PDA

View Full Version : Heavy bombers



Warbird-
11-01-2005, 11:32 PM
When, tomorrow or in then years, IL2 Sturmovik producers will concentrate their efforts on making available to players the four engine beasts that won the war? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Is an addon planned to be released in the future? Or has Maddox Games made it clear that toys like the B-29 are definitely out of their plans?

Warbird-
11-01-2005, 11:32 PM
When, tomorrow or in then years, IL2 Sturmovik producers will concentrate their efforts on making available to players the four engine beasts that won the war? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Is an addon planned to be released in the future? Or has Maddox Games made it clear that toys like the B-29 are definitely out of their plans?

Tater-SW-
11-01-2005, 11:39 PM
Some gunner stations are as hard to model as a fighter cockpit, so it's partially work vs planes you get out (many of us wish they did more bombers with just AI for gunners since the easier model job would have meant more bombers).

It's pretty much off the table, ain't gonna happen.

tater

mtnman4
11-02-2005, 07:46 AM
It's a cryin' shame we don't have the real workhorses of the war. I have read in these forums that for the modeling of 1 bomber, they can produce 3 flyable fighters. I have no doubt that is true but I think there are many of us "bomber jocks" who think we have too many fighters no one really flies anyway.

This is the best WWII sim by far but it has some giant holes that need to be plugged with certain aircraft. It has already been decided there is to be no flyable heavies introduced into this sim so we'll have to live with it. The best we can get is to fly them from the external view.

Look for a dogfight room up from the 411 Sharks. They have a European & a Pacific map where you can fly all the heavies & torpedo planes. ( here's a list)

Us- All B-17 variants, B-24, B-29, AvengerMkIII & the C-47 cargo.

IJN- B5N2 Kate & the other Betty if you want.

Germany- Fw-200 Condor & the Me-323 transport

USSR- Pe-8's & pe-2's

With some practice you can bomb quite accurately. Maybe someday we'll get them flyable from inside. Keep the faith!

Waldo.Pepper
11-02-2005, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some gunner stations are as hard to model as a fighter cockpit </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm no modeller thats for sure, and yes I still believe this to be true... but it is too often used as an excuse as to why it cannot be done. It sure doesn't seem to hold water when you look at the incredible detail (HA!) of the Betty gunner stations, which to my mind are models of spartan decor. So like I have said already I still believe this to be true, but not in all cases.

LEBillfish
11-02-2005, 09:10 AM
They/1c has very clearly often said "no". Personally I have to agree as the sim is not about heavies but "direct ground attack" planes that grew into fighters as well. To keep in theme I'd think you'd want:

Typhoon/Tempest
PE2/3
Mosquito
A26 (or is it B?)
Other B25 versions
Ki-45
Ki-51
and so on......

Naturally now there is also a need for the Torpedo planes...But theyre not 4 engined heavies.

Frankly it's fine by me heavies are not in the sim as "very few" (kudos to you that do)...fly them right taking the time to get to a high alt., lining up and hoping to get "near" the target.

The HE111 I have no problem when they dive low as that was how it was initially intended to be used. Yet frankly heavies take a lot of work, that few would use, more so fewer fly right.

Don't believe me?......We have the HE111, B25, Betty....How often online do you see the gunner positions filled, more so use of the bombsight when it would make sense?

Frankly most fly them like Stuka's.

Tater-SW-
11-02-2005, 09:12 AM
Agreed, waldo. Also it's silly to even model all the gunner stations. Do the pilot, bombadier, and if the bombadier gives you the nose gunner into the bargain, great.

tater

Buzzsaw-
11-02-2005, 09:56 AM
Salute

The greatest aerial battles of all time occurred in the during the Battle of Britain, and the Battle of Germany.

The number of aircraft involved in those encounters, particularly during the Battle for Germany, dwarfs whatever else occurred during the war.

It appears we will be getting the July to September 1940 event replicated for us by Oleg, but it would also be nice to see him do the late '43, early '44 battle.

Crucial to any Simulation which attempts to reproduce the enviroment of these events, is that we see MASSED bombers and fighter encounters.

Battles which only see 20 aircraft per side are not going to do justice to the real life happenings, which saw, in the case of 1944, saw typical encounters involving a bomber 'box' of approx. 60 aircraft, escorted by a Fighter Group of between 36 and 54 aircraft, being attacked by between 50 and 100 Fighters of various types.

Similar types of numbers were common during the Battle of Britain.

Let's hope Oleg does this type of combat justice.

Crash_Moses
11-02-2005, 11:02 AM
I, personally, would like to have seen some of the hard nosed variants of the B-25 (Naval designation PBJ)flown by the Marines in the Pacific Theatre.

Imagine strafing an air field with nine forward firing .50 cals going at once! Or the 75mm cannon...

Oh well...sigh

Tater-SW-
11-02-2005, 11:39 AM
We could have a strafer B-25J with no external model changes save MG barrels out the nose. Keep glass nose. Remove bombadier position (for player to enter) entirely (that is negative work!). Add 4x50 in the nose, and fix the existing flex 50 forward. Change the texture map so that skinners can paint the glass over. DONE. 9x50 forward.

The solid nosed J had12 forward, plus the top turret, so 14.

BTW, they could do the exact same thing with the 25C. Delete the bottom turret, add 4x50 cal out the nose, paint over the glass. DONE. B-25D strafer.

tater

EJGrOst_Caspar
11-02-2005, 12:26 PM
We have two solid nose B25s in game already (as AI) - no need for painting glass over (whis in fact isn't possible in this engine). Just delete the bombadier station and change the guns, thats it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Tater-SW-
11-02-2005, 12:53 PM
The 2 solid nosed B-25s were marginal, and poor. The G was OK, though the cannon was disliked, and the crews in the PTO got rid of Hs as fast as they could in favor of Js, even glass nosed Js field converted to strafers were better than the H, they were hated.

We have 2 solid B-25s that are the LEAST representative of starfers in the SWPA. The D and the solid or field-mod J were far far more common.

tater

HunglikePony
11-02-2005, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:

Frankly most fly them like Stuka's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



That true because bases too close to enemy base means no time for climb as mission time many times too short, must go in and bomb be quick before time to end mission comes. more air start for bomber at 3000m and more should be in hyplobby servers, not make 111 take off and clymb to 3000m wen base just over frontline??Stupid is this!
also, should be hard nose b-25 in game to fly, simple fix, easy to make so why not? must need more russian plane or american fighter i suppose? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Tater-SW-
11-02-2005, 02:50 PM
B-17s and B-24s were used for skip-bombing in the SWPA, BTW. Not just A-20s and B-25s.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/coastal_vessels_sm.jpg

tater

Crash_Moses
11-02-2005, 03:17 PM
Roger that! All true, gents...all true.

While I'm a bit partial to the PBJ and, although they were often field modified, most of the pictures I have of the PBJ-1Js are with the glass bombadier nose, so I'm pretty happy with the in-game Mitchell.

But those hard nosed versions looked so MEAN!!!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/eltoro-044b.jpg

p1ngu666
11-02-2005, 06:34 PM
they hadto get non american workers to assemble those b25 straffers. american workers dribbled too much when confronted with so many 50cals, the dribble ate into the aircraft like a slow natural acid.

id like a j field mod, and a J without guns, but 4000lbs (RAF spec http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

and i agree with billfish, few players have taken the time to learn the bombsite. ive taught ppl in less than 30mins perhaps. u could possibly teach someone in 5mins...

Pig_Mac
11-02-2005, 07:23 PM
If i could have an B24 flyable i'd promise i'd be a fun target for you all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif i usually fly around in the B25 but it feels like the bombload harldy is worth the long time or wide circling around on the small maps, to get up to a decent altitude. But levelbombing is a blast!

(and limping home with burning engines, and managing to land and get out before it all blows is even nicer)

I'd trade all the 'planes to come' for the B24, even the tempest. and by saying that i'd be an even more interesting target to shoot down when i get my bomber http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif