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View Full Version : oleg... :P .50 cals still need a fixing



Snuffly
12-27-2004, 09:17 PM
Hey oleg and friends, I think i mentioned it before, but i'm not sure. But the .50 cals on any airplane need to be fixed.

-Sorry if that paragraph above sounded, mean, annoyed, irritated, etc... Didn't mean it that way.

But I have talked to some fellas for a long time, and decided to post some things about the .50 cals that need to be fixed and reasons.

Btw I read a book about a mustang ace that described the .50 cals very specifically.

1. They need tracers. In the book the guy said that in some missions they would load there planes with "tracer bullets" (smoke comes off the end, like the germans tracers) But also sometimes they wouldn't need "tracer bullets" and load in regular bullets, but he said either way the bullets still had some smoke coming off of it, just the "tracer bullets" had a longer stream and denser smoke.

2. Need to be stronger. again in the book the guy said that a short few bursts would cause the enemies cooling system to smoke or even full black smoke. So I suggest making the bullets about 25%-30% stronger or somewhere around there.

3. This one is hard to explain to please bare with me.
In the game you got the guns firing 3 bullets at a time at the same time on both wings. So basically you got this: 6 bullets fire...6 bullets fire...6 bullets fire.
It should be 3 guns fire 3 bullets on the right wing, then right after that 3 guns fire 3 bullets on the left wing.
So IT SHOULD be like this: 3 bullets fire on left3bullets fire on right3bullets fire on left.
Cuz when you got six guns firing six bullets at the same time you get a half second pause wich sux.


ummm i think thats about it, so hey umm thx fer reading and happy new year!!!!

-Cheers- http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
12-27-2004, 09:42 PM
Be warned...this is a "sensitive issue". But before the vulchers pounce...thanks for at least outlining your ideas, your reasonings, and your sources. Its appreciated by some.

That said, I don't think the evidence is conclusive. Oleg goes by physics models, bullet penetration, deflection, angle, ballistics, velocity, and other functions of how the weapons work. Its quite impressive...but its complicated and he may not be right, we may not be right, but healthy discussion is ok. Back a few months ago, there was a huge argument over the dispersion of the .50cal. I'm not sure if you were here for that...but the .50cal doesn't disperse like it used to. Its probably, in some ways, more effective than before. So with that in mind, very little else is likely to happen.

BTW: I do partially agree on the 6 tracer, nothing 6 tracer, nothing. It should be randomized...not syncronized in any way.

WWMaxGunz
12-27-2004, 10:23 PM
Please not one wing fires while the other does not! The plane would rattle back and
forth from the asymmetric recoils of 3 guns firing on one wing! Better to have two
inside, then two middle then 2 outer guns fire if sequenced but really... are the
bullets going out as groups to save the drop of framerate? That would not just fit
the graphics but also planes being able sometimes to cross through the fire between
bullets untouched but if there is even one hit, it is heavy effect.

CV8_Dudeness
12-27-2004, 10:53 PM
AP is already the premier round in FB

stronger unrealistically just like they are dispersing un-realistically ? (olegs words , not mine )

p1ngu666
12-27-2004, 11:02 PM
to have ripple fire - like they did irl would be much nicer...

if u upped .50cal strength, then ud haveto up the other calibres right...

HayateAce
12-27-2004, 11:54 PM
Agree about the tracers. They die out well before making it to the target. Just a few meters out of the chute it seems.

WUAF_Toad
12-28-2004, 12:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snuffly:

2. Need to be stronger. again in the book the guy said that a short few bursts would cause the enemies cooling system to smoke or even full black smoke. So I suggest making the bullets about 25%-30% stronger or somewhere around there.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few short burst??? I found one short burst to be quite effective in IL2 already. I've seen it cut zeros in half, black smoke BF109's, and light up KI84 wings. I don't really mind if Oleg make them even better to please the crowd because I've stopped considering IL2 a serious sim a long time ago. Besides, I love uber planes and uber guns. I fly mostly for fun and not to prove skills.

polkku
12-28-2004, 12:32 AM
About the effectiveness of .50cal from the recieving end point of view:

Some 80% of those who attack me with .50cal will start shooting from 800m or so and that doesn't even scare me. I fly a bomber and that just tells me there's some idiot wanting to be shot down by my reargunner. The rest 20% use proper tactics and shoot from 200m or less without giving me a proper chance to shoot at them, and from that distance one to four well aimed bursts is enough to bring my Stuka or Heinkel down. Usually all my controls are gone or the crew is dead. This doesn't show outside but the insides of the plane are totally messed up.

IIJG69_Kartofe
12-28-2004, 02:43 AM
My god ... Not again ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Please ... Try flying zeroes or 109 or 190 online one week or two, after that come back here and tell us if .50 REALLY and SERIOUSLY need fixing.

30% more ....

If i haven't read it myself i won't believe it !

anarchy52
12-28-2004, 03:12 AM
Is this guy trolling or is just uninformed or one of those guys that scream .50 are weak, and then I check their user stat and see that they have 1% hit percentage. Maybe guided fire & forget .50s would be more helpfull?
30% more powerfull? It would be funny if it wasn't tragic...if the guy really believes what he's saying.

WOLFMondo
12-28-2004, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snuffly:
2. Need to be stronger. again in the book the guy said that a short few bursts would cause the enemies cooling system to smoke or even full black smoke. So I suggest making the bullets about 25%-30% stronger or somewhere around there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally disagree they should be improved, they work great when the bullets converge on target. The statement from that book is true but does he state at what angle he makes those hits? If you get 1 clean hit of 8 rounds from a P47 onto the side or nose a 190 or 109 you'll totally screw up there engine, probably even stopping it completely and might even kill or wound the pilot, even hits from a dead 6 will damage the skin on the wings causing the opponent to have problems flying and there top speed will drop.

The thing about using the .50's is getting a good angle on the opponent, dead 6 attacks don't work to well with them but from any other angle they will do some serious damage.

There nasty little guns, individually not very good but 4, 6 or 8 of them hitting on there convergence in the right place at as brutal as a Mk108 round or a pair of Hispano's.

Capt._Tenneal
12-28-2004, 08:19 AM
Not to excuse Snuffly, but I think he came to the boards after the "Great .50 cal Debate" a while back, so I'll give him some slack. But yes this topic has been beaten as thoroughly as a dead horse can be beaten. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ZG77_Nagual
12-28-2004, 08:29 AM
It's all about aim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Nice delivery on the opening thread/post. I for one appreciate a considerate post - whether I agree or not. Tracers is another subject. .50 tracers are not very useful.

SeaFireLIV
12-28-2004, 08:41 AM
Yea, his post was at least polite.
All I would say is gunnery practise and you`ll be taking down any plane with relative ease.

Remember the pilot`s in the book were TRAINED and became SKILLED and became ACCURATE.

Just because you can`t be as good as the guys in your book simply means you need set your convergence to what`s good (NOT 1000m for example) and aim until your hand-eye coordination gets it right. You mentioned yourself this was a Mustang ACE, are you an Ace? I`ll tell you the ACE in your book isn`t an Ace because of stronger bullets!!

You really don`t want to ruin a sim by increasing bullet power by 30% do you? REALLY?

VW-IceFire
12-28-2004, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Please not one wing fires while the other does not! The plane would rattle back and
forth from the asymmetric recoils of 3 guns firing on one wing! Better to have two
inside, then two middle then 2 outer guns fire if sequenced but really... are the
bullets going out as groups to save the drop of framerate? That would not just fit
the graphics but also planes being able sometimes to cross through the fire between
bullets untouched but if there is even one hit, it is heavy effect. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
He's talking about the tracers...the actual firing would be the same. There's still bullets being fired...its just where the tracer bullets are. Firing from one side and then the other is just as useless actually...

I'd prefer a ripple fire. Tracers from inner guns port and starboard, tracers from middle, and then tracers from outside before starting again (randomized is even better).

carguy_
12-28-2004, 11:05 AM
The day I saw a guy get 4 and half kills in a P51 in VWF I`m totaly against any calls for upgrading .50cal.

And I swear I never saw anyone do the same with a single MG151/20.

IMO the fifties issue is solved,.50 converging very nicely,now Oleg and team should take up problem of HE rounds in MG151/20.

Both issues were proved througoutly but fifties shows for which public 1C is working.

MG151/20 has been wrong from the start and it still is.

HayateAce
12-28-2004, 12:12 PM
Make your own thread about 15151515151.

Oh wait, there's already a thread about teh 15151515151.

Online .50s are not "solved".

Von_Rat
12-28-2004, 12:22 PM
im getting my club, looks like this horse is still breathing.

Atomic_Marten
12-28-2004, 12:24 PM
I agree with what thread starter stated more or less..

WUAF_Badsight
12-28-2004, 02:41 PM
you do ?

why ?

the M2 fifty cals were made to disperse tighter than Oleg Maddox said was realistic , i.e. they are better than they should be according to him

also , in FB we already have Armour Piercing rounds (which the M2 .50cal is) making the most effective damadge . . . . . fact

now you want just MGs to be able to blow planes up completely now as well huh ?

Fehler
12-28-2004, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HayateAce:
Make your own thread about 15151515151.

Oh wait, there's already a thread about teh 15151515151.

Online .50s are not "solved". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean, not arcad-ish enough for you.

Perhaps you should stop whining so much and learn to fly/shoot better. (Just a helpful hint to make your gaming a bit more pleasurable)

FiNaZZi
12-28-2004, 04:32 PM
First, the thought "omg 1/2 sec burst should down every plane i meet" should be erased from your mind sniffly.
Second of all, try to fly on the receiving end of the .50's
Third, try to shoot at convergence range.

We, LW pilots, who get shot by .50's, we know that the .50's are strong, especially in the 109 engine area and FW wing area...

Abbuzze
12-28-2004, 04:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snuffly:

2. Need to be stronger. again in the book the guy said that a short few bursts would cause the enemies cooling system to smoke or even full black smoke. So I suggest making the bullets about 25%-30% stronger or somewhere around there.

-Cheers- http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do!!! Just tested it a sec ago in WarClouds! Short burst into the 109 engine>> black smoke, just like it should be... from a straight 6 o´clock you can´t hit the engine, so hard to get any black smoke out of it... but this is the same situation for every gun in the game...
I have a ntrk from this 2 kills, short well aimd burst- smoke- Point!

VF-29_Sandman
12-28-2004, 08:25 PM
depending how u aim and WHERE it hits, the 50's are extremely effective. and like wuaf said, 1 well placed burst will lite a ki-84 up nicely.
the 109 and 190's especially have strong armor at the dead 6, and would be rather unrealistic in getting a fast kill from that area unlike a zero that has no armor. most effective way to kill a 109/190 is to use the up and under...come up under the bogey and rake the engine from below. this devastating attack will kill a 109 very quick. timing and range would be critical. probably alot of peeps shooting the 50's are just shooting from too far of range, out of convergance range, and doin the typical spray-n-pray infamously used online...and ya, i'm guilty of that also. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif