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Monterey13
09-23-2007, 09:40 AM
Any tips on leading targets?
I have had success with this, but it is spotty at best. Most of the time, I am too long or too short. Any tips to help me be more consistent with it?

Monterey13
09-23-2007, 09:40 AM
Any tips on leading targets?
I have had success with this, but it is spotty at best. Most of the time, I am too long or too short. Any tips to help me be more consistent with it?

heywooood
09-23-2007, 09:45 AM
only practice - try slowing the game and then practice against another plane in the QMB...start off in the 'advantage' position (check QMB settings) - use a target plane that is unarmed..it will try harder to evade...

start with a bomber or a twin engine type as a target then work up to fighters....

then use normal time and always review your tracks to see where you were good and where you were not good

bmoffa
09-23-2007, 09:53 AM
VERY GOOD advice. I've done a lot of that kind of practice. Still do. It is very helpful in improving gunnery as well as I lot of other aspects of dogfighting like timing you closing, etc.

PBNA-Boosher
09-23-2007, 09:58 AM
There's probably a good tutorial on the K14 gunsight at M4T, which can be found in the P-51D-20NA and YP-80 in game. Of all other things in game, that radar computing gunsight taught me the most about lead and deflection shooting in this game. Definitely have a go with it, learn how it operates. Then when you're an ace with it, try shooting without it. You'll find a big difference.

Monterey13
09-23-2007, 10:26 AM
Thanks for the help. I figured it would come down to just practice. I think the gunsight would only hurt me. I fly the P-38 and P-39.

249th_Maico
09-23-2007, 10:34 AM
Also try turning on the short Icons. See how far you are firing from. This can also be a guide to where you want to harmonize(Set Convergance)your guns. I recomend you fire from less than 250 meters. This of course depends on lots of things like ammo type type of target ect. Keep practicing. IL-2 is not just a game, its an experiece.

Monterey13
09-23-2007, 10:37 AM
I usually never fire before 300 meters unless I am using the cannon in the P-39 or the 20mm in the P-38. Those can help "reach out and touch someone". Convergence isn't a factor in the P-38.

K_Freddie
09-23-2007, 10:48 AM
With Deflection shooting, Leading the target, always aim in front of the engine. When the deflection angle gets to great and the a/c dissapears below your engine cowling, aim far in front, shoot and ease up on the stick and let the target fly through the bullet stream. This bit of advice comes from WW2 AFAIK - cannot remember who http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

major_setback
09-23-2007, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
With Deflection shooting, Leading the target, always aim in front of the engine. When the deflection angle gets to great and the a/c dissapears below your engine cowling, aim far in front, shoot and ease up on the stick and let the target fly through the bullet stream. This bit of advice comes from WW2 AFAIK - cannot remember who http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I always try to aim the first (cannon) shot well ahead of the aircaft, then a bit closer to it with the next, and so on.
I take one shot at a time (that is, one quick burst that sound like one shot, this will usually in the La7 let 4 cannon shells go, and hopefully one of them will hit).

If the aircraft is flying fast at right angles to you, straight ahead of you, you'll need several aircrafts lengths of lead.

You can test to see how many cannon shells are releasd with each short burst by shooting them at a low angle into water, you can also see how much spread there is between them that way.

zardozid
09-23-2007, 03:12 PM
Try http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC_2_Eng.zip and this. (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm) their are good tips in their for shooting (regardless of what you might be flying).

F19_Orheim
09-23-2007, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
only practice - try slowing the game and then practice against another plane in the QMB...start off in the 'advantage' position (check QMB settings) - use a target plane that is unarmed..it will try harder to evade...

... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually I have always thought practicing in slow motion to be a big no-no. You totally loose the feel for timing: better to practice over and over again in real time

heywooood
09-23-2007, 03:36 PM
yes - depending on someones relative combat sim experience...someone having extreme difficulty might first like to score hits and then build on that...slowing things down is helpful there.

Bearcat99
09-23-2007, 09:03 PM
Snipers Corner linked by Zardozid is great... so is this (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/revishoot.html)

There is also an RAF gunnery manual floating around that is pretty good.

VonGrantoven
09-23-2007, 09:09 PM
If you are interested. I have uploaded a 1943 Gunnery manual that focuses on determining range and deflection. In addition to being an interesting historical document, the techniques included are directly applicable to IL-2. It even includes training quizzes.
When I first encountered it I was amazed by how much I was under-leading targets!

I just put it up, so check Missions4Today in a day or so and it should be there.

~S~
VonG

VonGrantoven
09-23-2007, 09:11 PM
"Speak of the devil..." eh, Bearcat!

VonGrantoven
09-24-2007, 10:37 AM
The RAF Gunnery Manual is up now.
You can get it over here:
http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=3039

~S~
VonG

Whirlin_merlin
09-25-2007, 12:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
There's probably a good tutorial on the K14 gunsight at M4T, which can be found in the P-51D-20NA and YP-80 in game. Of all other things in game, that radar computing gunsight taught me the most about lead and deflection shooting in this game. Definitely have a go with it, learn how it operates. Then when you're an ace with it, try shooting without it. You'll find a big difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

However Luke disengaged his K14 and used the force to work out lead on the Death Star.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-25-2007, 02:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
There's probably a good tutorial on the K14 gunsight at M4T, which can be found in the P-51D-20NA and YP-80 in game. Of all other things in game, that radar computing gunsight taught me the most about lead and deflection shooting in this game. Definitely have a go with it, learn how it operates. Then when you're an ace with it, try shooting without it. You'll find a big difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats actually a pretty good tip as many underestimate just how much you need to lead a aircraft at times.

Deflection shooting has to due with the rounds being fired, if they are nose mounted or wing mounted, and how many Gs you are pulling. Remember the harder the turn the more Gs you pull and gforce applies to bullets as well, so if your pulling high G you have to lead your target even more.

S!

ViktorViktor
09-25-2007, 04:02 AM
Any duck hunters out there ?

Isn't duck-hunting supposed to be a great way to learn to lead targets (in real life) ?

Does anyone know whether duck-hunting skills can improve IL2 marksmanship ?

LW_lcarp
09-25-2007, 04:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ViktorViktor:
Does anyone know whether duck-hunting skills can improve IL2 marksmanship ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO it doesnt. Most times you take a duck while landing. And ducks dont do any counter moves to get away after first shot (unless you miss)and are not flying 300-400 miles per hour

Waldo.Pepper
09-25-2007, 05:02 AM
I think it well worth pointing out that if you get close enough, not always possible of course (but point blank range is my preferred range) the necessity of leading a target is all but eliminated, even for the blunderbuss cannons.

All you need worry about is being damaged by you target in case he blows up.

Don_X
09-25-2007, 05:11 AM
In Arcade mode you will see where your shots hit.

(Lol Has anyone here EVER flown arcade mode?)

GIAP.Shura
09-25-2007, 05:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ViktorViktor:
Does anyone know whether duck-hunting skills can improve IL2 marksmanship ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO it doesnt. Most times you take a duck while landing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is definitely a lesson for IL-2 pilots in there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

M_Gunz
09-25-2007, 05:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monterey13:
I usually never fire before 300 meters unless I am using the cannon in the P-39 or the 20mm in the P-38. Those can help "reach out and touch someone". Convergence isn't a factor in the P-38. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It matters a lot. That's the range where if you fire from level or near level, your shots
should be passing back down through the sight line. Past that they drop more and more and
inside that they first pass up through the sight line then go high till they drop back down.
If you set convergence way far the high may be a meter or more above and if too close then
don't bother with long range at all.

If you are nose up or nose down then shoot low, the bullets don't drop as much IRL.

M_Gunz
09-25-2007, 05:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monterey13:
Any tips on leading targets?
I have had success with this, but it is spotty at best. Most of the time, I am too long or too short. Any tips to help me be more consistent with it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Make tracks of your gunnery missions and watch them. When your guns fire, hit pause and check
your sight picture and your flying. Note that if you have slip, the ball not centered then it
will throw your aim off possibly badly. if not then Ctrl-F2 the POV till you are on your target
then pan the view so you can see your plane firing then 1/4 speed and watch where the tracers
go and if you get any hits. Setting Arcade=1 during playback gives you the arrows for hits,
those only tell the direction and a hit, just because the arrow goes all the way through does
not mean the hit did. But you can see how many and where and if most hit or miss.

Get a feel for where the shots go and the timing. The timing is like music notes or heartbeats.
If you ever threw balls or stones well then you should be able to get the shooting right.
And lastly, different guns have different timing to range. Switching a lot just screws
whatever feel you might develop.

Rjel
09-25-2007, 09:16 AM
I might also suggest setting up your target as a friendly A/C, regardless of type. You won't get the defensive maneuvers, but it's been a great way for me to learn distance to target. That helps with lead, obviously.

As far as hunting helping to learn how to lead targets, rabbit hunting in my youth did that very thing. I've read many WWII era aces say that same thing. Robert Johnson being one.