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View Full Version : will there be a day/night cycle?



moulinoux
04-12-2004, 08:18 AM
If you look out through the window in the daylight pic (u got to have the bigger bonus pic to see these details) then you wil see that the place on that pic is actually the same place (but in a building) like the other pic u get from the bonus. (prove me wrong if you can)

What I'm saying is that it would be realy cool if you'll get day night cycles in the game!

whadya think?

moulinoux
04-12-2004, 08:18 AM
If you look out through the window in the daylight pic (u got to have the bigger bonus pic to see these details) then you wil see that the place on that pic is actually the same place (but in a building) like the other pic u get from the bonus. (prove me wrong if you can)

What I'm saying is that it would be realy cool if you'll get day night cycles in the game!

whadya think?

ybesimple
04-12-2004, 09:52 AM
it would be cool to have day night cycles. and after the sky from teledahn it seems like a natural upgrade.

Cierdwyn
04-12-2004, 10:27 AM
I had noticed that too, out that window. It looks like it's that lake-like area with those buildings around it, in daylight. There are day and night cycles on Eder Gira in Uru, it would be a logical step forward in subsequent games in the Myst series to continue to do so.

Cierdwyn

Dillenger69
04-12-2004, 11:34 AM
Depending on how much of the DVD they fill up it's certianly plausable to have day/night cycles pre rendered and waiting to be displayed.

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KaokanDBZ
04-12-2004, 02:44 PM
I dunno... Consider the math:

-We have one fully prerendered 360-degree panoramic image... with compression, possibly. Probably around 500kb per shot.

-This particular shot has 5 variables that could each be in one of two states at any given time. That's 15 x 500kb which = 7500kb on this shot

-This shot needs to be rebdered for 5 distinct times of day: Dawn, Morning, Noon, Evening, and Night. That's 5 x 7500kb which = 37500kb for just this one shot.

-Let's say there are around 250 completely unique shots in the entire game. 250 x 37500kb = 9375000kb. That's 9.4gb spent on renders alone, no music or in-game movies or programming considered. That estimate is a little high, so you can cut off a few gigs for those shots that don't have as many states associated with them, but that still a lot.

Alahmnat
04-12-2004, 02:51 PM
Another factor to consider when calculating things is that often times, objects in various states simply have smaller "cropped" renders of the image with just the object itself, which is then overlayed onto the full image.

That said, I'm really not sure how they'd pull off transitions between times of day while maintaining ray-traced shadows, lighting changes, etc. without sudden state jumps from noon to 4pm between clicks. That hurts my head.

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OTAKULeader
04-12-2004, 07:21 PM
If they did find a way to do all that not only would it take them forever to do but just think of all the requirments for the game just imagin you would need tons of memorey a newr version of direct x that dosnt exist yet an extreamly good extreamly high speed cdrom and most likely its would have to be a dvd rom instead not to mention quite a few other things so as nice as it might be to have and how much better the game would be and how relistic I realy dont see it happening with this one maby the one after next.

mszv
04-12-2004, 09:28 PM
I've never seen a 2D game (with prerendered images) that had a day/night cycle. That's a heck of a lot of prerendering.

Syberia 2 (just out) has some cool environmental effects on top of the 2D prerendered backgrounds - snow falling, footsteps in the snow, reflections from puddles (as the main charater passes by), that sort of thing. The scenery was 2D, prerendered (like I think this game will be), but the environmental effects added to the immersive quality of the game. I hope Myst Revelation does something like that.

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Regards,
mszv - play as amarez

Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

Phen1
04-13-2004, 12:41 AM
Have any of you guys played realMYST? I actually can't stand the thought of day/night cycles. They drove me crazy! I hate them! My problem is, I don't have a good reason why I hate them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

moulinoux
04-13-2004, 03:25 AM
Well I'm a 3dmodeler and know that it should take to many resources to make day night cycles.
But on the other hand I know how to optimize the images so they are suited for a day/night cycle. some of thoose optimizations they probably already use.
but i think that there are far too many shadows to make it (even with optimization) good looking enough.
so what do u guys think of the daylight pic then?
maybe u get there in another part of the game when it isn't dark?

Deledrius
04-13-2004, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mszv:
I've never seen a 2D game (with prerendered images) that had a day/night cycle. That's a heck of a lot of prerendering.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I take it then that you never played a Sierra adventure game. They had hand-painted backgrounds that could transition from day to night using some clever palette-shifting and talented artists.

Such a thing with a pre-rendered image in so many more than 256 colours is by no means as easy, but it may be possible if they're clever enough.

Phen1
04-13-2004, 05:50 AM
Which Sierra adventure game is this? One of the King's Quests? I love those games! But I can't think of one that has day-night cycles.

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

KaokanDBZ
04-13-2004, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deledrius:
I take it then that you never played a Sierra adventure game. They had hand-painted backgrounds that could transition from day to night using some clever palette-shifting and talented artists.

Such a thing with a pre-rendered image in so many more than 256 colours is by no means as easy, but it may be possible if they're clever enough.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ha ha! I was just about to point out the Sierra games too! My absolute favorites were the Quest For Glory games.... great games, with very nice day/night transitions too.

Phen1
04-13-2004, 10:07 PM
Have any of you guys ever played the King's Quest games? 6 is the best, but they are all good. THere are a lot of good puzzles like Myst, but then again not like Myst. If y'know what I mean. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

Unknown-One
04-14-2004, 08:07 PM
Idea here!

What if its a 2D prerendered image, but with 3d realtime overlays rendering the shadows, and day/nite cycle?

best of both worlds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Alahmnat
04-14-2004, 09:54 PM
How're you going to change the lighting on the terrain if it's pre-rendered without a LOT of graphics manipulation? There's more to day/night than just shadow angles and sky color...

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Phen1
04-15-2004, 12:35 AM
Yeah, after all this I think that there won't be day/night, which is just fine by me!

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

moulinoux
04-15-2004, 02:29 AM
ok ok.., so probably there's no cycle
but what about the daylight pic.., it's there for some reason.., do u think u'll get there later in the game?

come on speculations! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

trickster721
04-20-2004, 01:38 PM
Well, the images are already being rendered into a sphere. And we know they're adding other realtime effects, that this is going to be a breakthrough hybrid engine. And Kha'tie hinted that there was something going on with day/night transitions.

I think it would be easy to do.

Of course, there might be something even more exciting going on...

Cierdwyn
04-20-2004, 02:41 PM
Moulinoux,

Maybe you could go and have a visit with the Revelation Team on the General Discussion and Speculation Forum. Since it's not a very well hidden secret, especially since we could notice the day and night change in the screens, maybe, if we're all really nice, Pat and / or Pascal would be nice enough to confirm this for us.

Just a thought,
Cierdwyn

Pat_09
04-20-2004, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Maybe you could go and have a visit with the Revelation Team on the General Discussion and Speculation Forum. Since it's not a very well hidden secret, especially since we could notice the day and night change in the screens, maybe, if we're all really nice, Pat and / or Pascal would be nice enough to confirm this for us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was always against the idea of showing a day screenshot... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Leads to a lot of speculation though, right? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

- Maybe they're different Ages?
- Maybe they're old & recent renders of an Age?
- Maybe it's a fautly render?
- Maybe it's just really bright in there?
- Maybe I'm fishing for explanations?
- Maybe it's just a test to see if you guys would like to have night & day on an Age?
- Maybe there's a spaceship outside the window? (with big headlights)
- Maybe we rendered everything twice?
- Maybe the shot was touched up in photoshop?
- Maybe we DO have night/day cycles and time now has an effect on puzzle resolution? And maybe that's the big differentiating element in Revelation! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
- Maybe you guys will have to choose your own answer out of what's listed above?
- Maybe you guys will have to come up with more clever answers than the ones I've just listed above?

Cierdwyn
04-20-2004, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> - Maybe they're different Ages?
- Maybe they're old & recent renders of an Age?
- Maybe it's a fautly render?
- Maybe it's just really bright in there?
- Maybe I'm fishing for explanations?
- Maybe it's just a test to see if you guys would like to have night & day on an Age?
- Maybe there's a spaceship outside the window? (with big headlights)
- Maybe we rendered everything twice?
- Maybe the shot was touched up in photoshop?
- Maybe we DO have night/day cycles and time now has an effect on puzzle resolution? And maybe that's the big differentiating element in Revelation!
- Maybe you guys will have to choose your own answer out of what's listed above?
- Maybe you guys will have to come up with more clever answers than the ones I've just listed above? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif Maybe these are the ravings of a desperate man trying to stop the cat that's already out of the bag? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I was always against the idea of showing a day screenshot.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I believe we can take THAT as confirmation. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Thanks Pat! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Cierdwyn

Pat_09
04-20-2004, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I believe we can take THAT as confirmation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, really? Okaaay, if you saayyy sooo... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Cierdwyn
04-21-2004, 07:04 AM
Ahh ... Pat,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hmm, really? Okaaay, if you saayyy sooo... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Ooooh ... I LOVE a bonfire &lt;rummages for marshmallows and a sharp stick&gt;

You know we Myst gamers LIVE for this stuff - helps us keep the grey matter working. So let's look at this logically. Hmmm let's see ...

small feathery body ... orange bill ... orangy webbed feet ... &lt;check&gt;
swims around the lake ... flies south for the winter ... &lt;check&gt;
*Quack .. Quack* ... &lt;check&gt;

Yep, I was right - ain't no rabbit I've ever seen http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif
Suppose it's a duck?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I may be no Einstein, but ...

as a long time stargazer I am pretty sure I can recognize a night sky ... &lt;check&gt;
you can make out that "saucer" shaped building down below and it's in BOTH the day and night shots ... &lt;check&gt;
and I'd say by the length of Batmans shadow, it's about 9 am or 5pm ... &lt;check&gt;

Any one else hear that quacking sound? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Cierdwyn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Srikandi
04-22-2004, 04:28 PM
Except that Batman is thanks to Jerle? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd like to add the possibility that there's day and night, but not a cycle. That is, that certain environments have exactly two versions, which you see at different times. (Wouldn't need it for fully enclosed environments or for environments that you can only access at one of the two times.) We can suppose that the sun always rises and sets when you're indoors.

But I much prefer the interpretation where time impacts puzzles! And given that that was the longest entry in Pat's list, it seems quite likely!

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

earthinvasion
04-22-2004, 05:56 PM
What if through a machine you can control the weather and day/night cycle? Then, weather and day/night could affect the puzzles without us having to wait forever for it to change. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

There are three kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't.

Coronagold
04-22-2004, 10:25 PM
There is a way of layering 2D/3D scenes together. And that sounds as if that is what Revelation will do. Regenerative plantlife. Definitely atmosphreric changes. Insects & animals.


Waits...

Cierdwyn
04-23-2004, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Except that Batman is thanks to Jerle? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, I know, but it worked so much better than just refering to the length of the shadows from the window framing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And speaking of those shadows - graphically they are quite impressive. Have you noticed how they curve to conform to the cracks in the floorboards? VERY realistic! I've got that particular picture on my desktop, so I get to take it in quite often and I don't think I've ever been so impressed by "shadows" in my life. Even on the upper left area, the small beams are straight and their corresponding shadows are curved to follow the arc of the ceiling behind them. Amazing details, that may seem small but lend themselves to a visually rich environment. The people working on this game are artists - extremely talented artists - and those of us who love Myst so much are in for a visually incredible experience. We won't be able to help but get lost in the game. Images like that make September seem way too far off at times, but certainly heightens my interest in being first in line when it hits the shelves.

Cierdwyn

moulinoux
05-10-2004, 04:12 PM
Due to the newly exposed pictures I am somewhat confident in saying that it's higly possible that there is going to be a day/nightcycle in revelation (atleast on the age with the night and day shots)
I think so not only because of the fact that there is day and night shots of the same age.., but also because there are matching shadows on both the dayshots and nightshots

*Images removed due to the size. If you want to repost the images please make them small enough so that we don't have to side scroll.

[This message was edited by CAGrayWolf on Thu July 01 2004 at 11:05 AM.]

Earendil18
05-10-2004, 08:05 PM
Interesting, but the storyline could have the player go through the Age at a certain general time, then come back later...? Still, those screens are amazingly photoreal. I'm sorry but the loss of detail compared to a nice Exile-ish 3d pan, and realMyst is insane. But then, there's these new shader models etc coming out allowing for more realistic lighting...

Ah it doesn't matter...scuse me whilst I go drool at some more pics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

EDIT: Also, the night picture appears to be more of a promo shot/setup job, and may not necessarily reflect what the player will experience. It's beautiful nonetheless

http://image.moddb.com/images/members/general/13819img1.png

moulinoux
05-11-2004, 01:32 AM
Of course it could be anything http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I just like speculating

But I should make my point more clear (dont think it got through any good)
If I were going to make a transition from night to day in a scene i would need to rerender every shadow (due to the fact that the sun is spinning). But if my shadows were static then i wouldnt get the trouble with countless of pictures needed. that's why i think it's more possible now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Coronagold
05-11-2004, 04:35 AM
Seeing that I have a scroll bar activated on the bottom of my screen automatically tells me that someone posted a big pic. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sargem/POTS_copy.jpg

Ze Pedro
05-11-2004, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pat_09:
- Maybe we DO have night/day cycles and time now has an effect on puzzle resolution? And maybe that's the big differentiating element in Revelation!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, THAT would be super! It would be great if we had to wait for several night/day cycles in order to solve some puzzles. Kind of like waiting for the tree in your Relto to grow to be able to pick some leaves from the grown tree in order to do something else. Do you get what I mean? That way the game would take longer to be completed. Nobody would "beat it" in a week.

Yes, yes, yes. Puzzles that depend on time, please. Not timed puzzles.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cierdwyn
05-11-2004, 09:04 AM
The reason I was so sure that there may be a day and night cycle - at least in this lake area - was based on noticing a couple of different things. The first and most obvious being the night shots over the lake and the day shot from inside the domed room, looking out over the lake. But also in the night shots over the lake area, there are differences in the reflected light seen on the horizon in the distance. As if dawn were breaking, or the moon were rising or setting, and the variances in the light dispersed in the misty air, as the amount of light changes. I star gaze and I see those light changes everytime I'm out all night.

I don't see why it couldn't be done - to some degree - my daughter has a couple of PS2 games that the sun and moon travel across the sky in a day and night cycle - Dark Cloud (1 or 2 not sure which - may be both) has this feature and I was impressed with it the first time I saw it. And you know what? Our Revelation Team is pretty smart and capable - if they've taken that and improved on it ... it'll be a brilliant bit of programming!

Cierdwyn

[This message was edited by Cierdwyn on Tue May 11 2004 at 08:14 AM.]

Coronagold
05-11-2004, 06:34 PM
I love day / night changes in a game. I love it when puzzle areas can only be activated at a certain time of day because of light, temperature, humidity, etc.

Day/night cycles. They're not just for breakfast anymore. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sargem/POTS_copy.jpg

Eat_My_Shortz
07-01-2004, 10:21 AM
I don't think you'd have a puzzle which depends on a large period of time. That would be horrible - having to wait for morning.

Whats much more likely is what happens in many games - the time is based on your actions. ie. its not a cycle, its always night time. But then maybe you return later and its day, and things are different.

Anyway AWW NICE ONE making the window so wide!

_______________________________________________
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Eat_My_Shortz
07-13-2004, 10:09 AM
moulinoux if you're posting big images, why not just URL them rather than image. Then we can click open a new window to view them.

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The Gathered Will Tell the Path of the Shell. Well TELL ME ALREADY!