PDA

View Full Version : Most important inter war avaition engine designs



Sergio_101
11-05-2007, 12:35 AM
My list is a short one.

Wright Whirlwind, Parent radial to nearly all WWII radials from P&W, Wright, BMW, Mitsubishi and, yes Bristol.

Curtiss Conqueror, copied and improved by Rolls Royce, Junkers, Damiler etc.

Whittle and Olhaus with their first areo gas turbine designs (jet engines).

Napier Dagger, Napier's evolutionary base for the Sabre.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inovative new designs...

Bristol sleeve valve radials. (Some Wright heritage here, but the sleeve valve makes it a different animal)

Napier's Sabre. (sleeve valve design decended from the "Dagger")

Allison's V-1710. (Decended more from the Liberty than anything else)

Junkers Jumo heavy oil diesels (truly unique, even today a world class design, never beaten, only copied)

Before you Luftwhiners get all hot and bothered
about the Curtiss Conqueror being copied...
Rolls Royce admits that the British goverment
had them purchase a Conqueror to reverse engineer
and "Anglisize". Yet the Junkers and Damiler internals
look more like a scaled up Conqueror than the RR Merlin and Kestrel.
But they are inverted of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

As to 1:1 pirating.....
Nearly everyone was building licenced versions of Wright, P&W or Bristol engines
before WWII. No point in worrying about licencing after starting a fight eh?

Soviets loved Wright radials, built many under licence, pirated and improved them as well.
BMW801s are nearly a 1:1 copy of a wright R-2600, ideas from late P&W Hornet radials
are incoperated as well.
Germans also built exact copies of several P&W designs. The P&W Hornet powered several
German aircraft most notable being the Ju-52.

The Japs were manufacturing nearly every P&W and Wright design under licence before WWII
broke out. Pearl Harbor was bombed by P&W designed radial engines....... with Hamilton Standard airscrews (propellers).


Sergio

Sergio_101
11-05-2007, 12:35 AM
My list is a short one.

Wright Whirlwind, Parent radial to nearly all WWII radials from P&W, Wright, BMW, Mitsubishi and, yes Bristol.

Curtiss Conqueror, copied and improved by Rolls Royce, Junkers, Damiler etc.

Whittle and Olhaus with their first areo gas turbine designs (jet engines).

Napier Dagger, Napier's evolutionary base for the Sabre.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inovative new designs...

Bristol sleeve valve radials. (Some Wright heritage here, but the sleeve valve makes it a different animal)

Napier's Sabre. (sleeve valve design decended from the "Dagger")

Allison's V-1710. (Decended more from the Liberty than anything else)

Junkers Jumo heavy oil diesels (truly unique, even today a world class design, never beaten, only copied)

Before you Luftwhiners get all hot and bothered
about the Curtiss Conqueror being copied...
Rolls Royce admits that the British goverment
had them purchase a Conqueror to reverse engineer
and "Anglisize". Yet the Junkers and Damiler internals
look more like a scaled up Conqueror than the RR Merlin and Kestrel.
But they are inverted of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

As to 1:1 pirating.....
Nearly everyone was building licenced versions of Wright, P&W or Bristol engines
before WWII. No point in worrying about licencing after starting a fight eh?

Soviets loved Wright radials, built many under licence, pirated and improved them as well.
BMW801s are nearly a 1:1 copy of a wright R-2600, ideas from late P&W Hornet radials
are incoperated as well.
Germans also built exact copies of several P&W designs. The P&W Hornet powered several
German aircraft most notable being the Ju-52.

The Japs were manufacturing nearly every P&W and Wright design under licence before WWII
broke out. Pearl Harbor was bombed by P&W designed radial engines....... with Hamilton Standard airscrews (propellers).


Sergio

M_Gunz
11-05-2007, 12:54 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

pole and line like that, you're looking for sport fish aintcha?

HotelBushranger
11-05-2007, 01:30 AM
Nah mate, I think hes on the level. I would have said something more constructive, but I know bugger all about aircraft engines http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Whirlin_merlin
11-05-2007, 06:58 AM
Sergio, where does the Curtiss D12 fit in the Conqueror story?

Taylortony
11-05-2007, 05:55 PM
I would have gone with the Rolls-Royce Kestrel which used technology from the D-12, but it was a significant forerunner to the Merlin which in my opinion was the Aero Engine that won the war.... Now I know you are gonna throw at me the big Radials etc, but without the Hurricane and Spitfire winning the BOB in the first place and the Lanc taking the war back to the Germans with the Merlin in it, it would have been game set and match before the USA and their engines ever significantly entered the war and that would have meant the war was lost........

Mind you the design did throw out some dogs like the Vulture in the Manchester


But let's not forget the Russian Aero Engines too

Sergio_101
11-06-2007, 11:09 AM
The Curtiss V-1570 "Conqueror" was a more powerful, larger
displacement and usualy gear reduction equipped
version of the Curtiss D-12.

Little difference, more like comparing a 265CID chevrolet to a 350CID Chevrolet V8.
Same engine design, different displacement.

"Mind you the design did throw out some dogs like the Vulture in the Manchester"

The vulture had great potential, was an excellent design.
The bearing fretting problem was fatal though.
There was just not enough time to sort it out.

Sergio

luftluuver
11-06-2007, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sergio_101:
Curtiss Conqueror, copied and improved by Rolls Royce, Junkers, Damiler etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Graham White says it was the Curtiss D-12. R-R re-engineered the D-12 incorporating improvements such as replacing the inferior closed end cylinder liner with open ones.

ImpStarDuece
11-06-2007, 01:32 PM
I'd argue that the Bristol Jupiter was equally as important as the Wright Whirlwind (and far outperformed it), and was the basis for both the Mercury and the Pegasus. The Whirlwind had very little to do with British inter-war radial designs. The later sleeve valve engines such as the Hercules were based on the Aquila and Perseus, which were both designed from RAE research into high hp air cooled engines.

True, the Jupiter was designed during WW1, but production didn't get underway until late 1918.

ImpStarDuece
11-06-2007, 05:35 PM
Some more interesting stuff on the Jupiter:

Nakajima began licensed production of the Jupiter in the mid-1920s. When they came to develop their own radial engines they based their first indigenous design, the Kotobuki, on the Jupiter and added elements from the Wright Whirlwind. The Hikari engine was a later development, used in many Japanese WW2 aircraft, and was still mostly based on the basic Jupiter design.

The Nakajima Sakae, perhaps the most important aviation Japanese fighter engine of the war, powering both the Zero and the Hyabusa, was a development of the Gnome-Rhone 14, which in itself had its origins in, you guessed it, the Jupiter.