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DIRTY-MAC
02-09-2006, 12:52 PM
How does it performe?

DIRTY-MAC
02-09-2006, 12:52 PM
How does it performe?

shinden1974
02-09-2006, 01:23 PM
turns decent, Roll is amazing, like 190's. stable and very fast in acceleration, some people will think it's overmodelled i'm afraid...

been intercepting B-29's in QMB since the patch came out...

JG53Frankyboy
02-09-2006, 01:36 PM
amazing max dive speed , ~850km/h IAS !
much better view out of pit than expectet, espacially to the back.
brutal hitting power , lot of ammo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

its a F6F killer

Xiolablu3
02-09-2006, 02:04 PM
On first impressions its a Japanese Fw190A http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


This is after 3 flights tho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

fordfan25
02-09-2006, 02:07 PM
turns great,cannons are powerfull,picks up speed crisply tough as a hellcat or hog http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

marc_hawkins
02-09-2006, 03:01 PM
So far all i can say is the pit looks ok! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Feathered_IV
02-09-2006, 04:05 PM
And heres me stuck at work http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

jimDG
02-09-2006, 04:31 PM
P-47 with 4x20mm sums it up.

Kocur_
02-09-2006, 05:28 PM
Easier Fw-190 with better front view http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Badsight.
02-09-2006, 10:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jimDG:
P-47 with 4x20mm sums it up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yea , plane of my Dreams !

ElAurens
02-09-2006, 10:35 PM
Exellent rate of climb, good roll and dive, fairly maneuverable, and great weapons. What's not to like? I totally vaporized a Mossie with a short burst online tonight...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Treetop64
02-09-2006, 10:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
And heres me stuck at work http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh-heh! Sucks for you, Bud! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Doug_Thompson
02-09-2006, 11:48 PM
I wasn't as impressed as the other folks here. Climb was mediocre. Maneuverability was OK as long as you kept your nose level or down. The diving ability was good but then you had to climb afterwards.

To be blunt, it doesn't do anything better than a Ki-84. It's just another Japanese also-ran. Let me dogfight it against a Hellcat, though.

R_Target
02-10-2006, 12:03 AM
Fun to fly. Fun to shred Hellcats with.

Badsight.
02-10-2006, 12:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
To be blunt, it doesn't do anything better than a Ki-84. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>which is entirely correct . . . . as well as historically accurate

to be fair - the Raiden did a poor job at its intended role during WW2 (& thank you for that by lots of american grandchildren currently running around)

but the Raiden has character - its a unique fatty , low on ammo , not the best at anything

its just a cool ride

TC_Stele
02-10-2006, 01:15 AM
I didnt fly it much but I did go up against it tonight with the corsair. Packs quite a punch even against the heavily armored corsair and seemed to hold its speed well against the corsair but its climb seemed like a drawback for it. Plane is tiny and at times I had difficulty getting a deflection shot on it.

It overheats quickly even with radiator fully open which is a hassle to deal with. May not last long in a large lasting furball.

Looks cute http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

alert_1
02-10-2006, 01:57 AM
J2M3 is like Fw190 without weigh of armour. But who need an armor if in this game a few pings of 7.7mm "render *controls* unusable" or cause masssive fuel leak even on well armored planes like Fw190. The armor in the game is really noting more then "dead" weight.

nakamura_kenji
02-10-2006, 02:24 AM
feather you go love it everything expect be ^_^

wonder if convince oleg make j2m7 ^_^

Feathered_IV
02-10-2006, 02:32 AM
Just got it!

Practicing offline for Sunday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Shreds the B-29's very nicely in the head-on. Maybe I'll finish making that Home Islands campaign after all.

nakamura_kenji
02-10-2006, 02:39 AM
interest in cockpit layout picture show fuel/alt/speed ect?

feather i go see if get oleg desync type-99-I and type-99-II cannon as current incorrect fire sync as was impossible do so due way gun work.

but it be small thing live with no matter much because raiden wonderful ^_^

yes sunday go be fun ^_^

JG53Frankyboy
02-10-2006, 03:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
.........., low on ammo , ........... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

? its not the AI controlled 4.02 J2M3 anymore http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

nakamura_kenji
02-10-2006, 03:30 AM
few us get oleg fix send email data ammo amount, ammo weight ect

210rpg type-99-I(short barrel 20mm)
190rpg type-99-II(long barrel 20mm)

have no check online but seem correct ^_^

Xiolablu3
02-10-2006, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:

To be blunt, it doesn't do anything better than a Ki-84. It's just another Japanese also-ran. Let me dogfight it against a Hellcat, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Errrm you arre never going to GET a better Jap plane than the Ki84, we dont want any more uber birds. It is not meant for dogfighting, its meant to get a lot of firepower as high as possible to destroy bombers.

this plane will be great in the historical maps against its contemporary foes. It gives the Japs a Fw190 'like' plane. Before all they had were turnfighters at this period.

Now thy have a chance to down the B17's online.

XyZspineZyX
02-10-2006, 05:28 AM
Very impressed by J2M3 so far. Quick question, this plane served with navy or army airforce?

jds1978
02-10-2006, 06:36 AM
IJA i believe.

neat plane.

alert_1
02-10-2006, 07:05 AM
I believe it was IJN plane, although used only from land based strips

Kocur_
02-10-2006, 07:13 AM
DEFINATELY a Imperial Japanese Navy land based interceptor.
All Japanese planes designated as LETTER NUMBER LETTER NUMBER are IJN's. Like A6M2 or J2M3 or D4Y2. First letter stnds for purpose, like A - carrier based fighter, J - land based fighter, D - dive bomber, E - recon floatplane, (correct me if its not precise enough), etc. First number stands for construction of certain purpose in the Navy, like before A6M Zero, there was A5M Claude. Second letter stands for company, which produced the plane, last number stands for version of the plane.
There was also another designation system in the IJN, used paralelly, but lets not get it all too confusing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Doug_Thompson
02-10-2006, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Errrm you arre never going to GET a better Jap plane than the Ki84, we dont want any more uber birds. It is not meant for dogfighting, its meant to get a lot of firepower as high as possible to destroy bombers.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No argument, Xiolablu3. My point is that it's not substantially different, either.

Some people like to fly Corsairs for power. Some like to fly Spitfires for nimbleness. There's a contrast between the two. People can make choices based on their styles and preferences.

I can't see anybody choosing a Raiden over a Ki-84 for anything except sentimental reasons or the firepower (assuming they want to acknowledge history and don't want to use the most heavily armed Frank.)

I'd have rather had a George.

Xiolablu3
02-11-2006, 12:35 AM
How will you take a ki84 in 1943 early 1944 maps?


Plus servers are starting to use limited numbers of planes which make maps even more historical. Once all those Ki84's have been destroyed you will have to use whats left. (a welcome addition in my opinion)

It was never historical to have whole maps of Ki84's, Doras and 109K4's.

I agree that the ki84 is a better plane but disagree totally that its an also ran. Isnt it the most popular WW2 plane in Japan? Or is that a different fighter&gt;? I know it was one that wasnt in Pacific fighters which caused a bit of an uproar.

Another thing, you say its 'another' Japanese also ran, which are the others???

Every Jap plane from the ki43 to the Betty is used extensively on the servers I play on. If you think everyone is flying ki84s,190D's and la7's then you need to find a better server.

Doug_Thompson
02-11-2006, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
How will you take a ki84 in 1943 early 1944 maps? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC, the Frank actually got into quantity service long before the Raiden did, because the Raiden had so many teething troubles.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Plus servers are starting to use limited numbers of planes which make maps even more historical. Once all those Ki84's have been destroyed you will have to use whats left. (a welcome addition in my opinion)

It was never historical to have whole maps of Ki84's, Doras and 109K4's.

I agree that the ki84 is a better plane but disagree totally that its an also ran. Isnt it the most popular WW2 plane in Japan? Or is that a different fighter&gt;? I know it was one that wasnt in Pacific fighters which caused a bit of an uproar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the Japanese Army Air Force settled on the Ki-84 as the best option and concentrated on it. It was the major JAAF fighter of the war by the time of the Philippine invasion, far more numerous than the Navy's Jack.

The Jack's development problems were so chronic, the Navy went ahead with the George, IIRC. The George wound up being a better fighter in the end anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Another thing, you say its 'another' Japanese also ran, which are the others??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Ki-100, which is a very nice plane to fly but which doesn't have the speed to catch the American spawn of Pratt and Whitney. The same could be said of the Ki-100's daddy, the Tony. Wonderful plane to fly. Can't catch a Hellcat, much less a Corsair or Mustang.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Every Jap plane from the ki43 to the Betty is used extensively on the servers I play on. If you think everyone is flying ki84s,190D's and la7's then you need to find a better server. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if I ever play online, I'll try.

Xiolablu3
02-11-2006, 10:17 AM
I agree about the ki100, I had forgotten about it. Noone uses it after the first few flights. Sorry, I took your post the wrong way, thinking you were calling the earlier war planes also rans because they werent competeive on the 1944-45 dogfight servers.

I am confused with these Georges and Jacks, which is George and which is Jack? I know the Jap names, not the Western names.

