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HKLE
09-02-2004, 07:35 AM
Hi all

I recently was reading some in the book "battles with the Luftwaffe" (to be found in Amazon U.K.), where a German Me262 pilot states, that they had problems with the P51 due to their reduced speed during climbing - the P51s in descent being equal or superior to "our climbing speed at around 650 km/h" ...

I never reach these speeds during climbing with the Me262 - usually it is around 400 - 430 km/h ???

Any comments ?

HKLE
09-02-2004, 07:35 AM
Hi all

I recently was reading some in the book "battles with the Luftwaffe" (to be found in Amazon U.K.), where a German Me262 pilot states, that they had problems with the P51 due to their reduced speed during climbing - the P51s in descent being equal or superior to "our climbing speed at around 650 km/h" ...

I never reach these speeds during climbing with the Me262 - usually it is around 400 - 430 km/h ???

Any comments ?

Willey
09-02-2004, 11:20 AM
Don't climb too steep, it works. ~20-25m/s then. Also, it's TAS. The yellow needle. Above 600, you can give 100% without overheating, too.

VW-IceFire
09-02-2004, 01:59 PM
Unless I pull up really quickly, yes those speeds are attainable in a climb. Not for a long time but sufficient to gain 2000 meters or so.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

HKLE
09-03-2004, 04:34 AM
Thank you for your comments. I'll give it another try on the weekend

LEXX_Luthor
09-03-2004, 06:47 PM
For steep climbs in old jets you need afterburner.

Saab J~29 afterburner did nothing to increase sonic limited level speed but the climb rate doubled!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif (and fuel consumption tripled)



waiting for a real jet sim

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/img/ljungbyhed96/j29-3a.jpg
~ http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/29tunnan.htm

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Dammerung
09-06-2004, 12:32 AM
Korea and Vietnam anyone? Those F-4 Pilots had Everything agaisnt them, they had to be practically Dead Six to fire an AIM-9/AIM-4, were sluggish, and carried the Almost useless AIM-7- The poor guys didn't even have a Gun, and the Missiles had a minimum range, which they were frequently inside of. Plus, the USAF guys didn't even get AIM-9s on the F-4D, so their Main weapon was the AIM-7E- Not reliable for MiG-killing. And you thought it was hard to boom and zoom...?

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Kurfurst__
09-06-2004, 06:48 AM
Hmm. The best climbing speed of the Me 262 was about ~450 km/h IAS. However, since the Me 262 (and the 109K-4 which used the same instrument panel) had altitude compensating speed indicator, which showed IAS with one needle, and TAS with another, it could be that he referred to the best climbing speed in TAS, which would be around 600 km/h at 6-7000m.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/nw2004set7.jpg

We're walking in the air
We're floating in the midnight sky
And everyone who sees us greets us as we fly

robban75
09-06-2004, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:



_waiting for a _real_ jet sim_

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent choice of jetfighter LEXX! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.particle.kth.se/~lindblad/image/barrel.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

JG7_Rall
09-06-2004, 08:04 AM
Wow, that is one cool looking jet!

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/InGallantCompany.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

WOLFMondo
09-06-2004, 08:20 AM
It looks pregnant!

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

robban75
09-06-2004, 08:37 AM
It's the J29 Tunnan. Tunnan meaning "Barrel". Its rounded shape is because of the de Havilland Ghost engine.

On May 6:th 1954 a J 29B took the world speed record on a closed 500 km circuit with 977 km/h which were previously held by an F-86. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

LEXX_Luthor
09-06-2004, 09:36 PM
Thanks robban http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Can you imagine a 1950-1965 combat flight sim, as truly international in scope as much as a 1930s Spanish Civil WAR/China combo sim--with aircraft from every aircraft building nation on Earth.


Real jet simming
http://www.freebie.net/~colin/images/mildenhall_2000/s032_028.jpg http://www.freebie.net/~colin/images/mildenhall_2000/s032_027.jpg
~ http://www.freebie.net/~colin/aircraft/draken.htm



This is AUSSUM http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/img/saab/saabj35j.jpg



Detailed J~35 walkabout pics...
http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/AWA1/501-600/walk596_J-35Draken_Agulhon/walk596.htm
http://www.trylit.isp.pl/j35/index1.html



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

robban75
09-07-2004, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Thanks robban http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Can you _imagine_ a 1950-1965 combat flight sim, as truly international in scope as much as a 1930s Spanish Civil WAR/China combo sim--with aircraft from every aircraft building nation on Earth.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would really be awesome! Strikefighters Project 1 is an ok game, but I'd like more realism. There were some guys that modelled the Draken and Tunnan, I have no idea if they finished them. But it would be nice to try them out! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Btw, every summer on my vacation I guide at the airplane museum in Visby, Gotland. We currently have four(!) J35 Drakens, one SF37 Viggen, one JA37 JaktViggen, one J 32D Lansen(aswell as a prototype for the J32B) , one J29F Tunnan and one SK60. I've gotten so close to them it feels as if they are all mine! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

p1ngu666
09-07-2004, 04:29 PM
robban, would u prefer your own dora or those jets? if u hadto pick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

that barrel looks like a baby english electric lighting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.lightning.org.uk/aircraft/lg01.jpg

http://www.lightning.org.uk/

i have a poster of one on my wall, climbing near verticaly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

one pilot said there was nothing like flying in the pitch black over north sea, the fuel guage going down terribly quick, while the altimeter was in minus figures trying to find your wingman and your way home.
(they often turned a engine off to save fuel)

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt;NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers
&lt;lexx_luthor&gt;flowers across the land in BoB

LEXX_Luthor
09-07-2004, 10:15 PM
Saab J~35 or Bf~109 Dora....mmm I don't know about this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

If Oleg does what he should do, we wouldn't be Forced to Choose. We would have them ALL.

Crapp Jet thread, Awsum http://www.lexxfans.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/035.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Snootles
09-07-2004, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Can you imagine a 1950-1965 combat flight sim, as truly international in scope as much as a 1930s Spanish Civil WAR/China combo sim--with aircraft from every aircraft building nation on Earth.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually my ultimate dream of a flight sim is a lot like this. There would be three of them, namely 1948-1958 (Berlin Airlift escalation), 1962-1972 (Cuban Missile Crisis escalation), and 1985-1995 (Fulda Gap). Each one would be friggin' HUGE, with all the operational combat craft of each side (and some "almost" designs) flyable in each crew station, including flight engineers and radio operators for old bombers. Naval flying boats and patrol bombers modeled. Nuclear weapons would be available, but choosing to use them in the campaign would touch off an exchange that would likely ruin the chances of winning anything. Co-op multiplay would be crazy as all get-out.

******************************
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/theskatingribbit/Kudoarticleedited4ver2.jpg

This mysterious article appeared about a week ago in the Washington Post. When questioned about it, the EiC declined to respond. One truth prevails.

LEXX_Luthor
09-07-2004, 10:53 PM
Well you don't want just the planes limited to these operations, but ALL planes for ALL nations. That's why you can't name a sim "Berlin Airlift" or even "Korea Sim."

A "Korea" expansion pack for a 1950-1965 jet sim would be okay, and make much Profit.

Basically, you need the aircraft and ground stuff for Pakistan and Indian WARs for example, and would be most interesting. F~104 against MiG~21. I just found out recently that F~102 Delta Dagger was used operationally by both Greece and Turkey in missions in their conflict over the issue of Cyprus island--don't know if they saw combat but the intention was there (similar to YP~80 intercept mission against Me~262 over Italy but didn't pan out).

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
09-07-2004, 11:05 PM
france had some pretty wacky designs after war.
guess i could scan it for the royal lexx_luthor http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt;NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers
&lt;lexx_luthor&gt;flowers across the land in BoB

WUAF_Badsight
09-08-2004, 12:19 AM
frances post war ram jets were insane ! !

