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View Full Version : AI better now, but yet..........



mortoma
03-17-2006, 08:59 AM
I agree with the majority in that other thread concerning the improved AI. One thing that I find hard to explain though. Why am I now having to shoot down more of the enemy than I used to?? The AI really does seem better in a lot of ways, I have been shot down or damaged lately against AI when before I was able to do battle unscathed, having gotten to know the ways to avoid the enemy, so as to counter them. But for some reason, say if I'm in a flight of six planes going up against six planes, I find now that I have to shoot down 4 or 5 of the bastiges!!! I used to have to shoot down 2 or 3, the rest would be cleaned up by my AI wingies.
I now have more of a burden and have to kill more than my share. There are some sorties where
I have to shoot down all the enemies. I'm still at a loss to figure this one out.......hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

mortoma
03-17-2006, 08:59 AM
I agree with the majority in that other thread concerning the improved AI. One thing that I find hard to explain though. Why am I now having to shoot down more of the enemy than I used to?? The AI really does seem better in a lot of ways, I have been shot down or damaged lately against AI when before I was able to do battle unscathed, having gotten to know the ways to avoid the enemy, so as to counter them. But for some reason, say if I'm in a flight of six planes going up against six planes, I find now that I have to shoot down 4 or 5 of the bastiges!!! I used to have to shoot down 2 or 3, the rest would be cleaned up by my AI wingies.
I now have more of a burden and have to kill more than my share. There are some sorties where
I have to shoot down all the enemies. I'm still at a loss to figure this one out.......hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

SeaFireLIV
03-17-2006, 09:21 AM
Shooting down 2-3 enemies at a time is more realistic, if you`re good and/or lucky. Shooting down 5-6 enemies per mission is unrealistic (this sort of thing happened rarely and only with overwhelming forces on one side or true Aces) and a tell-tale sign of the Star wars effect of the new 4.04 AI... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

joeap
03-17-2006, 09:38 AM
Well that is not my experience at all?

mortoma
03-17-2006, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Shooting down 2-3 enemies at a time is more realistic, if you`re good and/or lucky. Shooting down 5-6 enemies per mission is unrealistic (this sort of thing happened rarely and only with overwhelming forces on one side or true Aces) and a tell-tale sign of the Star wars effect of the new 4.04 AI... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What exactly do you mean by "Star Wars" effect?? All I know is I find myself with more a load to shoot down more enemy than I used to. The Star Wars thing is whizzing over my head.

SeaFireLIV
03-17-2006, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
What exactly do you mean by "Star Wars" effect?? All I know is I find myself with more a load to shoot down more enemy than I used to. The Star Wars thing is whizzing over my head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


When I was flying in campaign as part of 8 P39ns and 8 I16s against a number of 110s and G2s, the whole flight was a zooming frantic madness of AI aircraft flying like there were no tommorrow. I saw two 110s smash into each other chasing one P39 that was smoking thick black smoke, a P39 kept flying dangerously close to me and while I was marvelling at the FRENETIC madness going on ahead of me, a BF109 smashed straight into me on a head-on! Heads on happened before 4.04, but very rarely, the AI always had time to break off. Like I`ve said before their brakes are off and they can`t stop!

This is just one example. In another mission, it was my wingman that smashed into me.

War is hell, yes, and confusing, but with 4.04 aircraft fly like nutters on speed or too much coffee with no regard for their own virtual lifespans!

It reminds me of Star Wars (that`s why i say this) and I don`t use this term as loosely as a lot of people do.

Flakwalker
03-17-2006, 03:27 PM
I found the russian SB bombers very easy, someone above input that over 5 per mission is unrealistic, whell when those aircraft apear I normally got 5+ of them, sometimes the whole flight.

They don´t use the frontal turret very well, and neither the backunder hatch.

I remember a time ago that I was attacking a group of Il-2 on Kuban, I performed frontal attacks on them, until one of them head to me and open fire with the frontal mgs. This didnt happen again and that was great.

Grey_Mouser67
03-17-2006, 08:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Shooting down 2-3 enemies at a time is more realistic, if you`re good and/or lucky. Shooting down 5-6 enemies per mission is unrealistic (this sort of thing happened rarely and only with overwhelming forces on one side or true Aces) and a tell-tale sign of the Star wars effect of the new 4.04 AI... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


While I've never flown in WWII, I was never under the impression that fighter aircraft lacked the ability to kill 5 or more targets....Most came back with some or all their ammo. It is hard to put it all together, but many pilots flew without any engagements and those that occurred were more often than not very, very brief, 0ften lasting but a couple of minutes with the dogfight expanding in all directions at once.

A good virtual pilot with lots of hours flying, who fires only when the target is killable should have the firepower and where with all to kill many, many enemy aircraft. If the game were correct, planes and fights would expand in all directions very quickly and planes that found themselves alone would join up with other friendlies and head for home.

I don't necessarily expect that to happen in our current AI, but I would like the AI to adhere to the same laws of physics that I do...make the situational awareness, gunnery and agressiveness scalable through settings and make sure they can pull the same G's as me, overheat their engine like me and suffer structural failure like me.

AI is not better in my opinion except at flying their planes better, faster and with more agility than humans can....that sort of "artificial" improvement is really a step in the wrong direction to me.

mortoma
03-19-2006, 01:58 PM
Ok thanks Seafire, I understand what you mean now. I have had more time to play lately and now kind of feel part of my original ( see my post above ) problem is past, no longer find I have to shoot down all or most of the enemy. I have no idea why. Maybe at that time my AI flight mates were all rookies or average and now are veteran or ace?? I may have been a bit hasty in my judgement. All I know is it's different now somewhat.

Adam906
03-19-2006, 09:34 PM
I made an off-line mission involving myself and a wingman flying P-40s listed as ace up against 4x 110s average and 4x 111s (2x rookie, 1x average, 1x ace) and I managed 2 He 111s and 2x 110s and damaging a further 1 of each before disengaging with no ammo. My ace wingman on the other hand only damaged a 111 and then spent the rest of the time screaming 'Get him off my tail!' A P-40 ace against 2x average Bf 110s and he can't deal with it.

The biggest problem I find with the new AI is
i)that ace especially but veteran also now put half a dozen shells into and you end up dead all while in a turning fight. Only a handful of pilots where that accurate and yet the ace seems able to do this at will.

ii)Unless they're bombers never go high-speed head ons with the AI, even fighters. You'll end up smushed into the other guy's propellors.

iii)no matter what structural damage you do to an AI it never seems to effect it the same way it does if it is your a/c. You're hit in the wing and you have to fight it from dropping earthwards. AI get's hit in the wing and nothing.. he still pulls high-g moves and nothing. Never a flutter.

iv)the AI seems to fly beyond the capabilities of what your average human can. Ie. high-g turns and climbs, seems to have endless strength to bull his a/c all over the sky while in real life adrenalin will take you so far there's no way you could be in constant moves and stress levels like the Ace AI pull...

I think this AI incarnation is a step backwards