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LEBillfish
01-20-2005, 07:02 AM
Hi All;

Since PF came out I have noticed a very, very nice change. Many of the default skins seem to have their own markings, all nicely weathered to match the paint on the plane....and the best part is that is how they show in the sim.

Better still is for some reason, "certain" non-default skins grant the same result. In other words, if I say use a Ki-43 skin that has it's own markings, yet have "markings on" selected, the meatballs show up as they are on the skin, and the only pristine marking would be the number NOT the shiney red stock meatballs one normally would get with markings on.

This is a wonderful result, planes look 100% better due to it. However, I have noticed it only happens with a select few planes. So my question is as follows;

What generates this result and how can it be made to work for ALL planes. Wherein "if" markings exist on the skin the stock markings are not used.

Thanks for your response.

LEBillfish
01-21-2005, 12:31 AM
anyone...anyone....no one know?

elephant_il2
01-21-2005, 12:04 PM
It's all written in the MAT files for every marking available.
McWolf was the first to edit the MAT files to achive this effect in FB (before PF release) and Aces addopted this enchancement in his brilliant IL2MAT MANAGER.
McWolf's edited MAT's were downloadable from il2skins.com (unfortunatelly not any more),but you can download the IL2MAT MANAGER program from Aces' site: http://www.acesartwork.co.uk/
I highly recommend it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LEBillfish
01-21-2005, 01:28 PM
Well I have Matmanager and like it though have some issues I need to ask the creator about...But like it very much.

However, the Hinomaru(sp?) within the sim for the A6m is the glaring shiney one...Those on the Ki-43 nice and weathered.....The latter would be nice for all as well as all other markings including numbers.

However, what I would hope for is this feature would be applied to all planes...As it stands now, one can use mat-manager and it looks great, however it is JUST client side....and that makes it a "disadvantage"

Disadvantage in that it is more difficult to make out the markings by a longshot. I often myself have noticed when searching which plane in a fight is enemy, not looking to the shape of the plane but instead for the glaring contrasting marking.

The feature of having weathered markings in the sim itself would be awesome, and I think dramatically improves on the look.

Trick is to get it applied to all. The files are there....just needs to be done.

elephant_il2
01-21-2005, 02:45 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif
Sorry I didn't realise your concern was about online play as well ( I myself never play online). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
You are definetlly right! this feature has to be implemented by default to the game. The peculiar thing is that even if it was designed from the beginning it was never activated (lack of time to edit the MATs ?) until McWolfs discovery.
The reedited McWolf's MATs, with the blending to the a/c markings, already exist. I don't find it so difficult for 1C to add them in a future patch.

Extreme_One
01-22-2005, 08:09 AM
Certain plane models display no markings so the default skins are made to include markings.

Due to the fact that the USAAF used to have an assymetrical marking system ie. roundels on only one wing, many USAAF planes use the same system when you fly as USSAF and revert to the other system when flown as another air-force.

ElAurens
01-22-2005, 09:37 AM
I'm with you on this one Billfish. There was a great imporvement in many of the default markings in PF. But the Zeros somehow got left out. The A6M's default markings are the new leaders in the contest for worst implementation of national markings in a flight sim (prop). Followed closely by the over weathered default skins for the Zeke.
Honestly, the late Zero default skins look more like examples that were just recovered from crash sites in New Guinea. They are horrible.

Banzai!!

VW-IceFire
01-22-2005, 10:08 AM
I keep asking for this to be done for the RAF planes...

The USAAF planes and some of the Japanese and Soviet aircraft with this feature look fantastic these days.

LEBillfish
01-23-2005, 07:08 AM
Well then I'd like to simply propose that default markings be inproved by weathering them, better still, incorporating something like MatManager into the marking selection area..

A simple tic box for weathered markings (so essentially you double the selections...IJA=bright markings, click tic box and then IJA=weathered markings INCLUDING plane number).

Frankly the markings are the most "unrealistic" aspect of the planes here, and enough replacement samples exist to "update" this...

OR

Have ALL default skins with country of primary use markings, and a second selection of "unmarked" for use of other markings.

Mc_Wolf
01-24-2005, 12:47 PM
Hello LEBillfish

I suggest you download ACE's great IL2Mat manager, my mat is for the default replacement, which can only be used on Excellent setting, because in perfect setting, the marking will be very highlighting for the blending effect, even it looks very nice to blend with the skin.

Yes what you said is correct, it should be very easy for dev team to mod these mat in game engine. You will note that it's CLASS in the first line in mat, the mat is a list for 3D object. I am not a programmer, I asked my friend, he told me it's JAVA, so it can be editted by JAVA if you know the game engine, then you will make all marking look like what you wish.

The default marking is really ugly. I don't know why they didn't try to make it better. It's not a big case, but it will make the game better and perfect.

ElAurens
01-24-2005, 02:06 PM
The problem with Mat Manager is that is does not work online. That is, the only one who can see that effects of the MAT are you and you alone.

Billfish and I fly online all the time, and I assume exclusively online. (well pretty much).
Us onliners want higher quality markings and skins that are by default visible to all server clients.

I don't really think this is too much to implement. Look at the excellent default skins on the early P40s that were done by Hammerd. No reason to not have them all 'round.

Mc_Wolf
01-28-2005, 07:03 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifmoded mat already worked without IL2mat after patch3.03, set the cacheclean=0

LEBillfish
01-28-2005, 08:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mc_Wolf:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifmoded mat already worked without IL2mat after patch3.03, set the cacheclean=0 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pardon?...where is this command and what does it do?...not finding it in config.ini.

Err never mind, went to IL2 Mat site and looked it up....Once again, that is only a "client side" operation....would be great if it was added into the sim but it is not.

So what that leaves you with then is with most planes (remember, point of this was new default markings on some planes are weathered) to you they will look weathered and hard to spot...To everyone else they will have that neon look that the stock markings give off (can see them long before you can make out plane).

So to run mat markings for self online is only handicapping yourself......Besides, how difficult can it be to replace the old bright markings with the hundreds of new weathered ones, or even add a simple tic box as stated and let the players choose....Granted, ALL will choose weathered as who will choose markings that work like long range bullseyes

Owl_NZ
01-28-2005, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Hi All;

Since PF came out I have noticed a very, very nice change. Many of the default skins seem to have their own markings, all nicely weathered to match the paint on the plane....and the best part is that is how they show in the sim.

Better still is for some reason, "certain" non-default skins grant the same result. In other words, if I say use a Ki-43 skin that has it's own markings, yet have "markings on" selected, the meatballs show up as they are on the skin, and the only pristine marking would be the number NOT the shiney red stock meatballs one normally would get with markings on.

This is a wonderful result, planes look 100% better due to it. However, I have noticed it only happens with a select few planes. So my question is as follows;

What generates this result and how can it be made to work for ALL planes. Wherein "if" markings exist on the skin the stock markings are not used.

Thanks for your response. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry if I'm misreading your intent with this one LEBillfish, but AFAIK all the skins with the realistic markings have them on the default skin for that country (i.e. the US F4U's have star & bar etc).

The way I recall it you have a default skin and each country can have one default skin which is selected by country (obviously http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif). That is the only reason you get proper looking markings instead of "generic" ones. I recall arguing this through with Oleg when the subject of RNZAF markings came up, and I said to him the most accurate generic RNZAF marking is RNZAF roundel with US Bar either side. He told me that the program doesn't support bar markings (hence the default US marking doesn't have them), and that's why the F4U, F6F etc US default skins have them painted on.

Unfortunately, the real p1sser is that (as was explained to me in no uncertain terms), the default skins are in the major 300mb? file, so changing one meant users would have to download that mother of a file every time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif I don't know if they changed that since PF, but that was what I was told.

Also, and this is for Icefire who I know gets oh-so-cheesed about the RAF markings http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif), you can only have two different roundels per set. I can't think of another example so I'll give you the one I know. The originally intended RNZAF roundel set was based (I researched it and did them for Oleg (don't know if he used mine or not though (they look like mine))) on November 1943 (as it was the most modern the RNZAF roundels could look without bars). The fuselage roundels had a yellow ring around them, the underwing ones had a thinner white center disc, and the upperwing roundels had basically the fuselage ones minus but with the yellow border blue instead.

Having made all them and submitted them, Oleg ran out of time to tell me that the programming dept. had limited it to two-only, not three as before (it was literally last minute), so they subbed the underwing for the fuselage ones. When I noted this it was "minor importance" (read "go away and stop nitpicking" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif). I did propose they use the upperwing ones for all the wings and the yellow bordered fuselage ones for the fuselage, which is more accurate, but I'm not holding my breath, especially if they are having to clean up after PF1. Then again, you never know. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

As for MAT manager, yes I dare say it wouldn't be that hard for Oleg & Co to do something like that, but (and I can imagine this) the suggestion will be received with a "if we do all these things, we'll never build BoB".

So you might just get stuck with what we've got (unless that PF expansion part duex other people were on about comes out). OK it isn't perfect, but hopefully all the nitpicks with PF will be addressed with BoB, and we'll get one highly polished gem when that comes out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif