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Siwarrior
09-29-2005, 07:21 AM
ok, which do you prefere? cannons or machine guns and which type?


My fav is the browning m2, tough (don't quote me on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and reliable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Siwarrior
09-29-2005, 07:21 AM
ok, which do you prefere? cannons or machine guns and which type?


My fav is the browning m2, tough (don't quote me on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and reliable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FlatSpinMan
09-29-2005, 07:36 AM
Cannons - whichever one is okay, except that huge one that sort of dribbles out of the nose of the 109. Love its impact but can't get the trajectory right.
Too much dicking around with MGs, though I still like to have a mix - MGs to slow 'em down from a distance, then cannon to scrub 'em from the skies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Kuna15
09-29-2005, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Siwarrior:
ok, which do you prefere? cannons or machine guns and which type?


My fav is the browning m2, tough (don't quote me on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and reliable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

M2s (.50cal - 12,7mm). For me the best fighter weapon in ww2. Sorry for quoting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

woofiedog
09-29-2005, 07:41 AM
Cannon... with the 50's coming in next in line.

HotelBushranger
09-29-2005, 07:53 AM
I'm with Si here. Brownings all the way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Good against all fighters, and good against Japanese bombers. Nice n easy to use too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tigertalon
09-29-2005, 07:56 AM
Fav machinegun: UBS
Fav cannon: Mg151/20

HellToupee
09-29-2005, 08:08 AM
Hispano 20mm

Friendly_flyer
09-29-2005, 08:28 AM
The Russian 20mm's are nice, but I like to have a bit of MGs as well.

zan_bzk
09-29-2005, 09:09 AM
Brownings,Browings,Browings,Browings...
Browings RULZ!!!!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

zan_bzk
09-29-2005, 09:13 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif
sorry....i wanted to say:Brownings,Brownings,Brownings,Brownings...
Brownings RULZ!!!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

HotelBushranger
09-29-2005, 09:24 AM
Theres an edit button you know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

horseback
09-29-2005, 11:13 AM
In-game, I have to say that the 20mm cannon gives me better results-the DMs are generally more rewarding to explosive rather than kinetic rounds.

In a real life situation, however, I like the firing time and hitting power of multiple Heavy Machine Guns, particularly the M2 Browning.

If Yakovlev or Lavotchkin had thought to cram eight 12.7mm UBS MGs into the wings of a fighter, I might have had a different answer, though. The UBS was a fearsome weapon, but the Soviet style installations of a single gun over the nose lacked both punch and firing time.

cheers

horseback

ploughman
09-29-2005, 11:45 AM
Quad 20mm Hispanos. If not 8 x M2 .50 cals. In a 1940 set up the 8 x .30 cals on the Hurricane are lots of fun but only against lightly armoured 1940 opposition. The .30s in the Spit are a waste of space and offer only nuisance value, unless an enemy freaks out and turns into your vapour making 20mms.

HoneySeeker
09-29-2005, 12:35 PM
MG151/20s, with B-20s a close second. MG108 for bomber-hunting.

There's an interesting thread on Tony William's forum (he of Flying Guns fame) at the moment, that touches on just this subject: 20mm v .50cal (http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=autogun&nav=messages&prettyurl=%2Fautogun%2Fmessages%2F)

Ankanor
09-29-2005, 12:41 PM
MG-151/20 the Combination of a AP, HE and M-Geschoss is simply deadly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif . I like the damage of the MK108 shell, but it's meant to be fired at big cumbersome bombers at point-blank range. Definitely NOT my idea of good time.

The UB is a powerful MG, but it's not meant to be used as the Browning. It is a fact that the Russian fighters were underarmed for the 1st half of the war, the exception being LaGG-3 with its 1x20mm ShVAK and 2xUBS. Maybe they relied more on the numbers. But a 6 gun battery of UBs was never in the minds of russian constructors. Apparently it was considered an "overkill" armament. Also, a 20mm was considered better for dealing with the single- and double-engined aircraft of the Luftwaffe. wing mounted equipment was more prone to jamming due to battle damage(statistically the wing receives more hits) and was more difficult to aim. And that did matter when trainig thousands of raw recruits. Also, air battles on the Eastern Front, for the most part, were fought at extreme close quarters, where a wing-armed fighter would be at disadvantage. This was the main complain of the russian Spitfire pilots, the weapons were synched at 300 yards, too far for their taste.
The American armament was good for the Western front, because it was usually good enough for the main opponent - Luftwaffe fighters. But fighters on the East encountered fighters, bombers, attack aircraft, transports, etc. the bombers and the attack aircraft would usually have more armor than the standard fighter. A 20mm cannon delivers the capacity to deal with a number of targets, not just fighters.

Old_Canuck
09-29-2005, 12:50 PM
BOTH. When that "sweet spot" appears in the cross hairs, I likes to pull both triggers and fly through the exploding pieces http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We likes it
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00009OX2W.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

faustnik
09-29-2005, 12:55 PM
Cannon definately! For most of the war, the Mg151/20. It had a high ROF even when synchronized with its electrical priming and had far greater effect than 12-13mm heavy MGs. It was lighter and had a higher ROF than the Hispano MkII and was more powerful than the ShVak.

A choice of any would definately be the Hispano MkV!!! High ROF, great hitting power and light weight.

LeadSpitter_
09-29-2005, 12:56 PM
this game makes no sense whatso ever

1 nose mounted mg151 in a 109 with 2 7.92 mgs is more then equal to those ac with double or triple the firepower in reality which absolutely are not in game.

Some examples

spit and c4
fw190
la7
lafn
ki84c
ki100
corsair c
ki61
zeke
p47
p38
yak
lagg
i16
emil
il2
p63 30mm
p39
me262u4 50mm
mk103s
+ others

game makes no sense in weapons and dm dept what so ever.

Then theres the whole bombs and rockets issue which are just completely bs and underpowered.

StellarRat
09-29-2005, 01:10 PM
In the game I favor the 20mm. If the .50s were desync'd and have API ammo I'd probably favor them. I like the ability fire a lot of rounds and walk them into the target with .50s.

CUJO_1970
09-29-2005, 01:14 PM
Cannons are better than machine guns.

faustnik
09-29-2005, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
this game makes no sense whatso ever

1 nose mounted mg151 in a 109 with 2 7.92 mgs is more then equal to those ac with double or triple the firepower in reality which absolutely are not in game.

Some examples

spit and c4
fw190
la7
lafn
ki84c
ki100
corsair c
ki61
zeke
p47
p38
yak
lagg
i16
emil
il2
p63 30mm
p39
me262u4 50mm
mk103s
+ others

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see a big list but, I'm not sure what you mean?

**************

Six .50s should be roughly the equivalent of two Hispano or Mg151. Testing the .50 M2 in QMB with arcade mode is difficult because AI will auger in after a couple hits????? The only way to test is to have two pilots fly together and one shoots the other one. By this test .50 is very effective. It kills pilots, engines and control cables very quickly. The Hispano and Mg151 have more drastic effect because of their HE ability. The net result is similar.

There is also the theory that some info gets lost online with multiple guns. Compare the single Mg151 of the Bf109 online to the four Mg151 of the Fw190. Frequently it seems that the Bf109 does as much damage as the Fw190??? Maybe the multiple banks of .50 suffer from the same issue online????

You can look at each issue very closely, study and record your findings, combine them with historical data, and send them to 1C. As an alternative, some people choose to whine, cry and badmouth the sim based only on what they "feel" the sim should be based on their own "expert" opinion. Sometimes the first method gets things changed, the second is only useful as a clown act.

Vipez-
09-29-2005, 01:37 PM
Weapons, which are mounted in center, like 109's mg151/20 firing through probeller hub should have huge advantage in accurasy compared to wing mounted MGs or cannons.. and in game i like to believe it is so.. I don't see absolutely anything wrong with browning .50s in the game.. however, yes it is proven FW190 has somewhat fooked up DM, yes, but it does not mean US .50s are otherwise porked, because they are not..

I can't say I understand L$'s list either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif nice list though

faustnik
09-29-2005, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> yes it is proven FW190 has somewhat fooked up DM </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that will end with 4.02.

Vipez-
09-29-2005, 01:42 PM
Imagine a P47 with 8x UBS... devastating http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif 8x Laser mark 23 Photon Railguns..



Yes, I actually tested RC-version (shame on me), and yes FW190 is back into a torch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Ankanor
09-29-2005, 02:26 PM
Why do I have the feeling that quite a few red pilots fancy the return of the time when the advice on shooting down the Me109(and now the FW190) were "harsh words will do" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

civildog
09-29-2005, 02:29 PM
The bolt-action 37mm in my favorite mount is my favortie, but I think it got porked in the last two patches.

faustnik
09-29-2005, 02:31 PM
Well, they have a point with the current bugged Fw190 DM.

Unlike Leadspitter, I think the DM is getting better, just needs a few tweaks, like tougher p-47s and bombers, Fw190 fix, maybe another look at delta wood http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.

Ankanor
09-29-2005, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
maybe another look at delta wood http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is asking for trouble, "kickin' around your health insurance card" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
09-29-2005, 02:47 PM
Apart from fire and fuel leak, 190DM is as before with easy PKs and no-hope handling with pinholes in the wing.

Far less likely....if not absolutely improbable is the chance that Oleg's delta wooden wonders will be looked at. After all, why bother bringing one of the oldest DMs up to standard when you can add yet another aircraft with a new, bugged FM/DM? It just doesn't make any sense.

Regardless...Best weapon? Depends on the job. Shooting down heavy bombers? MK108. Shooting down fighter bombers? Cannon. Shooting down fighters? Lots of mgs. Cannon wins 2:1 there.

Ta,
Norris

Aaron_GT
09-29-2005, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Quad 20mm Hispanos. If not 8 x M2 .50 cals. In a 1940 set up the 8 x .30 cals on the Hurricane are lots of fun but only against lightly armoured 1940 opposition. The .30s in the Spit are a waste of space and offer only nuisance value, unless an enemy freaks out and turns into your vapour making 20mms. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are in close the .303s go pretty much where the cannon rounds. They .303s can be useful to check you are going to be on target before loosing off the cannon rounds. The 50 cals in the Spit IXe are worth using to hit the target in earnest with, though.

Kocur_
09-29-2005, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">p63 30mm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

37 mm x 145R

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The bolt-action 37mm in my favorite mount is my favortie </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bolt action? What are you flying? SPAD XII? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> FW190 is back into a torch </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm, and the other major type, also inflammable in 4.01, i.e. Yaks, burn there too? And is that plywood still made of kevlartree wood?

tigertalon
09-29-2005, 04:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
kevlartree wood </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

ImpStarDuece
09-29-2005, 04:56 PM
Best combination in the world would be Spitfire with 2x 20mm Hispanos and 2x 12.7 UBS. UBS to sight on the target, 20mm to blow it away.

UBS fires a heavier round than the M2, with more than twice the explosive content at a higher rate of fire, all from a lighter gun.

I prefer cannon as an air-to-air weapon. Purely for on target damage. Hispano for preferance, although the ShVak makes nice holes in German steel as well.

hobnail
09-29-2005, 06:07 PM
Here's something for the .50cal fans that I did up a while ago:

http://users.on.net/apoulos/50cal.jpg

Personally I'd take the Me262A-1a/U1. 2xMk108, 2xMk103, 2xMG151/20 flown by Heinz B¤r, all in the nose.

LeadSpitter_
09-29-2005, 07:52 PM
look at detailed gun stats faust to see its true.

btw

Bad Leadspitter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

fordfan25
09-29-2005, 09:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Siwarrior:
ok, which do you prefere? cannons or machine guns and which type?


My fav is the browning m2, tough (don't quote me on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and reliable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

in this game i like the german mk108 cannon the best by far with the haspro 20mm in secound place more or less. .50s are my fav after all cannon choices are listed.

in real life i would just as soon have BMG .50's though if i was going aginst large b25 sized bombers id rather have a good high rate of fire cannons like the mk108 or the JP 30mm.

i dont like a mix eather way. give me 6 to 8 .50's or 2 to 4 cannons.

fordfan25
09-29-2005, 09:08 PM
how about a p-38 with 3 20mm haspros in the nose
desynced of course http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Kamikazeiii
09-29-2005, 09:26 PM
How bout the he-219 Uhu, they come with 6 mk 108s and 2 mg/151s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

faustnik
09-29-2005, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
look at detailed gun stats faust to see its true.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have looked at the gun comparison charts very carefully. I've also compared them very closely in the sim. I'm still not sure what you are trying to say with your list Leadspitter?

Siwarrior
09-29-2005, 11:15 PM
i find that i cant hit anything with the hispanos on the spit, it seems it is not stable enough for the gun ?

TAGERT.
09-29-2005, 11:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Siwarrior:
ok, which do you prefere? cannons or machine guns and which type?


My fav is the browning m2, tough (don't quote me on that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) and reliable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Depends one what they were hunting.. Fast and Small (fighters) or Slow and Big (bombers)

alert_1
09-30-2005, 02:03 AM
1xMk103 "Sniper Dream" and 2xMG151/15 - not a bad combo if you ask me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
..and Do335 as a bonus to that package!

Maraz_5SA
09-30-2005, 02:20 AM
Gun placement has a huge importance too, I find it's more effective one gun in the nose (eg. Bf.109) than two in the wings (eg. Spitfire).

Cheers
Maraz

Siwarrior
09-30-2005, 06:22 AM
yes guns in the nose are more stable and easier to shoot
cannons in the wings (spit and emil) shake the plane around making it harder to shoot.

F19_Ob
09-30-2005, 07:55 AM
I fly all kinds of planes and I dont chose them for their efficency, but the most effective setup I guess must go to the il-2 with the 23mm cannon ,wich has almost the double weight of the russian 20mm and also a higher velocity wich makes it effective even beyond 1000m.
The fastfiring mg's is a good addition and they also are effective beyond 900m.
This gives the il-2 the best setup in the game.
Only drawback is the poor maneuverability and lesser energy of the plane.

The most effective fighters are the 109 with MK108 cannon, the La5FN-La7 and the Yak3p ,wich has the best and fastes 20mm cannon setup, wich gives its 3 cannons a rate of fire close to mg's.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Siwarrior
09-30-2005, 05:59 PM
Yes but i find the russian 20mm cannons have less power compared to the german 20mm and the hispano, i could be wrong though