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StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 07:32 AM
http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=005391;p=0

It seems like the cheating and UFO claims of some people are not so far fetched. Read the thread at SimHQ. The code of IL2 has been cracked.

An anti-cheat feature is in the works, but it will not be in 4.06 but in 4.07.

I hope this won't hurt the community. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 07:32 AM
http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=005391;p=0

It seems like the cheating and UFO claims of some people are not so far fetched. Read the thread at SimHQ. The code of IL2 has been cracked.

An anti-cheat feature is in the works, but it will not be in 4.06 but in 4.07.

I hope this won't hurt the community. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

VF-17_BOOM
07-01-2006, 07:43 AM
This can't be good for online play http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Brain32
07-01-2006, 07:44 AM
Yes I saw that, I would like to see some official comments on that matter...

Chuck_Older
07-01-2006, 07:46 AM
Let the hysteria begin.......NOW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously folks, let's keep our wits about us

DuxCorvan
07-01-2006, 07:47 AM
It will hurt online gaming for sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

A worth punishment for not caring about us offline buffs at all since AEP. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Take that!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 07:49 AM
Take a look at the speedbar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
And some additional Werfergranaten as well...

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3159/cheat8jn.jpg

Jasko76
07-01-2006, 07:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
Take a look at the speedbar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
And some additional Werfergranaten as well...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this for real? I mean, no photoshop involved? How the hell are they doing this?

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 07:55 AM
The games ressources are stored in the .sfs files.
Those are encrypted. But obviously this encryption was cracked.

Here is some more cheating. Click on the "free" button and download the track:

http://rapidshare.de/files/24550707/111.rar.html

Chuck_Older
07-01-2006, 07:56 AM
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">PEOPLE: we are adults here. Let's get some fact- for-sure fact, not guesses and accusations or stories- before we decide that the sky has fallen. Spreading panic is NOT going to help</span>

triggerhappyfin
07-01-2006, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF-17_BOOM:
This can't be good for online play http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but kickin still possible? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

x6BL_Brando
07-01-2006, 07:59 AM
The sad part is that there will be people who will use this - either as cheats or as 'improvers'. The comments in the link are surprising, in that a lot of people seem to have started justifying why they would use it, rather than just condemning online cheating outright.

Maybe it's a sign of the times, but it's sad to see hackers being praised for their 'cleverness'.

"Ooh look, mister, I just smashed the window of your car & stole your radio - aren't I clever?"

You can be clever & an ***hole at the same time - simple multi-tasking. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

B.

Brain32
07-01-2006, 08:03 AM
OMG Schlachter where did you find that pic?
This is really BAD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

F19_Ob
07-01-2006, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">PEOPLE: we are adults here. Let's get some fact- for-sure fact, not guesses and accusations or stories- before we decide that the sky has fallen. Spreading panic is NOT going to help</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right....lets investigate it and do what we can to help.
We perhaps should have a stickie where we gather what we find out about this matter.
Although rumors now it might get quite serious for the sim if we just ignore it.
The time Oleg and team has to put in to investigate the matter and re-wrighting stuff (if need) may also cost us.

SeaFireLIV
07-01-2006, 08:08 AM
Heard about it. No confirmation on the truth of this yet. I was always a little amazed that IL2 has lasted so long without being cracked, knowing every other onnline game was usually broken in 6 months.

It maybe good for offline play as maybe some stuff could be worked on like AI and other features, but my belief is online will become a quagmire of who`s using what Mod. And then of course you have to have an eye open for the cheaters, and they WILL come ... the ones that zoom past your me262 in an I16 are not the real worry, as they can be easily spotted and kicked, but the sneaky ones who make the little changes that just gives them the edge are the ones who are the greatest danger.

Whatever, from now one everyone will be accusing everyone of cheating whenever they get shot down. The paranoia will be rampant.

Sad news. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif


But Oleg`s BOB is up soon! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
07-01-2006, 08:09 AM
Sad news indeed. We'll see if this is true. TBH the FW190 picture looks like a Photoshop job.

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Heard about it. No confirmation on the truth of this yet. I was always a little amazed that IL2 has lasted so long without being cracked, knowing every other onnline game was usually broken in 6 months.

It maybe good for offline play as maybe some stuff could be worked on like AI and other features, but my belief is online will become a quagmire of who`s using what Mod. And then of course you have to have an eye open for the cheaters, and they WILL come ... the ones that zoom past your me262 in an I16 are not the real worry, as they can be easily spotted and kicked, but the sneaky ones who make the little changes that just gives them the edge are the ones who are the greatest danger.

Whatever, from now one everyone will be accusing everyone of cheating whenever they get shot down. The paranoia will be rampant.

Sad news. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif


But Oleg`s BOB is up soon! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The encryption was broken like 2 years ago, but it was not possible to recompile the SFS files until now as it seems.

I hope BOB uses a different kind of protection.

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 08:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Sad news indeed. We'll see if this is true. TBH the FW190 picture looks like a Photoshop job. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at the track of the La-5 that i posted. It is definetly possible to cheat.

JG52Uther
07-01-2006, 08:12 AM
Would explain some of the stuff we see in online wars.Looks like closed coops will be more popular now.

Platypus_1.JaVA
07-01-2006, 08:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Would explain some of the stuff we see in online wars.Looks like closed coops will be more popular now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and offline campaigns too... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

knightflyte
07-01-2006, 08:29 AM
Well, it's ABOUT time...... It's only been six years.

I personally think the pictures a fake..... a decent Photoshop markup.

As mentioned NO ONE is going to fly that online and have nobody notice it. Plus if your gonna cheat you want to be subtle. (unless you're bragging you broke the code, in which case you go into the most popular server and strut your stuff.)

I don't fly online enough to be 100% certain, but I seriously doubt the codes been broken.

Brain32
07-01-2006, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> This is endgame be sure, but it was really good 'till it lasted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm completely confident that they can fix that with ease, so I don't see it as a game ender I would just like to hear some official explanations/comments...

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 08:42 AM
The game will check the files for their size with 4.07. I heard ROSS_Youss is programming the anti-cheat tool.

But for now it is possible to cheat. Maybe it is just some crazy marketing ploy to make the VVS add-on more popular http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

tigertalon
07-01-2006, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
Here is some more cheating. Click on the "free" button and download the track:

http://rapidshare.de/files/24550707/111.rar.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Can this be scripted in a ntrk file??

anarchy52
07-01-2006, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
I heard ROSS_Youss is programming the anti-cheat tool.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
I heard ROSS_Youss is programming the anti-cheat tool.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought the same thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Brain32
07-01-2006, 09:08 AM
Care to share your thoughts with us that are unaware? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 09:12 AM
Nah, i heared rumors about this guy. Ask the people in Hyperlobby. Let's say he was accused of cheating more than one time.

If he really gets his hands on the code an MG want him to write an anti-cheat routine for IL2 it is a little bit like making the wolf the shepperd if you know what i mean...

LStarosta
07-01-2006, 09:21 AM
yo were can i get this??// http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

kthx

LoL, it's a clever marketing tactic, really.

If people want to fly without having to worry about cheaters, then they'll have to buy 4.07. But to get 4.07 to work, they need to buy 4.05 and 4.06. All the while Ubi and 1C reel in the dough.

Obi_Kwiet
07-01-2006, 09:27 AM
As long as they releace a patch that fixes it, it won't really be a bad thing. That way movie makers and the like will have a lot more freedom, and the online players will simply host the new secure version.

heywooood
07-01-2006, 09:30 AM
I can't stop laughing...ow my sides.

Love DuxCorvans 'serves 'em right' angle...


Offline is best, be sure.

onwhiners fear of 'cheaters' is precious and huge.

Oleg? what is the truth? are we aggressivly marketing 4.07 as the anti-cheat?

M/S - are you playing with your chief rivals' customer base again?

Community - did you forget to take your meds again?...

lol

LeOs.K_Walstein
07-01-2006, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Let the hysteria begin.......NOW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I`m in! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Panic-struck
Wallstein

Tator_Totts
07-01-2006, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:


Whatever, from now one everyone will be accusing everyone of cheating whenever they get shot down. The paranoia will be rampant.

Sad news. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif


But Oleg`s BOB is up soon! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes this will be true. Back with MSCF2 I was flying the Corsair against a Zeke and when I shot him down he claimed I was cheating. He was a friend to a moderator and had me banned for two weeks. And here I was using a default install only playing game for one week.

Man I hope we do not have witch hunts like that.

waffen-79
07-01-2006, 11:06 AM
I frikking knew it!!!!!

That Spit25lbs had something wrong, everybody has been cheating http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

slipBall
07-01-2006, 11:19 AM
In other games, that had their code hacked, how long did it take to become widespread in use?
Probably if it is true, cracked, very few are using it right now.
Not that being limited to a few is a good thing

LStarosta
07-01-2006, 11:37 AM
http://www.abba-world.net/images/singles/money_tk.jpg

waffen-79
07-01-2006, 11:53 AM
I just saw the track 111.ntrk

the La-5

goes up in a vertical till 2000m with only 170km/h

Is that normal??????

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 11:55 AM
Yes, it is called cheating http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Freelancer-1
07-01-2006, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:
I just saw the track 111.ntrk

the La-5

goes up in a vertical till 2000m with only 170km/h

Is that normal?????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had to watch that three times to believe what I was seeing.

As a regular Lavotchkin driver, let me tell you...

Definitly NOT normal.

Note the speed at take off. Holy sh1t!!!

You can't get a frikkin' Gladiator off the ground at that speed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

And dropping the gear at 400+ KPH with no problems???

AKA_TAGERT
07-01-2006, 12:17 PM
I wouldnt get my pantys in a wad just yet.. Probally just some nub that turned all the realism options off and recorded a track.

A simply check some routine of the SFS files fix this.. I wouldnt be suprised if it is not in there allready! As a test I think I do a test, open up a SFS file.. any one and use a HEX editor to change one value. Than see if while the game boots up if it detets it.. If not then go online and see if it detects it.

If neither, than all Oleq would have to do is add a simply check sum of the SFS files at boot up time. If they dont match, you dont boot up. Then as a double check, in that the local could be hacked too, also have the server do a check a check of the users SFS files before they are allowed to log in. In that the hacker can not mess with the servers SFS check sum routine.

All in all it would add more time to the log in online, and put bigger demands on the server.. but beats cheating which will kill this sim in less than a week

carguy_
07-01-2006, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
The game will check the files for their size with 4.07. I heard ROSS_Youss is programming the anti-cheat tool. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

_VR_ScorpionWorm
07-01-2006, 01:21 PM
I only fly with my squadmates so I could care less if this thing has been cracked already. Too many ego maniacs out there, why should I waste my time on those that can't fly this sim properly and 'adjust' the aircraft to what they think it should be. Much like all the whiners about blue and red side.(on certain arguements not all)

BfHeFwMe
07-01-2006, 01:37 PM
Was wondering why it was taking so long to release the Russian release in Russia. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

LEBillfish
07-01-2006, 02:01 PM
For some time there have been "cheats" that I have witnessed........Yet few times have I seen them clearly (though cheaters often will just hedge it slightly, so it is not obvious....)

One Ex.......I fly the Ki-61 a LOT...Odd huh? Anywho, 4 guys from a particular squadron take the 4 behind me.....Now I fly the Ki-61 to its limits, and was climbing hard....At 1km alt. I look back and see the last guy taking off.....However, by the time I had reached 1.5 km, they were all at 3. Then swooped down, pulled in formation losing all e as I was still climbing hard at 200km/h....and proceeded to literally loop their planes arond me then passed me zipping back up to high alt at a rather rediculous ROC.

How I have no idea.....Yet being everyone in this squadron did the same...yet no one else could. Well draw your own conclusions....

It's inevitable....Yet your only recourse when it is "clearly" blatantly cheating is to simply exclude those folks from your play.......Sad but true, where in most work hard to develop their skills, others work just as hard to cheat. Nothing new, and will never go away....It's just nice 1c makes an effort to stop it.

Don't sweat it....Cheaters are p******..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and the second they do you already won no matter the outcome.

T_O_A_D
07-01-2006, 02:42 PM
It is enevitable, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Once it was released to others outside of MG for addons like PF and the upcoming ww1 Knights of the sky from http://www.gennadich.com/ (Looking forward to that development) Some W@nker is going to leak it to the wrong soul. It's all too often human nature to be a turd. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
This is not the first time Youss has been involved in a cheat conspiracy either. Probably not the last either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Stackhouse25th
07-01-2006, 03:19 PM
in

Xiolablu3
07-01-2006, 03:35 PM
Some ROSS guys came to the server I was playing on the other day and were shot down time after time. I was never shot down and we shot all 3 of them down in FW190D9's. Our flak did help a bit, we were fighting over our troops. They were obviously just messing about tho.

If they do cheat they are very very bad at it.

They seemed OK to fly with to be honest, freindly and chatted. I am surprised to hear reports of their dishonesty by members??

ROSS_Drakon even said hi to me when he entered the server.

StG2_Schlachter
07-01-2006, 03:39 PM
ROSS is a very big squad. They have like 100 members. There are only a few black sheep.
Most of them are just damn good pilots.

Taylortony
07-01-2006, 03:46 PM
will ubi not be able to alter the code in the next patch and more or less null and void this prats efforts?

Xiolablu3
07-01-2006, 03:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
ROSS is a very big squad. They have like 100 members. There are only a few black sheep.
Most of them are just damn good pilots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh, OK mate thx.

I never noticed them before that day actually, it was only around a week ago.

If this turns out to be true, I would expect to see a small free patch to be released quick to fix it. Would be simple to do and release.

slipBall
07-01-2006, 03:54 PM
Have to defeat those spits somehow, enigma http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/enigma.jpg

danjama
07-01-2006, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
I heard ROSS_Youss is programming the anti-cheat tool.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought the same thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

vocatx
07-01-2006, 04:25 PM
Xiolablu, I too have flown with and against Drakon and a couple of his squadmates. He is a nice, upstanding fellow. But, as some have mentioned, not all of the ROSS guys are like him.

danjama
07-01-2006, 04:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vocatx:
Xiolablu, I too have flown with and against Drakon and a couple of his squadmates. He is a nice, upstanding fellow. But, as some have mentioned, not all of the ROSS guys are like him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but their cheating days were a long time ago, i dont think they do "it" anymore (whatever it is in the first place)

LEBillfish
07-01-2006, 04:43 PM
For the record I was NOT speaking of the Ross_ Squadron.

triggerhappyfin
07-01-2006, 04:51 PM
Cheat or not...I couldnt tell the difference http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif I'll just die as usuall.

AKA_TAGERT
07-01-2006, 05:50 PM
show me a track file of a I16 out running a Me262 in level flight and than and only than will I think there is a problem.. Because showing me something I can do now by simply turning off the realism options is nothing to get worked up about IMHO.

Brain32
07-01-2006, 05:54 PM
Can you do this?
http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/il2-morane.avi

3.80MB of really funky stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
07-01-2006, 06:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
Can you do this?
http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/il2-morane.avi

3.80MB of really funky stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry.. dont have the codec for it.. And what with all the codec spyware **** out Im not going to get it. So.. is it a vid of a IL2 out running a Me262?

tigertalon
07-01-2006, 06:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
Can you do this?
http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/il2-morane.avi

3.80MB of really funky stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Brain32
07-01-2006, 06:05 PM
No it's a vid of Morane406 with Brewster cockpit, and the guy poped out of the plane runned around it, then got back in and flew away, my jaw is still on the floor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I found it here: http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....c;f=144;t=005391;p=3 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=005391;p=3)

Read the post of a guy named Kegetys...

tigertalon
07-01-2006, 06:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Because showing me something I can do now by simply turning off the realism options is nothing to get worked up about IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO it was not done with realism off. Takeoff was way to short... Maybe a ntrk file can be scripted?

slipBall
07-01-2006, 06:21 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifMe too!
all is lost

DuxCorvan
07-01-2006, 06:22 PM
Welcome to the club. We offliners know ridiculous cheaters very well. We call them AI.

BTW, it was just a matter of time. That it has lasted so long, it's a proof of Maddox Games encrypting abilities.

Size checking is easy to pass with careful editing.

Online wars will be interesting with all Blues and Reds 'tuning' their mounts as they think they should be. Star Wars unleashed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Badsight-
07-01-2006, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
The code of IL2 has been cracked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>im sorry ?

whats all the fuss ?

you are only 3 years too late

back in 2003 this was already announced here at this forum . . . . .

Badsight-
07-01-2006, 06:35 PM
the only thing that can make this not good for online is :

can they re-compile the game code with their changes back as the same version

apparently this hasnt been possible , i said "apparently"

the actions BillFish described are similer to the speed-hack

i will copy & paste the comments posted back in 2003 , just wish i had copied the guys login & dates posted - possibility you could do a search on it

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Actually, your professor is correct.

It's closed code - already compiled, which means you'd need the keycodes and programs they used to uncompile it.

Unlike a lot of games, such as Half Life, they didn't leave any "hooks" out there to let you grab into the code - which is why you can't mod IL-2.

Indeed, there aren't any "cheat codes" as they didn't give the user the console that developers use to test things (as in the case of the HL and other game engines.

This is also why 1C:Maddox doesn't license their engine to other companies - to do so would require handing over all of the source code in a manner that would unlock all of the secrets.

This is also why the theft of some of the source code to Half Life 2 is such a big deal - it's worth millions of dollars to keep the core of it secure.

The cheats of many games are allowed because it's the same thing that makes it profitable - the ability to manipulate the code.

It's just different business models and ideas behind how to make money and handle your product.

The CFS series, for example, was built to be modded. The want you to change things around - and don't give a hat if you put AMRAMS on the Wright Flyer!

1C:Maddox, however, went a different direction. They wanted something as accurate as they could make it and didn't want any poxy user mods ruining it.

The upside is that when you go online to fly, it's a level field as far as the FM/DM goes. No "wall hacks" or "improving" your plane (such as the DR1 that can do mach 2 with bullets the size of Mac Trucks in RB3D).

The downside is that the only additions that are going to go in there must come from the developers.

Fortunately, 1C:Maddox is unmatched in dedication to their customers, adding FREE content - planes, maps, ground objects and refining the sim with better responsiveness than many companies that do the same and charge for it.

The best you can do is try and EXPLOIT weaknesses in the existing code, which is different than "cheating."

We've all seen it - the "Print Screen cheat" where someone presses the print screen key a zillion times to induce lag (since fixed) and the "disconnect the connection cheat" which does the same thing (since fixed as well, as you'll now be booted from the server for bad connections that resemble this effect - though, unfortunately, the default message is "cheating detected," which is most often NOT the case), and the engine off/engine on exploit in IL-2 that cooled your engine to pre-start levels (long since fixed).

Too many checks on the server side as well even if you could get into the code.


Crazyivan wrote

"
In the java vs C++ it`s not only syntax mate... quiet a few concepts too.
"

Quite true, although in the case of FB.. I think key concept of 'platform' (i.e.VMs) that underpin Java are probably only used for the UI or the FMB or other non-realtime tasks.

The majority of game core is compiled and exists as DLLs.. at this stage, the language, be it c++ or Java, (possibly J++) is indeed a purely syntactic issue.

I've coded in Java, C++, VB.. etc.. for years. These days, you use a hybrid of langauges to implement a project of any complexity and use their strengths and weaknesses where appropriate. In the MS world.. COM (and other incarnations like COM+ / ActiveX ) glues it all together.

I know this from using NewView, which registers a DLL which implements input control interfaces that FB has been designed to surrogate the implementation of. I think this was originally conceived for TrackIR support as it needs the trackIR flag setting in the conf.ini file to know to go look elsewhere for the DLL.

So your all kinda correct anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regarding cheating, I dont beleive it is possible unless the game objects are exposing the necessary interfaces to the outside world for 3rd party "cheat code" to hook to and I doubt the game core has done that as it would be an explicit and concious choice.

Even if someone hacked a DLL or other game object, which is still possible, (although highly unlikey due to the effort vs trade-off).. It doesn't necessarily mean it would work if the server, or other players didn't have the same hack itself as the physics models and game state data would get out of sync. If it ever happened.. utilities like PunkBuster (used on many FPS game server) would soon follow to detect it.

Regards </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

danjama
07-01-2006, 06:41 PM
am i the only person to see THAT P38 video here? Anyone else know what one i mean?

Its no secret that wacky stuff can be done with this games flight models.

Badsight-
07-01-2006, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Its no secret that wacky stuff can be done with this games flight models. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>apparently , no

you can use hacks outside of the game

but it apparently , re-compiling FB back after you have broken it open changes it to a different version . i dont know how it works - thats how its been described by people who have managed it

once your changed FB game is a diff version , you cant join other version games

the incorrect patch method & speed hacks are different things

AKA_TAGERT
07-01-2006, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
No it's a vid of Morane406 with Brewster cockpit, and the guy poped out of the plane runned around it, then got back in and flew away, my jaw is still on the floor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I found it here: http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....c;f=144;t=005391;p=3 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=005391;p=3)

Read the post of a guy named Kegetys... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah.. the user interface aka GUI in Java. Yes.. I can see where that would be an easy target.. You could tweak some things like he described.. But I dont think the FM, DM, aka Flight Model is part of all that. So, again, not seeing the video, all I can say is when they show me a video of a IL2 out running a Me262 than I will worry.. but not until then.

danjama
07-01-2006, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
No it's a vid of Morane406 with Brewster cockpit, and the guy poped out of the plane runned around it, then got back in and flew away, my jaw is still on the floor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I found it here: http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....c;f=144;t=005391;p=3 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=005391;p=3)

Read the post of a guy named Kegetys... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah.. the user interface aka GUI in Java. Yes.. I can see where that would be an easy target.. You could tweak some things like he described.. But I dont think the FM, DM, aka Flight Model is part of all that. So, again, not seeing the video, all I can say is when they show me a video of a IL2 out running a Me262 than I will worry.. but not until then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what about il2 out running a do335?

Crop-Duster.
07-01-2006, 07:38 PM
You may have noticed the thread starter at SimHQ about this so called hack was his first post....

july fools day

And I bet the poster was someone called Siggi...

PBNA-Boosher
07-01-2006, 07:59 PM
Explain the movie file then. I'm seriously worried.

danjama
07-01-2006, 08:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Explain the movie file then. I'm seriously worried. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come on Boosh, not you, dont fall for this **** http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Badsight-
07-01-2006, 09:06 PM
whats wrong with the movie dajama ?

someone made the Buffalo cockpit useable with the Morane , that is done with Lock-on also - cockpits already in-game used on AI planes . its a hack of the game code i.e. not impossible

whats interesting is the guy seems to be claiming his work resulted in a re-compiled version of FB that was useable online . . . . thats not good

AKA_TAGERT
07-01-2006, 09:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Explain the movie file then. I'm seriously worried. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean the track file? of the La climbing? Two words..

Head Wind

Now most of us never see the wind enabled in this game.. But recall this one mission where I had to apply full brakes to keep the plane from being blown off the runway.. It was a few versions back.. So not sure if that is still the case. Long story short, I could re-create just about everything excpet the fast take off.. but I didnt have the wind enalbed either, Ill bet if you did enable it and fly into it you would get a much faster take off. But, I have to admit.. that straight up climb he did up to 1000m.. best I could do was about 800m. So, who knows maybe this is an old version of IL2 where such a bug existed with all the realism options turned off? Might even be the old pre 4.0 FM. Note it is not one of the newer planes he did it in.. Like a Do335 or Tempest.

stoopidlimey
07-01-2006, 09:57 PM
Wonderful news, I can finally put lace on my Spitfire, make it go 100mph MAX. (That way I can put on my make up) After that, I can modify the LAGG to fly like they were supposed to. I think they were called "Varnished Coffins", I wonder why.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gifStoopidlimey http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Xiolablu3
07-01-2006, 10:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stoopidlimey:
I can modify the LAGG to fly like they were supposed to. I think they were called "Varnished Coffins", I wonder why....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ermm becasue they flew like they do in the sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Don't tell me even Lagg3's give you trouble http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Laggs won the worst plane in the ******ss book of records...

LStarosta
07-01-2006, 10:36 PM
+1 for my postcount.

PBNA-Boosher
07-01-2006, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Explain the movie file then. I'm seriously worried. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean the track file? of the La climbing? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the one of the MS-406 with a Brewster cockpit, and the guy getting out, running around the plane, getting in again, and taking off in his MS-406 with a Brewster cockpit.

Freelancer-1
07-03-2006, 07:17 PM
That MS-406 pilot looks real bummed to have to run around the plane. I can relate. No one likes having to run laps http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

LEXX_Luthor
07-03-2006, 07:20 PM
If this HACK news is true, this is the *best* news for the IL-2 community and Oleg Maddox.

Maybe somebody can make visible Dots for high resolution monitors.

Offline players finally *might* *MIGHT* have a great flight sim somebody could add skins for Airfields, massive bombed out Oil Refinery smoke clouds visible from 30 kilometers, Lights and Fire visible from 30 kilometers, visible Dots, modding AI behavior, etc...endless list of Offline play possibilities. The tiny minority of Online players crying about cheating "flight models" can start paying Oleg and UBI a Monthly Fee for Safe and Secure "encrypted" Online shooting.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">http://www.heugy.com/users/zestienplus/forum/images/avatars/IB-avatars/wallace.gif Platypus_1.JaVA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Would explain some of the stuff we see in online wars. Looks like closed coops will be more popular now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_yellow">and offline campaigns too...</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
:whippe: do'h http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif ya

Lewicide
07-03-2006, 07:33 PM
Has anyone actually "captured" an example of this beast?

It would be useful to know what this tool is really capable of.

-HH-Quazi
07-03-2006, 07:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
If this HACK news is true, this is the *best* news for the IL-2 community and Oleg Maddox.

Maybe somebody can make visible Dots for high resolution monitors.

Offline players finally *might* *MIGHT* have a great flight sim somebody could add skins for Airfields, massive bombed out Oil Refinery smoke clouds visible from 30 kilometers, Lights and Fire visible from 30 kilometers, visible Dots, modding AI behavior, etc...endless list of Offline play possibilities. The tiny minority of Online players crying about cheating "flight models" can start paying Oleg and UBI a Monthly Fee for Safe and Secure "encrypted" Online shooting.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">http://www.heugy.com/users/zestienplus/forum/images/avatars/IB-avatars/wallace.gif Platypus_1.JaVA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Would explain some of the stuff we see in online wars. Looks like closed coops will be more popular now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_yellow">and offline campaigns too...</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
:whippe: do'h http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif ya </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's plenty of arcade flight sims already out there.

LEXX_Luthor
07-03-2006, 08:05 PM
Lewicide:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It would be useful to know what this tool is really capable of. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who knows, or if its true. If so, its something for the C++ Cult or JAVA Priesthood. I'm only a mere humble Fortran Fundamentalist. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif However, if its all true, usable tools might be possible for the IL-2 community -- if we are lucky, a Test Runway Skin tool for example, or a method to skin ships in FB/PF.

But, we just found out on the ubi.com webboard that skinning ships is "arcade." Watch this...

-HH-Quazi:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There's plenty of arcade flight sims already out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, we can only offer insult to customers who play Offline. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Xiolablu3
07-03-2006, 09:09 PM
Online is the best part of this sim by far, Lexx.

If this is lost to hackers I think most would give it up.

If you have never flown online, you should start, mate. Its the same as offline but about 10 times the fun as you are with real people and pilots. I used to fly offline only until a mate turned me onto online, I have hardly played offline since, except to try a few campaigns by friends http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (Icefires recent Tempest campaign for one)

Kuna_
07-03-2006, 09:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Online is the best part of this sim by far, Lexx.

If this is lost to hackers I think most would give it up.

If you have never flown online, you should start, mate. Its the same as offline but about 10 times the fun as you are with real people and pilots. I used to fly offline only until a mate turned me onto online, I have hardly played offline since, except to try a few campaigns by friends http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (Icefires recent Tempest campaign for one) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I tend to disagree a bit.
First off majority are offliners in many games. And I think that regards this game too.
I'm offliner for the most part and so are several regulars here.
I wouldn't gave up on haxed IL-2. I'd just make it to suit my needs adding few cockpits etc. (P-36, MS.406 if I could do that with h4x tools). If there's no way to stop h4xed IL-2 online then online will die. Simple'n easy.
One excellent old game comes to my mind - Diablo 2... awesome game but cheating destroyed it.

About online being the best part well it is but Oleg made it so (but I what I said here is limted to COOPs ONLY!).

The stupidest mode of the game (brainless deathmatch covered with few ground targets to make it look like serious war. LoL.) is the one on which (because of which) are most efforts concentrated. Endless tunings in FMs and DMs from patch to patch like it matters if plane is 2km/h faster or slower.

Devs have concentrated their efforts based on whining for new planes and fixored FMs. That supposedly should satify majority. Loud online majority anyway.
And it lasted for years that way.

But what they really should do - they should fix Ai and implement new better offline campaign system long time ago.
But chances are we will never see that. Like we never saw life of online campaign in practice and that really should be the top (best) experience that this game can offer... COOPs are near but not really spot on. Anyhow C00Ps are certainly best mod as it is now.

And when BoB comes out this sim will be complately dead because both offliners and onliners will switch to BoB.

That's not that far from now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
------------------------------------------------
Actually I didn't believe that I will see the day to say that I'm getting bored with FB - but yes I do. Big time.
And I don't think that any new plane/map/object would change that. Some other changes would change my mind but I don't have the slightest intention to whine post about that any more. Other guys have already mantioned it all anyway...

Waiting for BoB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Scen
07-03-2006, 10:28 PM
Nope you couldn't be more incorrect... This is exactly what killed the Counter Strike community period. Who cares if you can fix some troublesome problems that have been plaguing the sim for years.

This is exactly what fractures a community and kills a sim like IL2.

Game over...

Oh and before you say other wises lets take a look at the facts.

The only reason why this sim exisits today with all the mods and addons is because of online playing.

Please tell me other wise

BfHeFwMe
07-03-2006, 10:57 PM
OK,

"otherwise"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

WTE_Galway
07-04-2006, 12:29 AM
gave up online play 3 years ago .. too many children at the time, the only good thing was being part of a great squadron

still even offline there is something pointless about trying to master a hackable game

KIMURA
07-04-2006, 01:13 AM
READ THIS (http://schwarzerprinz.de/files/allesgelogen.txt)

Xiolablu3
07-04-2006, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna_:

The stupidest mode of the game (brainless deathmatch covered with few ground targets to make it look like serious war. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thats just like saying ALL people who play this game stupid, PRETENDING to fly when sat in front of a computer, and PRETENDING like its a real experience LOL.

I have played coops before and there is not much difference between the very good servers with well designed maps and coops. Except you dont shoot STUPID AI planes down who cannot fly for toffee. LOL.

Too expect the AI to behave like real players is just daft, they should give up on this STUPID part of the sim and just concentrate on the great parts like the online mode. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BUT annoying know-it-all forumites aside :-

I truly believe if people dont think the online part of this game is the best thing they have ever played, then they havent played anything like the fantastic online maps that Icefire, JTD and Firelok (and many others) create. They are very much like coops but with all human players.

The offline part just seems so shallow after playing great maps with human players. How can you test your skills against a drone? There is nothing more fun than getting 6-7 bombers togther and 5 or 6 fighters to cover and hitting the enemies targets on mass, with them making big efforts to stop your attack. Or winning the map with a team effort with 1 minute to spare (I remember that one well, BBB_Hyperion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

I just cannot get excited when all the planes are computer controlled, when its human vs human its a real test of skill and the adrenaline is flowing and heart beating.

Coops seem good too, but not too much different from a great coordinated team effort on a server with great maps.

rnzoli
07-04-2006, 01:45 AM
offline players, please try to understand this: online play is a SOCIAL ACTIVITY

that will be ruined first with the hack

and then your offline play will go down that road as well, with tons of low-quality, partly interdependent and partly incompatible mods

there are many flightsims with modding ability out there, so why can't we keep IL2 secure for online play?

rnzoli
07-04-2006, 01:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe somebody can make visible Dots for high resolution monitors. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The most overly optimistic statement ever read.

What you dream about will look like this:


if (myArmyColor = dot.armyColor)
{
dot.rangeKm = 1
dot.radius = 1
}
else
{
dot.rangeKm = 30
dot.radius = 5
}


yeah.... it's fixed for sure....I bet you weren't thinking about that sort of fix http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

i am suspicious that people fancying the idea to take Il2 apart will be too late to realize that they will never be able to put it back together again

il2 is too precious to break it just for fun and curiosity

Xiolablu3
07-04-2006, 01:56 AM
I agree about the social side, Rnzoli, it just makes it so much more fun.

Last time I flew online properly was the other night and just as the map was ending, blue launched a mass bomber attack against our airfield, using about 5 or 6 Ju88's and Heinkels with FW190A6 and Me109G's as cover. (It caught us offguard because usually the bomber attacks are launched at the ground targets rather than the airfield)

Was a fantastic sight seeing them all appearing on the horizon and a teamate shouting 'bombers incoming', 'lookout they have fighter cover!'. A frantic effort to stop them by the red team was made.

Thats sort of 'unique moment' never happens offline and just like the hundreds of other similar experiences, you cannot beat it. It was all the more enjoyable because it was the first time I had flown with Brain from his board, which brings in the social thing again. (Had a great time on that map mate, we must do it again! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif)

I am not trying to argue with anyone, just explain how much fun online play can be, especially when people start flying bombers and teaming up with fighter cover. I have met so many friends from this game who I enjoy spending the evening chatting to and flying with, its like a social event http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

There are just so many good times and memorable moments from flying online with mates. Often people will take screenshots and post them the next day, like this :-

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10963&page=1&pp=20

rnzoli
07-04-2006, 02:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And when BoB comes out this sim will be complately dead because both offliners and onliners will switch to BoB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody is thinking in this thread, or I am in a particular bad mood today?

IL2 series will continue to be active for at least 1-2 more years because
- not everyone can afford the expensive upgrade demaded by BoB
- many planes available in IL2 are not going to be available in BoB at the beginning.

Your agenda seems to boils down to this: you are already bored with this game, so you want to toss it over the cliff and get something new instead.

WOLFMondo
07-04-2006, 02:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Sad news indeed. We'll see if this is true. TBH the FW190 picture looks like a Photoshop job. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until I see some video of this being used Its all flash in the pan.

Xiolablu3
07-04-2006, 02:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And when BoB comes out this sim will be complately dead because both offliners and onliners will switch to BoB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody is thinking in this thread, or I am in a particular bad mood today?

IL2 series will continue to be active for at least 1-2 more years because
- not everyone can afford the expensive upgrade demaded by BoB
- many planes available in IL2 are not going to be available in BoB at the beginning.

Your agenda seems to boils down to this: you are already bored with this game, so you want to toss it over the cliff and get something new instead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are dead right there Rnzoli. We have had this conversation many times before. All of the people I fly with will continue to fly IL2/FB even after BOB comes out. Purely for the sheer variety of planes and maps not available in the new sim for a while.

Its not a case of either/or. Its a case of having both and flying what you feel like that day. The sheer calue for money of 1C MAddox games means everyone can afford both games.

WOLFMondo
07-04-2006, 02:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Explain the movie file then. I'm seriously worried. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean the track file? of the La climbing? Two words..

Head Wind

Now most of us never see the wind enabled in this game.. But recall this one mission where I had to apply full brakes to keep the plane from being blown off the runway.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does that on wake island. Put the weather to poor and cloud low and then try to take of in a Wildcat. As soon as the mission starts the wind is blowing you off the runway and into the hangers. But when you turn into it you climb real nice.

waffen-79
07-04-2006, 03:03 AM
The way you guys keep spreading the word, 4.07 will feature:

1.bountybox background service (we already need it)
2.at least 2 serial keys lock (we already need just one)
3.punkbuster (it's really ONLY needed in arcade games like BF2)

And just when I was getting the Ar-234 you make them modify the netcode so it's more demanding.

be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

I mean seriously, I alredy played the track of the la-5, saw the movie made by kegetys

but, who can actually prove with a track that cheating is being used online? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

maybe we are overreacting a little and because of this 4.06 will be delayed even more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

after all someone already said they cracked it since '03 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LEXX_Luthor
07-04-2006, 03:06 AM
Thanks Kuna. Developing for Online play is Oleg's personal hobby, his passion, and his main development focus. But, Oleg relies on Offline player sales to fund his further development. To make his hobby into a successful business, Oleg needs to charge Online Pay-To-Play, or create two versions of the sim, a "free" locked Online sim with fewer features that can be used as Online cheats, and a mostly open moddable Offline air war simulation -- EXCEPT AIRCRAFT -- Oleg has proven willing and able to mod himself all the aircraft we want, and Oleg might find a way to get additional sales of aircraft to Offline players. If primary focus is given to Offline play development, the sales could be enough to fund a secondary Online play development effort.

Did you see what rnzoli posted?

rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">offline players, please try to understand this: online play is a SOCIAL ACTIVITY </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Offline players are seeing Social Hostility coming from this competitive Online gamer community (except Jetbuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). A good example of Social Hostility is making "coded" insults against flight simmers who have problems with target Dots at high monitor resolutions.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rnzoli
07-04-2006, 03:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But, Oleg relies on Offline player sales to fund his further development. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would like to see this claim substantiated. Maybe this was true in 2001, but the world moves towards online play unstoppably and the same is true for IL2.

Besides the social factor, one important key advantage is that online play gives much higher computing power to create the simulated experience. The PC clients connected to a server form a 'network computer'. This gives a much higher capacity available for more detailied FM and DM modelling than the CPU power of a single PC, on which you play offline alone. This boils down to simplicity and predictability of the AI, in comparison to human players.

Moreover, if the exitement of online kills remind people of good sex, offline playing reminds me of masturbation.

Nothing to be ashamed of, but not particularly something to be too proud of, either.

edit: forgot the appropriate smiley
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
(in return to offline player's hostility towards online players)

lowfighter
07-04-2006, 03:42 AM
I hope there'll be a solution to please all people here!
But I would be very excited if I had the ability to change certain things, and Lex eamples are quite good and important.
The first thing I would do if I had that tool is to make those little soldiers which are jumping from trucks to run-takecover-run-takecover-run...
forever...till they are shot by enemy...that is sort of infantry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
07-04-2006, 03:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Thanks Kuna. Developing for Online play is Oleg's personal hobby, his passion, and his main development focus. But, Oleg relies on Offline player sales to fund his further development. To make his hobby into a successful business, Oleg needs to charge Online Pay-To-Play, or create two versions of the sim, a "free" locked Online sim with fewer features that can be used as Online cheats, and a mostly open moddable Offline air war simulation -- EXCEPT AIRCRAFT -- Oleg has proven willing and able to mod himself all the aircraft we want, and Oleg might find a way to get additional sales of aircraft to Offline players. If primary focus is given to Offline play development, the sales could be enough to fund a secondary Online play development effort.

Did you see what rnzoli posted?

rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">offline players, please try to understand this: online play is a SOCIAL ACTIVITY </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Offline players are seeing Social Hostility coming from this competitive Online gamer community (except Jetbuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). A good example of Social Hostility is making "coded" insults against flight simmers who have problems with target Dots at high monitor resolutions.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are being paranoid, Lexx.

We were just explaining the benefits and fun of online play, nothing against offliners at all.

I only got sarcastic because of Kunas closed minded statements on some online players. (and I was half joking anyway)

There is no ill feeling in my posts towards any settings people want to play. I was hoping you would come and join us online for a game sometime actually, its always nice to fly with new players, however good or bad they are. Its always great to fly with the people you have talked and debated with on this forum.

If you cannot see the dots then fly on icon or padlock servers, simple answer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rnzoli
07-04-2006, 03:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">that is sort of infantry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh dear, you are driving me nuts today

infantry simulation is indeed very important in a flightsim, since there aren't any decent ground battle sims around, are there? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rnzoli
07-04-2006, 03:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">or create two versions of the sim, a "free" locked Online sim with fewer features that can be used as Online cheats, and a mostly open moddable Offline air war simulation </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

now that the red curtain is disappearing from my eyes, i can finally say something that will please you.

AFAIK, this is how Bob is planned to work, because the authentication checks will be implemented in the net code, therefore offline players aren't going to be affected by those restrictions. So if that is implemented for IL2, everyone will be happy.

lowfighter
07-04-2006, 04:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">that is sort of infantry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh dear, you are driving me nuts today

infantry simulation is indeed very important in a flightsim, since there aren't any decent ground battle sims around, are there? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Zoli, I think at least the dedicated mudlovers (the sturmoviks, the stukaviks etc) would be quite happy to see something like humans moving around the places which they attack. But in no way I pretended that this would be enjoyable for all community...
Anyway if breaking the code was indeed done Oleg will come with a solution to protect the online community. So there's anyway no point for both "camps" to throw stones to each other. Both camps can be happy.
Cheers!

LEXX_Luthor
07-04-2006, 10:41 AM
rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would like to see this claim substantiated. Maybe this was true in 2001, but the world moves towards online play unstoppably and the same is true for IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Simhq webboard, 2005, last year. A very rare honest, and non-hostile, Online player admitted to the IL-2/FB forum...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If it wasn't for the Offline base, we'd all be paying 12 dollars a month to fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This thread did remind me to pump up ElAuren's old Pay-To-Play Poll thread which shows exactly how "much" we care about the efforts of flight sim developers to create a cheat-free social activity, which Scen last page hinted is not the same as air combat simulation.

Scen (last page):: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who cares if you can fix some troublesome problems that have been plaguing the sim for years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed. Oleg crippling his own flight models by disabling elevator trim, to try to prevent Online cheating using elevator trim slider cheats, shows how the sim must be sacrificed to provide a social activity environment. The Offline players asked for a functional elevator trim for Offline use, and the Online players hacked away with "online" webboard insults and snotty postings against the Offline customers -- the only customers Oleg can depend on as we are now seeing in ElAuren's Poll thread (unless Oleg can successfully go Pay-To-Play Online).

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
Nope you couldn't be more incorrect... This is exactly what killed the Counter Strike community period. Who cares if you can fix some troublesome problems that have been plaguing the sim for years.

This is exactly what fractures a community and kills a sim like IL2.

Game over...

Oh and before you say other wises lets take a look at the facts.

The only reason why this sim exisits today with all the mods and addons is because of online playing.

Please tell me other wise </div></BLOCKQUOTE>agreed 100%

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
It does that on wake island. Put the weather to poor and cloud low and then try to take of in a Wildcat. As soon as the mission starts the wind is blowing you off the runway and into the hangers. But when you turn into it you climb real nice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, good thanks WOLF! It has been so long since I have seen a server make use of the weather that I was starting to wonder if I was dreaming it. I do recal being able to take off in a very short distance.. much like the so called hack track file we have seen.

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 11:01 AM
All in all Oleg's IL2 was a first is so many areas

*Eastern Front
*Russian Planes
*Ground Attack
*Geared towards Online play

And last but not least

*A standard un-tweakable FM

Be it wrong or right, at least we knew everyone was on the same sheet of music.

Now.. after some 5 years of hack free online play some Johnny come lately shut in with nothing going on in his life but a diet coke, a piza, and enough free time to sit and tweak a variable here and there just by chance happens to come across the La5's weight variable.

Anyone with no life could have done that! Just keep tweaking one variable at a time, fly it, see what happens, repeat. That is a far cry from tweaking every aspect of the FM let alone understanding every aspect of the FM to do what ever you want to do. That is to say, until I see a P11 pass a Me262 in level flight I will not loose any sleep.

Now.. decision time.. Do you put your faith in Oleg who has provided us a hack free flight sim for over 5 years.. Or some lifeless shut in that just happened to come across the La5 weight variable among a see of numbers in an encrypted file?

My money is on Oleg! If this is truly a problem, I€m sure Oleg will do something to fix it just like he has every other problem in the last 5+ years.

LEXX_Luthor
07-04-2006, 11:19 AM
TAGERT:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">*Russian Planes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Eagle Dynamics with ye old DOS Su-27 Flaker 1.0 from 1995 was the first to offer Russian planes, as far as I know, as this one got me into flight sims.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">* Ground attack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Older sims did this long ago. I know there was some type of F-117 "hud" or "mfd" sim out there, sometime. There was an A-10 attack sim, or two or three!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">*Geared towards Online play </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Other older Online-geared sims use a Pay-To-Play business model. Oleg's is only the first sim geared to Online play that does not use Online Pay-To-Play.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">*A standard un-tweakable FM </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Su-27. This is not a "first" for Oleg, as many old sims had unmoddable flight models, and they were even primarily Offline play back then.

jasonbirder
07-04-2006, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would like to see this claim substantiated. Maybe this was true in 2001, but the world moves towards online play unstoppably and the same is true for IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that something like 90 - 95% of all the people who purchase Il2FB et al
NEVER fly online
Of the remaining 5 - 10% I would hazard a guess that most of those fly a mixture of online ond offline...

Mmmmm the business case for that ONline flight sim is starting to look pretty week isn't it...

Who knows if Oleg & 1C stopped wasting time pandering to the tiny minority of Online players who through their vocal opinions on these forums have a disproportionate "pester power" and concentrated on making FB/AEP/PF the game work a little better...better AI, better offline campaigns, better FMB tools etc etc instead of worrying about things like trim delay fixes and SFS sum checking...then maybe the game could live up to its undoubted potential...

danjama
07-04-2006, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Now.. after some 5 years of hack free online play </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you believe this do you?

AKA_TAGERT
07-05-2006, 12:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Eagle Dynamics with ye old DOS Su-27 Flaker 1.0 from 1995 was the first to offer Russian planes, as far as I know, as this one got me into flight sims. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>WWII Russian Planes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Older sims did this long ago. I know there was some type of F-117 "hud" or "mfd" sim out there, sometime. There was an A-10 attack sim, or two or three!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>WWII Ground Attack.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Other older Online-geared sims use a Pay-To-Play business model. Oleg's is only the first sim geared to Online play that does not use Online Pay-To-Play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Is what I am saying.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Su-27. This is not a "first" for Oleg, as many old sims had unmoddable flight models, and they were even primarily Offline play back then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah.. you got me there! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
07-05-2006, 12:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
you believe this do you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What part of hacking the FM or DM has nothing to do with the isp speed hack and print screen cheats do you not understand? Or are you trying to tell me someone hacked the FM or DM years ago? By FM or DM note that I am NOT talking about messing with the Java GUI to make a pilot run around and then get back in, or substuting the cockpit on one plane with another.. Im talking understanding the encripted code enough to make a plane do what every you want it to do.

Siwarrior
07-05-2006, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">PEOPLE: we are adults here. Let's get some fact- for-sure fact, not guesses and accusations or stories- before we decide that the sky has fallen. Spreading panic is NOT going to help</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

umm im 15 what do i do.........


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

rnzoli
07-05-2006, 12:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would like to see this claim substantiated. Maybe this was true in 2001, but the world moves towards online play unstoppably and the same is true for IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Simhq webboard, 2005, last year. A very rare honest, and non-hostile, Online player admitted to the IL-2/FB forum...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If it wasn't for the Offline base, we'd all be paying 12 dollars a month to fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa! Overwhelming evidence indeed. An honest online playing admitting on the web. You have got to be kidding me. Non-hostile for sure, but also totally wrong in my opinion: IL2 is not suitable for pay-to-play because of its very own concept:
- high quality modeling (server capacity limits)
- narrow interest area (rather low user base in comparison to other titles)
- steep learning curve (must play months before getting any good)
- long life-span (years instead of months)
- large portion of user base is adults (stricter cash spending control)
- high investment neededin gaming rig (cannot with a mouse play on mom's or dad's PC).

Pay-to-play fees also include server management and entertainment (in our case: mission) development, which is right now taken care of entirely on a vountary basis by the various dedicated server operators and coop hosts (not anymore a cost to UBI or 1C).

The message I am trying to get over to you and basically everybody, is what lowfighter said. We are in the same boat and finance the same game development together. We owe each other nothing but holding together. That's why it is important to avoid offliners jumping for this hack "wohooo! how nice for me!" without thinking first. This hack can fall quite short of what offliners really want (can you really tweat AI?), but it can definitely ruin the online community and I am doubtful that offliners alone can keep the development boat floating for long.

rnzoli
07-05-2006, 12:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jasonbirder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would like to see this claim substantiated. Maybe this was true in 2001, but the world moves towards online play unstoppably and the same is true for IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that something like 90 - 95% of all the people who purchase Il2FB et al
NEVER fly online
Of the remaining 5 - 10% I would hazard a guess that most of those fly a mixture of online ond offline.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL, jason, I thought "substantiated" means "supported with evidence", not just "opiniated". I mean, what factors make you think about this 95/5 scenario?

On the main PF home, history page mentiones that about 1.2 million copies were sold, so maybe it is safe to assume that 1.5 million copies are in user hands by now (and perhaps another 0.2 million pirated copies, which we can disregard due to no revenue to UBI/1C).

I am almost certain that not all 1.5 million copies are played every day. This is the hardest part to estimate. For online stats, HL or ASE statistics could help.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jasonbirder:
Mmmmm the business case for that ONline flight sim is starting to look pretty week isn't it...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmm... consider that regular onliners bought parts of the series and the new add-ons purely for online compatibility reasons (i.e., they are more willing to purchase unwanted items than offliners), the business case shouldn't be all that bad, is it... (it's not a pay-to-play, but rather an invest-to-play scheme).

rnzoli
07-05-2006, 12:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Siwarrior:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">PEOPLE: we are adults here. Let's get some fact- for-sure fact, not guesses and accusations or stories- before we decide that the sky has fallen. Spreading panic is NOT going to help</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

umm im 15 what do i do.........


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's official. You are authorized to panic, but do not spread it.

Grendel-B
07-05-2006, 01:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But, Oleg relies on Offline player sales to fund his further development. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would like to see this claim substantiated. Maybe this was true in 2001, but the world moves towards online play unstoppably and the same is true for IL2.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
IL-2 series is no isolated bastion of games market. Online play support is still insignificant for most titles. Only on a few, specially designed cases online play support is planned and actually supported. Only a few very major cases are designed specifically around online play. For most other cases online is just an addition, which is included if it can be added into the game without major hassles.
This is quite true for IL2 as well.
The huge majority of games, easily over 90%, sell for their offline play. IL2 series also sells on majority for players never going online. But online gamers might be the most vocal, supportive users, and very loyal in the long run. They also may create additional sales by showing the game to others.
But it is perfectly safe to say that IL2 series' sales still come from primarily offline players. That's the way the games industry still works. Online is sometimes a useful addition, but not having it in your product might not do any noticeable dent in the sales.
This from a chap working in the games industry.

rnzoli
07-05-2006, 01:21 AM
thank you for that insight, what do you think about the trends (you mention 'still' several times), it it also wrong to assume that online player base is expanding due to increasing internet penetration, higher available bandwidth and lower prices?

Tully__
07-05-2006, 01:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">LOL, jason, I thought "substantiated" means "supported with evidence", not just "opiniated". I mean, what factors make you think about this 95/5 scenario? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The last time total sales v. online player base was published, online makes up well under 10% of total sales. Maybe as many as 15-20% could be counted as one time or casual online players if you're very optimistic. That makes the offline base by far the majority. Though the figures are old, the online player base hasn't grown much since they were published.

rnzoli
07-05-2006, 02:08 AM
So the only conclusion is to go forward with exploiting the hack to please offliners and onliners must find another game for themselves.

Or...?

As Grendel said, online is included in the games if 'hassle-free'. But in the middle of paid add-ons & new BoB engine development, that last thing you can call an online cheat problem is 'hassle free" to solve.

stubby
07-05-2006, 06:49 AM
The irony of this revelation is that when folks would post of seeing strange stuff on HL, the know-it-alls instantly claim that all online anomalies could be explained by packet loss and lag. As it turns out, all such anomalies can't be written off simply as lag. This is the basic issue with client based applications in general. Nobody in this forum can say with any level of confidence that the version of Il2 being flown by Joe in California matches the one being used by Ivan in Russia. The only real solution of course is a 100% server side application like you see with other online only games like Warcraft. Of course if Il2 tries to go that path, they'll take a massive enconomic hit since most folks that play Il2 to begin with are off liners.

RaVe_N
07-05-2006, 07:27 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER... isn't that what most UFO pilots say????
I really hope this crack is not happening . http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
if it is we will go down the road of Microsoft CFS2 as most experienced simmers know as a cheating UFO world . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
the beauty of il2 was that you could not modifie any flight models so it was skill against skill. if there is this crack its simply pointless to play . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
the 4.05 debacle did a fantastic job of splitting the community right down the middle. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif
I can only imagine what this Crack will do to the sim...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

or could this be a conspiracy to destroy il2 as we know it so as to launch BOB off like a rocket??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

danjama
07-05-2006, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
you believe this do you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What part of hacking the FM or DM has nothing to do with the isp speed hack and print screen cheats do you not understand? Or are you trying to tell me someone hacked the FM or DM years ago? By FM or DM note that I am NOT talking about messing with the Java GUI to make a pilot run around and then get back in, or substuting the cockpit on one plane with another.. Im talking understanding the encripted code enough to make a plane do what every you want it to do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well what do you think i meant?

LEXX_Luthor
07-05-2006, 08:22 AM
Thanks Grendel.

Grendel-B:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IL-2 series is no isolated bastion of games market. Online play support is still insignificant for most titles. Only on a few, specially designed cases online play support is planned and actually supported. Only a few very major cases are designed specifically around online play. For most other cases online is just an addition, which is included if it can be added into the game without major hassles.
This is quite true for IL2 as well.

The huge majority of games, easily over 90%, sell for their offline play. IL2 series also sells on majority for players never going online. But online gamers might be the most vocal, supportive users, and very loyal in the long run. They also may create additional sales by showing the game to others.

But it is perfectly safe to say that IL2 series' sales still come from primarily offline players. That's the way the games industry still works. Online is sometimes a useful addition, but not having it in your product might not do any noticeable dent in the sales.

This from a chap working in the games industry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So the only conclusion is to go forward with exploiting the hack to please offliners and onliners must find another game for themselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If needed, but there are several alternatives open to Oleg...only the 3rd is really any good for everybody here.

(1) Oleg drops Offline play and goes only Online Pay-To-Play, somewhat like TargetWare, but with Oleg's "Extreme Moscow" programming team behind him. This would most closely match Oleg's personal hobby of programming for and playing Online "dogfight."

(2) Without the ability to charge Online Pay-To-Play, Oleg drops Online development for strictly offline Air War Simulation development, in spirit like Rowan's/Shockwave's Battle of Britain. With his "Extreme Moscow" programming team behind him, Oleg would get rich fast, but he would feel the loss of his personal "online" Hobby.

(3) The best solution:: Oleg offers 2 versions of his sims...

-- Offline play version; a true Air War Simulation, with no "online sfs checking," fully functional elevator trim (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif), and open modding of everything in the sim (except aircraft and FMs/DMs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif which can be locked and sold seperately) and...

-- ...a closed Un-Moddable "safe and secure" Online Dogfight Deathmatch version, with no immersive Air War Simulation features that could be exploited as Online Cheats. The Offline version would sell like mad and make Oleg rich, allowing him to persue his personal Hobby of Online play development without having to charge Online Pay-To-Play.


Alternative number (3) is the best bet, and Oleg may be going that way with BoB And Beyond. The best thing (for me) and the Offline community is we can finally achieve the total Community Split, forever, that we have always desired from the socially hostile Online shooter "kill score" gamers, and even have a seperate Air War Simulation webboard here, at teh ubi.com. Although many may choose to play both versions of the sim, Online and Offline, and cross communities.

AKA_TAGERT
07-05-2006, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
well what do you think i meant? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Just that

LEXX_Luthor
07-05-2006, 10:18 AM
On the other hand...

Grendel-B:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But it is perfectly safe to say that IL2 series' sales still come from primarily offline players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
With online "download" the only way now of buying the sim, at least 4.05+, at least outside Russia+, may now be having a much higher "percentage" of (western) Online players purchasing the product than when the sim was a prime retail shelf product, at the expense of far lower sales as I don't know of any advertising for 4.05+. Although this offers lower costs for the Publisher, without any Online Pay-To-Play, this is defeat and retreat from the marketplace -- from lack of Offline play development over the years...unless they are doing some heavy advertising right now.

Xiolablu3
07-05-2006, 11:34 AM
Its so sad that so few players play online, you guys seriously should try it out!

I was the same, only an offline player, once you find out how easy it is and waht great fun it is, you hardly use offline again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If anyone needs any help or tips for getting online, I can help, I love flyingh with people I have met on this board. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stubby
07-05-2006, 11:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Its so sad that so few players play online, you guys seriously should try it out!

I was the same, only an offline player, once you find out how easy it is and waht great fun it is, you hardly use offline again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Xiolablu3 -

I sort of find both modes of play enjoyable but enjoy offline far more because it offers tons more flexibility. I can game on my schedule, pick virtually any theater w/ DCG, and set all the parameters. I can also ensure my experience is smooth as silk where AI planes don't warp all over the place.

Online can be a real pain especially trying to join/set up coops. Dogfights servers are nice because you can come and go at will but it's only good for short term fixes. After while, it becomes stale. The only way online would top the offline experience is if I could join a coop at my leisure, any time, day or night and have a fully persistent dyanmic war raging. Some of the online wars have been great but turned out to be time wasters. Setting in a HL channel waiting 45 minutes for a coop to start only to have the host dropped connection 10 minutes into the mission really sucks.

waffen-79
07-05-2006, 12:11 PM
LOL I can understand that some of you are retired or make large sums of money.

I'm not retired yet nor make large sums of money, I'm just a regular guy with a regular income. (yeah, yeah, cry with me)

Pay-for-Play that doesn't do it for me, I mean I already bought the whole series PLUS 4.05 I intend to get 4.06 and HELL YEAH I'll get 4.07 (Ar-234 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif)

Why don't we JUST relax, let them figure it out, so they RELEASE .06 and .07 as planned and do what BEARCAT suggested

"Fly with your friends"

If you don't have friends, join a squad then.

justflyin
07-05-2006, 12:33 PM
A little off-topic, but on-topic as it has been mentioned in this thread, but many flight sims come to mind that were NOT online pay-to-play:

Jane's WWII Fighters

MS CFS Series

Other Jane's titles (Fighters Anthology, USAF...etc)

Why would somone post that this game is the first to not be pay-to-play??

Honestly, I would never pay-to-play this game online, even though it's the only game that I play online. I'd just join direct IP servers if it came to that.

As for the usual naysayers about online cheating, we wouldn't have MAX LAG and speed check if it wasn't true. Speed hack is used heavily online and by whole groups. Be sure. ;^)

Bearcat99
07-05-2006, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Its so sad that so few players play online, you guys seriously should try it out!

I was the same, only an offline player, once you find out how easy it is and waht great fun it is, you hardly use offline again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If anyone needs any help or tips for getting online, I can help, I love flyingh with people I have met on this board. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The really sad part is that online play can go from air quake to serious campaign missions in real time against live, AI or mixed pilots of varying degrees of skill. The air quakeZone style FFAs have been dead for me for years...that was another factor that made coming here so easy for me.

I fly both regularly and I still enjoy both immensely. The comeraderie factor of online flying is irreplaceale in my book. and at the same time the quality of this sim makes offline play far more enjoyable than imn any other sim I have flown in.

Old_Canuck
07-05-2006, 01:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Its so sad that so few players play online, you guys seriously should try it out!

I was the same, only an offline player, once you find out how easy it is and waht great fun it is, you hardly use offline again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If anyone needs any help or tips for getting online, I can help, I love flyingh with people I have met on this board. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The really sad part is that online play can go from air quake to serious campaign missions in real time against live, AI or mixed pilots of varying degrees of skill. The air quakeZone style FFAs have been dead for me for years...that was another factor that made coming here so easy for me.

I fly both regularly and I still enjoy both immensely. The comeraderie factor of online flying is irreplaceale in my book. and at the same time the quality of this sim makes offline play far more enjoyable than imn any other sim I have flown in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've just got online regularly only about a month or so ago and have encountered more friendly, helpful souls than otherwise. Mind you some of the helpful ones were using me as bait while I thought I was flying wing but they shared some valuable insights just the same http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif ;-) But if cheater-hacks went unchecked, the atmosphere will get uglier and even the friendly, helpful pilots will become cynical and (shall we say)less honorable IMHO.

Here's a couple of questions for you old hands regarding the present situation: 4.05 / 4.04 community split and possible encryption hack chaos. From a marketing standpoint, isn't it a good thing to have a disgruntled, disatisfied user base? Wouldn't it be easier then to move the user base into a new product?

McThag
07-05-2006, 01:39 PM
As I understood it, the SFS encryption was what prevented the game from running well on a Linux box. This could be a blessing in disguise for us offline people migrating to Linux.

And since I am trapped in 4.04m land...

LEXX_Luthor
07-05-2006, 01:50 PM
McThag:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As I understood it, the SFS encryption was what prevented the game from running well on a Linux box. This could be a blessing in disguise for us offline people migrating to Linux. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very interesting, and very sad if true. Where did you hear about this?

I think a few got FB to run under Linux, how well I don't know.

rnzoli
07-05-2006, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
So the only conclusion is to go forward with exploiting the hack to please offliners </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just noticed a huge mistake in this statement. It's granted that all onliners will suffer from a hacking possibility into the FM. But can we be sure that ALL offliners would be pleased by the same hack?

I am asking because there seems to be something common between the onliners and would-be IL2 modders: they are both exhibicionists to a small degree. Onliners take they flying skill to a larger audince, the modders/skinners/mission builders take their modding skills also to a larger audience. I am quite suspicious that not all offliners want to jump at this hack and "fix" things immediately, simply because lacking the interest in fiddling with these inner details, or lacking the competence.

So the IL2 user community may look like this:
20% active onliner ("oh my God, keep the sacred FM locked!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif)
20% creative offliners ("oh my God, finally we can tweak everything with the FM!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif)
60% passive offliners ("http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif ....can I download free mods from somewhere?")

The tension over this hacking/modding possibility is not between the 80% offliners and 20% onliners, but rather the vocal minority of onliners and the also vocal minority of creative offliners.

One can argue that the creative work of offliners would benefit the passive offliners, too. A few years back I tried several user-made mods for FS2002 on the advice of my skinner friend, but it was really frustrating to see so many bad quality mods from aspiring, but incompetent users. The real good mods were add-on payables by professionals, not the users themselves. That I can predict for IL2 users as well, the hack will satisfy the appetite of all creative offliners, but it won't benefit the passive offliners.

So the moral of the story is that onliners/offliners aren't homogenous. I have to point out that besides Lexx's dreaded "socially hostile online gamer playing on bloodthirsty dogfights to the bitter end" - like me for example http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif - there are also many other socially friendly onliners too, and even people who want to improve/mod the online controllability of the game (FBDaemon, IL2SC, online wars).

One question however to the creative offliners: with the MS flight sims being open for modding, and only IL2 being somewhat safe for online competitions, why is the desire to swamp IL2 with various FM/DM mods? If modding the internal details is so benefitial for a sim, why don't they improve e.g., CFS3 to the level of IL2? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I find it dishartening when people want to twist this sim from the hands of Oleg, the man who made this sim happen and brought it this far on his own back in the first place. This attitude deeply saddens me , because celebrating this hack seems nothing else than backstabbing him after benefiting a lot from his personal drive to keep this sim at the edge of combat flight sims. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

LEXX_Luthor
07-05-2006, 02:03 PM
Bear:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The comeraderie factor of online flying is irreplaceale in my book. and at the same time the quality of this sim makes offline play far more enjoyable than imn any other sim I have flown in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well said Bear, and honest. Online play offers human vs human play -- and that is the only thing it can offer, since, at least in this sim, Online play must sacrifice the features needed for air war simulation, as the first goal is to prevent computer gamers from cheating -- a never ending programming task.


Xiabalu:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was the same, only an offline player, once you find out how easy it is and waht great fun it is, you hardly use offline again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
btw... Thanks for the earlier invitation, but instead of escaping to Online dogfight, I have found another, mostly open sim, for air war simulation, which I currently modd, and mold, into what I want.

Well, if I do go Online it would be to play with people that I know and trust, because if the Online community is willing to "cheat" if they had the chance, and they do, the community is not worth logging in with and playing with.

Equally important, look at the members of this bitter Online community that make insulting posts against 3rd Party flight sim modders (our own Lowengrin is one example of enthusiastic 3rd Party modder). I may stay Offline at least until some developer can create a great and worthwile <span class="ev_code_yellow">(!)</span> Pay-To-Play Online War, preferably one that charges DOUBLE Monthly Fee to dogfight plane players and offers *free* play for bomber pilots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

rnzoli
07-05-2006, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
The only way online would top the offline experience is if I could join a coop at my leisure, any time, day or night and have a fully persistent dyanmic war raging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's a strange coincidence, but right now I am very close to start a (*edit: fully automated) dedicated coop server, hosting, launching and rotating missions in a campagn-like fashion. In order to avoid the long waits associated with coops, the mission is force-launched within 2 minutes after the 1st player presses "Fly". The missions are max. 30 minutes long and end earlier, if everyone lands or crashes. The server will be possible to join in a similar way as a dogfight server from ASE or HL or direct IP, the only restriction is that the player cannot start flying immediately, have to wait for the next mission start (keep logged on the server) or come back when the mission is expected to end. The point system will be totally team-based (sharing).

I wonder if that idea will take off or not. The dedicated coop server possibility was painfully missing from the online scene, and if I am lucky, I will be the first one in the world to bring a working prototype to the online minority of players.

slipBall
07-05-2006, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
The only way online would top the offline experience is if I could join a coop at my leisure, any time, day or night and have a fully persistent dyanmic war raging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's a strange coincidence, but right now I am very close to start a (*edit: fully automated) dedicated coop server, hosting, launching and rotating missions in a campagn-like fashion. In order to avoid the long waits associated with coops, the mission is force-launched within 2 minutes after the 1st player presses "Fly". The missions are max. 30 minutes long and end earlier, if everyone lands or crashes. The server will be possible to join in a similar way as a dogfight server from ASE or HL or direct IP, the only restriction is that the player cannot start flying immediately, have to wait for the next mission start (keep logged on the server) or come back when the mission is expected to end. The point system will be totally team-based (sharing).

I wonder if that idea will take off or not. The dedicated coop server possibility was painfully missing from the online scene, and if I am lucky, I will be the first one in the world to bring a working prototype to the online minority of players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



This sounds like a great idea. I think that it will be very popular. Another thing that would add greatly, is a requirement for all that join, that they must have teamspeak, and must use it during on-line play. Would certainly increase organization, would encourage proper use of runways, and add geatly to any mission success. These items that I mentioned are missing to a large extent during on-line play. The free for all is not very fullfilling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It turns me off to on-line play, and I am sure others as well

Old_Canuck
07-05-2006, 06:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
The only way online would top the offline experience is if I could join a coop at my leisure, any time, day or night and have a fully persistent dyanmic war raging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's a strange coincidence, but right now I am very close to start a (*edit: fully automated) dedicated coop server, hosting, launching and rotating missions in a campagn-like fashion. In order to avoid the long waits associated with coops, the mission is force-launched within 2 minutes after the 1st player presses "Fly". The missions are max. 30 minutes long and end earlier, if everyone lands or crashes. The server will be possible to join in a similar way as a dogfight server from ASE or HL or direct IP, the only restriction is that the player cannot start flying immediately, have to wait for the next mission start (keep logged on the server) or come back when the mission is expected to end. The point system will be totally team-based (sharing).

I wonder if that idea will take off or not. The dedicated coop server possibility was painfully missing from the online scene, and if I am lucky, I will be the first one in the world to bring a working prototype to the online minority of players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



This sounds like a great idea. I think that it will be very popular. Another thing that would add greatly, is a requirement for all that join, that they must have teamspeak, and must use it during on-line play. Would certainly increase organization, would encourage proper use of runways, and add geatly to any mission success. These items that I mentioned are missing to a large extent during on-line play. The free for all is not very fullfilling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It turns me off to on-line play, and I am sure others as well </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed to a certain extent. There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. It could get better if as you say, the use of TS was a requirement. Regarding use of runways, have you seen what they're doing with sandbags on =Dark Skies= ? It must have been a lot of extra work to create the maps that way but the result is a lot less nonsense on the runways/taxiways.

Xiolablu3
07-05-2006, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
The only way online would top the offline experience is if I could join a coop at my leisure, any time, day or night and have a fully persistent dyanmic war raging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's a strange coincidence, but right now I am very close to start a (*edit: fully automated) dedicated coop server, hosting, launching and rotating missions in a campagn-like fashion. In order to avoid the long waits associated with coops, the mission is force-launched within 2 minutes after the 1st player presses "Fly". The missions are max. 30 minutes long and end earlier, if everyone lands or crashes. The server will be possible to join in a similar way as a dogfight server from ASE or HL or direct IP, the only restriction is that the player cannot start flying immediately, have to wait for the next mission start (keep logged on the server) or come back when the mission is expected to end. The point system will be totally team-based (sharing).

I wonder if that idea will take off or not. The dedicated coop server possibility was painfully missing from the online scene, and if I am lucky, I will be the first one in the world to bring a working prototype to the online minority of players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



This sounds like a great idea. I think that it will be very popular. Another thing that would add greatly, is a requirement for all that join, that they must have teamspeak, and must use it during on-line play. Would certainly increase organization, would encourage proper use of runways, and add geatly to any mission success. These items that I mentioned are missing to a large extent during on-line play. The free for all is not very fullfilling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It turns me off to on-line play, and I am sure others as well </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed to a certain extent. There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. It could get better if as you say, the use of TS was a requirement. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with this, especially if there are a lot of regulars flying on the server using teamspeak, it seems natural to team up and make a good attack on the targets.

Even a coop can decend into madness, just like the average dogfight server if noone uses any teamwork and flies off on their own.
I really dont see that there is THAT much difference between a good server with well designed maps and ground targets and a Coop.

The only difference I can really see is more AI players.

There is a map right now I enjoy playing where all the allies in P51's P47's, B25's and A20's get a air start to attack Germany's Oil installation and the German fighters also get an airstart to defend. It feels very much like the hi - alt US day bomber raids on Germany in 1944-45. Its all done in a Coop style, but people can refly.

On the first mission when everyone starts togther, you get numerous bombers togther escorted by the fighters, just like a coop.

cmirko
07-06-2006, 12:13 AM
rnzoli pls check pm´s http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

great idea m8, will help with it if you need it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stubby
07-06-2006, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
the mission is force-launched within 2 minutes after the 1st player presses "Fly". The missions are max. 30 minutes long and end earlier, if everyone lands or crashes.
"
"
I wonder if that idea will take off or not. The dedicated coop server possibility was painfully missing from the online scene, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rnzoli,

I love it! I didn't know something like that was technically possible but if you can pull it off, it would be awesome! I'm pullin' for you and for this project. Best of luck!

stubby

justflyin
07-06-2006, 08:19 AM
I'd also support such a co-ops server, rnzoli. Sounds awesome.

slipBall
07-06-2006, 09:03 AM
(quote) Old_Canuck
Agreed to a certain extent. There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. It could get better if as you say, the use of TS was a requirement. Regarding use of runways, have you seen what they're doing with sandbags on =Dark Skies= ? It must have been a lot of extra work to create the maps that way but the result is a lot less nonsense on the runways/taxiways.

Thank you for the tip on Dark Skies, I paid them a visit, but they were running 405. Perhaps this weekend I will get my update

The teamspeak aspect would give the server a "Squadron" feel about it. Though it would only be as good as the amount of cooperation put into it by the pilots. If they joined the server fully aware of what was expected of them. Then I think you would see coop, and dedication, to the mission at hand

Xiolablu3
07-06-2006, 12:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would love that, which server was this pls OldCanuck?

BBB_Hyperion
07-06-2006, 07:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:

It's a strange coincidence, but right now I am very close to start a (*edit: fully automated) dedicated coop server, hosting, launching and rotating missions in a campagn-like fashion. In order to avoid the long waits associated with coops, the mission is force-launched within 2 minutes after the 1st player presses "Fly". The missions are max. 30 minutes long and end earlier, if everyone lands or crashes. The server will be possible to join in a similar way as a dogfight server from ASE or HL or direct IP, the only restriction is that the player cannot start flying immediately, have to wait for the next mission start (keep logged on the server) or come back when the mission is expected to end. The point system will be totally team-based (sharing).

I wonder if that idea will take off or not. The dedicated coop server possibility was painfully missing from the online scene, and if I am lucky, I will be the first one in the world to bring a working prototype to the online minority of players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is intresting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Started to evaluate that last year . But didnt want to invest that much time .

How did you solve these problems ?

-Rdy State of Players that dont want to be rdy
Resulting in &gt;&gt;Scrolling down of playerlists using interface.

My idea was to use a virtual mouse interface which worked on my test pc unfortunately not on all other pcs . The rdy state was then idented by a OCR like scan of the section on the screen . Not rdy after n minutes then would be kicked via interface.But never continued from there cause lack of time what were your solutions ?

Or did Oleg read my mail and rdy state is now on user list ?

Old_Canuck
07-06-2006, 07:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would love that, which server was this pls OldCanuck? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both of those happened on separate visits to Zeke Vs Wildcats. I don't know how often you can see this but it was cool to watch the Vals follow each other into a smooth wingover onto the carrier. We won't talk about the bloodbath that followed. Big salute to all those Val pilots .. your virtual deaths were not in vain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
07-06-2006, 10:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would love that, which server was this pls OldCanuck? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both of those happened on separate visits to Zeke Vs Wildcats. I don't know how often you can see this but it was cool to watch the Vals follow each other into a smooth wingover onto the carrier. We won't talk about the bloodbath that followed. Big salute to all those Val pilots .. your virtual deaths were not in vain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool, thanks for the info.

I saw you on Ukded2 a couple of times and asked you if you wanted us to cover you (you were flying a Ju88) but you didnt answer. Can you see more than one line of chat in the chat bar? If not then you miss a lot of hte chat going on about the missions, cover, targets, etc. If not then open chat box and drag it bigger with the mouse.

Maybe it wasnt you, just someone stealing your name..

dog-of-war
07-09-2006, 12:54 PM
oleg patch this problem, but do me a favour .i fly offline only. the dial up network i have is to slow .could you leave/give us the ability to fly the no cockpit aircrafts. p36 with p40 cockpit as example, as i under stand this is possible with this hack

slipBall
07-09-2006, 02:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dog-of-war:
oleg patch this problem, but do me a favour .i fly offline only. the dial up network i have is to slow .could you leave/give us the ability to fly the no cockpit aircrafts. p36 with p40 cockpit as example, as i under stand this is possible with this hack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't think that you will see this happen, but good luck

Old_Canuck
07-09-2006, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would love that, which server was this pls OldCanuck? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both of those happened on separate visits to Zeke Vs Wildcats. I don't know how often you can see this but it was cool to watch the Vals follow each other into a smooth wingover onto the carrier. We won't talk about the bloodbath that followed. Big salute to all those Val pilots .. your virtual deaths were not in vain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool, thanks for the info.

I saw you on Ukded2 a couple of times and asked you if you wanted us to cover you (you were flying a Ju88) but you didnt answer. Can you see more than one line of chat in the chat bar? If not then you miss a lot of hte chat going on about the missions, cover, targets, etc. If not then open chat box and drag it bigger with the mouse.

Maybe it wasnt you, just someone stealing your name.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was me lol. [OAC]Kosh recently taught me about enlarging the chat window so I'm catching more "lines" these days as well as virtual cannon shells http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Online nOOb I am obviously. Let's get on Teamspeak some time Xiolablu3. Will look for your sig. on HL.

UberDemon
07-09-2006, 04:06 PM
OK...

So that is two separate people who admited to successfully decoding, changing and recompiling SFSs, right? (One from Finland and one from Russia).

I imagine that was coming, after all, Oleg in his forum said that the future of the IL-2 engine was going to contain user made content as an option.

His solution is pretty sound too.
1 - control of Online Games will be in the server or host, so if no user mods are allowed, then only stock options are available...
2 - This satisfies offliners who want to cater their experiences according to their needs (say, fly a P-36 in offline with a P-40 cockpit).
3 - Onliners who agree on allowing mods can enjoy their modifications...
4 - And those onliners who want only what is available as released by Ubi/Maddox/1C, will be able to have just that...

slipBall
07-09-2006, 04:54 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif thats good to know

Old_Canuck
07-09-2006, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif thats good to know </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. It's already been said, if servers will have the ability to restrict or allow mods and if offliners can fly B-29s and others with mod cockpits it will extend the life of the sim not end it.

Xiolablu3
07-10-2006, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
There is more organisation creeping into online play though. Last week I saved a track of 5 Vals in a convincing formation with a few Zeros covering. In a later Pearl Harbor mission last weekend there was a half dozen P40s, a Wildcat and a few SBDs co-ordinating in a limited fashion. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would love that, which server was this pls OldCanuck? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both of those happened on separate visits to Zeke Vs Wildcats. I don't know how often you can see this but it was cool to watch the Vals follow each other into a smooth wingover onto the carrier. We won't talk about the bloodbath that followed. Big salute to all those Val pilots .. your virtual deaths were not in vain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool, thanks for the info.

I saw you on Ukded2 a couple of times and asked you if you wanted us to cover you (you were flying a Ju88) but you didnt answer. Can you see more than one line of chat in the chat bar? If not then you miss a lot of hte chat going on about the missions, cover, targets, etc. If not then open chat box and drag it bigger with the mouse.

Maybe it wasnt you, just someone stealing your name.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was me lol. [OAC]Kosh recently taught me about enlarging the chat window so I'm catching more "lines" these days as well as virtual cannon shells http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Online nOOb I am obviously. Let's get on Teamspeak some time Xiolablu3. Will look for your sig. on HL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely, I will try and remember to use HL (I usually just use All seeing eye, cos if the servers ful, then you can leave it trying to connect and it will connect whent ehe is a space.)

On HL my name is -=Xiola=- CU on there, look forward to it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flying_Nutcase
07-10-2006, 08:12 AM
rnzoli,

Hope you can pull it all together. Great idea and I reckon it'll work.

Good luck with it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

AKA_TAGERT
07-10-2006, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UberDemon:
His solution is pretty sound too.
1 - control of Online Games will be in the server or host, so if no user mods are allowed, then only stock options are available... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>We can only hope an pray that is not true! Because if it is true, the IL2 series online will be dead for the same reasons CFS3 is dead. To put it another way.. if you think the 4.04 and 4.05 thing split the comunity.. that is nothing compared to what this would do.

justflyin
07-10-2006, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UberDemon:
OK...

So that is two separate people who admited to successfully decoding, changing and recompiling SFSs, right? (One from Finland and one from Russia).

I imagine that was coming, after all, Oleg in his forum said that the future of the IL-2 engine was going to contain user made content as an option.

His solution is pretty sound too.
1 - control of Online Games will be in the server or host, so if no user mods are allowed, then only stock options are available...
2 - This satisfies offliners who want to cater their experiences according to their needs (say, fly a P-36 in offline with a P-40 cockpit).
3 - Onliners who agree on allowing mods can enjoy their modifications...
4 - And those onliners who want only what is available as released by Ubi/Maddox/1C, will be able to have just that... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Demon, I must have missed that, but would you be so kind as to point me to where you read that the .SFS file was indeed able to be changed and recompiled for online play with current versions?

I hadn't actually read that part yet, only the suspicion of such.

Scharnhorst1943
07-10-2006, 11:27 AM
Target, I think you missunderstand. Correct me if I am wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but my take on the situation was that the hack only allows users to change interface. So adding a random cockpit ot a random AI plane makes it flyable. I thought that the hack only allowed things like this and not the changing of speed exc... and if it does, you will not be at the same version and therefore unable to play online.

In this case I do agree with UberDemon that it will extend the life of the serries.

If A) this hack is true (which it is, we have photographic proof) and B) it is widely available, that means every plane in the game is now flyable as long as you add one of the flyable cockpits to it.

Flyable B17, B24, B29, all B25's, KI46, Me210, FW200, all russian medium bombers, all AI planes from Manchuria and '46 addon, not to mention flyable Kate, Avenger, Jill, Pe8 ...

That would absolutly make up for the lacking offline play. Besides, we don't even know for sure if you can repack it all and be at the same version as an unhacked one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

This is differnt than CFS3, because even with the hack, we are unable to add new airplanes, just add flyable cockpits to the AI ones.

That is my take on it, IF I am wrong, tell me and I will stand an enlightened man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AKA_TAGERT
07-10-2006, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
Target, I think you missunderstand. Correct me if I am wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but my take on the situation was that the hack only allows users to change interface. So adding a random cockpit ot a random AI plane makes it flyable. I thought that the hack only allowed things like this and not the changing of speed exc... and if it does, you will not be at the same version and therefore unable to play online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If that is what Uber ment.. then yes I did missunderstand! Enabling a cockpit or tweaking the user interface.. or anything other than the FM and DM would be great! As long as nobody by Oleg can tweak the FM and DM than I think that would be great and not hurt the comunity online.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
In this case I do agree with UberDemon that it will extend the life of the serries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If, then yes I agree also! There is alot about the GUI that Blows donkeys! Heck.. you can not even calibrate all your joysticks, throttle, and rudders in the current POS GUI! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
If A) this hack is true (which it is, we have photographic proof) and B) it is widely available, that means every plane in the game is now flyable as long as you add one of the flyable cockpits to it.

Flyable B17, B24, B29, all B25's, KI46, Me210, FW200, all russian medium bombers, all AI planes from Manchuria and '46 addon, not to mention flyable Kate, Avenger, Jill, Pe8 ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That would be cool! It is something alot of the bomber flyers have been begging Oleg to do for years now!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
That would absolutly make up for the lacking offline play. Besides, we don't even know for sure if you can repack it all and be at the same version as an unhacked one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>true

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
This is differnt than CFS3, because even with the hack, we are unable to add new airplanes, just add flyable cockpits to the AI ones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If that is the case, as long as nobody can tweak the FM or DM of any plane the this would be a good thing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
That is my take on it, IF I am wrong, tell me and I will stand an enlightened man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dont know if your wrong or right! But, in light of the fact that Ivan has not got back to us.. or any mod for that mater on this subject it makes me think there is something to it.

Worf101
07-10-2006, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Let the hysteria begin.......NOW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously folks, let's keep our wits about us </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know Chuck... you consistently speak/write and act like an adult, rational human being around here... It's refreshing but ah's don'ts like it!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

LOL, keep up the good work and keep em flying.

Da "Just Back From Vacation" Worfster

UberDemon
07-10-2006, 10:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UberDemon:
His solution is pretty sound too.
1 - control of Online Games will be in the server or host, so if no user mods are allowed, then only stock options are available... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>We can only hope an pray that is not true! Because if it is true, the IL2 series online will be dead for the same reasons CFS3 is dead. To put it another way.. if you think the 4.04 and 4.05 thing split the comunity.. that is nothing compared to what this would do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe (or hope) that mods for IL-2 engine would be any more or any less dividing than any other matter-of-preference issue that have generated such heated debates in the community from the very beginning, such as:
- Snap vs Padlock vs Pan vs TrackIR View
- Easy vs Medium vs Realistic settings
- People with PF only who cannot connect to FB/AEP/PF games

My take on it is that if things are that bad people would simply leave and find another sim that meets their expectations... but after 4 years I still see a great majority of people that have been here from the start... maybe not any happier, but somehow still here.

UberDemon
07-10-2006, 10:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by justflyin:
Demon, I must have missed that, but would you be so kind as to point me to where you read that the .SFS file was indeed able to be changed and recompiled for online play with current versions?

I hadn't actually read that part yet, only the suspicion of such. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I was not clear, but I did not say that someone recompiled the SFS for online play with current version.

The fellow at SIMHQ ( http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....c;f=144;t=005391;p=3 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=005391;p=3) ) mentioned that there is a danger of the non-modified version not detecting the modified version, so obviously he does not wish to release such a tool.

The Online issues (potential future of mod support for IL-2 engine and online connection) that I mentioned were paraphrased from Oleg himself in his forum:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/8371080943/p/14

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We also plan to give third party more free hands to build themselves without our control objects, small online maps, planes and cockpits....

DON'WORRY!
This means that we will have two rooms for multiplay:

1. Standard our staff room where custom made third party planes can't fly...
2. the room of online gameplay for our standard set and the planes of third party...

If user community and we ourselves will find that som guy of third party did the right job, then we will move such plane in a standard set as well.

In this case we will be more free to make new things and feature than to support third party models and community will decide which plane to play or not from third party...

I also expect to replace by such things the industry around the MS add-ons

It is in all we plan and it isn't all that will be released righ with the release of the sim.
Say tools we will release after ther release of the sim itself... and first tools will be for objects and maps, then later for planes... if possible

Note for the third party developers about these features of BoB:
we don't give full access to source code. We give access just for some basic tunings of FM and animations which will be possible to use only in single play custom made special room missions and only in special online room for such planes.
If it will be not possible to make such a scheme then we will cancel the work over custom planes... and will keep just objects and maps.
And will repeat we don't give ability to create the big maps, which we will keep for ourselves that to make new sims of new theaters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UberDemon
07-10-2006, 11:11 PM
Scharnhorst1943 / AKA_TAGERT,

I guess it is just a matter of waiting and seeing. It is ultimately up to Oleg what he wants to make available to the public.

Scharnhorst1943
07-11-2006, 01:53 AM
Right on Target http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I can see the point all you online guys have, though. And truthfully it is a valid one. I personally fly offline, because I like going through the war in the dynamic campaign. I would probably like online flying, but I would want to be part of a squadron with good coordination. Also, I have restricted time right now, so I only really hunt and peck at it.

But despite what people say or think, you online fellas have ligitimate and valid concerns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-HH-Quazi
07-11-2006, 02:51 AM
Shoot, I can't believe the numbers. Less than 10% that play this sim online? Geesh! My big question to that is why? And flying dynamic offline campaigns all alone, depending on AI to get the job done rather than hooking up with a couple friends online and having them lead those critical flights? I mean a live body leading the escort flight that is watching over my arse to target and home? Someone I can holler at when I am in trouble with a bandit that has slipped down onto my six? And this is with just one friend. How about having five m8s working in real time on comms watching out for each other, and this is against AI? How about live bodies on both sides, and they are all your friends. Yea they may be flying for the other side, but so what. I'd rather be shot down by a live body that I call my friend than from an AI. HEHE

I mean I am sure offline has its' place, but flying by myself, totally against AI? Just seems so boring. That is why I can't understand the percentage of online players vs. offline players. I think that if offline players would just put their inhibitions down, or whatever is scaring\keeping them away from giving online flying a shot, get with a squadron or a few laid back m8s that put real life before any scheduled flight times the squadron may have, and enjoy each others company on the days a m8 can make it, and experience the comradrie and the teamwork for achieving mission objectives, that percentage of online players may get a decent bump and we would have many more excited, renewed, m8s hanging out on the forums.

Just thinking out loud here. I mean no disrespect to any one. I would just like to see the number of online players increase a little. Imho, you guys are totally missing out on one aspect of this sim that takes immersiveness and satisfaction of accomplishment to a whole new level. And the big plus to all of this are the friends you will make that will probably last as long as you want them to. ~S~ all!

rnzoli
07-11-2006, 03:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think that if offline players would just put their inhibitions down </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quazi, I have been thinking about the same, especially because my kids do almost everything online so spontaneously and with such ease, that I can hardly see a reason for the online portion of IL2 user base stagnating.

However, the answer may glare in your above quoted line. This sim appeals for a higher age-range, and believe me, it is really very difficult or even impossible to "put your inhibitions down" when you are a mature person already, with a given set of beliefs and attitudes.

One big online inhibitor is the missing 'socialization' stage before engaging, i.e., very hard to start playing with total strangers, but it is also hard to make friends with online flyers unless you go online first. A catch 22.

The strength of those inhibitors even shows online, some online pilots simple refuse to get in verbal contact with others, and hardly ever type anything on the chat line. Considering them, I am not surprized about the offliner's inclination to blast away at an inhuman, machine-controlled AI - that may be boring at times, but always safely within our comfort zones.

Woodstock_69
07-11-2006, 06:04 AM
I posted this message a few day's ago but it was removed... Kind of strange i think...

Anyhow... This is bad news...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bearcat99
07-11-2006, 06:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
Target, I think you missunderstand. Correct me if I am wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but my take on the situation was that the hack only allows users to change interface. So adding a random cockpit ot a random AI plane makes it flyable. I thought that the hack only allowed things like this and not the changing of speed exc... and if it does, you will not be at the same version and therefore unable to play online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If that is what Uber ment.. then yes I did missunderstand! Enabling a cockpit or tweaking the user interface.. or anything other than the FM and DM would be great! As long as nobody by Oleg can tweak the FM and DM than I think that would be great and not hurt the comunity online.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
In this case I do agree with UberDemon that it will extend the life of the serries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If, then yes I agree also! There is alot about the GUI that Blows donkeys! Heck.. you can not even calibrate all your joysticks, throttle, and rudders in the current POS GUI! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
If A) this hack is true (which it is, we have photographic proof) and B) it is widely available, that means every plane in the game is now flyable as long as you add one of the flyable cockpits to it.

Flyable B17, B24, B29, all B25's, KI46, Me210, FW200, all russian medium bombers, all AI planes from Manchuria and '46 addon, not to mention flyable Kate, Avenger, Jill, Pe8 ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That would be cool! It is something alot of the bomber flyers have been begging Oleg to do for years now!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
That would absolutly make up for the lacking offline play. Besides, we don't even know for sure if you can repack it all and be at the same version as an unhacked one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>true

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
This is differnt than CFS3, because even with the hack, we are unable to add new airplanes, just add flyable cockpits to the AI ones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If that is the case, as long as nobody can tweak the FM or DM of any plane the this would be a good thing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
That is my take on it, IF I am wrong, tell me and I will stand an enlightened man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dont know if your wrong or right! But, in light of the fact that Ivan has not got back to us.. or any mod for that mater on this subject it makes me think there is something to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Tagert.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif Did I say that!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-HH-Quazi
07-11-2006, 08:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think that if offline players would just put their inhibitions down </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quazi, I have been thinking about the same, especially because my kids do almost everything online so spontaneously and with such ease, that I can hardly see a reason for the online portion of IL2 user base stagnating.

However, the answer may glare in your above quoted line. This sim appeals for a higher age-range, and believe me, it is really very difficult or even impossible to "put your inhibitions down" when you are a mature person already, with a given set of beliefs and attitudes.

One big online inhibitor is the missing 'socialization' stage before engaging, i.e., very hard to start playing with total strangers, but it is also hard to make friends with online flyers unless you go online first. A catch 22.

The strength of those inhibitors even shows online, some online pilots simple refuse to get in verbal contact with others, and hardly ever type anything on the chat line. Considering them, I am not surprized about the offliner's inclination to blast away at an inhuman, machine-controlled AI - that may be boring at times, but always safely within our comfort zones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for putting that out there rnzoli. I bet what you said is "Tis true. Very,very, true". And sad at the same time. I mean I am 41. The vast majority of m8s I fly with regularly are over 30, with several in their 60's. Shoot, the last JO IL2 BFS class I helped teach had two m8s in their early 80's. And I would say that many, many, if not half or better of squadrons are made up of older m8s. But I do understand about breaking the ice, making new friends, being shy or not interested in any RL contact. And it is a darn shame imo.

I would say there is truth in what you posted m8, and it does make me look at the reasons "why" m8s don't do the online thing in a new light. Thanks m8.

justflyin
07-11-2006, 08:50 AM
Thanks Demon. I understand what you posted much clearer now.

IMO, unfortunately, I believe the tool HAS been leaked and will be spread around. The same thing happened in Jane's WWII Fighters when the SQZip program got leaked and spread like wildfire. Even Jiri's HL file check didn't work because it was possible to have two ww2.sqs files in the folder and it would only check the good one. Then, just before launch, the modded one would be renamed to ww2.sqs.

Until V4.07, there is a major risk of mods being flown online in wars, co-ops, dogfight servers, anywhere...and there is ABSOLUTELY nothing that can be done about it until we have a files.sfs check in the code to protect our servers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Sadly, I know what evil lurks in the hearts of online pilots. 100% proof in Jane's and 100% proof coming for this game shortly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

RaVe_N
07-11-2006, 01:53 PM
Its a conspiracy I tell you its a way to launch BOB and Kill il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

cant you see?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
They are slowly killing this sim with pay patches and leaked cracks . The patches are to test out BOB The leaks are to kill confidence in the security of our beloved sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

olag and his posy have it all under controll never fear...
BOB will be the King of all Sims and il2 will become a memory a 2gig memory but a memory just the same...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

UberDemon
07-11-2006, 10:18 PM
Despite all fears, I think that the IL-2/FB/AEP/PF/Pe-2 (etc...) engine has a lot of life ahead. Sure we'll have modding added to the mix, but I don't think it will kill it. In fact, it may revive it.

Squadron membership and agreements between squadrons will keep most honest I think. Free for all servers won't be much different than what we have now... If a P-80 appeared in a DF when IL-2 was released, it would have caused the end of the world... yet it was released officially in AEP... and it is a part of life now... a plane that is there to be flown...

In the end, it will be up to the hosts and servers to define what is acceptable, whether it is types of planes, or mods. If there are leaks that make it miserable for gameplay, Oleg's team will fix it.

For offline... who cares. Let the players play as they wish. (They and I do it today by changing difficulty parameters). For online players, put the right controls and limitations.

It is all good, and it will all be OK. Darn it... I am having a half-glass is full kind of day. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
07-11-2006, 11:03 PM
-HH- :: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But I do understand about breaking the ice, making new friends, being shy or not interested in any RL contact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Offline players goto webboards to talk about their sim, and they don't need competitive Online dogfight shooting for real life social interaction. Perhaps, Online players do. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

As Offline players interact on webboards after gameplay, the *only* thing Online gaming can offer is humoid-vs-humoid competition during the gameplay, and offer nothing else to attract people, as Oleg's Online play must sacrifice features of air combat simulation to preserve "cheat free" Online humoid-vs-humoid gameplay at all costs. The best example was Oleg crippling his own flight models by disabling elevator trim to try to prevent Online cheating, and the Online community getting hostile at Offline players hoping for a working elevator trim in their flight simulator -- the very people paying for the sim that allows free Online play. Everything in the Oleg's simulation of air combat must be open to sacrifice for the protection of "cheat free" Online gameplay, since perhaps the most significant social interaction found in Online gameplay is, indeed, cheating other players. Thus, Offline players goto other sims, or games, leaving an often hostile and seemingly indifferent Online community (except JetBuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) far behind.

And that reminds me -- we will need to bump up ElAuren's BoB Pay-To-Play Poll thread, so all sim developers everywhere can see how *much* the FB/PF Online flight sim community actually cares about "cheat-free" Online social interaction.

fly_zo
07-12-2006, 01:56 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RaVe_N:
Its a conspiracy I tell you its a way to launch BOB and Kill il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

cant you see?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
They are slowly killing this sim with pay patches and leaked cracks . The patches are to test out BOB The leaks are to kill confidence in the security of our beloved sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

olag and his posy have it all under controll never fear...
BOB will be the King of all Sims and il2 will become a memory a 2gig memory but a memory just the same...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif[/QUOTE

100% right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

rnzoli
07-12-2006, 01:58 AM
LEXX, you are completely forgetting about coops, you are also speaking as if everybody was a cheater online and that all competition is hostile. That's plain wrong, you seem to be eager to justify your real inhibitors whatever those may be.

But "players talking about their sims on webboards" is quite laughable, gives me the image of "Offline" Olimpic Games, where participants do their things alone at home and then post their results on a webboard in order to select a winner. Or a FIFA Soccer World Championship, where the teams stay home, play against static crash-test dummies on the field, and posting their final score on the official FIFA webboard.

The bottom line is that competiton, including team-based competition is part of human nature, so labelling everyone a cheater just because of the desire to compete is not fair at all. Without competition, we would be still sitting in caves. Even the internet webboards are a result of competition, mind you.

By the way, isn't the trim issue fixed with the 4.0x patches? It's back on the slider and not delayed anymore. Or do I misunderstand something.

joeap
07-12-2006, 02:09 AM
You know rnzoli, I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't see why you must point the finger at offline players (well it seems to be general) because some unkind and incorrect things were said about online players.

rnzoli
07-12-2006, 02:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaVe_N:
Its a conspiracy I tell you its a way to launch BOB and Kill il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

cant you see?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
They are slowly killing this sim with pay patches and leaked cracks . The patches are to test out BOB The leaks are to kill confidence in the security of our beloved sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

olag and his posy have it all under controll never fear...
BOB will be the King of all Sims and il2 will become a memory a 2gig memory but a memory just the same...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If this is supposed to be conspiracy, it's the worst one I have ever heard about. Russians are way better at this subject, be very sure! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

One problem is that BoB is not ready yet, so any online cheat possibility is going to hurt the add-on sales. It's like pulling the trigger at the wrong time... while the crosshairs are over their own foot... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

rnzoli
07-12-2006, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
You know rnzoli, I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't see why you must point the finger at offline players (well it seems to be general) because some unkind and incorrect things were said about online players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My apologies for all offline players, my statements were supposed to stay in the yellow range of 'challenging', not the red range of 'offending'.

The trouble is that I like this game quite much, I like the people I am playing with on a regular basis, hence I am seriously concerned about threat which may ruin the foundations for the multiplayer feature. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

fly_zo
07-12-2006, 02:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaVe_N:
Its a conspiracy I tell you its a way to launch BOB and Kill il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

"cant you see?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
They are slowly killing this sim with pay patches and leaked cracks . The patches are to test out BOB The leaks are to kill confidence in the security of our beloved sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

olag and his posy have it all under controll never fear...
BOB will be the King of all Sims and il2 will become a memory a 2gig memory but a memory just the same...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Everyone said, loud enough for the others to hear: "Look at the Emperor's new clothes. They're beautiful!"
"What a marvellous train!"
"And the colors! The colors of that beautiful fabric! I have never seen anything like it in my life!" They all tried to conceal their disappointment at not being able to see the clothes, and since nobody was willing to admit his own stupidity and incompetence, they all behaved as the two scoundrels had predicted.
A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.
"The Emperor is naked," he said.
"Fool!" his father reprimanded, running after him. "Don't talk nonsense!" He grabbed his child and took him away. But the boy's remark, which had been heard by the bystanders, was repeated over and over again until everyone cried:
"The boy is right! The Emperor is naked! It's true!" H.C.A

LEXX_Luthor
07-12-2006, 04:24 AM
rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But "players talking about their sims on webboards" is quite laughable, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You and a few other Online players are doing the same webboard interaction in parts of this thread -- exchanging ideas on a webboard, planning, making ideas that create better Online play, ie...modding the sim...within limits. That is the most sad part of your laughing at webboard interaction, as Offline players engage in the same webboard activity as Online players -- to share ideas on how to better their simming experience.

rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I like the people I am playing with on a regular basis,... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is normal human group behavior that we all learned as children. Offline players are not entirely in that Online group, although they do pay for that Online group's free Online play.

We have not forgotten "coops," as we all know they too must sacrifice air combat simulation to provide the primary focus on creating a "cheat free" human-vs-human Online gaming environment.

rnzoli
07-12-2006, 05:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That is the most sad part your laughing at webboard interaction, as Offline players engage in the same webboard activity as Online players -- to share ideas on how to better their simming experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would even extend on that, onliners are more active on the internet, think of not just UBI, but also the squadron pages and and server-specific forums. You may have missed the point: what feels a bit ironic is to talk about simming online, but refrain from actually doing it online. * offensive joke self-censored *

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That is normal human group behavior that we all learned as children, and Offline players are not in that group, although they pay for that Online group's free Online play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Offline players also learnt it as childen, we are all in that group, the differences lie in the circumstantial inhibitors, not in the general motivators, see the evidence of this reflected in the stories of people successfully switching from offline-only to online-as-well.

Regarding the payment, you are on a totally wrong track, the different features are bundled in this game and you accepted that when you purchased your copy of IL2. You paid for what you used so far. It would be also nonsense, if I would ask you to pay me the value of those single mission offline campaigns that I never used on my hard drive, or the value of airplanes that I have never flown. That's wrong logic. As we knowingly bought a product with all features bundled, if we don't use parts of it, that's our loss, and not a cross-funding for others, who use it. Don't try to make it look that way, it won't work. If you have a problem with this, you have a problem with the bundling itself, which is decided by Oleg and 1C. I know that decision was not in the favour of your current interests, but maybe in the favour of strategic positioning of the game on the sim market.

RAF_Samson
07-18-2006, 10:36 PM
I have to agree with x6BL_Brando, we shouldn't be patting these hackers on the back for cheating. That definitely sends out the wrong signal.

slo_1_2_3
07-19-2006, 12:33 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif