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clint-ruin
01-01-2005, 04:22 PM
Who has something to say about the new game from Paradox?

Looks amazing in terms of scope. 1c did the FSU market release from what the website says.

http://hearts-of-iron.wargamer.com/faq.html

clint-ruin
01-01-2005, 04:22 PM
Who has something to say about the new game from Paradox?

Looks amazing in terms of scope. 1c did the FSU market release from what the website says.

http://hearts-of-iron.wargamer.com/faq.html

J30Vader
01-01-2005, 05:32 PM
The link takes you to HOI-1. They have a preview of HOI2. The first took 6 patches plus a community mod or two to make it fairly playable. It has been the most slammed at game Paradox ever made. They have a history of releasing games that will require 1 or 2 patches just to make it semi playable.

For instance, in HOI 1.0, you could not attack any ship in port. No Pearl Harbor, no Taranto. And you could sink every merchantship in the Royal Navy, camp every ship in you fleet around England, take all their ports, and not cut them off from trading. This last is a feature of HOI and Victoria.

I played HOI 1.06. I stuck the Pacific Fleet off the coast of Japan. Sinking merchants left and right. And no reaction from the AI. Meanwhile, Germany took Chezoslovakia and half of Poland as France overran Italy and England took Denmark.

Don't get me started on Victoria.

clint-ruin
01-01-2005, 05:50 PM
Yeah the platinum pack of HoI came out sept 2004 from the looks of the site here:

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/heartsofiron.asp

Was wondering if it was now worth picking up after a few patches. Mentions the AI has been improved and less curious things going on in the game among others.

altstiff
01-01-2005, 07:34 PM
Is it like Axis and Allies? I play the board game version of A&A and it rocks.

ganondorf29
01-01-2005, 08:22 PM
I would wait for Hearts of Iron 2, which is supposed to come out Jan 4 in North America. Heres a link for the demo http://www.gamershell.com/news/19111.html

JR_Greenhorn
01-01-2005, 11:33 PM
I've been playing HOI since 1.0 and I've just loved it. For me, it's similar to the FB/AEP/PF series, in that each patch makes significant differences in gameplay, usually improving. There seems to be good support from the developers, and they are seen on their forums just like we have seen here (However their forums are more civilized than here).

There have been some issues, and many have been addressed. Exploits, bugs, and AI behaviour are as hotly debated in that community as FMs, DMs, and AI behaviour are here. (Is there any computer game that doesn't receive relentless critisizm of its AI?)



Enjoyment of HOI pretty much depends on how you deal with simulations of history. If you'd be appalled if famous historical battles didn't occur, or if alliances weren't always the same nations they were historically, you should probably stay away from HOI.


The game generally follows the course of the real war. You can pretty much count on Germany invading Poland in 1939, and a Russo-German war around 1941. However, the Molotov-Ribbendorf Pact (sp?) and other historical events don't always turn out historically (both AI and humans have choices on thier outcomes).

If you behave as the nation you're playing historically did, there is a good chance the game will play out pretty close to history. Of course the battles will be different.

One major thing to keep in mind regarding HOI is its scope. The game is billed as a "Grand Strategy Game," which describes its massive scope. All nations in the world at the time are there and playable. The navies include single capital ships like BBs, CVs, and CAs, as well as flotillas of smaller ships like subs and destroyers. The smallest land unit size is a division, so you won't be guiding any special forces on sabatoge missions and such. However, you will be orchestrating huge naval and land battles, combining forces into amphibious invasuions to obtain a foothold, and waging campaigns to obtain or deny strategic resources like rubber and oil.

The way air units and air warfare is handled is one of the weaker aspects of the game and one of the most hotly debated. I think that is of particular note to players here. In HOI, the performance of a single squadron of fighters really has little effect on the overall strategic bombing campaign. There were some major problems with paratroopers early on, but I think they have been taken care of now--I like how it's been handled.

Also, the game is only partially about its battles. Resources are a huge factor, as is the industrial capacity of your nation and its provinces. Along with resources and industry, there is a the manner of keeping your divisions supplied--always a major factor in the battles. There is a rather large tech tree, and while some are just confounded by it, I think it is overly simplified--your mileage will vary. You also have diplomatic relations to control, including alliances, influencing nations, sharing technology, and puppet regimes to name a few.

The timeline is 1936-1948, so how you deal with the Spainsh Civil War can affect how WWII goes for your nation. Also, depending upon how the game is played, it can get into the cold war after the Axis is defeated.


Should you try HOI? That's up to you. If you think you would like the possiblity of playing out "what if" scenarios, or would like to try waging war as a specific nation and try to do better than it did historically, you'll probably love HOI. If you think it would really bother you if the Japanese didn't attack your fleets at Pearl Harbor, or if the British could invade Fortress Europe without the Americans, you should proabably try anther game.

HOI 2 is coming out soon, which should mean that the original HOI should see reduced prices if it hasn't already. If you do decide to try the original HOI first, do yourself and the game a favour and patch it up first.



Sorry this post got so long, but I have seen some interest in HOI around here recently, and I thought I would say a bit about it (I've barely scratched the surface). Keep in mind my biases, as I like the game about as much as I like FB. In the same manner, keep in mind how you've seen FB/AEP/PF reviewed before you decide what to think of a HOI review. If you are curious about HOI, ask me, and I'll gladly discuss anything I can regarding the game.
I think many of you here would be interested in this game, and also think its community and developer support is very similar to our Il-2 community and support is here.

clint-ruin
01-01-2005, 11:40 PM
Yeah, the depth of this thing seems quite astounding - more worried that it will be a War in the Pacific style thing where there is just so much stuff happening each turn [or whatever] that I'd get lost. But jeez it sounds deep from browsing the forums. The platinum edition comes with something called Core [user mod or something?] which apparently improves the look of the thing a bit beyond the screenshots too.

I've downloaded the demo for HOI2 now and I'll have a play with it in a bit :>

JR_Greenhorn
01-02-2005, 12:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
Yeah, the depth of this thing seems quite astounding - more worried that it will be a War in the Pacific style thing where there is just so much stuff happening each turn [or whatever] that I'd get lost. But jeez it sounds deep from browsing the forums. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Its not as deep as it is large in scope. Micromanagement is a problem many players, including myself, struggle with, but the tools are there to avoid it.

As you learn the game, you can do alright if you just ignore a certain aspect at first. I chose landlocked nations at first, so I could learn to battle with armies without having to worry about naval battles and amphibious invasions. The learning curve for HOI is somewhat steep, but not to any Il-2 player.


There isn't turns per se, but you can pause at any time. I think there are pause options for multiplayer, but the AI doesn't care what you do. Also, once a battle has begun, the only thing you can do is send in more divisions or air support, or, should it become necessary, order your units to retreat. Otherwise it's hands off.
You set times for attacks, so you can set many different armies that have different distances to travel to all attack a front at the same time. You can also set air bombardment to begin hours before, and move ships into position for shore bombardment. All this can be scheduled at once, then you mainly just upause, wait and watch.


For instance, a major component of naval operations is locating and attacking enemy fleets. You can move your ships sea zone by sea zone if you feel you must, but the game allows you to set waypoints and a "patrol" mission for your ships, so you can set and forget. When you've loaded air squadrons on your carriers, they automatically scramble when the fleet is attacked.

There are message settings to help too. I have many important events, like an attack on my units or a declaration of war, set to autopause, so I don't have to worry about my fleet getting sunk while I'm watching a land battle.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
The platinum edition comes with something called Core [user mod or something?] which apparently improves the look of the thing a bit beyond the screenshots too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>CORE is an acronym for Community Open Resource Exchange. It is an ongoing project, but more than a mod (there are mods for the game out there too). I don't know all the particulars, but I think CORE is an unofficial project of the community, but the developers are helpful, maybe even directly supportive of it.

I haven't yet tried CORE, as it requires a reinstall, and I'm still playing out one of my games. It sounds interesting though.

I do know that CORE has many more events (events include: elections, pacts, Lend-Lease, etc.), and the tech tree has been redone. For instance, in "vanilla HOI" (as its called) the only way to increase fighter range is to research and upgrade to newer plane models (such as P-36 to P-51). However, in CORE, there is a drop tanks tech that can be researched to extend the range of existing fighter squadrons. CORE has its own website, and a mission statement of sorts that helps describe what the project is all about, and how it differs from vanilla HOI.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
I've downloaded the demo for HOI2 now and I'll have a play with it in a bit :&gt; <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I haven't tried the HOI 2 demo yet, but I have read about some major changes they're making from HOI original. I'm still having fun with HOI original, so I'll buy HOI 2 when I get a better computer for PF. I can't wait (but alas, I must).

ForkTailedDevil
01-02-2005, 12:58 AM
I have been playing HOI for longer than I have been playing IL2/FB/ACES/PF. I love HOI and have eagerly looked forward to each patch. Just like with FB. I can't wait for HOI 2 to come out. One of the best WW2 games of all time.