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View Full Version : very first impressions on 4.02m: P-51D over NW Europe map



Chuck_Older
10-18-2005, 07:12 PM
OK, firstly, I can't tell you how difficult this is to come here and post this after I waiting 2.5 hours for the flippin patch to download.

Secondly-
I just gave a P-51D with 100% fuel full CEM, blah blah but with speedbar a proper wringing out at tree-top level over the new map

new P-51D flight model: errr...ummm...if you're an OK pilot with a Mustang in 4.01m, and by this I mean you really do use the rudder as a primary control input and you're used to adjusting your rudder inputs very slightly and precisely, then you'll have absolutely no problems reining in the Mustang's wandering nose. I use an X-45 with the notorious rocker rudder...and I Chandelled perfectly on my second try. Am I a good virtual pilot? I think I'm OK. But the rudder is an instant and second nature input when I fly the virtual skies. Co-ordinated turns became the order of the day in 4.01 and I must say I want them that way

My advice for the P-51- learn when to kick the rudder hard, and when to caress it. Learn when to use opposite rudder in a bank and when not to. Pick a target inthe distance, trim the plane for a bank turn, and use your rudder inputs to keep the nose on target. I honestly needed about 5 minutes to adjust to the new FM to the point I threw the plane all over the sky, didn't spin it, had a big grin on my face

By the way....I saw 330 mph indicated in a straight and level run at 350ft with full power and the rad all the way open? It decelerated from 390 IAS to 330 after a short dive. Held that straight and level for about 5 minutes, climb indicator and altimeter tell me I wasn't diving. And I had 330 mpg IAS. is this a new little twist? I don't recall this speed from the D model before. I'll have to check my ref, but this feels right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Plane trims like a wet dream, I could take a nap if I trim for straight and level for cruise

OK, more fun stuff:

This is my "personal" P-51D, Bounce Buggy, beating up the airbase on the new map:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/bbbuzz.jpg


here's an aerial view of the new airbase on the new map:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/NWEairbase.jpg

A word about the new map: great


I have a few small complaints (small, like it is too small for my taste but I know why it's that size). Exemplary work Ian and Co! If only all FB maps were like this one. No names on the towns? Joy! It is my new (or should I say "our" but enough of that) 'Poland' for a little something that's simmering http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Overall i score this map a 95% out of 100% for what I was looking for in the new map. Plenty of locales that look populated enough as-is, but plenty more to be populated by a mission builder

That airbase is simply, without question, the most logical, effectively laid-out, sensible, and plausible-looking static airfeild in any map we have. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Chuck_Older
10-18-2005, 07:12 PM
OK, firstly, I can't tell you how difficult this is to come here and post this after I waiting 2.5 hours for the flippin patch to download.

Secondly-
I just gave a P-51D with 100% fuel full CEM, blah blah but with speedbar a proper wringing out at tree-top level over the new map

new P-51D flight model: errr...ummm...if you're an OK pilot with a Mustang in 4.01m, and by this I mean you really do use the rudder as a primary control input and you're used to adjusting your rudder inputs very slightly and precisely, then you'll have absolutely no problems reining in the Mustang's wandering nose. I use an X-45 with the notorious rocker rudder...and I Chandelled perfectly on my second try. Am I a good virtual pilot? I think I'm OK. But the rudder is an instant and second nature input when I fly the virtual skies. Co-ordinated turns became the order of the day in 4.01 and I must say I want them that way

My advice for the P-51- learn when to kick the rudder hard, and when to caress it. Learn when to use opposite rudder in a bank and when not to. Pick a target inthe distance, trim the plane for a bank turn, and use your rudder inputs to keep the nose on target. I honestly needed about 5 minutes to adjust to the new FM to the point I threw the plane all over the sky, didn't spin it, had a big grin on my face

By the way....I saw 330 mph indicated in a straight and level run at 350ft with full power and the rad all the way open? It decelerated from 390 IAS to 330 after a short dive. Held that straight and level for about 5 minutes, climb indicator and altimeter tell me I wasn't diving. And I had 330 mpg IAS. is this a new little twist? I don't recall this speed from the D model before. I'll have to check my ref, but this feels right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Plane trims like a wet dream, I could take a nap if I trim for straight and level for cruise

OK, more fun stuff:

This is my "personal" P-51D, Bounce Buggy, beating up the airbase on the new map:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/bbbuzz.jpg


here's an aerial view of the new airbase on the new map:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/NWEairbase.jpg

A word about the new map: great


I have a few small complaints (small, like it is too small for my taste but I know why it's that size). Exemplary work Ian and Co! If only all FB maps were like this one. No names on the towns? Joy! It is my new (or should I say "our" but enough of that) 'Poland' for a little something that's simmering http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Overall i score this map a 95% out of 100% for what I was looking for in the new map. Plenty of locales that look populated enough as-is, but plenty more to be populated by a mission builder

That airbase is simply, without question, the most logical, effectively laid-out, sensible, and plausible-looking static airfeild in any map we have. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Estocade85
10-18-2005, 08:06 PM
Hey thanks for the tip! I fly the P-51D whenever I can so I can sure use it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Estocade85
10-18-2005, 11:41 PM
BTW what settings do you have for the rocker rudder? I have X-45 too...

FatBoyHK
10-19-2005, 12:59 AM
the biggest problem I have when flying a Mustang, is not the yaw instability, but the pitch instability..... you can't pull a steady lead on your target, and without that you can land enough 50cals hits to do any significant damage....

