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Bearcat99
05-26-2007, 10:08 PM
I am seeing more and more of the DF shootemup attitude coming into coops. I even was in a coop where one of the friendlies actually started shooting up the man in front of him... while they were taking off.

I see more and more... less courtesy.... Guys will see you working a target.. and rather than cover your 6 or wait for a clean shot they shoot over your shoulder... get in your way.. then get pissed off when you shoot them. I see guys that I know are not noobs.... who should know better... routinely shoulder shoot, kill steal.. the whole nine. In the past few weeks I have gone down in coops either because of friendly fire, collision, or crashing trying to avoid a collision.. Is this just me? Am I over reacting here or is this a trend someone else is seeing as well?

Bearcat99
05-26-2007, 10:08 PM
I am seeing more and more of the DF shootemup attitude coming into coops. I even was in a coop where one of the friendlies actually started shooting up the man in front of him... while they were taking off.

I see more and more... less courtesy.... Guys will see you working a target.. and rather than cover your 6 or wait for a clean shot they shoot over your shoulder... get in your way.. then get pissed off when you shoot them. I see guys that I know are not noobs.... who should know better... routinely shoulder shoot, kill steal.. the whole nine. In the past few weeks I have gone down in coops either because of friendly fire, collision, or crashing trying to avoid a collision.. Is this just me? Am I over reacting here or is this a trend someone else is seeing as well?

heywooood
05-26-2007, 10:23 PM
competition, no matter what level or what arena, can bring out the worst side of some people...always been the case.

Its one thing to go flying with friends when there is no one keeping score and quite another when there are 'points' to be made.

It was ever the same in sports...you play hockey with friends - no refs - no scoreboard - no timekeeper...lots of fun.

...but add in those elements and maybe even a trophy or just keep stats and standings?...whole different ballgame.

That doesn't hold true for all - but it definitely causes changes to the overall experience for all.

Best thing would be if there was no ingame tally or 'points' awarded.

You have the satisfaction of knowing how well you played and when you fly with friends, they all know the score as to who is skilled and who is not.

If someone wants to hold a tournament using this sim or its eventual successor, then maybe the 'points' can be enabled..or score kept by officially assigned observers.

This carp is what drove me offline - I just can't stand the b/s or the carping about the b/s - life is just too damm short for that.

its also why FSX is for now, so much more enjoyable - I just might make it to GT's KoTS now.

gratuitous FSX screenie..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/travelaire.jpg

Superluminal_8
05-26-2007, 10:38 PM
Nah,I play BF2 so I´m used to getting shot at,both enemy and "friendlies" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nice picture.When I get a better rig I might consider FSX.Is it stock graphic or a addon one?

heywooood
05-26-2007, 10:54 PM
the sim is stock - that plane is a Travel Aire from flightsim.com

I have a decent middle of the road rig...

AKA_TAGERT
05-26-2007, 11:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I am seeing more and more of the DF shootemup attitude coming into coops. I even was in a coop where one of the friendlies actually started shooting up the man in front of him... while they were taking off.

I see more and more... less courtesy.... Guys will see you working a target.. and rather than cover your 6 or wait for a clean shot they shoot over your shoulder... get in your way.. then get pissed off when you shoot them. I see guys that I know are not noobs.... who should know better... routinely shoulder shoot, kill steal.. the whole nine. In the past few weeks I have gone down in coops either because of friendly fire, collision, or crashing trying to avoid a collision.. Is this just me? Am I over reacting here or is this a trend someone else is seeing as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's the DVD..

Sadly.. the whole WHAT IF 46 napkin planes attracks alot of the X-WING Quakie crowd types.

Freelancer-1
05-26-2007, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I am seeing more and more of the DF shootemup attitude coming into coops. I even was in a coop where one of the friendlies actually started shooting up the man in front of him... while they were taking off.

I see more and more... less courtesy.... Guys will see you working a target.. and rather than cover your 6 or wait for a clean shot they shoot over your shoulder... get in your way.. then get pissed off when you shoot them. I see guys that I know are not noobs.... who should know better... routinely shoulder shoot, kill steal.. the whole nine. In the past few weeks I have gone down in coops either because of friendly fire, collision, or crashing trying to avoid a collision.. Is this just me? Am I over reacting here or is this a trend someone else is seeing as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's the DVD..

Sadly.. the whole WHAT IF 46 napkin planes attracks alot of the X-WING Quakie crowd types. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 85%

Oleg should have stayed away from the fantasy stuff, methinks.

Stiletto-
05-27-2007, 12:36 AM
Yeah, the whole 46 what if scenario planes... And it's funny how any kind of jets are hardly ever flown online, noone really uses much of the '46 content, but the box attracts them enough that they say "hey this 44 plane is pretty cool" and stay for the online part. Any many ways I guess you could say the same thing about the Pacific Add-On or the Ace Expansion pack... When it was just Eastern front content with alot of unknown planes that nobody knew or cared about, this game was alot more for the hard-core enthusiasts who simply cared that it was a well modelled realistic, WW2 sim of any variety.

Not that I have alot of bad online experiences, Zeke Vs. Wildcats, etc, what! what! (My shout out).

M_Gunz
05-27-2007, 01:00 AM
You might at least ask Bear if he plays those planes before dragging the thread into another
tangential peeve B&M/whine.

Bear, that's what you get for swimming in public pools... kicked by kids whose p1$$ you swim in.

You do know that it's about summer vacation time when the little couch potatoes find new excuses
to not go outside and get any exercise, like running from the others that beat them up. Instead
they go online and take it out in virtual. You can't cheat so easy IRL but online you can be as
strong and mean as anyone else and moreso against old fogeys that don't cheat.

It's all about feeling better, if that helps. When they grow (but not up) then they will have
all the traits and habits of people they should and probably do hate.

Timex62
05-27-2007, 01:24 AM
Thats funny, you have to deal with that all the time offline. Should I try my hand online sometime? (the AI that is...)

Korolov1986
05-27-2007, 01:47 AM
I haven't noticed anything like this in VFC coops, yet.

Can't say I've noticed it much in the dogfight servers I've visited either.

On the other hand, I don't notice much in the first place. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rnzoli
05-27-2007, 02:01 AM
I didn't see such trend on the co-op servers either. Maybe the score system discourages some of the stupid behaviour, but not the AI of course. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think you are overreacting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BrotherVoodoo
05-27-2007, 07:30 AM
Agreed 100% Bear. The coops have been a little dis-enchanting as of late. It really has the feel of a DM it seems. The scoring system certaily fuels the fire of that feeling. Make no mistake, the scoring system does not "discourage stupid behavior" it encourages it.

XyZspineZyX
05-27-2007, 07:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I am seeing more and more of the DF shootemup attitude coming into coops. I even was in a coop where one of the friendlies actually started shooting up the man in front of him... while they were taking off.

I see more and more... less courtesy.... Guys will see you working a target.. and rather than cover your 6 or wait for a clean shot they shoot over your shoulder... get in your way.. then get pissed off when you shoot them. I see guys that I know are not noobs.... who should know better... routinely shoulder shoot, kill steal.. the whole nine. In the past few weeks I have gone down in coops either because of friendly fire, collision, or crashing trying to avoid a collision.. Is this just me? Am I over reacting here or is this a trend someone else is seeing as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's the DVD..

Sadly.. the whole WHAT IF 46 napkin planes attracks alot of the X-WING Quakie crowd types. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 85%

Oleg should have stayed away from the fantasy stuff, methinks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More or less agree 100%

But-

the ability to just use the community itslef as a tool to avoid and shun these "Silliservers" has always been thte first and best defence

I used to play a car racing sim. It became very easy to recognise the "Whiners, Crashers and Cheaters" crowd

You simply did not associate with them, at all. never race with them, never allow them in your race, never even reply to their BS keyboatd tapping. they became Persona Non Grata

Don;t fly the servers with 'fanatsy'. Don;t fly the "Silliserver" lobbies. Don;t fly DF with people you recognise as idiots. Assume anyone flying with the idiots is probably an idiot, until proven otherwise

Fly servers that will kick the Silliserver players

slipBall
05-27-2007, 08:22 AM
This is what happen's when there is no chain of command. If somehow every one used teamspeak, and agreed to some sort of command structure, I think on-line play would be very cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
05-27-2007, 08:39 AM
Popularity has a price. When the old guard of hard-core flight simmers is suddenly swamped by kids it will get awkward. You can even see it to an extent on the forums.

XyZspineZyX
05-27-2007, 08:53 AM
But what seperates Men from Boys is how they deal with a problem

Players aren't forced into playing with the kiddies. Do something about it. Squads, kick the kidz. Servers, kick those players. Pilots, don't fly with the kidz

This is hard?

AKA_TAGERT
05-27-2007, 09:03 AM
Not hard.. Just more work for the server.

I fly a lot of coops with Aviar (he needs my good looks to balance out all the fugly) and he keeps listing of all the pilots that have done SILLY things in past coops and does not allow them to fly anymore.

For example.. there was this one mission with some AI.. The AI were these TBF's that we were escorting to a target.. Well this one kido.. that was on the side that was suppose to protect the TBFs got lost and decided to start shooting down the TBF.

I saw him doing it and ask him if he realized those planes are on our side and that we are suppose to be protecting them..

He said yes.. but that he got board because he did not see any enemy planes to shoot..

Those are the kind of kidos that make it to Aviar's list..

The short att span sound byte X-GENERATION X-BOX playin raised by a single parent (read woman) kind of kidos.

XyZspineZyX
05-27-2007, 09:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Not hard.. Just more work for the server.

I fly alot of coops with Aviar (he needs my good looks to balance out all the fugly) and he keeps track of the pilots that have done.. SILLY things and than he does not allow them to fly anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

to borrow a term

BINGO

if that's what the server wants, he will attract players that want that, too

PBNA-Boosher
05-27-2007, 09:07 AM
I don't know, I had some awesome fun with the HH last night flying coops. Yes, there was TS involved. I haven't been logging into HL lately, actually. With my ping spike problems I have no idea how to stay connected in servers like Warclouds and yes, I find some coop qualities deteriorating, but I prefer to stick with friends on this one. It makes it a lot more fun.

LEBillfish
05-27-2007, 09:37 AM
Yes Bearcat, in fact, so significantly of late some very respected folks that I used to fly with I've not seen for a month or two. A good example to use to highlight that point "Seahawk89", hope he just got as fed up as he was saying and nothing else caused his absense....

As to the "it's because of 1946, so folks lost their minds and all the crazies showed".....Well I don't buy that past the sim suddenly became accessible to a crowd that may of bypassed it before having to "collect" numerous versions.......Easy the name of the game with these folks, so their play would reflect that.........YET.....

How most were when they started, so, I'll tell you what the real problem is.

It's those of us that are veterens here, having in some cases played this just over 4 years. Of that group we still have a large contingent who act like they're 12, some so rude aand immature it has to be forced. In kind there is the balance of us that "tolerate" it. As by tolerating it, in fact often going with the flow it encourages such action.

The ONLY thing that will change such trends are for those in HL to quite simply not only show courtesy, yet demand it in kind. How do you demand it in such an annonymous venue?....Quite simly you exclude those that refuse to follow accepted standards.

There are of late only a select few hosts who's coops I will fly...........Not because of the host themselves, yet the players their coops draw. I'll not state which hosts as someone is sure to misinterpret and think I mean them/the host is the problem. Yet they're not...It's who their coops are drawing as it's light hearted, so in kind gets abused...Soon good players stop flying and the poor begin to fill the ranks.

It's simple, be courteous, be a gracious loser just don't exit, be an even more gracious winner. Fly the mission, read the brief, do the task assigned......Do all those things and more to be a good player, then lastly do NOT tolerate actions contrary....and frankly the "I'm drunk/in a bad mood/just goofing" excuses have gotten old. If someone is that much of a drunk, constantly in such a bad mood or such the town fool they can't restrain themselves, then they have more important things they should be doing then playing here.

How it is point blank.....There will always be internet fools....It's when those that know better allow it or worse still join in that has brought the coops to where they are.

leitmotiv
05-27-2007, 10:30 AM
Well stated, bravo.

ddpairborne59
05-27-2007, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
This is what happen's when there is no chain of command. If somehow every one used teamspeak, and agreed to some sort of command structure, I think on-line play would be very cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally agree! This is the way. Playing as a team with sense of order. IMO adds to the emersion factor.

XyZspineZyX
05-27-2007, 11:32 AM
Doesn't this assume that anyone with Teamspeak likes to BE a team player?

A bit of an assumption, I think

You need like-minded individuals, not a way to communicate easily

T_O_A_D
05-27-2007, 12:10 PM
Well said LEBillfish http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Yes Bearcat, in fact, so significantly of late some very respected folks that I used to fly with I've not seen for a month or two. A good example to use to highlight that point "Seahawk89", hope he just got as fed up as he was saying and nothing else caused his absense....

As to the "it's because of 1946, so folks lost their minds and all the crazies showed".....Well I don't buy that past the sim suddenly became accessible to a crowd that may of bypassed it before having to "collect" numerous versions.......Easy the name of the game with these folks, so their play would reflect that.........YET.....

How most were when they started, so, I'll tell you what the real problem is.

It's those of us that are veterens here, having in some cases played this just over 4 years. Of that group we still have a large contingent who act like they're 12, some so rude aand immature it has to be forced. In kind there is the balance of us that "tolerate" it. As by tolerating it, in fact often going with the flow it encourages such action.

The ONLY thing that will change such trends are for those in HL to quite simply not only show courtesy, yet demand it in kind. How do you demand it in such an annonymous venue?....Quite simly you exclude those that refuse to follow accepted standards.

There are of late only a select few hosts who's coops I will fly...........Not because of the host themselves, yet the players their coops draw. I'll not state which hosts as someone is sure to misinterpret and think I mean them/the host is the problem. Yet they're not...It's who their coops are drawing as it's light hearted, so in kind gets abused...Soon good players stop flying and the poor begin to fill the ranks.

It's simple, be courteous, be a gracious loser just don't exit, be an even more gracious winner. Fly the mission, read the brief, do the task assigned......Do all those things and more to be a good player, then lastly do NOT tolerate actions contrary....and frankly the "I'm drunk/in a bad mood/just goofing" excuses have gotten old. If someone is that much of a drunk, constantly in such a bad mood or such the town fool they can't restrain themselves, then they have more important things they should be doing then playing here.

How it is point blank.....There will always be internet fools....It's when those that know better allow it or worse still join in that has brought the coops to where they are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

slipBall
05-27-2007, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Doesn't this assume that anyone with Teamspeak likes to BE a team player?

A bit of an assumption, I think

You need like-minded individuals, not a way to communicate easily </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The key words were "if every one agreed".....not a easy task, but I have seen this happen on Spits vs 109s...it was one to remember, a really good time!


edit:
How bout this, a server with teamspeak in its title. Then only those interested in command structure would join up. As soon as you chose your aircraft you would report for duty, and receive your orders useing ts. I'm sure that a group stationed at the same base, could come up with a battle plan. A recent joiner would be told where to meet to assist in this effort. This server would attract only mature dedicated pilots looking for a taste of "real as it gets"....just a thought, I can dream http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

rnzoli
05-27-2007, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherVoodoo:
The scoring system certaily fuels the fire of that feeling. Make no mistake, the scoring system does not "discourage stupid behavior" it encourages it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that the built-in game score system encourages the stupid behaviour, but maybe it escaped your attention that I was talking about the scoring system of the "co-op servers", which runs a series of co-op missions (as long as players are present), and uses a point distribution logic which makes it totally indifferent for your own lasting and published scores, whether you, or your team mate downs the same aircraft. That takes care of the kill stealing idiots.

The server also tracks negative scores and although the first negative score is accepted (can be collision in flight or at takeoff), the second results in an automatic ban for next 30 minutes.

With that clarified, I know of only a single callsigns, which had to be banned in the past 7 months of the 102nd COOP dedicated server's operation. And the main problem was the abusive language, this person was deliberately tried harrasing other people in chat (he must have been flying with keyboard, as he was such a poor shot, could not hit even friendly well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

What was really strange is that later on I learnt that the same individual was also banned from the UK Dedicated servers, for same behavior.


Which brings me to the idea of sharing a common list of callsigns, who should be banned from all serious servers or co-op hosts.

I find it ridiculous that it may take a lot of time and frustration, while a troublemaker gets banned from all servers/hosts, because when he is banned from one, he will go to the other one, spoils fun for 1-2 days at least, goes to next, does it again...

So a simple list with this data could be useful to protect the gameplay quality on the good servers:

callsign
known aliases
first ban date
first server to ban
reason
other servers/hosts that support the ban
other servers/hosts, who don't support the ban

This list would help the server admins to combat the troublemakers.

It is very nice what LeBillfish say for example, but these troublemakers will never read what she says, because these guys are not interested in aviation, not interested in teamplay, but simply causing as much trouble as possible for the other players. So the more firmly they activities can be hindered, the earlier they give up and leave the IL-2 scene.

Copperhead310th
05-27-2007, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I am seeing more and more of the DF shootemup attitude coming into coops. I even was in a coop where one of the friendlies actually started shooting up the man in front of him... while they were taking off.

I see more and more... less courtesy.... Guys will see you working a target.. and rather than cover your 6 or wait for a clean shot they shoot over your shoulder... get in your way.. then get pissed off when you shoot them. I see guys that I know are not noobs.... who should know better... routinely shoulder shoot, kill steal.. the whole nine. In the past few weeks I have gone down in coops either because of friendly fire, collision, or crashing trying to avoid a collision.. Is this just me? Am I over reacting here or is this a trend someone else is seeing as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's the DVD..

Sadly.. the whole WHAT IF 46 napkin planes attracks alot of the X-WING Quakie crowd types. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 85%

Oleg should have stayed away from the fantasy stuff, methinks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dont say i didn't warn everyone that the whole what if idea was a bad idea to begin with. i kinda have to wonder what Ilya was smoking when he hatched this little gem of a plan. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

leitmotiv
05-27-2007, 03:27 PM
Methinks Copperhead got right to the root of the matter. More than one very good thing has been ruined by becoming popular with twits.

MEGILE
05-27-2007, 03:36 PM
I thought it said

A disturbing thread... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Swivet
05-27-2007, 04:19 PM
I feel your pain Bear, sometimes those passworded private servers with people we "know well", seem much more appealing... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Lord knows we got some good missions in our pocket... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rjel
05-27-2007, 04:53 PM
When I flew online back when, I'd flown with the same group of people for a considerable amount of time. Most of were like minded. Most all were competitive, but very few were so consumed with personal glory (I find that amusing with a game) that it detracted from my enjoyment flying with them online. As those folks drifted away, I flew DF servers until I got tired of some irksome attitudes exhibited there.

One thought I've always wanted to see in a coop server was an idea sorta like what was used in the old DiD online wars. That is, once a pilot went down, or if he was playing stupid games like BearCat mentioned, he/she gets locked out of the action for a predetermined amount of time. An hour, a day, a week, whatever it is it would seem to me that it would make the experience more lifelike. A pilot would naturally be more cautious to avoid losing his ability to fly, rather than just hitting refly. People would break off more rather than push a bad situation.It might also eliminate AirQuake style fliers. Overall, I think it would provide a more memorable and enjoyable experience.

crazyivan1970
05-27-2007, 05:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I am seeing more and more of the DF shootemup attitude coming into coops. I even was in a coop where one of the friendlies actually started shooting up the man in front of him... while they were taking off.

I see more and more... less courtesy.... Gu
ys will see you working a target.. and rather than cover your 6 or wait for a clean shot they shoot over your shoulder... get in your way.. then get pissed off when you shoot them. I see guys that I know are not noobs.... who should know better... routinely shoulder shoot, kill steal.. the whole nine. In the past few weeks I have gone down in coops either because of friendly fire, collision, or crashing trying to avoid a collision.. Is this just me? Am I over reacting here or is this a trend someone else is seeing as well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's the DVD..

Sadly.. the whole WHAT IF 46 napkin planes attracks alot of the X-WING Quakie crowd types. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 85%

Oleg should have stayed away from the fantasy stuff, methinks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dont say i didn't warn everyone that the whole what if idea was a bad idea to begin with. i kinda have to wonder what Ilya was smoking when he hatched this little gem of a plan. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So why all of you supported? Oleg gimme gimme gimme... it wasnt meant for you... as far as western market goes... 404m was the grand finale. So dont tell me about your warnings. Blaming 1946 for idiots online is just plain silly.

I have been hosting coops since 2002... and did have occurances that BC described... so i can relate. As an advice i would suggest reporting nicks at HL forums...even if Jiri doesnt see it, other admins will. IP bans proved to be effective.

LEXX_Luthor
05-27-2007, 06:14 PM
Yep -- crazyivan got it right. Oleg made 46 for that Russia+ Market, and not for the self-boasting "hardcore" crowd of old timers here.

Bearcat99 -- AvBear at AvSim advised long ago -- fly with people you know.

AKA_TAGERT
05-27-2007, 07:15 PM
Sounds like someone needs a hug?

XyZspineZyX
05-27-2007, 08:26 PM
well it ain't me. I got the cooties anyway

Bearcat99
05-27-2007, 08:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrotherVoodoo:
Agreed 100% Bear. The coops have been a little dis-enchanting as of late. It really has the feel of a DM it seems. The scoring system certaily fuels the fire of that feeling. Make no mistake, the scoring system does not "discourage stupid behavior" it encourages it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It almost makes me want to run closed coops.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
But what seperates Men from Boys is how they deal with a problem

Players aren't forced into playing with the kiddies. Do something about it. Squads, kick the kidz. Servers, kick those players. Pilots, don't fly with the kidz

This is hard? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgr that... I know what you mean.... thats what we are starting.

ElAurens
05-27-2007, 09:13 PM
I stopped flying coops a long time ago.

No one, and I mean no one, flys the mission profile, most have flown the mission before and head straight off for where the air to air action is, and to h3ll with the objectives, including the hosts. Or conversely, they know exactly where the ground pounders are, or where they will be and make no attempt to "search" for them but just lie in wait for the easy kills, cause what the hey, no one is escorting the ground pounders anyway,like they should be.

Sorry if I have ruffled some feathers, but the last coops I flew in were all like this.

I'd love for you to prove me wrong, but it will be 2 weeks or so before I am online again, owing to hardware failure.

I'd be happy to join and be a team player, let me know.

VW-IceFire
05-27-2007, 09:19 PM
I think you guys are on the wrong track here. The "fantasy" planes I doubt have very much to do with stupid people showing up. Stupid people don't have a concept of fantasy planes...even the "OMG jets" types of people are somewhat of a fallacy I think. They almost never get to fly jets anyways.

Whats the problem then? Its simple, with so many iterations of the game being out, all of the movies on YouTube, and all of us hyping the game all the time (a very strong fan base we are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) the game has become more popular. We're now dealing with the mainstream gaming population and not just the enthusiasts. These people don't own books on aviation, don't real pilot biographies, haven't read the pilots manual on their favourite plane, don't even know what the planes do or what their role was. Most of them just want a good time and some pyrotechnics.

Which is not a bad thing per say. But it also means that you attract the kind that totally abuse everything, shoot up or ram their friendlies, fly in front of their buddies to intentionally generate a TK, kill stealing, and so forth. Its good for the future of flight simming (more dollars means more sequels) and bad because we have to deal with idiots.

Bearcat99
05-27-2007, 09:40 PM
I agree Ice...

civildog
05-27-2007, 10:17 PM
Once more into the breach...I've said this for years...

I've never really liked the DF rooms because they only encouraged disorganized, every man for himself type play that sooner or later would bleed over into the coops once the game was popular enough to get a large enough pool. They always reminded me of the online shooter deathmatch servers.

The last competition coop I was in was exactly like what Bearcat and others are describing, and exactly what I expected things to evolve into: most of the time no one is on comms, each side seemed to have as many teams as there were squads, everyone roars off into the blue in different directions for death and glory instead of forming up and following the plan (if they even bothered to read the briefing, and both sides had far too many idiots who would blast away at anything in front of them and scream bloody murder if you tried any "kill-stealing" (um, I always thought that was teamwork and covering my wingman...if your buddy overshoots you help him out by pasting the bad guy he's now in danger of getting in front of instead of watching him get shot down, but...).

Wildly unbalanced missions that far too often favor one side or the other are also a problem, they may happen in real life but in coops the play is supposed to be the thing. I've always tried balanced battles with an historical slant (no fantasy planes and combined arms type missions) but no one seems to pay attention to the mission objectives. They just want fighters and lots of easy targets so they can get their points and bragging rights. I say real bragging rights come from flying stormoviks at lawnmower altitude and pasting the heck out of the mission target while the escorts keep the bad guys at bay, or working hard or save the bombers so they can hit the target then bring them home alive. Once everyone returns to base with the mission actually accomplished they'll have something to brag about. But after a while I had to stop because I was working too hard for nothing.

I dunno how many of you all have ever playing shooters (or anything else) online but I've played most of them ever since you could play online and what I expected to happen eventually to this game is the same thing I saw again and again with Halflife, Doom, Team Fortress, and even Falcon. Eventually it all just comes down to camping, PK'ing, and getting power-ups ("What? No A-8's? Red gets 4 Lavochkins and we only get 8 A-6's? I don't wanna play that!").

Maybe what we need are announcements of good regular coops on these forums (or somewhere else) with a regular pool of players we all know? We could even host round robin so we don't overburden anyone. Basic requirements, like TS capability would be required, and squads could be optional. Just something for those of us who have been playing a mature, teamwork oriented game for the last 4-5 years and don't want to see the best way to fly this SIM (I think the DF'ers have forgotten that its a sim first and game second)fade away.

LEBillfish
05-27-2007, 11:07 PM
Three points to elucidate.......

First off, 1946/fantasy planes did nothing to make folks already here go nutty, and bring in new problems. Though early war stuff my thing, personally the 1946 content is nothing short of fascinating, and simply changes how "smart" combat is fought due to speed etc...

Secondly, bad players have been here since day one. Some have moved on, yet we still have some oldies to go with the new "no matter what venue" be it DF/Coops/Wars.....When I first joined IL2, there were a number war series I can't quite remember which (like scorched earth) I joined enjoying that type of play....In short oreder I quit most. Quit because folks were not following routes, not flying as a team, on and on........Those wars that generate coop like missions it is imperative you FOLLOW THE MISSION parameters. They are not set up to see how clever you are "gaming the game" yet to generate a specific encounter hence routes and altitudes. So when 1 person cheats, they cheat the entire game for all...They leave team mates hanging, cheat the enemy of their fair opportunity, cheat everyone..........Same way with coops.

Now don't get me wrong, there are challenging coop missions then rediculous where the originator has odds so stacked be it planes, objectives, altitudes to fly opposite the side they do you're sure to lose...So answer there is to not fly their missions......YET, we have numerous players that do as in the wars stated above and wreck the missions for everyone. ANswer is simple. Can't read the brief, fly the mission, play as a team and courteously....Then you won't be allowed to fly.

Lastly and most importantly, HyperLobby has been made a safe haven for trash....Point blank, we have a number who hang out there, often with multiple nicks, they never fly, who do nothing except insult and provoke everyone they can.

That's normal, again feeling no consequences it's expected. Yet what is troublesome is that those same folks hang out here under different names, and many here when they're performing their antics in HL encourage them and even join in....

These same people go out of their way to get the chuckleheads encouraging them, as then they feel important something they're clearly lacking r/l. Like what?...I've seen posted numerous times the same few calling others c*cks*ckers, f*ggots, slamming every aspect about another in the most vile of ways.....I myself sat there one night while one of these usual fools like he had often and used the words "c*nt, tw*t, gash, f*ckhole" more times then I could count directed by name at me......Yet many here found it amusing.

No problem, I blow it off.............Right up till those who have been here long, that I have flown with for 4 years join in to be the ******** to bevis.......Amazing....More so in that these same supposedly respected players know many of you have your kids on....and yet do it openly insulting you as well.

It stuns me, more so in that though I'll say something, openly condemning it, I watch many supposedly respectable adult males sit there and cower to it let alone add to it.

Amazing.......

Want to know what the problem is?........Anyone who lets it happen, in any form be it word in the lobby or deed in the coop. If you want someone to blame look in a mirror. There is the guilty one......Remember, they're not just insulting that one person, yet you seeing you'll be a follower to trash and calling you out on it........Many, not disappointing them.

This is "my sim".......You should see it as "your sim"...So why do you let others wreck it?...Don't ignore it, stop them.

P.s....You do know HL generates a log in your files yes?

Figure it out.

AKA_TAGERT
05-27-2007, 11:09 PM
Roger no absolutes.. but some

Badsight-
05-28-2007, 01:07 AM
you cant DF forever , eventually you will get bored with the same routine

coops become great at this point

just because they are out of the DF room doesnt mean the DF room mentality is out of their coop

K_Freddie
05-28-2007, 01:27 AM
So the co-ops are not really organised properly. This is what happens when it's a free for all to play server.

Shooting your own.. it's going to happen. Sometimes from incorrect ID'ing, bad judgement, and if intentional you gang up on the culprit - it'll leave the sever soon enough.

'Bad behaviour' does come a majority of newbies and a few old jokers. This is easily elliminated by having the server set to 'full real'(full real with reference to the game not RL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

We usually do this at the end of a long co-op where there is one that get's a twitch, and the rest go moggy in the then, now free for all. All in good fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

rnzoli
05-28-2007, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I think you guys are on the wrong track here. The "fantasy" planes I doubt have very much to do with stupid people showing up. Stupid people don't have a concept of fantasy planes...even the "OMG jets" types of people are somewhat of a fallacy I think. They almost never get to fly jets anyways.

Whats the problem then? Its simple, with so many iterations of the game being out, all of the movies on YouTube, and all of us hyping the game all the time (a very strong fan base we are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) the game has become more popular. We're now dealing with the mainstream gaming population and not just the enthusiasts. These people don't own books on aviation, don't real pilot biographies, haven't read the pilots manual on their favourite plane, don't even know what the planes do or what their role was. Most of them just want a good time and some pyrotechnics.

Which is not a bad thing per say. But it also means that you attract the kind that totally abuse everything, shoot up or ram their friendlies, fly in front of their buddies to intentionally generate a TK, kill stealing, and so forth. Its good for the future of flight simming (more dollars means more sequels) and bad because we have to deal with idiots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly my thoughts, although I would like to add this. It's not just a pure "money for Ilya, idiots for us" deal. Increased popularity also increased the true fan base as well, who got deeper into WW II aviation details, learnt the aircraft types (streghts/weaknesses), historical roles, bought a few aviation books etc. It would be a grave mistake to label every newcomer to the sim as temporary visitors with a shoot-them-up mentality. The more we can "convert" to regular fans, the better for our own fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
05-28-2007, 03:00 AM
rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Exactly my thoughts, although I would like to add this. It's not just a pure "money for Ilya, idiots for us" deal. Increased popularity also increased the true fan base as well, who got deeper into WW II aviation details, learnt the aircraft types (streghts/weaknesses), historical roles, bought a few aviation books etc. It would be a grave mistake to label every newcomer to the sim as temporary visitors with a shoot-them-up mentality. The more we can "convert" to regular fans, the better for our own fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But we label every newcomer to the sim as "arcade" and "wanting to cheat" if they don't play the game exactly as we want them to, or ask for immersion features that we don't want them to have.

If we have a problem with Online play stagnating as you have stated some time ago, we have a clue where to look, and it isn't the newcomers we attack and accuse of not wanting to play the game "our way."


IceFire:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">These people...haven't read the pilots manual on their favourite plane,... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Muwahahaha http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


The consensus here seems to be coming round to AvBear's old advice at Avsim -- fly with people you know.

Yellonet
05-28-2007, 03:50 AM
I don't think that the 1946-version had nothing to do with bringing disruptive gamers to "our" world nor do I think it's right to try to put the blame on something or someone, because anyway you twist it, these kind of players have always been around, and will still be around in times to come.

I say the more the merrier, we all know that the flight-simming business needs money, so personally I welcome the new blood, and at least to start with I think we'll have to accept a certain fast thrills mentality from the new players. Let's just try to edjucate them instead of shutting them out.

What we have to do instead of discussion how and why, we should discuss what we can do to set up good servers where people interested in playing with similar minded individuals who actually wants to follow a plan.

So, what can be done to get new people to get into the spirit of things and start enjoying going by the plan?

We have to get people to feel like their being entrusted, not untrusted, so how do we do this?
Possibly inviting people to the mission and handing out a pdf-document with a briefing and map with mission instructions. Making them know that people depend on each other in this game.
This way invited people would feel special in a way and would go that extra mile to play by the rules.
I don't know, I may be naive, but I really think something like this could work, at least on some people.
Flight-sims need new players, how many 15 year olds do you know that play "our" games?

Hoatee
05-28-2007, 04:28 AM
If you guys do an IP ban, make absolutely sure you are justified in doing so.

In WWIIonline I got a temporary ban for doing 'something stupid' - specifically for destroying aircraft on the ground (I'd spawn a bomber for example and drop the bombs while still on the tarmac). Out of frustration at the scoring system.....and only on the one day.

So after the temporary ban I returned to play and flipped a vehicle over - it can be an obstacle course there sometimes and it was quite by accident and definitely not by design. Next thing I see in the chat window ' I saw you do that, I'm gonna report you bla bla bla and nag nag nag ' and before I know it I get a permanent ban and lose 10 months play which I paid for - for what? Just because some idiot who thinks I'm cheating or doing 'something stupid'? And the ban is still effective after three and a half years! They've gotten rid of me for sure (meaning banning IP addresses is very effective - but I haven't been banned from Hyperlobby once and never will be I assure you - in addition to which the banned will not lose any money in the process).

About 'the tendency' - I can't imagine it would be because of the scoring system as it doesn't restrict access to aircraft in the way it does in WWIIonline. I can't think of any reason why anybody would want to disrupt any of the IL2 games - they're all that good to play both online and offline. It's probably more a case of spamming maybe (by disruptive action instead of by words).

Peptalk2007
05-28-2007, 04:51 AM
I would hate to see you ditching me because I'm new to this game and no one heard of me. I fly off-line and on-line DF but waiting to upgrade and get a soundcard and microphone before going coop. Now, I know I have screwed up once or twice killing friendlies, but that was due to my beginners trouble of identifying models, and even once because I thought the bar was read when apparently it was blue. I like to fly the no-icons DF servers because they teach how important identification is. When the time comes to go coop I would like to be given a chance to prove myself before being ditched.

I must say that what first caught my eye was the high standards of this forum and also the cheerful fair play of the on-line servers where there will always be a friendly stranger giving good advice and helping out. I think this sends positive signals to those who are new to the game and maybe, given some time, they will adjust themselves to this "feature" and grow into good guys/girls.

Cheers!

WOODY01
05-28-2007, 06:02 AM
I find flying in local communitys reduces the d*ckhead factor. I dont fly on HL much but I fly online alot. I find good healthy communitys self moderate to a point, someone comes in with a bad attitude they just end up being shuned by everyone and the group carries on.

In the Australasian region we fly coops in DF servers and coop missions and we have no attitude problems on any of them, just a good gathering of mates. New Pilots are welcomed and helped out where needed, but antisocial behaviour just isnt tolerated and basicly dosent exist.

Just remember HL is not the only place to fly and can be a magnet to d*ckheads because of its anonymity. Look local.

rnzoli
05-28-2007, 06:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peptalk2007:
I would hate to see you ditching me because I'm new to this game and no one heard of me. I fly off-line and on-line DF but waiting to upgrade and get a soundcard and microphone before going coop. Now, I know I have screwed up once or twice killing friendlies, but that was due to my beginners trouble of identifying models, and even once because I thought the bar was read when apparently it was blue. I like to fly the no-icons DF servers because they teach how important identification is. When the time comes to go coop I would like to be given a chance to prove myself before being ditched.

I must say that what first caught my eye was the high standards of this forum and also the cheerful fair play of the on-line servers where there will always be a friendly stranger giving good advice and helping out. I think this sends positive signals to those who are new to the game and maybe, given some time, they will adjust themselves to this "feature" and grow into good guys/girls.

Cheers! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's exactly my point. 95% of newcomers are okay, just because 5% is causing disturbances on the servers/coop missions, there is no reason for the community to turn invards and lock everyone out.

I have personally restarted missions and fellow-admins also did that on the 102nd COOP server because of newcomers had troubles (stalled out at air-starts fearing collision with AI on formation, crashed on takeoffs etc.). IMO the secret to a good start in online co-ops is this

1. Go with smaller co-ops first. If you join a huge battle with too many participant, you might find too many people busy with their own objectives, combats etc. Having less people in the mission means more relaxed time available for helping you.

2. State immediately that you are newcomer, and appreciate some more advice than normal. This is cue word for the helping insticts to kick in with the regulars, and you will get bearings, targets, TS info etc.

3. Try to get on TS even if only in listening mode (without microphone). This enables players to give you verbal advice (much faster than chat), while you can reply in chat anyway.

4. Avoid the most common 2 mistakes in co-ops by newcomers and always
- ask for takeoff permisiso nfrom tower (so you don't crash into the aircraft in front of you on the runway)
- map the key and remember how to release the chocks on a carrier (instead of searching desperately for the correct button and releasing your bombs instead).

5. If you did a mistake, DON'T LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. It's the most typical sign of troublemakers, although alot of shy people leave too quickly as well. Take time to apologise if it caused a problem for someone else (e.g., collision), and ask how you could have avoided the mistake. Chances are higher, that a non-critical mission with few players will be restarted for you with that attitude, so you can actually get to play with the guys, and avoid the mistake 2nd time.

Yellonet
05-28-2007, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peptalk2007:
I would hate to see you ditching me because I'm new to this game and no one heard of me. I fly off-line and on-line DF but waiting to upgrade and get a soundcard and microphone before going coop. Now, I know I have screwed up once or twice killing friendlies, but that was due to my beginners trouble of identifying models, and even once because I thought the bar was read when apparently it was blue. I like to fly the no-icons DF servers because they teach how important identification is. When the time comes to go coop I would like to be given a chance to prove myself before being ditched.

I must say that what first caught my eye was the high standards of this forum and also the cheerful fair play of the on-line servers where there will always be a friendly stranger giving good advice and helping out. I think this sends positive signals to those who are new to the game and maybe, given some time, they will adjust themselves to this "feature" and grow into good guys/girls.

Cheers! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree, there needs to be a certain acceptance of "bad" behaviour to give the new players time to adjust to the more mature environment compared to most FPS games and whatnot and people have to be allowed to make mistakes.

So, oldies! Don't keep new players out, invite them and in some respect take them under your wing and hopefully they'll feel responsible for what happens on the server and might just find out that they like the realistic and mature approach to killing and blowing stuff up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WOLFMondo
05-28-2007, 07:16 AM
THeres a nice feature on Xbox live, you can pick your style of play and enter one of four areas to play online so you can avoid the smacktards. Works most of the time but probably not practical for this kind of game/sim.

BrotherVoodoo
05-28-2007, 07:42 AM
Excellent feature Wolf, I wish we had it. Maybe they could change up HL and lable the rooms appropriatly to emulate the xbox feature. I'm not certain the issue would go away, but it may help.

crazyivan1970
05-28-2007, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoatee:
If you guys do an IP ban, make absolutely sure you are justified in doing so.

In WWIIonline I got a temporary ban for doing 'something stupid' - specifically for destroying aircraft on the ground (I'd spawn a bomber for example and drop the bombs while still on the tarmac). Out of frustration at the scoring system.....and only on the one day.

So after the temporary ban I returned to play and flipped a vehicle over - it can be an obstacle course there sometimes and it was quite by accident and definitely not by design. Next thing I see in the chat window ' I saw you do that, I'm gonna report you bla bla bla and nag nag nag ' and before I know it I get a permanent ban and lose 10 months play which I paid for - for what? Just because some idiot who thinks I'm cheating or doing 'something stupid'? And the ban is still effective after three and a half years! They've gotten rid of me for sure (meaning banning IP addresses is very effective - but I haven't been banned from Hyperlobby once and never will be I assure you - in addition to which the banned will not lose any money in the process).

About 'the tendency' - I can't imagine it would be because of the scoring system as it doesn't restrict access to aircraft in the way it does in WWIIonline. I can't think of any reason why anybody would want to disrupt any of the IL2 games - they're all that good to play both online and offline. It's probably more a case of spamming maybe (by disruptive action instead of by words). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are absolutely right Hoatee, issuing perm bans needs to be justified. But in the same time, it is rather easy to tell a difference between newcomer and someone who just wants to disrupt the game. We have helped quiet a few newcomers, some became regulars and flying with is for a while now. By we i dont mean VFC.. i mean the whole coop crowd. People want to fly, some not too shy and they ask questions, some either shy or dont even know how to use in the game chat. It doesnt take too much from the host or one of the experianced participant to spare few min and ask "Are you new? Can we help you?" after the COOP.

leitmotiv
05-28-2007, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Three points to elucidate.......

First off, 1946/fantasy planes did nothing to make folks already here go nutty, and bring in new problems. Though early war stuff my thing, personally the 1946 content is nothing short of fascinating, and simply changes how "smart" combat is fought due to speed etc...

Secondly, bad players have been here since day one. Some have moved on, yet we still have some oldies to go with the new "no matter what venue" be it DF/Coops/Wars.....When I first joined IL2, there were a number war series I can't quite remember which (like scorched earth) I joined enjoying that type of play....In short oreder I quit most. Quit because folks were not following routes, not flying as a team, on and on........Those wars that generate coop like missions it is imperative you FOLLOW THE MISSION parameters. They are not set up to see how clever you are "gaming the game" yet to generate a specific encounter hence routes and altitudes. So when 1 person cheats, they cheat the entire game for all...They leave team mates hanging, cheat the enemy of their fair opportunity, cheat everyone..........Same way with coops.

Now don't get me wrong, there are challenging coop missions then rediculous where the originator has odds so stacked be it planes, objectives, altitudes to fly opposite the side they do you're sure to lose...So answer there is to not fly their missions......YET, we have numerous players that do as in the wars stated above and wreck the missions for everyone. ANswer is simple. Can't read the brief, fly the mission, play as a team and courteously....Then you won't be allowed to fly.

Lastly and most importantly, HyperLobby has been made a safe haven for trash....Point blank, we have a number who hang out there, often with multiple nicks, they never fly, who do nothing except insult and provoke everyone they can.