I can't believe you havent flown online, its where most of the fun is, do you not have a good net connection? You should come and play with us online sometime, there are servers with all sorts of settings and the feeling of escorting a flight of bombers to the enemies targets while they attack you in a fighters is just amazing. Its not just a big dogfight, there are objectives for each side.

Anyway, if you want to , you SHOULD try it soon, you wont look back. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kocur_
02-11-2006, 10:58 AM
"George" - Kawanishi N1K1J Shiden (redesigned from float-fighter N1K1 Kyofu "Rex",) and N1K2J Shiden Kai (redesigned previus, from mid wing to low wing)

"Jack" - Mitsubishi J2M Raiden.

Xiolablu3
02-11-2006, 11:18 AM
Thanks for that Kocur.

Which is the plane that the Japanese really wanted in the sim but was never there? I cant remember which one it was now.

It was a plane that 'symbolised' the struggle of WW2 a bit like the T34 for the Russians and the Spitfire for the British.

Can someone tell me which plane it was please? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 11:43 AM
it was a pain to deal with for yesterday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

i made a j2m3 (what does the 5 do different?) vs p47 coop, havent run it yet

and i made a intercept mission against b29's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

jds1978
02-11-2006, 02:48 PM
Geeze Fellas...can we stop typing J*p for Japanese...if you are too lazy to type it out use IJA/IJN as shorthand.

where i'm from J*p is definitely a racial slur

vocatx
02-11-2006, 02:53 PM
I really like the Ki-84, but the more time I get on the J2M3 the more I like it. I have found it to be fast, manueverable, reasonably tough, and pretty well armed. I have been able to run down Corsairs and take them out, or TnB with Spit IXs and take them as well. I haven't tried it against other Spits, however. Yep, the better I get to know the J2M3, the better I like it.

Badsight.
02-11-2006, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
it was a pain to deal with for yesterday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

i made a j2m3 (what does the 5 do different?) vs p47 coop, havent run it yet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
we didnt get the m5 for good reason seeing how much fun the m3 model is

the m5 = much better climb & slightly faster at all alts . the m5 was the really good climbing Raiden

Willey
02-11-2006, 06:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
On first impressions its a Japanese Fw190A http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


This is after 3 flights tho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly that. But Oleg says it's the russian I-185 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Something in between. It turns better than a FW, and it climbs better, too. But the speeds are pretty much "A-5ish". It has not the super high roll rate at very high speeds, still it's very manoeuverable and can sustain quite some damage.

Willey
02-11-2006, 06:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Which is the plane that the Japanese really wanted in the sim but was never there? I cant remember which one it was now.

It was a plane that 'symbolised' the struggle of WW2 a bit like the T34 for the Russians and the Spitfire for the British.

Can someone tell me which plane it was please? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That must be the N1K1J Shiden, because of the lack of cockpit information. There is stuff for the N1K2 Shiden Kai though - and we were supposed to get it flyable. I just don't know when http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

RocketDog
02-11-2006, 07:24 PM
SaSQoN (who did the model) thinks it will be in the second payware expansion. The first will be the Pe-2 disk.

Cheers,

RocketDog.

Xiolablu3
02-11-2006, 07:44 PM
Sorry but I dont buy that Jap is a racial slur.

Brit, Scot, Aussie, Jap, German, its all the same.

Maybe its a racial slur for you, but not for me or where I come from, its just a shortening of Japanese. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Truly and honestly. I will however try ot stop using it if you think it will upset anyone.

fordfan25
02-11-2006, 10:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Sorry but I dont buy that Jap is a racial slur.

Brit, Scot, Aussie, Jap, German, its all the same.

Maybe its a racial slur for you, but not for me or where I come from, its just a shortening of Japanese. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Truly and honestly. I will however try ot stop using it if you think it will upset anyone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>some people throw a hissy over that. some times i think people just look for a resone to bi&#%. but any way just do like me and say japo. still short hand i even got to were i say japo over coms instead of ^&%$ ^%^% &*&^*&&(*&*&&^%%$%#$@#@# *)(*_)#&^$#*)( #(*&(*#&( . seems to be more effeciant http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

ImpStarDuece
02-11-2006, 11:15 PM
DON'T shorten it. Please.

Many Japanese are fine with it. Many are not. Some English speaking Japanese I know consider it as offensive as a particular 6 letter word for African-American.

I lived and worked in Japan for 14 months. No-one I knew would even countenance the thought of using the work "j*p" to describe the Japanese.

Daiichidoku
02-12-2006, 01:50 AM
gawd

if ya dont wanna type "japanese" or "japan"

then just use "J" or "jp" or "JP"

bloody 'ell, its not rocket science...its even shorter than using "jap", what else could you want?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Xiolablu3
02-12-2006, 02:33 AM
Maybe we could get Kenji to tell us if he thinks its an insult?

I would like to know actually. I will pm him and get him to answer this thread.

nakamura_kenji
02-12-2006, 06:04 AM
i no take insult but consider impolite, i thick skin be call many worse thing. i know people much would take insult jap/japo/nip ect. feel public much bad idea use many people able take wrong way no realise no mean anything plus seem impolite/rude. i no call american yank do i, no call scot jock same reason

back topic, hope help ^_^

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/mylittleraiden.jpg

j2m3 raiden morning no be also ran ^_^ climb nice dive nice, keep speed much well

9 kill online ^_^

engne overheat much low altude high you get better engine no overheat much when go high(5000+). i change 2nd stage 3000alt 80% mix 5000. always run rad 2 when i fly level, steep climb open radiator open + methanol mix. turn performance seem good give good warning when stoll, combat flap help lot seem i be able easy out turn f6f/p47/p51

Xiolablu3
02-12-2006, 07:16 AM
Thanks for that, it always helps to get the correct opinion from an actual person from the country in question. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I see, I understand 'Nip' is offensive and maybe Japo, but I thought 'Jap' was just short for Japanese, like 'Scot' for a Scottish person. Or 'Brit' for someone British.

I guess I had better stop saying it, sorry I honestly meant no offense by it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Thx for Raiden dial description.

Ruy Horta
02-12-2006, 09:38 AM
Why is Nip offensive?

Its just short for Nipon or Niponese, right?

Also if we stick to the parlance of the subject - WW2 Air Warfare - than scratching one Jap or Nip a/c is in style.

Sometimes PC can go to far...

We can virtually bomb and kill, but cannot say Nip, Jap, Nazi, Commie, Jerry, Tommy (Pommy, Limey), Yank, Ivan etc?

Like someone stated before, all equal Sxht to me ...

J_Anonymous
02-12-2006, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
DON'T shorten it. Please.

Many Japanese are fine with it. Many are not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am a Japanese citizen, although I emigrated to the U.S. years ago. Definitely I am not fine with the word.

I don't know of ANY Japanese citizens or Japanese Americans who say they are fine with such racial slurs as "Jap," "Nip" etc. Jap and Nip *ARE* racial slurs.

Some Japanese in Japan may say they are fine with it. But that's probably because they are ignorant and don't even know how the word has been used all around the world since the beginning of the 20th century. If you have any doubt, go and see the Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles, and learn how these racial slurs were used against our anciesters decades BEFORE the WW2 started. Jap and Nip have always been used as racial slurs at least for 100 years.

I recall Kenji-san once wrote he is a half Japanese with blue eyes or something. I must disagree with what he wrote above. It's not just a matter of "politeness." It's not just a matter of PC either. It's a matter of racial discrimination, plain and simple. O.K., in some parts of the world with no contact with us, maybe it is still considered OK to call us Jap. But now you are informed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some English speaking Japanese I know consider it as offensive as a particular 6 letter word for African-American.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That pretty much summarizes it. It's truly amazing to me some people still think in 21st century this is a debatable issue in a public forum. I wonder if they would also argue that using the 6-letter N-word is OK in this game, chat, or forum because historically the word was used during the WW2. I doubt the moderator or UBI would even allow such an argument here.

In fact, what are moderators doing? I am sure they won't tolerate the N-word. Why do they tolerate the J-word? I wish to know.

Back to the topic. J2M3 seems pretty good. It's fun to fly. N1K2 Shidenkai ought to be even better, because it was! But, am I the only one who has an impression that the canopy of AI Shidenkai is too small? I used to have a huge plastic model (scale 1/24 or 1/32, don't remember) and the style of N1K2 in this game looks somewhat awkward to me.

Xiolablu3
02-12-2006, 11:53 AM
Geezus, talk about being over the top.

You really need to come down to Earth mate. All the Japanese who are fine with the word are ignorant?? No mate, you are in a dream world, these guys are in the real world.

N*****R for black people is NOTHING like using a shortened version of Japanese, like Brit or Scot.

I dont know how you can even compare the two.

'The J word' what a load of c**p.

I have decided, the people who would be offended by this word are not the sort of people I would like to meet anyway as they are too stuck up. It is NOT a racial slur when I or many other people say it, it is an ABREVIATION.

Stop seeing things that arent there. I wasnt going to use it again, but reading your post makes me think that you need to hear it a few times and lighten up.

You see any Americans being offended by the 'Y' word? They are not so ridiculous and dont take themseleves that seriously!

Mr_Nakajima
02-12-2006, 11:56 AM
So there you have it - two out of two Japanese members of this forum find it offensive or impolite.

So don't use it.

If you are to busy to type 'Japanese' in full you really shouldn't be posting here anyway.

...and on the topic of the J2M3 - Wow! Always wanted to fly this one, I remember making a 1/32 scale model of it when I was about 12 and it has been one of my favourites ever since. Still not had time to get to grips with it fully yet (too many new goodies to fly, not enough time).

Thanks for the instrument guide nakamura_kenji, I'll be flying this one a lot over the next few weeks, just as often as I can.

Xiolablu3
02-12-2006, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Nakajima:
So there you have it - two out of two Japanese members of this forum find it offensive or impolite.

So don't use it.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree.

We re-enact two nations blowing the hell out of each other but its worse to use the word 'Jap' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

What a load of tosh.

Sorry for continuing with this but I feel so strongly that people are seing things that are not there that I cannot help myself. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I would say MOSTpeople who use the word SIMPLY USE IT AS AN ABBREVIATION, NOTHING to do with race. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Xiolablu3
02-12-2006, 12:26 PM
OK I should not have written the last 2 posts when I got back from the pub after 6 pints of lager. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Sorry. I will stop replying now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Mr_Nakajima
02-12-2006, 01:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Nakajima:
So there you have it - two out of two Japanese members of this forum find it offensive or impolite.

So don't use it.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree.

We re-enact two nations blowing the hell out of each other but its worse to use the word 'Jap' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

What a load of tosh.

Sorry for continuing with this but I feel so strongly that people are seing things that are not there that I cannot help myself. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I would say MOSTpeople who use the word SIMPLY USE IT AS AN ABBREVIATION, NOTHING to do with race. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you 100%, don't get me wrong Xiolablu. Most people just don't realise that the Japanese find it impolite/offensive, I certainly didn't until it was pointed out to me.

But having had it pointed out, its only good manners not to cause un-necessary offence. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 02:51 PM
far as i know the N word is ok to use among blacks IF your black, but not if your white.

i think the N word comes from the old racist times, and especialy the slave trade, thats why it grates. amoung others its like a brotherhood.

when the allies saw what the japanease could do, whatever the reasons and who did it, they considered the japanease tobe exterminated apon sight.

its just a word but its how u or others use the word. if i beated u up and called u a cucumber enough u would hate the word cucumber.

"hey cucumber!, ur face reminds me of the kebab i had last night and u smell like it did when it came out the other end!"

its just what we think the word means. theres a word ni ggerly or something which means poor, nothing todo with the other N word but it gets ppl in trouble http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

CD_kp84yb
02-12-2006, 02:58 PM
quote:
OK I should not have written the last 2 posts when I got back from the pub after 6 pints of lager

end of quote:

6 Pints?????? only 6??? man that was a short visit to the pub. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

J_Anonymous
02-12-2006, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think the N word comes from the old racist times, and especialy the slave trade, thats why it grates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Jap" and "Nip" also come from the old racist times, at least 4 decades prior to the WW2.

At the very beginning, in 19th century, "Jap" was probably nothing more than a shortened version of the full English word. But at the beginning of the 20th century, when Asian immigration reached its peak, the white population in the west coast of the U.S. and Canada began the campaign of racial hate against the Japanese and Chinese immigrants --- that is when these words definitely acquired racial overtone.

In the il-2 community, somehow many people have been misled to believe that these racists words originate from the WW2. That is incorrect.

LStarosta
02-12-2006, 03:53 PM
My black friends call me the "n-word". Should I be offended?

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 03:54 PM
ah k

J_Anonymous
02-12-2006, 04:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I would say MOSTpeople who use the word SIMPLY USE IT AS AN ABBREVIATION, NOTHING to do with race. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please read my initial post carefully, I am not disputing your claim that you or some other people don't mean it. I believe you. We are pretty much everywhere in U.S., Canada, and some countries in south America, but that's certianly not the case in Europe and some other parts of the world. I would not be surprised if some good folks are totally unaware of the meaning of the word in the rest of the world.

Having said that, it is probably wise of you to avoid using the word. Why? Because this will become more of your problem than ours. Here is a simple analogy. Suppose a friend of yours keeps using a racist word targeting a particular race group. You get embarassed by his behavior. But the friend says it is justifyable to use the word because he does not mean to offend anybody even though everybody else knows it is a racist word, and because from where he is from everybody uses the word. Do you want to be a friend of him? At least you would try to change his mind, but if he doesn't, maybe you would walk away from him. Remember, I am not the one who began to tell you to stop using the J-word in this thread.

You also stated that I am in a dream world, and the ignorant Japanese people are in the real world. Unfortunately, you are wrong. Everytime when politicians and dignitaries of other countries slip and utter the J-word, you will find a news paper article in Japan about the racist incident. You are lucky, you are not a politician or dignitary (I assume), you will not find your name in Japanese newspapers tomorrow.

As for the politically incorrect nature of this game --- blowing up others, you are absolutely right. And that's precisely why we should be respectful to each other in this game, don't you think? This is just a game. But once you bring in a word that was used to incite racial hate during the war, the game will no longer be an innocent game.

HerrGraf
02-12-2006, 09:54 PM
If I may insert my two centavos worth here. As many Japanese take the term as derogitory, try not to use it when online. If you must insist on using an abreviated version than put the period behind it to show that it is an abreviation and not a slur. "Jap." Personally I have never heard the term Yank as being derogitory. The spanish version was a derogitory word for the dirty north americans t who the latino populations felt came south just to rip them off.

Doug_Thompson
02-12-2006, 10:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can't believe you havent flown online, its where most of the fun is, do you not have a good net connection? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, I'm still on dial-up. I'll get cable sometime after I get four kids through college -- which will be about 14 more years. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif Thanks for the invite, though.

PikeBishop
02-13-2006, 04:12 AM
Dear All,

What is very interesting here is that no-one has complained about people trying to dictate to others about how they should behave........Clearly this is a good indicator that the MAJORITY do not see nicknames as a racial slur, but I for one OBJECT to being TOLD that a comment that I in my own country, I see as nothing at all, that I SHOULD see it as one. I'm afraid that the idea that because some people choose to be offended, that we should all agree with what they think is not on!.......What should I do.....feel insulted because some citizen of the U.S. calls me a Brit when I'm actually a Limey??
Best regards,
SLP

J_Anonymous
02-13-2006, 11:35 AM
"Choose to be offended"?! It's the other way around, isn't it? I am sure you will have a different opinion if you are on the RECEIVING END OF RACISM.

What is *REALLY* very interesting here is that some people insist there is nothing wrong in using a word known to be derogatory in the world. Their attitude is very uncourteous, to say the least. I don't want to sound cynical, but I have to wonder why they *CHOOSE* to offend us.

Since Olympic Games are under way, let's talk about how I.O.C., an organization that is at least as international as the Ubi forum, deals with this abbreviation issue. I.O.C. has always been using "JPN" as the abbreviation of Japan for decades, instead of "JAP". Why? Because they figured that's the right thing to do. JPN is as short as JAP, but never carried the derogatory meaning through the racists era starting from about 1905 through the WW2. As Daiichidoku suggested, there is even a shorter abbreviation, "JP" (used in, e.g. internet country code). Given these alternatives, why do they *CHOOSE* to use "JAP"? I have to wonder.

A "convenient excuse" employed by some folks is that, the word "Jap" would make the game more "immersive." Well, it is immersive only in the sense that the word "Jap" re-enacts the unapologetic racial hate towards us in the early 20th century. Why do you *CHOOSE* to re-enact it, and why only against the ethnic Japanese people? I have to wonder.

telsono
02-13-2006, 12:39 PM
In the US, if you work for the Federal Government and use the "J" word, you can be cited for an EEO complaint. My agency regulates the spread of the Japanese Beetle. The only authorized abbreviation we can use for this insect is "JB".

jds1978
02-14-2006, 03:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Dear All,

What is very interesting here is that no-one has complained about people trying to dictate to others about how they should behave........Clearly this is a good indicator that the MAJORITY do not see nicknames as a racial slur, but I for one OBJECT to being TOLD that a comment that I in my own country, I see as nothing at all, that I SHOULD see it as one. I'm afraid that the idea that because some people choose to be offended, that we should all agree with what they think is not on!.......What should I do.....feel insulted because some citizen of the U.S. calls me a Brit when I'm actually a Limey??
Best regards,
SLP </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


sorry you missed the point. Anyways, welcome to the 21st century

xiolablu: i didn't intend to come across so mean. i could've stated my point in a more diplomatic way. accept my apology.

BigKahuna_GS
02-14-2006, 04:53 AM
S!

Jeez---Get back to talking about the Raiden http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

WOLFMondo
02-14-2006, 05:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 609IAP_Kahuna:
S!

Jeez---Get back to talking about the Raiden http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er...OK. Its ****, it falls apart on 400mph dives.

It feels horribly limited to its poorly built airframe that just wants to come apart under any stress. Like all Japanese planes, I feel like a target which will break apart from something as slight as a sneeze in the cockpit, thats if my plane doesn't get set on fire by a rogue .50 cal tracer.

Hows that Kahuna?

nakamura_kenji
02-14-2006, 05:17 AM
you joke yes? hit 878kph(545mph) dive + survive pull out when try dive test not know break up speed but guess close as plane much shake ^_^

think confuse j2m3 with a6m

ForkTailedDevil
02-14-2006, 06:21 AM
Yeah I agree with Kenji I have dove well over 400mph in the J2M.

WOLFMondo
02-14-2006, 06:29 AM
Not confusing one with the other, they do look quite different. :P

joeap
02-14-2006, 07:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
A "convenient excuse" employed by some folks is that, the word "Jap" would make the game more "immersive." Well, it is immersive only in the sense that the word "Jap" re-enacts the unapologetic racial hate towards us in the early 20th century. Why do you *CHOOSE* to re-enact it, and why only against the ethnic Japanese people? I have to wonder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please although I agree with 100% about using the word and use Jpn or Jp myself, don't play the victim card for what happened 60 years ago (Japanese-Canadians and Americans excepted). It's not as if the racial hate sprang out of nowhere or was one-sided, how many immigrants in Japan? A Canadian (WASP) acquaintance of mine who married a lovely Japanese girl told me both his family and in-laws has no problems, but if he had been Chinese or Korean there would have been with her side of the family.


Ok, I'll leave that as my only contribution to that part of the thread.

So I like the J2M3 it has been a bit overshadowed what with the Tempest of mosquitos, Macchis and anteaters in this patch. But it is nice and a good bomber killer...what the IJN forces needed, I would say while not as good as a Shinden would be, still the IJA has their Hiens and Hayates while the Navy was stuck with the various Zeros. Nice addition, though I still prefer the Hiens or Zeros.

J_Anonymous
02-14-2006, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Anonymous:
A "convenient excuse" employed by some folks is that, the word "Jap" would make the game more "immersive." Well, it is immersive only in the sense that the word "Jap" re-enacts the unapologetic racial hate towards us in the early 20th century. Why do you *CHOOSE* to re-enact it, and why only against the ethnic Japanese people? I have to wonder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please although I agree with 100% about using the word and use Jpn or Jp myself, don't play the victim card for what happened 60 years ago (Japanese-Canadians and Americans excepted). It's not as if the racial hate sprang out of nowhere or was one-sided, how many immigrants in Japan? A Canadian (WASP) acquaintance of mine who married a lovely Japanese girl told me both his family and in-laws has no problems, but if he had been Chinese or Korean there would have been with her side of the family.


Ok, I'll leave that as my only contribution to that part of the thread.

So I like the J2M3 it has been a bit overshadowed what with the Tempest of mosquitos, Macchis and anteaters in this patch. But it is nice and a good bomber killer...what the IJN forces needed, I would say while not as good as a Shinden would be, still the IJA has their Hiens and Hayates while the Navy was stuck with the various Zeros. Nice addition, though I still prefer the Hiens or Zeros. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hello joeap, thank you for your comment. I was actually anticipating this kind of response. No, I do not pretend our anciesters were always right. I also know that there are always narrow minded people in any communities in any countries, and I don't concur. But I am afraid you are slightly missing the point. Racial discrimination I am forced to face from time to time is an on-going problem *today*. That's why I am raising my voice here. I have no intesion to whitewash the history. Or, are you telling me that I have to be responsible for all the past wrong doing of the Japanese race, and I must accept the unfair treatment and insults today even if they are based on genuine racism? I hope you are not. Do you think it is fair if we discriminate/insult white Canadians because of what early white settlers did to the first nations people? I certainly diffrentiate the historical facts and who contemporary citizens are. I have more Korean, Chinese, and Sigaporean friends than Japanese and white friends (After all, we are all in the same boat in north America, we are all in the receiving end of racism against Asians). My Asian friends and their families may have more reasons to hate us than most white people in this forum, but they never call us "Jap." They call us Japanese. The family of one of my Chinese friends suffered tremendously during Japanese occupation of Manchuria, but they call me Japanese. Would it be too much to ask everyone here to type J, JP, JPN, IJN, IJA, or Japanese, instead of "Jap"? The thing is, when someone types "Jap", there is no way for us to know whether it is based on genuine racial bigotry. I used to protest in on-line servers when I saw the 3 letters, but I gave up long ago. It's waste of my time, all I get in response is usually more hate-filled chat messages. Those who genuinely didn't mean "it" usually retract and apologyze right away, but sadly they are the minorities.

BTW, according to the recent statistics, more than 10% of all marriages in Tokyo and Osaka are between Japanese citizens and foreginers, many of whom are from neighborig Asian contries.

J_Anonymous
02-14-2006, 08:41 AM
Forgot to mention important things: Yes, joeap, I also found J2M3 Raiden is quite effective against bombers in medium to low altitudes. It's like a "poor man's Fw-190," if you will (literally). And I think Nakamura_Kenji is right, Raiden can take 850km in diving. I could escape from Bf-109 and Spit in dogfight servers by just diving or climbing. Raiden still burns well when gas tanks are hit, but the damage model to wings and fuselage seems more realistic. Unlike A6 Zero, we can see big holes and the structure inside. This finding makes me suspect that, although A6 Zero is indeed supposed to burn well, that was not the only reason why Zero burns so well and the fuselage easily break apart into two, in this game. If we look at the damage of Raiden, clearly more programming work was done.

joeap
02-14-2006, 09:01 AM
No no no!!I don't think it's alright to call people J*ps now, it sounds real bad to my ears too! I just was reacting to your words about that word being used in a racist way the early 20th century and I thought of the aggresion and war started by the military clique in Japan.

I was wrong now I recall the word was used by whites long before the war against Japanese immigrants to BC (where I am from) and California. There was racism against Chinese and other Asians too, correct, glad it is not the case now among your fellow Asians. Heck I am Greek-Canadian and had a wonderful time in Turkey last year, the Turks are actually very nice people. If I was not clear please accept my apology J-anonymous-san.

Good points about the Raiden...Jpn http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif tech has often been underestimated from this period. Well it was mixed, the Zero was probably kept in production too long...for the Navy the Long Lance torpedo and the carrier force was superb but Yamato and Musashi (wonderful though they were) wasted steel...the Army had poor tanks compared to the Allies, yet the infantry were very good in offensive operations early in the war.

I agree the Raiden got a more detailed damage model...

J_Anonymous
02-14-2006, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
No no no!!I don't think it's alright to call people J*ps now, it sounds real bad to my ears too! I just was reacting to your words about that word being used in a racist way the early 20th century and I thought of the aggresion and war started by the military clique in Japan.

I was wrong now I recall the word was used by whites long before the war against Japanese immigrants to BC (where I am from) and California. There was racism against Chinese and other Asians too, correct, glad it is not the case now among your fellow Asians. Heck I am Greek-Canadian and had a wonderful time in Turkey last year, the Turks are actually very nice people. If I was not clear please accept my apology J-anonymous-san.

Good points about the Raiden...Jpn http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif tech has often been underestimated from this period. Well it was mixed, the Zero was probably kept in production too long...for the Navy the Long Lance torpedo and the carrier force was superb but Yamato and Musashi (wonderful though they were) wasted steel...the Army had poor tanks compared to the Allies, yet the infantry were very good in offensive operations early in the war.

I agree the Raiden got a more detailed damage model... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you aren't getting too much rain these days. Rain may be better than snowy nor'easter (it's freezing here).

Philipscdrw
02-15-2006, 07:11 AM
It's simple really...

People are free to say whatever they like.

But if using a certain expression will cause needless offense, then don't use it!

It's not 'politically correct' to avoid using the offensive abbreviation, it's just respectful and polite.

Kuna_
02-20-2006, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
It's simple really...

People are free to say whatever they like.

But if using a certain expression will cause needless offense, then don't use it!

It's not 'politically correct' to avoid using the offensive abbreviation, it's just respectful and polite. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Now when that's been resolved, let's get back to J2M talk. Personally it seems like a fine plane but unfortunately it's ammo runs out fast. Good part is that it also packs a really good punch. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

J_Anonymous
02-20-2006, 08:29 AM
Yeah, I agree. A major problem of J2M3 I've noticed is easy overheating of the engine. Has anybopdy figured out how to avoid engine overheating issues? When I have a prolonged dogfight on the deck, I sometimes lose the engine thrust, probably the signature of fried engine (but it could be just that I received a few hits in engine compartment). What's really nice is, even in that situation, we still can ditch (very tough plane, and easy to land), or keep fighting until the bitter end --- unlike A6 Zero, no need to give up the fight.

Another question, does anybody know at which altitude we are supposed to switch the turbo-charger and mixture. I knew nothing about complex engine management until recently, any suggestions highly appreciated.

JG53Frankyboy
02-20-2006, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
It's simple really...

People are free to say whatever they like.

But if using a certain expression will cause needless offense, then don't use it!

It's not 'politically correct' to avoid using the offensive abbreviation, it's just respectful and polite. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Now when that's been resolved, let's get back to J2M talk. Personally it seems like a fine plane but unfortunately it's ammo runs out fast. Good part is that it also packs a really good punch. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

190/210 rounds are not enough ?!?!?!?!

Slickun
02-20-2006, 11:29 AM
Fellas, I don't want to offend anybody. Truly.

If a guy on here says a term I use offends him, I'll quit. Easy as that.

BTW, JPN planes are sure fun to fly.