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-08-2004, 12:41 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

scan plz

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

robban75
09-08-2004, 06:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
robban, would u prefer your own dora or those jets? if u hadto pick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a tough one, but I'll have to go with the Dora! That plane speaks to me like none other! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

LeadSpitter_
09-09-2004, 02:32 PM
i would love the see this late 30s-40s italian jet, Caproni-Campini CC-2 N.1

http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Italy/images/Caproni-Campini%20CC1%20vigna.jpg

http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Italy/images/CC2-MM4850.jpg

http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/CC-2/CC-2_1.jpg

http://earth.endless.ne.jp/users/mac0115/n1.JPG
Engine: 1x Campini Motorjet with 700hp with burners making 700kg of thrust
Wing Span: 14.63 m
Length: 12.10 m
Height: 4.70 m
Weight: Empty 3,640 kg / Loaded 4,217 kg
Maximum Speed: 359.5 km/h
Ceiling: 4,000 m
Range: 500 km
Crew: 2
Armament: None
History:




A cut away image showing how the "Thermojet" was fitted into the C.C.-2 In 1931 Ing Secondo Campini submitted a report to the Italian Air Ministry, regarding the use of jet engines in aircraft .His design which he called the "Thermojet" consisted of a 900 hp Isotta Fraschini L.121/R.C.40 piston engine driving a compressor which used two ducted fans to compress the air and one fan to direct the flow of air, a ring of injectors introduced fuel and the air/fuel mix was burnt to give thrust.


On the 5/2/1934 a contract was signed with the Italian Air Ministry to build two prototype aircraft powered by the Campini "Thermojet" (called the C.C.-2) and one fuselage for static tests. Campini's own company V.E.N.A.R. Did not have the ability to make the aircraft and formed a partnership with the Caproni Company of Taliedo, with Campini in over all responsibility for the design and construction of the C.C.-2 with a contract dead line of 31/12/1936.

Unfortunately the deadline was not reached because of technical difficulties and rising costs, how ever the Italian Air Ministry granted an extension, much to the relief of all concerned. The first prototype (MM 487) was ready by 1940 and made it's first flight at the Taliedo airfield on the 27/8/1940 for ten minutes and again on the 16/10/1940 for five minutes. The second prototype (MM 488) flew for the first time on the 11/4/1941, on the 30/11/1941 MM 488 was flown on an official flight from Milan to Rome at a speed of 217.14 km/h the afterburner not being used to save fuel

No more work was done by Campini on the CC-2 as from 1942 he worked on water-jet powered mini-submarines for the Italian Navy. He did go on to design a twin jet engineered High-Altitude aircraft the S.C-3 and a ramjet powered autogiro the S.C.-5. Testing did continue with the CC-2 until September 1942, but with no apparent improvements forthcoming the two aircraft were put into storage.


The "jet" tail pipe of the C.C.-2




This how ever was not the end for the "Thermojet" engine as the Caproni Company refined the Campini engine. They concluded that it would be beneficial at high altitude as a supplementary engine to a conventional piston engine with a propellor. Accordingly Caproni started design work on the CA-183bis, a high altitude fighter, the "Thermojet" engine powered by a FIAT air-cooled radial piston engine driving a compressor to the rear of the mid-fuselage, the cooling air for the piston engine and the air for the compressor was fed be two scoops in the fuselage just behind the cockpit. It was expected that the engine would add around 60 mph at altitude to the Ca-183's top speed of 460 mph, but the Caproni CA 183 bis never got past the development of it's "Thermojet" as far as it's known.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-10-2004, 07:22 PM
Is Fiat G.50 faster than that? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That jet won't be needed, as it has no use in even "fantasy" air warfare sim. For the Joy of Flying it, then yes, Caproni-Campini is needed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Jets that have air warfare advantages like speed are the ones needed most. At least BI~1 has speed over its 1943 opponents, if nothing else.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Daiichidoku
09-13-2004, 02:48 PM
The Avro Arrow (CF 105) would lay waste to all other '50s jet types....well, in aesthetics, at least.....no FCS ever fitted, hehe (follwoed closely by the Drakken)

My ride for 50s jet would have to be the FORD...(F4D) Skyray....or the Vought Cutlass

LEXX_Luthor
09-13-2004, 07:32 PM
The Whining about I~185 is nothing compared to the Whining that would happen over Arrow in Oleg's 1950-1970 jet sim. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://www.avroarrow.org/images/Aviation%20Chapter1pic.jpg

~ http://www.avroarrow.org/

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif