View Full Version : To zoom or not to zoom...

10-21-2007, 05:56 AM
...that is the question.

Is the zoom function (gunsight - wide) a useful uber-sniper's tool or a crutch for noobs?

10-21-2007, 05:56 AM
...that is the question.

Is the zoom function (gunsight - wide) a useful uber-sniper's tool or a crutch for noobs?

10-21-2007, 06:05 AM
Fair compensation for the shortcomings of CG, low end monitors etc. Compared to RL visibility.

Dont see how "noobs" get into this subject.

If You'd said WWV, padlock , outside views etc. I'd agree.

When flying "full switch" ,how else are you supposed to read the instruments?

10-21-2007, 06:12 AM
Dont use it and I will noob you to death. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I got it assigned as a two part command on me X-52. When I press the button I get GunSight View, release and I go back ot normal view. Of course, you should DF in wide view.

Peace Out

10-21-2007, 06:49 AM
Id say "critch for noobs" is a bit strong.. more like a legitimate feature if you ask me.

10-21-2007, 07:10 AM
i used to use it...wel sometimes its pretty handy..but recently i decided to use a different way to shoot. As i want to learn to use .50cals i set convergence to 150 or 200m. So you dont use any zomm but you start shooting when you see "all the details" of the ennemy plane in front of you. So i dont use zoom and i wait till i see really good the plane in front of me. Its a way to shoot that i find really efficent as you are forced to go near your target and this way .50 cal become really deadly...but its a question of taste

10-21-2007, 07:27 AM
i dont use it for shooting that much, mostly becouse i only fly bombers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif , but if i do the guy will fill my windscreen when i open fire, and yeah i am a bad shoot http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

And as Don_X says, i use it to read the instruments, and id planes faster

10-21-2007, 07:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Id say "critch for noobs" is a bit strong.. more like a legitimate feature if you ask me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would tend to agree with you, Bearcat. Those were the words of a much more skillful than I, but somewhat opinionated acquaintance.

This view is also supported however in the 'In Pursuit' guide (an amazing work in my opinion), where the author says;

"And finally, another tip to improve your gunnery: don't use your zoomed in gunsight view (if any) but use your normal forward view when closing in to guns range. This will allow you to get closer, i.e. not fool you into thinking that you're closer than you actually are, it will help you avoid tailgating the bandit and makes it easier to gauge speeds and vectors in the guns solution. If you're addicted to the zoomed in view already it will take some unlearning, but once you free yourself of the zoomed view your kill rate is likely to skyrocket."

This makes sense to me, and also agrees with Fighterducks comments above.
Currently, I have my hatswitch set to allow me to quickly zoom in and out.
I am still quite inexperienced with the sim, however and want to ensure that I'm not 'addicting' myself to any bad habits.

10-21-2007, 08:02 AM
Actually, I use the gunsite view most of the time and zoom it in and out. Zoomed out, it gives you a much better rear view then the wide view at any zoom. If I feel safe from behind (rarely if ever) I may switch to wide view.

10-21-2007, 08:11 AM
Useful function I'd say. The wide view actually makes things smaller than they should be to compensate for the limited field of view a monitor offers. The "uber-sniper" zoom view is actually closer to the proper size things should be.

A WWII gunsight would be maybe 10cm or so wide in real life (anyone got actual dimensions?). How wide is it when you are in wide FOV, how wide in zoomed FOV? The cockpit objects actually still seem a little smaller than they'd be in real life even when zoomed in (at least on the 19"LCD I use).

And like people said, reading the gauges in wide FOV doesn't work so well either. Zoom comes in handy there.

Also, using zoomed FOV offers the disadvantage that it causes you to focus on a smaller area of the sky, resulting in less situational awareness. You can get target fixated and become an easier target yourself if you're not careful.

Besides, if the zoom view were really a crutch there'd be a toggle switch in the difficulty settings to turn it off (like padlock, no pit, icons, etc.)

10-21-2007, 09:21 AM
Zoom view is incredibly useful when looking for and attacking ground targets. In no way is it a crutch or for the noob.

In fact, I would recommend against it for the noob as with inexperience it can be mislead you with regard to closure rates and distance.

10-21-2007, 09:35 AM
yop for ground target its very usefull...thought i use it also to find airfiels where to lanb bacause in snowy map or in desert if there are no light its hard to see them.

10-21-2007, 10:29 AM
It seems that there is a general consensus that the zoom is extremely useful and valid for reading instruments, spotting/engaging ground targets and airfield and AC Idents at range.

The main question mark as I see it is in regards to air-to-air gunnery.
Is it better to get used to gunning in wide view as opposed to zooming in?

10-21-2007, 11:25 AM
Depends on the situation but zoom is very useful for gunnery. Not for quick snap shots but for gunnery of a target already in your gunsight it can be useful.

It makes up for lack of focusing ability of a monitor/game interface. The human eye is still better than what we see on the screen and it does it all at once in one contiguous image rather than having to "swap views".

10-21-2007, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonGrantoven:

The main question mark as I see it is in regards to air-to-air gunnery.
Is it better to get used to gunning in wide view as opposed to zooming in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd say it depends on the situation. Against bombers or slower maneuvering targets zoom is useful because you can more easily make the fine adjustments to your shots to hit critical spots.

In a dogfight against hard maneuvering targets it is not as useful because it is very easy for the target to move out of your field of view. If you are flying without icons or padlock you might lose sight of the target against the terrain when this happens. Also being so focused in leads to tunnel vision. You are totally fixated on the target and don't have enough peripheral vision to see other enemies moving in to attack you.

So I tried to get used to shooting on normal or wide field of view. I figure if my aim is good there, it will still be good in situations where I can zoom in.

10-22-2007, 06:30 PM
Zooming in is not a cheat. In fact, because your monitor is likely to be at such a distance from your eyes that it subtends about a 30 degree wide apparent angle, the max zoom setting of 30 degrees is actually a TRUE representation of the apparent size of on-screen elements! Therefore the widest FOV of 90 degrees is more like 1/3 true scale--with the pixellation of the display, that's actually a handicap as far as resolution goes.

So zooming in is completely valid.

As for zooming in during gunnery, you do it all the time when you use the telescopic sight-equipped planes like the Val, early Ki's, etc. The tele sights are represented at pretty much the same 30 degree FOV as the other gun sight pictures.

And yes, I am often zoomed in while firing, especially at bombers or other mildly- or non-evading targets. Actually, more nimble planes at distances beyond ~300m get the zoomed-in treatment, too.

10-22-2007, 06:49 PM
I use zoom all the time whilst flying.
No idea wether it affects my gunnery or not, but it has become a habit anyway.
I have it "makroed" to the little slider on the X-52s throttle, works great.

10-23-2007, 09:40 AM
I gun zoomed in most of the time and find it incredibly useful. While I'm zoomed in my hit percentages skyrocket to about 22% - 25%, while when I'm zoomed out they rarely break 15%. When you're flying planes that are solely MG's, like the P-40's, Italian planes, or planes with only a few guns, like Yaks, that hit percentage is extremely important.

10-23-2007, 09:46 AM
Tne "Zoom" view as you say is what reasemble more our natural vision.... the "unzoomed" views are due to monitor limitations....

So yes it is a very usefull view....

10-23-2007, 09:56 AM
If we had peripheral vision ingame I'd fly zoomed most of the time. I can read instruments, identify A/c easier, and shoot better when zoomed.

Zooming is hardly a crutch at all.

10-23-2007, 11:26 AM
When I boom I certainly zoom, for to zoom is devine.
I have my zoom buttons set to repeat so I can step my FOV smoothly.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-23-2007, 11:48 AM
I use my different gunsight views prodigiously. I use "zoom" to ID ground targets, I use zoom to ID aircraft, but rarely use it to fire on anything but can't say "never".

I also use wide view to look over my shoulder. It allows me to see just a bit past the vertical stab as opposed to just short of it without using it. Is that an exploit? I'd say no. It's compensation for not having the ability to move my head around in my cockpit...like I could if I had 6dof.