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Danelov
08-22-2006, 01:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifI like the idea, only I like two proposse two points to study.

-1 Some type of settings realism standard to achieve this incredible 100.000 t.For example a minimum of 60-70 % realism settings, something like this.

-2 A more reasonable number of tons,any U-Boot had obtained 100.000 tons in a sole patrol in WWII ,the more near was Hessler with the U-107 with the record of 86.699 t.Certainly Silent Hunter III is a game, but personally I try to find in this game the more realistic aproach to the activities of the U-Boots in WWII.For shot and shot I have the choice to go to some game style "Star Wars" or others.

Do you know what that mean 100.000 t?

-19 C-2 cargos or
-84 destroyers of V&W class or
-2857 Elco boats or
-105 corvettes or
-38 Coastal merchants or
-31 Small merchants or
-16 C-3 Cargos or
-13 T-2 tankers or
-Etc

With the standard 14 torpedos of your VIIC and with the "Olympic gods" of your side and maybe with the luck of take a big Passenger ship or a battleship you can maybe aproach this number.
And that without misses torpedos or duds.

Certainly the things are more easy with a XXI,but coming back in theme ,I find 100.000 tons is a little excessive.Nobody is Kretschmer ,and this last maybe had never dreaming is his best moments of a number of tons like this.

Good hunting

Danelov
08-22-2006, 01:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifI like the idea, only I like two proposse two points to study.

-1 Some type of settings realism standard to achieve this incredible 100.000 t.For example a minimum of 60-70 % realism settings, something like this.

-2 A more reasonable number of tons,any U-Boot had obtained 100.000 tons in a sole patrol in WWII ,the more near was Hessler with the U-107 with the record of 86.699 t.Certainly Silent Hunter III is a game, but personally I try to find in this game the more realistic aproach to the activities of the U-Boots in WWII.For shot and shot I have the choice to go to some game style "Star Wars" or others.

Do you know what that mean 100.000 t?

-19 C-2 cargos or
-84 destroyers of V&W class or
-2857 Elco boats or
-105 corvettes or
-38 Coastal merchants or
-31 Small merchants or
-16 C-3 Cargos or
-13 T-2 tankers or
-Etc

With the standard 14 torpedos of your VIIC and with the "Olympic gods" of your side and maybe with the luck of take a big Passenger ship or a battleship you can maybe aproach this number.
And that without misses torpedos or duds.

Certainly the things are more easy with a XXI,but coming back in theme ,I find 100.000 tons is a little excessive.Nobody is Kretschmer ,and this last maybe had never dreaming is his best moments of a number of tons like this.

Good hunting

Realjambo
08-22-2006, 01:40 PM
A fair point Danelov. I just wanted to add that historically in the forum the 100k club prospered prior to GW becoming the 'must have' mod for the majority of players, and indeed yes it was easier to achieve that 100k, given we didn't have the more realistic damage model that GW offers.

Especially early in the war, before merchants were armed, it was possible with the stock game to deck gun and sink any size of merchant ship, even passenger liners. You could theoretically torpedo DD escorts from a convoy then go in and deck gun an entire convoy, using your torps to mop us the rest or only in weather that prevented you using the deck gun. Also I'd add that many a 100k claim of mine did indeed include a Royal Oak, a Nelson, a King George or several passenger liners which puts you a considerable way towards your 100k.

As I say, you raise a good point. It will be interesting to see what other Kaleuns think of a GW 100k club with difficulty settings as a stipulation. Lets see! - everyone? what do you think? Willhelm I especially invite your views on this, given it's your 'baby'.

Just an idea, why not run a thread where claims for 50, 75 and 100k can be posted, and in turn - like the 'old' 100k club, someone could design a 'brag badge' i.e. a bronze, silver and gold 'button' or something we could display in our sigs? The old 100k club was massively popular and all credit to Willhelm for running it. I reckon we can adjust it to suit GW, whilst including an element of playful competition and retaining something goals to aspire to. I can imagine posts such as "I had my Bronze AND now I just got my Silver button too! wahoo!"

Ali_109
08-22-2006, 02:06 PM
I agree, i think the club should be adjusted for GW. Without any mods i was hitting 70000 quite easily, in GW it is much harder to get higher tonnage, i think RJ has some good points in there, what do you reckon Wilhelm?

skimbo
08-22-2006, 04:06 PM
Please alter it for GW mod!

About a yar ago when I was running vanilla SH3 it wasnt a prob, I could have done it easy.

The GW mod is brillo - but there's more chance of me being bitten by a daffodil than of getting 100k.

How about 100k for vanilla SH3 and a lower amount for GW mod users?

Currently my best patrol in a type VIIB was 1 med 1 large tanker and x2 large cargo. (about 30,000 tons all in) using GW mod.

eek!

Skimbo

Shahed_Kazi
08-22-2006, 09:08 PM
I did my 3rd 100k Patrol for GW1.1 last night. I think it's the best I did so far at 112k or soemthing along that. I have the screens, will resize and post them eventually. Right after that I spent about 6-7 hours today doing another patrol, ended at 46k (lol?). Well anyway 100k is now a personal standard for me, it's like if I don;t get there I don;t mind but it's a personal benchmark for me. The closer to that benchmark the better.

In fact I find every kill to be MUCH more intense and gratifying (don't take it literally) than vanilla.

I agree that there should be some set standard for the 100k. For example: Grey Wolves mod, at least 60% realism setting, obviously duds on, externals off, events off, unlimited everything everything off, you can even define which setting. Of course if we really want to seperate the men from the boys, 90% realism GW 1.1, should be the norm, manual targetting and no officer input on. That's too hard for me right now I think, but there are folks here who can do it I'm sure. BTW the ship mod enhances your tonnage as well if you meet a large ship you can get lots of extra tonnage over a standard GW player. So basically first thing is everyone should be using the same game + same mods. More police work.

Let me warn you there is no way of knowing what setting the player was using or is there ? Anyway policing this affair is not worth the hassel. It should be as it is now, it relies on the person's own net worth to give a good showing. If people fake their way in then well.. losers and who cares anyway. It's just a number and a bunch of pixels on screen in the end.

Marriott90
08-22-2006, 11:14 PM
With NYGM TW the highest amount of tonnage i've achieved is somewhere around 23,000. I think GW and NYGM should be 50k club, and stock should be 100k

3.JG51_Molders
08-23-2006, 12:11 AM
I recently completed a career at 100% realism in Grey Wolves in my Type IIA. The highest tonnage number I got during that career was 22000 tons. My new career in the Type IIA out of Kiel is going qutie well with four patrols under my belt. I admire the realism of Grey Wolves not to forget the visual difference. I remember when the 100k started and was quite eager to get add myself to it but when I noticed many of the players who posted playing at realism settings 40-50% and sometimes below that it just killed it for me. I look forward to starting a VIIB career out of Wilhelmhaven or even out of a base in France and eagerly look forward to a Grey Wolves tonnage club with a minimum realism setting.

Realjambo
08-23-2006, 03:14 AM
All good comments. I propose that Wilhelm sets out some basic rules and guidelines, and we can all agree or argue tweaks to them. Let's get this off the ground. Wilhelm, I would urge you to consider a tiered i.e. 25k, 50k, 75k etc approach, but let's see what you come up with.

Goose_Green
08-23-2006, 03:25 AM
I have to agree with RJ's comments posted above.

I also believe that there should be 2 100K patrol clubs, one for the stock and minor mods and another for the GW and NYGM mods which share the same damage model, don't forget that some players here are far more true to the ideals of U-Boat warfare and play in my opinion a very difficult mod called NYGM - that mod is the most realistic I have played and not really had the courage to sustain. The last time I played I think I died into my first patrol, which wasn't that very far from the real U-boat war where Kaleuns would set off on their maiden patrol and never return.

Anyway, getting back to the point. Some of you are already achieving 100K with GW, but what realism are you playing at? Personally I have been playing 100% for the last 6 to 8 months or soand the closest I have gotten is 89K and that was with a IXC, it's even more difficult with a VII. So in my opinion the realism setting should be also a factor, maybe a qualifying mark of 70 or 80% realism is required to join sucha prestigous club.

These are only my opinions, but I thibk the level of the bar MUST be raised! The higher the standard of course the more sweeter the taste of victory!

Baldricks_Mate
08-23-2006, 05:08 AM
If I may throw a few other points in too?

It depends on how you play the game. And please remember it is a game.

I play 1.4 stock, no mods. My choice. I looked at and tried some mods and decided my machine limitations and online flotilla committments were higher than installing GW et al.

So, dilemma! And I can't manual target for quids. Math passed me by. I can fire by gut feel but calculate it? Nah!

I want to play at a reasonable level, away from arcade difficulty. And arcade difficulty itself isn't the problem alone. The problem is the credibility of tonnage scores.

Solution:

1) Play DiD and more importantly "No Reloads" -if you don't like the way your scenario turned out, tough. Reload only permitted in event of CTD. BTW happens from time to time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

2) Don't cherry pick. Real Kaleuns didn't do that the way cherrypicking is done in a game.

3) Harbour raiding? Did'nt really happen (notable exception for Prien http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif)

4) In game set up, tick all boxes except for weapons officer assistance. Heck, thats what he's there for anyway. Realism level = 94%

5) An intangible thing...integrity. I am supposed to be modelling my gameplay as an honourable Officer of the Kreigsmarine, within my game's limitations of course. I will not suffer trading in my honour for a cheat.

6) You have your orders, sail there, patrol your grid, go sink some ships and sail back to "Dock at..." Try a real Kaulen ditzing off wherever he likes and explain that to BDU when he gets back!

Use guidelines like these and your 100k+ slaughter-fests will die pretty quickly. Yeah I have had a few 100k patrols, but only a few. And posted only one, my first and it was something like 100,001 tons, just over the line.

11 careers, 6 dead Kaeluns, 5 survived, 2 retired early (via SH Commander.

Gentlemen, these are my real credentials, not just a screenie.

Goose_Green
08-23-2006, 05:27 AM
You are the SH3 player I was making a fleeting example of - the hardcore and dedicated Kaleun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 06:27 AM
Agreed.

My Sub VIIB, realism 72%.

Only things IIRC that are off are manual data, and no officer input. I do aim for 100%, eventually.

 slept over it and again I emphasise the standard must be the same.

Imagine GG runs at 100% with a IIA and gets 45K. THAT! IMO is waymore of an achievement than getting 300k with o% realism, or 100k with 30% realism. People play with different realism settings, different mods.

You cannot judge all the same, if they are not playing by the same standard. You can play SIlent Hunter 3 like an arcade game, I play usually in a games cafe and some there play vanilla with unlimited everything and of course 100k in that category is extremely easy to achieve.

Either you raise the standard for all or you make different categories of achievement, possibly with different names. I'm not feeling very creative right now, but anyway I'll make an effort.

This is considering that 100% realism is 100% hardcore simming and is just an example.

-Platinum badge: Platinum Eagle with leaves and submarine like in GG's signature + RitterKreuz, for 100K sunk.
Criteria: Minimum realism setting 92%. GW 1.1.

-Gold badge: Gold Eagle with leaves and submarine like in GG's signature + Gold Cross.
Criteria: Minimum realism setting 72%. GW 1.1.

-Silver badge: Gold Eagle with leaves and submarine like in GG's signature + Iron Cross.
Criteria: Minimum realism setting 52%. vanilla.

.... and so on.

Again this is just an example. I'm not suggesting it actually be done like this but it could. of course in this example GW is more regarded than vanilla, which in itself could be a problem. We are defining here what is a "higher" achievement than another. This is something pretty hard to define, if at all. What we do not want to do is exclude people on the basis of "achievement". You have to try an create different criteria whihc consider everyone in this community.

GG, isn't NYGM included in GW ? IIRC that's what I read on the GW website, that NYGM in included in GW 1.1. BTW when do you get a IX in SH3 campaign ?

Goose_Green
08-23-2006, 06:58 AM
The damage model for GW is the same model thats in NYGM.

I play SH3 with SH3 Commander, and you can get the Type IXB in October 1939 with the 2nd Flotilla. The stock game some how restricts or is not faithful to the actual sub availability dates - SH3 Commander during it's many updates has corrected that problem giving the user greater freedom of their start dates and preferred sub.

For example, I never use the Type II so I never start my campaign's in 1939 with 1st Flotilla, it's not until their move to Brest after the fall of France do the Type VII's become available with the 2nd Flotilla.

BTW - My Ritterkruz in my sig is not an award gained playing SH3 or achieving 100K patrols it just looked nice to add to my sig.

In fact the original qualification for the Ritterkreuz was 100K GRT of ships for a career, most of the aces received that award when they were very close or surpassed the mark, Prein got his for sinking the Royal Oak, exceptions to the rule were Teddy Suhren who got his as First Watch Officer! 1st WO does most if not all of surfaced shooting, it was believed that he had a hand in nearly 200K tons of shipping during his career.

Messervy
08-23-2006, 07:22 AM
The 100 K club is for those who for some reason like to compete.

As it is with all and every competition it comprises of frustration that needs to be overcome.

Since SH3 is a special breed of game the frustration is not determined by challenge itself, but by desire of each participant to be at the top.
The way the human nature works, and the absence of meassurable honesty regarding the participants, I find 100K club more of a charade.

To mimmic the way real Kaleuns competed for tonnage is to restrain yourself from pleasure of playing a game and instead focus on surviving.

I don`t want to spoil anybody`s party here but wanting to make 100K club a place to compete against fellow Kaleuns is like playing Call of Duty online on unpure server without Punkbuster.

Those who know what I`m talking about have first hand experiences with real frustration of very special kind. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It would be nice, I have to agree, but the way SH3 is made, I tend to stay away from competition for the reasons stated above.

However I sincerely wish all those, whom 100K club offers a place to have fun, endless hours of exactly this - pure, unstained fun.

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Goose_Green:
I play SH3 with SH3 Commander, and you can get the Type IXB in October 1939 with the 2nd Flotilla.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like the IX right now I'm in 1941. Cna I get it with the 7th flotilla ? I have SH3C installed as well, but I turned off historical sub dates not knowing what that does.