PDA

View Full Version : beaufighter rear cockpit?



rpe1971
11-24-2004, 09:32 AM
i was looking forward to flying the bristol beaufighter but were is the rear/observer cockpit? {press c} i now there is no gun on a mark 21 but why not see the cockpit. will it be in the "free patch"

LEBillfish
11-24-2004, 09:42 AM
It's my understanding there is no gun there....so what would you do except go along for the ride?

TacticalYak3
11-24-2004, 09:46 AM
Check your six maybe mate?

JaggedRaven
11-24-2004, 10:11 AM
I've read the Beau did have a single rear facing .30 cal fired by the observer...in the book I read the pilots refered to it as a "pop-pop" gun because it was so ineffective. Perhaps they removed it from later versions for this reason? I don't see it on this one, but maybe there will be a patch with an earlier model somewhere down the road. Doubtful though...pretty minor point.

TX-WarHawk
11-24-2004, 10:19 AM
Gun or no gun, I want to check my six with C.

Hendley
11-24-2004, 10:49 AM
Hmm. Anyone else think it's a shame that the rear gunner/observers in multi-crew aircraft don't yell warnings for you?

If your passenger has a gun and the bandit is coming in at the right angle his shooting gives you a hint, but otherwise... absolute silence.

Oh, except if he's Russian, and then it'll be endless complaints about your flying...

"Noooooo! What are you doing!!?"

"I'm *!"#$% jinking out of the way of that FW190 YOU didn't tell me about!"
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gato__Loco
11-24-2004, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hendley:
"Noooooo! What are you doing!!?"

"I'm *!"#$% jinking out of the way of that FW190 YOU didn't tell me about!"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I hate the guy! I always wished for an "ejection seat" button for the IL-2 back seat...

JaggedRaven
11-25-2004, 03:12 AM
Nah, he just wants to hog all the glory of the kill then complains when you evade and screw up his shot! Kinda makes you wish the IL2 was equipped with a rear ejection seat and the pilot had his finger on the trigger...

Jieitai_Tsunami
11-25-2004, 04:41 AM
I was surprised there was no rear cockpit too. Now there is almost 0 visibility at the beau 6:00 position. Gun or not where have two pilots in the giant beau if you only get one pilot position http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Destraex
11-25-2004, 04:48 AM
I am dissappointed that nobody speaks in a bomber that should be alive with excitement during combat or at least calling where the Brits are concerned.

I am also dissappointed there is no electric sound from the "silent" electric turrets!!! or in the hand cranked ones the quiet mechanical crank sound

WTE_Gog
11-26-2004, 01:06 PM
Dissapointed that no one speaks in the bombers?

Well if you are flying the Allied bombers with Commonwealth crews then the silence coud be attributed to them being more disciplined than US crews. You only have to watch Memphis Belle to see what a joke comms was in US heavies.

Some chatter would be good though but it should be a bare minimum lest it become distracting.

Mort-Fauchante
11-26-2004, 05:12 PM
Hi all,

don't have PF on my pc yet, but soon that shall change...

However, concerning the Beaufighter having an armed radio-operator's position, the following applies, as far as I know:

All variants available in the sim could have or not have a rear gun. For the Mk VI and Mk X, there were models having no gun (factory-wise), and others having one installed straight from the assembly-line; finally, some were field-modified with a single gun.

As for the Aussie Mk XXI (the ultimate Beau conc. speed and armament), there were NO factory-installed rear defences. Some WERE field-modified, however.

So all in all, demanding a rear gun for the Beau in the sim is justified. And even if you don't get one, having "your radio-operator" checking your 6 by toggling would be fair enough.

Might be mistaken, but that's what I know about this.

See & Kill you online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (or get killed , for that matter!)

LMF

huggy87
11-26-2004, 07:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Gog:
Dissapointed that no one speaks in the bombers?

Well if you are flying the Allied bombers with Commonwealth crews then the silence coud be attributed to them being more disciplined than US crews. You only have to watch Memphis Belle to see what a joke comms was in US heavies.

Some chatter would be good though but it should be a bare minimum lest it become distracting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh...you are basing your opinion on a HOLLYWOOD movie. Do you have any other evidence that the commonwealth had better comm discipline than the US?

BTW, I love your sig. Hmmm...luftwaffles.

Doctor_Feelgood
11-26-2004, 07:45 PM
since when are hollyweird movies wrong? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Daiichidoku
11-27-2004, 01:32 AM
Thread about Beau "derriere" already stated in ORR check the link, read it, bump it, and add any info you can to it...keep both threads bumping along until there is consideration for a viewable crew position, AI gunner, audible AI to call out rear attacks or at least a loadout option to delete the observer and his weight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=6781099832

JaggedRaven
11-27-2004, 02:30 AM
BUMP!

I'd like the rear gunner position for the Beau in the game.

WTE_Gog
11-28-2004, 03:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by huggy87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Gog:
Dissapointed that no one speaks in the bombers?

Well if you are flying the Allied bombers with Commonwealth crews then the silence coud be attributed to them being more disciplined than US crews. You only have to watch Memphis Belle to see what a joke comms was in US heavies.

Some chatter would be good though but it should be a bare minimum lest it become distracting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh...you are basing your opinion on a HOLLYWOOD movie. Do you have any other evidence that the commonwealth had better comm discipline than the US?

BTW, I love your sig. Hmmm...luftwaffles. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Hollywood movie 'Memphis Belle' is based on the wartime film of its last mission and the comms discipline in it is every bit like the Hollywood version.
As for Commonwealth crews being more disciplined, that's a given.

Mozzie_21
11-28-2004, 05:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mort-Fauchante:
....as far as I know:

.....As for the Aussie Mk XXI (the ultimate Beau conc. speed and armament), there were NO factory-installed rear defences. Some WERE field-modified, however....

.....Might be mistaken, but that's what I know about this.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can confirm that, there were field modifications to the Beaufighter 21s.

No601_prangster
11-28-2004, 06:17 AM
What happened about all those threads with impassioned plea's for flyable bombers? You know the one where everyone said they didn't need gunner positions as long as they could fly it. Now you've got a bomber model of a variant that didn't have a rear gun and everyone is jumping up and down demanding the field mod version with a usable rear gun.
Good thing Oleg never released a B17 with just a pilot and no gunner positions he would never have heard the last of it.

DuxCorvan
11-28-2004, 06:32 AM
Yep, I hate the rear guy who is always about to die of a heart attack.

"Aaaaaaaargggh! Nooo! Aaaaaaaaaarrgggh!" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

buz13
11-28-2004, 07:41 AM
At least some had a rear facing gun.
"<span class="ev_code_RED">Four 20-mm. Hispano cannon in the fuselage nose and six 0.303-in. machine-guns in the wings and [B]Four 20-mm. Hispano cannon in the fuselage nose and six 0.303-in. machine-guns in the wings and one 0.303-in. Vickers "K" or Browning gun in the dorsal position. One 18-in. torpedo externally under fuselage. Eight rocket projectiles could be carried as alternative to the wing guns." </span>

buz13
11-28-2004, 07:50 AM
This one sure looks like it has a dorsal gun.
http://onfinite.com/libraries/192542/c6a.jpg

Aaron_GT
11-28-2004, 08:09 AM
"The Hollywood movie 'Memphis Belle' is based on the wartime film of its last mission and the comms discipline in it is every bit like the Hollywood version.
As for Commonwealth crews being more disciplined, that's a given."

The comms in the original film (WW2 footage) is busy, but then some of that may also be due to editing to make it seem dramatic.

In any case for WW2 Commonwealth crews over Germany the exchange might have gone something like:
"Pilot to tail gunner. See anything, Ginger"
"No, it's dark"
"Pilot to mid upper gunner. See anything, Nobby?"
"No, it's dark"

Aaron_GT
11-28-2004, 08:12 AM
"This one sure looks like it has a dorsal gun."

Might not be a Mk. 21 though (doesn't look like it obviously has the Sperry bumps).

huggy87
11-28-2004, 09:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Gog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by huggy87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Gog:
Dissapointed that no one speaks in the bombers?

Well if you are flying the Allied bombers with Commonwealth crews then the silence coud be attributed to them being more disciplined than US crews. You only have to watch Memphis Belle to see what a joke comms was in US heavies.

Some chatter would be good though but it should be a bare minimum lest it become distracting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh...you are basing your opinion on a HOLLYWOOD movie. Do you have any other evidence that the commonwealth had better comm discipline than the US?

BTW, I love your sig. Hmmm...luftwaffles. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Hollywood movie 'Memphis Belle' is based on the wartime film of its last mission and the comms discipline in it is every bit like the Hollywood version.
As for Commonwealth crews being more disciplined, that's a given. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I haven't seen the original memphis belle. Still that is a pretty bold statement to make that the US lacked comm discipline. I can tell you that now days we certainly preach it (but all my time is single seat fighters anyway). I have a grandfather who flew B-24's in the Pacific and a neighbor who flew B-17's out of Italy. I'll have to ask them if there was a lot of smoking and joking.

BTW, don't confuse ICS comm with comm between aircraft.

Aaron_GT
11-28-2004, 09:25 AM
"I haven't seen the original memphis belle. Still that is a pretty bold statement to make that the US lacked comm discipline"

I've seen the original Memphis Belle documentary (as opposed to the Hollywood film) although it was a few years ago. As I mentioned above, comms were busy in the sections of the film shown. How much of that was selected for dramatic effect I don't know, but with up to 8 people on a plane manning guns then you are going to get a lot of chatter. Most of the chatter in the documentary is discussing locations of the enemy, noting enemies going down, or B17s going down (plus people expressing a hope that the crew bail out). Busy but not necessarily undisciplined.

In a Lancaster or Halifax you have basically 3 gunners (apart from the rare instances of the original ventral turret or unofficial hatch guns) plus it was dark. So you get less chat as there are less people and less to see.

huggy87
11-28-2004, 01:08 PM
Aaron,

I imagine there was a lot of intercom going on within a B-17 during a fight. That could be SA detracting, but I don't imagine bomber crews clobbered the airwaves. Certain gighter groups were notorious for that, but I can't see bombers needing much interflight comm.

Nowadays, at SFARP and airwing exercises, we will replay attacks in audiotoriums with as many as 60 people in there. All radio comms are recorded and played back. We are very hard on each other about unneccesary comm.


BTW, I was LOL at your post two above describing the ICS comm on a night sortie.

Aaron_GT
11-28-2004, 03:04 PM
"I imagine there was a lot of intercom going on within a B-17 during a fight. "

That's what I was talking about, and is present on the Memphis Belle documentary.

Aaron_GT
11-28-2004, 03:05 PM
"BTW, I was LOL at your post two above describing the ICS comm on a night sortie."

hehe thanks

Provost.Marshal
11-28-2004, 11:51 PM
G'day all. This photo was taken over the Bismark Sea In 1943. I wouldn't know which variant it is but this was taken in theater. I wish William "Bull" Garing was still alive as he would be able to shed light on this subject.

http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/remember.nsf/10c400fd5e135a44ca256ab6007a37e1/24b3829601116084ca256c1b001895fb/Content_1/0.2A?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif]http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/remember.nsf/10c400fd5e135a44ca256ab6007a37e1/24b3829601116084ca256c1b001895fb/Content_1/0.2A?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

WIFC_Phantom
11-29-2004, 01:13 AM
i think there is a distinct difference between so called discipline and not getting your plane shot down by not saying anything!

You can see the guy there from external view so lets see his point of view internally....i think it degrades the view of all those brave observers (armed or unarmed) who flew in beaufighters! ...ok..that emotional blackmail was a long shot....just please give us the rearward view...i can usually fly and destroy the target but cannot make it back because you cannot see if anyone is chasing you...i dont care about a rear gun!!

Maybe it was a custom field modification made on the ground for certain bases in certain circumstances??

whiteladder
11-29-2004, 02:57 AM
The Beaufighter in buz13 post is a Mk V from No 455 Squadron and is different from the Beau (a Mk21 )modelled in the game.

Australian production of the Beau was split into early and late production. Early production is modelled in the game and this didn`t have a rear gun.

If the date of the photograph for Provost.marshals post is correct then it is not a Australian produced MK21. The RAAF recieved 218 Beaus of various mark between 1942 and 1945 and I would guess it is one of these in the picture.

mark