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hank149
01-22-2007, 02:51 PM
Another noob with questions and observations.

These two sims are awesome. I bought them last week and I've been addicted since. I got them in a combo pack with Lock-On. I loaded Lock-on yesterday and got so frustrated by the complexity of the controls I uninstalled it.
I really like the intuitive interface of IL2 and PF ... its much more to my liking.

I thought I was getting good at shooting down Zero's till I realized I had a few Difficulty settings set to "easy". Specifically "spins and stalls". Oh ****!! ... I was shooting down at least one to 4 enemy planes per mission. When I switched on "spins and stalls" ... I was lucky not to crash each mission. What a shock. I'm still re-learn how to dogfight. ... but, Its still a blast.

I play with the cockpit off. Is this common in on-line play?

Is there a document somewhere on the internet that describes some of the more obscure loadout weapon names? (some Soviet weapons are like Greek to me)

Last but not least, how do you get out of a stall/spin? Is there a set of actions you can take or is it just luck?
I've pulled out of a few by nosing down and increasing power till my speed increases enough to pull up ... but most the time I crash cause I don't have enough altitude to work with.

hank149
01-22-2007, 02:51 PM
Another noob with questions and observations.

These two sims are awesome. I bought them last week and I've been addicted since. I got them in a combo pack with Lock-On. I loaded Lock-on yesterday and got so frustrated by the complexity of the controls I uninstalled it.
I really like the intuitive interface of IL2 and PF ... its much more to my liking.

I thought I was getting good at shooting down Zero's till I realized I had a few Difficulty settings set to "easy". Specifically "spins and stalls". Oh ****!! ... I was shooting down at least one to 4 enemy planes per mission. When I switched on "spins and stalls" ... I was lucky not to crash each mission. What a shock. I'm still re-learn how to dogfight. ... but, Its still a blast.

I play with the cockpit off. Is this common in on-line play?

Is there a document somewhere on the internet that describes some of the more obscure loadout weapon names? (some Soviet weapons are like Greek to me)

Last but not least, how do you get out of a stall/spin? Is there a set of actions you can take or is it just luck?
I've pulled out of a few by nosing down and increasing power till my speed increases enough to pull up ... but most the time I crash cause I don't have enough altitude to work with.

XyZspineZyX
01-22-2007, 02:57 PM
I don;t play online much, but many servers will allow no cockpit or extrnal view as far as I can tell

Soviet odrnance...eh...don't know

There is no rigid rule for spin recovery. The general rule of thumb is:

neutralise controls
full opposite rudder to direction of spin (you are using a rudder, right?)
chop or reduce throttle
when plane stops spinning, gently point nose down to gather speed
As soon as it is safe to do so, gently add power, and come out of the dive

BUT

some planes will not respond to that! Some want FULL power for example

Of course, altitude is key. Some planes could take 3,000m to come out of a nasty spin. Know when to bail out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

gdfo
01-22-2007, 03:04 PM
Hello Hank,

To complicate matters there is a new and fully complete version of IL-2. It is Il-2 1946.

It includes all of the pay for addons and all of the patches.

If you fly online at Hyperlobby you will have several 'room's or servers to fly on. Some will have settings that are 'easy' with cockpit off and other easy settings and some servers are set to full difficulty. The 'no cockpit' setting is commonly referred to as 'wonderwoman view'.

To get out of a stall just drop your nose and increase thottle and keep your wings level.

To get out of a spin you drop your nose and rudder opposite the spin and Pray!!! Dropping your gear will help if you are slow enough, but not always. Best to avoid spins!

FritzGryphon
01-22-2007, 03:10 PM
Some soviet ordnance

FAB- general purpose
VAP- incendiary
AO- small general purpose
Ptab- armor piercing bomblets
RS- Explosive rocket
BRS- Armor piercing rocket
M13- Incendiary rocket

hank149
01-23-2007, 07:52 AM
Thanks gentlemen (and or ladies)

In a spin ... is the best first thing to do is tuck your head 'tween your legs (if flexible enough) and kiss the arse goodbye. ... then drop the nose ... etc etc etc. :-) ... and hope like heck you can pull out?

Wonderwoman view ?? ... :-) ... in my opinion, no cockpit view overcomes the inability to have peripheral vision which is impossible to simulate with a computer screen and a panned view ... just part of playing a 3D simulation on a flat screen ... but, as I said that's just a newb's opinion.

This is one heck of a game. I've known about IL2 '46 for a few weeks but I needed to try out an inexpensive IL2 on my puter before jumping into the new stuff.

XyZspineZyX
01-23-2007, 08:06 AM
Yeah, but in a real plane you dont have "peripheral view" downwards. The cockpit is still in your way and you cant see below you. You will have the same FOV in cockpit on as you will in cockpit off, so I dont really understand your point.

hank149
01-23-2007, 09:37 AM
Point being, I can't lean over and look down and around in my virtual cockpit. I can't twist in my seat and look behind me without ruddering left or right. Using the hat switch or keyboard controls to pan around to look never will replace being there.

I sure didn't mean to cause somebody anquish over a simple question. Unless I have a headset on with virtual goggles, virtual sound, virtual reality whatever, playing a 3d simulation on a computer with a 2D screen will never allow me to be aware of my surroundings as well as BEING there.

That's all.

KaleunFreddie
01-23-2007, 11:01 AM
The next version of the game 'Battle of Britain : Storms of War' from Oleg and 1C is supposed to have what you're talking about - 6DOF (degrees of freedom) for the pilot head.

A few other factors on stall recovery.
You can also use the engine torque as assist in dropping a wing, which will also get you out of the stall.
Don't gently push the stick forward, SHOVE it forward. This produces an acceleration affect in the pitch attitude and you recover faster.

Welcome to your next ten years... say goodbye to your parents, girlfriend, wife and kids http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
01-23-2007, 11:08 AM
Hi Hank, there are plenty of servers with No Cockpit on, a really good one is Ukdedicated1, which has historical missions, maps and planesets, but with easy settings. As time goes by, and you master those settings you will naturally progress to cockpit on when you are ready.

I learned to fly properly on that server, great fun. Get IL2 1946, then you have all the patches and addons needed to play online.

As for stalls and Spins, you need to stay faster. You are stalling because you let the speed get too low.

You are spinning becuase you are pulling too hard on the stick. YOu need to be more gentle and recognise when the stall is coming. The plane will buffet and shake in the turn as you approach the stall. Fly the SPitfire MkIX for a bit, this has good stall warning, you will get used to the 'feel' of the plane.

Remember that you need speed to do manouvres, imagine you are in a glider with a little engine. You cannot point at the sky and expect to keep climbing. These are WW2 planes and they only have enough power to climb at a steady rate. Try and keep you speed up and dont lose it all by yanking the stick around, try and hold opnto your speed and energy. Its all about energy management.

Keep asking questions, we will try and help you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lucius_Esox
01-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Don't forget if your playing online with the pit on so is everyone else, it can make things... exciting.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also smoothness and co-ordination are key to flying "well" Unfortunately I'm not aware of any shortcuts here, just practice m8.

It's a wonderfull sim.. welcome.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-23-2007, 11:21 AM
Spin-recovery - Chop throttle, push stick forward (full down elevator), apply opposite rudder. Sometimes it'll work, sometimes it won't and isn't always dependant on altitude but in the case of a spin, more altitude is ALWAYS better.

Other recommendations:

1. Get a TrackIR
2. Get TeamSpeak ( http://www.goteamspeak.com )and get on voice-comms with others on the same server (it's free)
3. Practice and don't be reserved about asking ANY questions.


TB

waffen-79
01-23-2007, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hank149:
Wonderwoman view ?? ... :-) ... in my opinion, no cockpit view overcomes the inability to have peripheral vision which is impossible to simulate with a computer screen and a panned view ... just part of playing a 3D simulation on a flat screen ... but, as I said that's just a newb's opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well mate since your still learning and are relative new, I'll give you a friendly advice.

Read about WW2 air combat find a plane you like and that it's also modelled in the sim, and STICK to it, also, fly c0ckpit always ON no matter the server.

You see... with no c0ckpit (ww view) you could be riding Harry Potter's broom and not knowing it. I'm saying this because if you select only to fly the planes you like in this sim, it's only natural wanting to see their cokpits and controls moving, and pretending you're actually flying that plane into combat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C0ckpit always ON and external views ON are pretty popular for online coops, you can always press F2 to improve your SA

regards

dieg777
01-23-2007, 12:17 PM
hi mate - just a tip to help you - head over to www.airwarfare.com (http://www.airwarfare.com) and read the faq and manual and guides - lots to help you on your way

http://www.airwarfare.com/

Billy_DeLyon
01-23-2007, 12:30 PM
Another thing about "wonderwoman" view... are the little red or blue arrows that appear on the edge of the screen, telling you where all nearby aircraft are.

This to me completely kills any immersion. Impossible to bounce anyone online, and no need to maintain SA by looking around.

Of course, offline it's impossible to bounce AI either way, as they apparently can see behind and below them. But I always fly cockpit on anyhow, it's just much more immersive to me. I would recommend flying cockpit always on as soon as you start to get the aircraft and game controls figured out, so that you can get used to flying with blind spots just as the real pilots did. I hate to use a cliche, but to me that's the difference between a simulation and a detailed arcade game.

FluffyDucks2
01-23-2007, 01:47 PM
"Point being, I can't lean over and look down and around in my virtual cockpit. I can't twist in my seat and look behind me without ruddering left or right. Using the hat switch or keyboard controls to pan around to look never will replace being there."



Oh but you can m8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


OK guys relax I will do the dirty deed for you all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

One phrase reference views hank, Track IR http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Check it out here:

http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/

Xiolablu3
01-23-2007, 01:58 PM
I actaully disagree about the view, I think Hank should carry on flying WW view until he gets the hang of things.

I had many fun times flying around on 334th server in WW view when I first started flying. Great days. I used to love it. (That was only about a year ago)

A few months later when I had got the hang of things, I naturally wanted to move on to more realistic settings. I had learned WonderWoman flying and I realised the immersion is much better in cockpit always on servers. Now I cannot fly Wonderwoman, it just feels wrong.


So my advice is to take things slowly and fly which ever settings you have most fun with for now. You will naturally move onto pit on servers, once you are ready http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Draughluin1
01-24-2007, 01:39 AM
Hi Hank149,

Welcome to the IL2 community. Like some of the others have mentioned, full switch (FISC settings) are the way to go in the longrun. As your experience grows, you'll find yourself heading in this direction. So jump in the deep end and start learning. However you mention the inability to confortably look around. Of course a good joystick helps, but investigate the posibility of Track IR if you find yourself dedicated to the sim. Helps with the situational awareness and adds another element to the game. Never fly without it now. So goodluck and maybe see you one day on the Hyperlobby.

Regards, Warg

Feathered_IV
01-24-2007, 01:50 AM
Oh, and if you're in a spin and really stuck. A last resort trick is to drop your flaps and/or undercarriage to help straighten out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

AWL_Spinner
01-24-2007, 04:18 AM
Welcome and glad you're having fun!

Indeed, TrackIR gives you a whole new c0ckpit experience; with it you'll soon wish to leave the radar-o-rama behind (fun though it may be to start with, most of the serious online action comes with WWV disabled; instead there are various flavours of externals and icons to suit your immersion requirements).

See ya on Hyperlobby http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

hank149
01-24-2007, 11:17 AM
Thanks for all the advice.

I've gone back flying with cockpit on. I started out flying that way then I found the WW view and I was having so much fun with it ... even knowing that it wasn't realistic.

Is full switch (FISC) when you have the Difficulty settings on Realistic? I think this is what you're referring to. ... and that really makes it difficult.

The biggest problem I know I'm going to have to overcome is that I can't tell which dots in the sky are enemy or friendly ... I tried flying without labels and I end up shooting at friendlies half the time. ... good thing I'm not flying on-line.

thanks again

OH, and so far my favorite planes: Spitfire, P51, BF109, F6F, ... and Mesquito

Draughluin1
01-25-2007, 02:16 AM
Yes that is what full switch is all about. As for recogising dots for friend or foe, well that comes with time and experience. Always treat an unknown dot with caution and try to put yourself into an advantageous position before engaging. The easiest and most satisfying kills are the ones where your victim didn't even see you. Practice offline without icons and you'll soon learn what to look for. Things like distinctive wing paterns or shapes, location of radiators, etc. the list is endless. Practice and you'll be able tell a YaK from a 109 in no time. (Pointy Russian wingtips) Icons are useful when you are trying to workout firing and convergence ranges for shooting practice, but always remember, that the closer the better when you let fly with the guns. Apart from this, icons can be a bit of a crutch if you rely on them and are planning to enter a serious server or competition. Don't worry too much, you'll get the hang of it all and have some serious fun along the way. Just make sure you get up close and fill the sight before firing away.

Goodluck, Warg.

AlGroover
01-25-2007, 03:06 AM
Have 'Toggle FOV' bound to one of your stick buttons to have a closer look at those dots.

carguy_
01-25-2007, 03:27 AM
Dots you can`t ID I`d say.They`re just dots,not shapes of planes.

Well maybe the axis planes dots are fatter but without experience you are not able to ID dots.

As for no cockpit view,you are missing one very important thing.If everyone is using WW view,then everyone sees everyone.Whereas all WWII warbirds had some limitation,the view from canopy and rear view being one of them.Flying a yak you can see most around you,flying a G6early your vision is somewhat same of a tank commander.Hence,if you fly WW view,you do not take advantage of better view from your plane and worse from your enemy`s plane.

Maybe you like up close and personal DFs.Many ppl find it incredibly fun to sneak up on ppl and you will find out that it is the only good tactic while flying certain planes.


Because as strange as it may seem,dogfighting skills are by far not the biggest factor of pilot success in this game.

SeaFireLIV
01-25-2007, 03:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hank149:
Thanks for all the advice.

I've gone back flying with cockpit on. I started out flying that way then I found the WW view and I was having so much fun with it ... even knowing that it wasn't realistic.

Is full switch (FISC) when you have the Difficulty settings on Realistic? I think this is what you're referring to. ... and that really makes it difficult.

The biggest problem I know I'm going to have to overcome is that I can't tell which dots in the sky are enemy or friendly ... I tried flying without labels and I end up shooting at friendlies half the time. ... good thing I'm not flying on-line.

thanks again

OH, and so far my favorite planes: Spitfire, P51, BF109, F6F, ... and Mesquito </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I`m glad you`ve left WW view. It`s bad practise even learning on it. Stay in cockpit get used to it and you won`t be tempted to go `no cockpit` ever. You can see about you many ways by simply manouevering the aircraft. Also, it just isn`t right to fly without your wings.

Telling friend from foe becomes easir with time. Some pointers.

1. Fly ONE side predominantly as a new starter, don`t mix it, this will just cause you confusion in aircraft identification. This is where most people`s identifying problems come from. Once you`ve been at it long enough, then you can switch about.

Say you go allied:

2. Look at style of flying. If aircraft is very high, likely to be enemy. Low to middle altitude, friendly.

3. Tracer: Blue is usually enemy. Red friendly.

4. Very straight wings, maybe with boxes beneath, usually enemy. Enemy 109s often have yellow markings on nose.

But with all this, CHECK YOUR TARGET. Don`t shoot until you know it`s the enemy. It`ll come with time.

hank149
01-25-2007, 08:39 AM
I flew dozens of missions last night with cockpit on. I'm getting more comfortable using my hat switch to look around. I didn't spin out as much so I guess I'm getting used to handling the joystick, thrust, rudder, etc. Plus, I pulled out of several spins ... I still nose dived into the drink several times but not nearly as much when I first switched on "spins/stalls".

For now until I get a little better flying I still keep unlimited ammo and fuel on so I can keep flying (and learning).

Map stuff is off and most everything is switched to realistic except engine management which I'll eventually turn on but I need to be able to keep it in the air first, and shoot, and land, etc.

But, I'm getting there.
Last night was a night of Spitfire/P51/F6F. I like those three planes a lot. I've been playing PF most because it has these planes and IL2 doesn't. ... and I'm flying against '43 Zero's.

Thanks again

hank149
01-29-2007, 11:03 AM
Many many mission flown this weekend. (at least 5 or 6 dozen or more)

I'm working my way up to the most realistic settings. Since middle of last week when I switched on "stalls/spins" I've only got a few kills. But yesterday the light started to shine on dogfighting without losing it in a stall or getting a bunch of bandits on my 6. Looking around with my hat switch is really getting fun ... now I'm quite comfy looking behind me ... and seeing an enemy plane pulling in for a shot up my ***. :-( ... but that's fun too.

Some of the main switches I still leave on easy like engine management, icons, and a few others. I leave these settings on easy so I can continue improving basic flying and dogfighting without "dexterity overload" ... not to be confused with "sensory overload". I'm just too preoccupied with simple flying right now ... I think I'm getting there. Plus, I'm sticking with 4 or 5 planes exclusively to learn their characteristics (like someone suggested)

... and I finally got a few landings in without ripping out the landing gear. :-)

BUT the big question is:

Is there a viewer out there I can download that will play the tracks I save? ( a viewer that does not require loading the whole game) OR, is there an executable file somewhere on the install disk that does this that I haven't been able to find.

This would be a great tool to put on my work 'puter to show the guys there some of my missions ... but only the ones I lived to tell about.

My strategic wargaming is taking a big hit because of this dang IL2/PF game. ... too bad

later

JG14_Josf
01-29-2007, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm getting more comfortable using my hat switch to look around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Track IR

Do it now.

or

Do it later

Xiolablu3
01-29-2007, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hank149:

Last night was a night of Spitfire/P51/F6F. I like those three planes a lot. I've been playing PF most because it has these planes and IL2 doesn't. ... and I'm flying against '43 Zero's.

Thanks again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You should definitely pick up IL2 1946 some time in the future.

I guess you have read about it by now? Its the merged version of the whole series, combining everything int he series up until now.

225 flyable planes I think?

Its all one DVD so no messing baout during install.

Also , I don tknow where you have been flying online, but you will not be having a very good experience if you only have PF.

If you are addicted now, flying online PF only, then God help you when you get IL21946 and start flying on Ukdecidcated2/Warclouds/Historia/etc server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You are going to fall in love like we did.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-29-2007, 12:09 PM
If you start feeling like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/Thunderbolt56/BF1942cantfly.jpg

Then simply practice a bit more and find some dudes that are friendly and willing to wing with you through the steep part of the learning curve.

Zoom2136
01-29-2007, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hank149:
Thanks gentlemen (and or ladies)


Wonderwoman view ?? ... :-) ... in my opinion, no cockpit view overcomes the inability to have peripheral vision which is impossible to simulate with a computer screen and a panned view ... just part of playing a 3D simulation on a flat screen ... but, as I said that's just a newb's opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try this little gizmo that should help you:


http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/