PDA

View Full Version : CoD, will it be a 'finished' game?



Falcke
01-19-2011, 12:23 PM
Just wondering if I'm alone in this, but it feels ALOT like this is a very premature release. It just doesn't look to me like the game is finished yet.

We moved from getting screenshots that still basically looked like a heavy WIP, to a fixed release date within a few weeks.

Even the trailer reeks of a rush job. The drawings and text screens look pretty well done, but the actual ingame parts? Footage without anti aliasing or AF, some skins that look like placeholders, tracer/smoke/fire effects that look worse then Il2 stock (let alone modded versions. Even the terrain colouring still looks a bit weird. Along with the recycling of the footage from Igromir into the trailer, from a time they still claimed the game to be 'heavily WiP'.



I'm not saying it looks terrible, it just doesn't look very 'done' imo...

Falcke
01-19-2011, 12:23 PM
Just wondering if I'm alone in this, but it feels ALOT like this is a very premature release. It just doesn't look to me like the game is finished yet.

We moved from getting screenshots that still basically looked like a heavy WIP, to a fixed release date within a few weeks.

Even the trailer reeks of a rush job. The drawings and text screens look pretty well done, but the actual ingame parts? Footage without anti aliasing or AF, some skins that look like placeholders, tracer/smoke/fire effects that look worse then Il2 stock (let alone modded versions. Even the terrain colouring still looks a bit weird. Along with the recycling of the footage from Igromir into the trailer, from a time they still claimed the game to be 'heavily WiP'.



I'm not saying it looks terrible, it just doesn't look very 'done' imo...

RSS-Martin
01-19-2011, 12:32 PM
Do you have a glass ball that you know that?
These whine threads just make you want to grab a paper bag....is it so hard to wait until the game is out and hard facts are on the table? The people who could answer those questions are certainly not going to do so before the game is released. So you can speculate as much as you want, or ask a glass ball, both would give you simular answers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/df6tvdqg_8hrv62rfs_b.gif

Ba5tard5word
01-19-2011, 12:33 PM
I'll be very surprised and impressed if it doesn't have a lot of bugs and issues that need patching, simply because it's the trend now for games to be released in that state and then it's up to the company to patch the game. And sims are really complicated games, and the bugs (still not fixed yet) in 4.10 illustrate that.

But since it's an Oleg game I hope it's totally shipshape and the only patches we need are mainly for new maps and planes and minor issues that aren't gamebreaking.

Romanator21
01-19-2011, 12:38 PM
Oleg said that he didn't have a strict "deadline" for the month or so before the release date was announced and was hoping to release a complete game. I imagine he's learned his lesson from releasing PF too early.

As for the trailer quality, blame the marketing department http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Falcke
01-19-2011, 12:40 PM
Oh my god speculation, yeah that's a terrible thing and I'm so very sorry if I offended you.

Deal with it.

saipan1972
01-19-2011, 01:01 PM
from various boards and threads it seems the video was from beta and on a sub par computer. what sub par means is anyones guess. what new game doesnt have bugs? i am sure the mod community will have lots of stuff to add on as 3rd party additions are supported.

kimosabi79
01-19-2011, 01:22 PM
I don't think it will be finished. The first two months of playing will be walking around on the aerodrome, waiting for our aeroplanes to arrive.

x6BL_Brando
01-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Surely some of the people in this thread have done the full round, from the introduction of the first (IL-2 Sturmovik)stage right up until now? Those of you who have will know that the game is flyable from the first instant yet never completed in development terms. There are always areas that need tweaking and always will be; and if the past record is observed, these areas will gradually be firmed up. What Oleg observed, I think, was the need for a revised game engine to further improve the dream of increased realism in the genre. Better cockpits, better ground objects, better 'weather', more aircraft in the air and all the 101 things that people had asked for since IL-2 first launched. In doing so it became necessary to leave Forgotten Battles development behind. I hope that the gamble will pay off, it certainly deserves to.

B

Urufu_Shinjiro
01-19-2011, 02:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falcke:
Just wondering if I'm alone in this, but it feels ALOT like this is a very premature release. It just doesn't look to me like the game is finished yet.

We moved from getting screenshots that still basically looked like a heavy WIP, to a fixed release date within a few weeks.

Even the trailer reeks of a rush job. The drawings and text screens look pretty well done, but the actual ingame parts? Footage without anti aliasing or AF, some skins that look like placeholders, tracer/smoke/fire effects that look worse then Il2 stock (let alone modded versions. Even the terrain colouring still looks a bit weird. Along with the recycling of the footage from Igromir into the trailer, from a time they still claimed the game to be 'heavily WiP'.



I'm not saying it looks terrible, it just doesn't look very 'done' imo... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's all because what you have seen ISN'T done. Now I do agree that it's kinda lame that Ubi didn't make personnel and equipment available to Oleg to make a proper trailer on a proper PC with a CURRENT build, but they didn't and Oleg is trying to put the final coat on this puppy before release and does not have time to tie up one of the programmers high end PC's and whatever team member(s) would be needed to make the trailer internally. The fact that the dev had to make a trailer in their spare time on crappy personal PC's while trying to finish the game is pretty crappy. I thought marketing was the Publishers responsibility, but I digress. The point is, no one but Oleg and his team have seen a current build, let alone a current build on a high end PC. Luthier stated just a couple of weeks ago that they had completed a round of major optimizations that improved the frame rate drastically, so if this trailer is from a low end PC and months old build, we cannot draw any conclusions except perhaps that it will certainly look better than that. I'm guessing that Luthiers "crappy" PC, as he puts it, is running Windows XP, which means that trailer is DX9, in the Friday Update threads we have seen a few shots labeled DX10, but I don't think any of us have seen any DX11 shots, let alone any DX version shots of the current build.

DKoor
01-19-2011, 02:04 PM
Anti-Release whiners!11!!!

WTE_Ibis
01-19-2011, 02:38 PM
Oleg is deliberatly releasing things to whine about in the hope that the whiners will be too exhausted to continue once the sim is released.
I'm not sure that will work as the whiners are a hardy lot.



.

Falcke
01-19-2011, 03:23 PM
My god I am just asking around if anyone feels the same, what's with all the crying here seriously.

Thanks for the constructive post though shinjiro, makes sense. Though its painful especially for this game that they can't take their time to do things right.

waffen-79
01-19-2011, 04:08 PM
I just need to ask you guys this

Are the Things promissed (and delivered) by Team Daidalos (thnks guys, really) be present in CoD?

I mean I would hate if it doesn't out of the box do:

RRR
MDS
G-Force structure fatigue
Realistic Navigation

Chivas
01-19-2011, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falcke:
Just wondering if I'm alone in this, but it feels ALOT like this is a very premature release. It just doesn't look to me like the game is finished yet.

We moved from getting screenshots that still basically looked like a heavy WIP, to a fixed release date within a few weeks.

Even the trailer reeks of a rush job. The drawings and text screens look pretty well done, but the actual ingame parts? Footage without anti aliasing or AF, some skins that look like placeholders, tracer/smoke/fire effects that look worse then Il2 stock (let alone modded versions. Even the terrain colouring still looks a bit weird. Along with the recycling of the footage from Igromir into the trailer, from a time they still claimed the game to be 'heavily WiP'.



I'm not saying it looks terrible, it just doesn't look very 'done' imo... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are in the process of finishing and optimizing the final build which they will have to present to Ubisoft by the end of February if its to be pressed and shipped by the end of March. This should give a few on the team a month of spare time to make a few decent videos for marketing.

Treetop64
01-19-2011, 04:19 PM
Dude, the game's been in development for, what, three or four years now...? I seriously doubt that Oleg's gonna toss out the post-alpha, pre-beta product that you fear. It's not his way of going things.

Having said that, there is no such thing as a finished product as far as game development is concerned. Unintended or otherwise, there are always bugs and other issues to contend with. There are always unfinished aspects, unexpected results, and undesirable technical issues, big and small. Especially on an initial release.

No amount of testing on a project this complex will catch everything. No game ever comes out completely finished and bug free.

Deal with it.

Chivas
01-19-2011, 04:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:
I just need to ask you guys this

Are the Things promissed (and delivered) by Team Daidalos (thnks guys, really) be present in CoD?

I mean I would hate if it doesn't out of the box do:

RRR
MDS
G-Force structure fatigue
Realistic Navigation </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't see why it won't unless other priorties superseeded these features. That said the new game engine will be far more capable than the old engine in every way, so we should see even more features than Team Daidalos could ever hope to achieve.

Chivas
01-19-2011, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
Dude, the game's been in development for, what, three or four years now...? I seriously doubt that Oleg's gonna toss out the post-alpha, pre-beta product that you fear. It's not his way of going things.

Having said that, there is no such thing as a finished product as far as game development is concerned. Unintended or otherwise, there are always bugs and other issues to contend with. There are always unfinished aspects, unexpected results, and undesirable technical issues, big and small. Especially on an initial release.

No amount of testing on a project this complex will catch everything. No game ever comes out completely finished and bug free.

Deal with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree....and the game isn't planned for completion until all the theaters are done in the next 10 years or so, even then the game engine is capable of making a combined forces sim where you will be able to control tanks, ships, etc. This game could have a very long life and entail alot more content than even the original IL-2 series. Any added features placed in future theaters will also work with COD. Its all good.

danjama
01-19-2011, 04:37 PM
Gran Turismo 5 was in development for 5 years. I fear that this so-called "COD" will be as much of a mess, as that was on release. And that was a console game - this, being a PC game, could be much worse.

Long development time does not equal a good game. Myself and millions of others have just found that out the hard way, and for Christmas.

In their defence, they are working to fix some issues in GT5. I suspect Oleg and Co. will be just as supportive this time around, as they were with il2.

Chivas
01-19-2011, 04:46 PM
Maddox games doesn't have a history of releasing unfinished games. There may be features that are missing in the initial release like Weather systems, but certainly doesn't class the game as unfinished. Especially when the new IL-2 series will be work in progress for the next 10 to 15 years. Sounds weird but most of you will understand what I mean.

F-six
01-19-2011, 05:38 PM
Noooooo.

knightflyte
01-19-2011, 09:17 PM
Looking at the game as it developed I've seen some great visual innovations. Remember the Stuka video displaying the light reflection? How about the cockpits? Remember how the terrain went from volcano/south pacific to something much more realistic? I'm sure others can think of developments that through the course of time caught their eye.

Oleg wouldn't show these if they weren't going to be released in the game at some point. Think of where we were a year ago, and where we are now.

I firmly believe we will have a playable game that will exceed our REALISTIC expectations. In the following months additions to what Oleg and crew wanted to have in the original release will be implemented. No worries on my part.



Then of course the first bug just might be the menu screen that allows us to pick a mission/plane/campaign. That would muck up a lot of simmers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

VW-IceFire
01-19-2011, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falcke:
Oh my god speculation, yeah that's a terrible thing and I'm so very sorry if I offended you.

Deal with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey if you're going to speculate then be prepared for the firestorm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The one mistake in logic I see is that we haven't gone from WIP screen shots to release in a few weeks. We've seen WIP screen shots for months now and Oleg's been pretty specific about telling us that we were not seeing the full specs as most of the shots were taken on a lower spec PC. He's repeated over and over again about what he was showing and what he wasn't... but nobody listens http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My speculation... that aside from a few instances we haven't really seen the good stuff yet (but we should and probably will closer to the release date) but that as usual this won't ever be "finished". The groundworked has been laid so that new features can be turned on when they are ready/our systems can handle it just like IL-2.

gothkrieger
01-20-2011, 01:23 AM
For me, I think I will wait a little before I go out and buy my copy. Let them work out some of the bugs first. Its part of the reason I didn't get IL2 way back in the day, heard that there was all kinds of problems,.......then I just never got around to it until now. Oh well, will try and not take that long this time.

Mysticpuma2003
01-20-2011, 01:28 AM
Okay, I don't think I've commented yet on the video I saw, but there is no-way this is the finished version as the video has some glaring errors!

Firstly where are the P-47's, P-51's, B-24's and B-17's?

5-years and none of the above.....anyone would think it was Britain that won the war!!!!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RSS-Martin
01-20-2011, 01:54 AM
You forgot to mention if the flight model of cow pies is right or not.....that is a serious matter!

Falcke
01-20-2011, 02:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falcke:
Oh my god speculation, yeah that's a terrible thing and I'm so very sorry if I offended you.

Deal with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey if you're going to speculate then be prepared for the firestorm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The one mistake in logic I see is that we haven't gone from WIP screen shots to release in a few weeks. We've seen WIP screen shots for months now and Oleg's been pretty specific about telling us that we were not seeing the full specs as most of the shots were taken on a lower spec PC. He's repeated over and over again about what he was showing and what he wasn't... but nobody listens http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My speculation... that aside from a few instances we haven't really seen the good stuff yet (but we should and probably will closer to the release date) but that as usual this won't ever be "finished". The groundworked has been laid so that new features can be turned on when they are ready/our systems can handle it just like IL-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're probably right. I'm fully aware of the game not being finished in the sense of being everything its supposed to be in about 10 years with several theaters included and what not, but the functionalities that are included will be properly polished.

I've been as excited about SoW/CoD release as the next guy, but I also have become extremely apprehensive about paying full price for a new game nowadays. And I know I'm not the only one in this. I really want to see this game succeed, and making a trailer that looks top notch in every aspect is so incredibly important to create a great first impression.

Anything short of that just feels like a huge missed opportunity imo.

Basically you get stuff like this

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The terrain and ground textures look like crap. WoP, a console port, looks way better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Me 109 looks from outside like a plastic toy a little bit ;/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

M_Gunz
01-20-2011, 03:16 AM
If it was going to be released in poor condition then we would have had it 3 years ago.

Mercanario
01-20-2011, 04:33 AM
Hmmm...
speculations fun
for some
lets wait and see shall we
2 months
be sure

Monty_Thrud
01-20-2011, 06:20 AM
And what about the birds?...Seagulls, Blue T!ts, Robin Red T!ts, Sea Swallows(i bet sea does), etc...theres going to be birds ...right?

Flight data...does the Blue T!t out turn the Red T!t...dont frickin think so...climb rate?...graphs, graphs, graphs.

And NO!, Oleg...if there are no Pigeons, then its not a complete flight sim.

DELAY RELEASE!!!

RSS-Martin
01-20-2011, 06:29 AM
Yes what about this secret weapon?
http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/_db/_images/Birdstrike.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Jaws2002
01-20-2011, 10:55 AM
CoD will definitely be more "finished" than ROF when it came out.
ROF came with:
-only two planes
-no online dogfight mode
-no offline campaign worth mentioning
-no quick mission builder
-no ability to install user made skins
-tons of bugs
-tons of crashes
But now it grew into a good game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm sure CoD will be way, way better in this respect. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

knightflyte
01-25-2011, 05:00 AM
A thought... maybe paranoid.... but a thought none the less.

Perhaps Oleg didn't want anyone else but in house people to make a movie for the CoD announcement.

How many times have we heard patches were "released" early in the IL2/FB development cycle. Anyone remember just a few months ago that Oleg mentioned someone tried to access CoD from his home?

With the size of the crew working on CoD being as small as it is, and man power can't be sacrificed, a low resolution/featured preview was made.


with so much riding on not just CoD but any future development of Oleg's engine, is it any wonder that he may just be overly cautious?

Any way. Just a thought.

RSS-Martin
01-25-2011, 05:26 AM
CoD will be like the original "Forgotten Battles" to which further add ons could be merged. So I view CoD as the first building block of many to come. So it can not be finished like IL2 1946.

thefruitbat
01-25-2011, 06:10 AM
it will be more finished than RoF is now, considering it will have a proper campaign shipped with it, something that RoF still doesn't have (until the next patch).

Xiolablu3
01-25-2011, 06:32 AM
Of course its not finished, the whole series will be tweaked and refined, and added to by the team for the foreseeable future.

They plan to add theatres like the Med, Russian front etc as updates. In a sim, its never really 'finished' as there is always something that can be improved.

You have to bite the bullet and release it at some point or else it would stay in development for ever.

However I have no doubt that it will be a entertaining, interesting and incredible game, even in its first incarnation, dont worry about that.

Can you ever say that a sim is 'finished' until it looks and feels exactly like real life? IL2 is still not 'finished', yet it has been fantastic game for 10 years. Its very different now to when it was first released.

DKoor
01-25-2011, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Of course its not finished, the whole series will be tweaked and refined, and added to by the team for the foreseeable future.

They plan to add theatres like the Med, Russian front etc as updates. In a sim, its never really 'finished' as there is always something that can be improved.

You have to bite the bullet and release it at some point or else it would stay in development for ever.

However I have no doubt that it will be a entertaining, interesting and incredible game, even in its first incarnation, dont worry about that.

Can you ever say that a sim is 'finished' until it looks and feels exactly like real life? IL2 is still not 'finished', yet it has been fantastic game for 10 years. Its very different now to when it was first released. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>+1

Mercanario
01-25-2011, 11:16 PM
I think most of us will just be happy finally to get our hands on the thing.

Chivas
01-26-2011, 01:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gothkrieger:
For me, I think I will wait a little before I go out and buy my copy. Let them work out some of the bugs first. Its part of the reason I didn't get IL2 way back in the day, heard that there was all kinds of problems,.......then I just never got around to it until now. Oh well, will try and not take that long this time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, did you hear wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I happened to be on the beta test team and was shocked at how few bugs there were in the original IL-2. Most of the patches added features and minor bug fixes.
There were never anything even close to show stopping bugs, if people had problems it was usually at there end, and not the gaming software.

Falcke
01-27-2011, 02:18 PM
Talking about betas, didn't Oleg mention several times that this would have a beta as well? Guess that got scratched somewhere along the line then.