Chuck_Older
10-19-2005, 06:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
the biggest problem I have when flying a Mustang, is not the yaw instability, but the pitch instability..... you can't pull a steady lead on your target, and without that you can land enough 50cals hits to do any significant damage.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sigh...filter your pitch axis http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

F19_Ob
10-19-2005, 06:48 AM
I have rudder axis filtered fully and the sliders on a lazy climbing scale up to 70%.
This doesn't peovide full rudder but a tradeoff that feels good when aiming.

I have a twist stick. I suppose the reason why rudder rockers and twiststicks give so flimsy input is because the range of travel is so short, and to this a spring wich pulls back wich makes it difficult to make those small slow adjustments.

BuzzU
10-19-2005, 08:00 AM
P-51 feels fine with a good stick and rudder pedals.

Chuck_Older
10-19-2005, 09:33 AM
Feels fine over here with no pedals although I should make some. I'm going to stick by my guns- no problems in 4.02 with a P-51 that good technique and co-ordinated turns won't solve

TC_Stele
10-19-2005, 09:48 AM
The 51 is definately different now with the new patch. I took it for a spin on the 334th dedicated, which actually isnt a good place to take it dog fighting with all the low level dog fighting going on there, to see how it handled. The acceleration is quick, the speed is top notch now. I was able to pull away from fights fairly easily and faster than before.

The handling is the main feature that I noticed. It doesnt spin out as much as I'm use to seeing in the previous patch. It can do sharp turns, if done properly, now to the point where you start blacking out a bit, something I hadn't been able to reach before without spinning out.

I only got 4 kills on that server last night, but I'm able to get more with other fighters. Although, this is a low level dogfighting server.

The plane doesnt "feel" (yes I said feel, taboo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) any better or worse. Just different.

The P-47 is now a monster, btw.

Estocade85
10-19-2005, 10:09 AM
What does axis filtering mean?

Chuck_Older
10-19-2005, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Estocade85:
What does axis filtering mean? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In-game, there is an option for setting joystick settings. You can choose to filter an axis, which is for want of a better explanation "filtering out" radical inputs by the pilot- a little. I think of it as smoothing out your inputs

I needed this after I patched to 4.01

I had been making a campaign with the H81A-2, and suddenly, it bobbed up and down like a cork in a toilet bowl while taxiing. I forget who suggested I filter than axis, but it instantly solved my problem. Before, I had been "chasing" the nose with the stick, and I could never settle it down. After I filtered the inout in-game, all was back to normal

I assume this is because joysticks will 'spike' occasionally or in certain situations, and one routine can't possibly cover all conditions and joysticks, so you can filter the input. That's just a guess

bird_brain
10-19-2005, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Before, I had been "chasing" the nose with the stick, and I could never settle it down. ... I assume this is because joysticks will 'spike' occasionally or in certain situations, and one routine can't possibly cover all conditions and joysticks, so you can filter the input. That's just a guess </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is called PIO ... Pilot Induced Oscillation ... and it happens in real life too. That is how a test pilot crashed the first XF-22 on a low level pass over the runway. (It bounced back up & was repairable ~ after that they kept the gear down on low level passes) The pilots' reactions are too slow to keep up with the plane's reaction time so he winds up "Behind the Plane". To solve this, they placed a computer "Filter" over the manual inputs to minimize the violent reactions caused by an adrenaline rush when the human pilot was about to crash.

The F-16 has a "Manual Pitch Override" you can flip on the joystick to allow you to pull higher Gs than the computer thinks are OK. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Whenever you use a Fly by Wire system... like a joystick... you have to adjust the input to give you a little slack.

I have a small "Dead Zone" on all the Axis' to prevent that problem, and prefer a straight response curve on both pitch & roll axis. if you curve the response, you get more control input at the outer edge of the curve and that is even less predictable to me.

Chuck_Older
10-19-2005, 03:46 PM
Thanks Jay


Known about PIO for years and years though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Went to aeronautical engineering school for a few years in the '90s. It might seem like I'm describing PIO but the pilot couldn't start, end, or influence the oscillations in any way. They were just there, and after filtering, they were gone

bird_brain
10-19-2005, 05:22 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

GBrutus
10-19-2005, 06:02 PM
P-51 handles very nicely with 4.02. Not flown it seriously for a good while but went online tonight with it and had a great time. Got to say I've no problems in pitch or yaw. Don't have pedals as such, just a daft device on the back of my throttle (afterburner II) which works fine.

danjama
10-19-2005, 06:47 PM
If its true that "filtering" axis makes the 51 better, can someone post their settings? i really would like the osciallations to be less extreme.

F19_Ob
10-20-2005, 01:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
If its true that "filtering" axis makes the 51 better, can someone post their settings? i really would like the osciallations to be less extreme. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

U get a bit different results depending on stick. Filtering only smoothens input by slowing them down a bit.

What U can do to test is to leave your settings (parameters in settings) as they are now and only change filtering.
Apply full filtering for all axis (pitch, roll, and yaw)to start with just by moving the filtering-slider in the ingame input-settings (sticksettings).
If movement is too slow, try setting all filtering to half value.

I have full filtering on rudder and the others just above half way. This slows down the movement a bit so the plane may roll a bit slower but it doesn't affect ones turning ability.

I still think they should have added some axis-dampening by default on most planes, with the Hurricane as model.
Perhaps p47 was as stable as Hurricane?
Lot easier to hit with hurri because its stable and dampened by default.

Hope this may haelp a bit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif