difficulty section), you will see an extra reticle floating around the virtual cockpit. When landing, try to keep decreasing your airspeed, and keep the reticle on the centerline of the carrier deck, at about 1/5th of the total length away from the stern. In other words, this reticle shows you the direction of your speed vector, and the landing angle should be about twice as shallow as when landing on a land strip.
Also, remember that a three-point landing is a requirement, not an option when it comes to aircraft carriers. First of all, it€s virtually unavoidable when you land at an appropriately low airspeed. Secondly, most arrestor hooks are simply not long enough to snag a wire if you land with your tailwheel high above the deck. Finally, a two-point landing is likely to cause a rather strong bounce, that can be especially disastrous if you did snag a wire. As your landing airspeed increases, so do the chances of catastrophic failure.
We very highly recommend practicing this a lot before going into combat, especially online. There you will encounter carriers moving at greatly varying speeds in greatly varying weather conditions. Start with a fast-moving carrier in clear weather first, as this allows you higher approach speeds and a stationary carrier deck.

Jason Bourne
10-14-2004, 08:32 AM
generally when i land on airfields, i do it very oddly, basically i get about a k from the airfield, pretty high up, go to 0 power, drop gear, drop flaps, then start slow circling untill i can line it up at about 30m off the ground, then i apply power and go land. odd, but it works. i have also landed from 500m, only around 400m away from airfield, you would be amazed how fast you can pull up with landing flaps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BSS_Vidar
10-14-2004, 04:34 PM
Guys,
I highly suggest you take what 747 has written to heart.

S! 747.. When ya goin' to be a Blacksheep? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fliger747
10-14-2004, 06:12 PM
BSS Vidar!

Whatever comments they were supposd to take to heart were deleted! This is a commercial site and they can do whatever they want.

Waiting for something past 26.6 kbs connection to visit my remote area! Think you guys have a great group! Any plans to update your site when the new game comes out?

e5kimo
10-14-2004, 06:20 PM
i am such an appauling pilot. my landings are the worst. i guess once i take delivery i will have to go into seclusion and practise carrier landings for at least two months http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Fliger747
10-14-2004, 06:25 PM
That's exactly the right thing to do, and a very professional attitude!

e5kimo
10-14-2004, 06:34 PM
someone posted a link to a fantastic pilot account a few days ago.... http://ussessex.bravepages.com/npstark.html
thats the one ..
i like to immerse myself and think of it as going to flight school. then take the plane and transfer to the pacific http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

at the moment i ll see the spit as my trainer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BSS_Vidar
10-14-2004, 07:19 PM
747,
I didn't see your deleted comment. I was talking about your landing profile numbers.

S!

Fliger747
10-14-2004, 07:28 PM
My screenie whic was from FS9 was apparently confused with a take from a pirated PF copy. included was a short dissertation on what happens between taking the cut and catching the wire. Photo was A Corsair AU-1 at the moment of catching the wire with the mains still about 4" in the air and tail wheel about 1', IAS 61 Knots. Catching the wire and quitting flying at the same time.

I understand the concerns about pirated and leaked copies. My comments only concern FLYING, which is what I do. I have no idea about how this will work in the game when it is released.