That's normal, again feeling no consequences it's expected. Yet what is troublesome is that those same folks hang out here under different names, and many here when they're performing their antics in HL encourage them and even join in....

These same people go out of their way to get the chuckleheads encouraging them, as then they feel important something they're clearly lacking r/l. Like what?...I've seen posted numerous times the same few calling others c*cks*ckers, f*ggots, slamming every aspect about another in the most vile of ways.....I myself sat there one night while one of these usual fools like he had often and used the words "c*nt, tw*t, gash, f*ckhole" more times then I could count directed by name at me......Yet many here found it amusing.

No problem, I blow it off.............Right up till those who have been here long, that I have flown with for 4 years join in to be the ******** to bevis.......Amazing....More so in that these same supposedly respected players know many of you have your kids on....and yet do it openly insulting you as well.

It stuns me, more so in that though I'll say something, openly condemning it, I watch many supposedly respectable adult males sit there and cower to it let alone add to it.

Amazing.......

Want to know what the problem is?........Anyone who lets it happen, in any form be it word in the lobby or deed in the coop. If you want someone to blame look in a mirror. There is the guilty one......Remember, they're not just insulting that one person, yet you seeing you'll be a follower to trash and calling you out on it........Many, not disappointing them.

This is "my sim".......You should see it as "your sim"...So why do you let others wreck it?...Don't ignore it, stop them.

P.s....You do know HL generates a log in your files yes?

Figure it out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOW. All I can say is that it is idiocy like this that kills any interest I have in online. My life is busy and extremely stressful and the last thing I need is this kind of empty-skulled raillery in my leisure time. I left this behind the last time I was in a high school locker room in June 1970. That is really disgusting and crude language to fire at women. The males involved ought to be given therapeutic thrashings to organize their thinking and pull them out of the gutter. Amazing how many impotent weasels get "brave" given the screen of the internet. Truly pathetic.

Yellonet
05-28-2007, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
*big snip* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOW. All I can say is that it is idiocy like this that kills any interest I have in online. My life is busy and extremely stressful and the last thing I need is this kind of empty-skulled raillery in my leisure time. I left this behind the last time I was in a high school locker room in June 1970. That is really disgusting and crude language to fire at women. The males involved ought to be given therapeutic thrashings to organize their thinking and pull them out of the gutter. Amazing how many impotent weasels get "brave" given the screen of the internet. Truly pathetic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Looked like you where calling LEBillfish an idiot there for a moment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
05-28-2007, 11:50 AM
Far from it. Billfish is no idiot, but I can't say the same for those online paragons. They are proto wife beaters and lifelong tossers.

Ernst_Rohr
05-28-2007, 12:22 PM
I think its a mixed bag. IMO the 46 planes didn't bring in any appreciable surge in bad behavior, we had plenty of *******es flying before then. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I have seen a lot of bad behavior lately, and the vast majority of it comes down with this obsessive lust for killwhoring that some folks seem to suffer from. The only thing the jets and uberplanes have done is draw more of the testosterone poisoned "l33t" dweebs together in the same place at the same time.

I have seen it on good servers and in all types of servers. I originally went to full switch to get away from the arcade-kiddie mentality I saw creeping in. To be honest, for a long time, that really seemed to work ok. The kids got fast action and didnt worry about the "sim" portion of the game. The cranky old school sim jocks got all the stuff they wanted.

And if you really wanted the "sim" experience, you flew co-ops for that real mission flavor.

Over the last couple of years, I have noticed a lot more of the kill***** mentality invade all the servers, and public co-ops. Now, even on the good servers, you have absolutely idiotic behavior going on a regular basis, and ditto with public co-ops.

I also think that to a certain degree, the servers arent as moderated as they used to be either. I remember seeing idiots getting banned from servers for some of the behavior that has gotten to be run of the mill now. To a certain extent thats because folks have moved on to other things, or dont have the time they used to, but it does show in the general lack of respect you seem sometimes.

To be honest, I would love to find another dedicated co-op group. I fly in Scorched Earth campaign with my squad, and its been and absolute blast. The focus there is on completing the mission NOT on racking up kills.

Flying the mission only gets people pissed off online now. I can tick off several times where we flew the mission and plastered our objectives, and won the map. Only to be roundly *****ed out by all the whiny kill*****s because they "just" started to fight.

Its gotten to the point that if I join a server or co-op and there ain't comms and teamwork, I'm gone.

This is still a great sim, and there are some great people to fly with. We just need to get more of them in the same place at the same time, and train all the newbies on the RIGHT way to do things, and leave all the foul mouthed, killwhoring, shoulder shooting, smoker jumping smacktards to their own devices.

I still have good times flying, and there are still good servers and co-ops out there. All we really need to do is winnow down the idiots and take back the sim for the folks that really want to be here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

civildog
05-28-2007, 01:29 PM
Peptalk2007:

Nobody'll boot you for being new to the game and making mistakes. Heck, sometimes I've accidently shot down or damaged a wingmate because I'd hit him instead of the bad guy on his tail in turn fight.

Ideally, and what Ive done and others have, we often try to mentor the new guys so they learn how to play the game and don't get frustrated by its learning curve. And hopefully show them the advantages of teamwork and fairplay.

More of that would also help in coop play. Yeah, I was shot down any a time in coop by the same guy in an online war, but after he'd killed my plane he'd always make sure to let me know my tail was clear so I could bail out. That's the sort of example we could use more of and need to pass on.

slo_1_2_3
05-28-2007, 03:29 PM
I was on zekes vs. wildcats the other night . I was flying a betty and tryin to join up with some other betties and some moron in a zero shot half of us, horribly obvious we were friendlies but he kept shooting. I guess some people are just...not fit for teamwork, or aparently even having a team

slo_1_2_3
05-28-2007, 03:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Yes Bearcat, in fact, so significantly of late some very respected folks that I used to fly with I've not seen for a month or two. A good example to use to highlight that point "Seahawk89", hope he just got as fed up as he was saying and nothing else caused his absense....

As to the "it's because of 1946, so folks lost their minds and all the crazies showed".....Well I don't buy that past the sim suddenly became accessible to a crowd that may of bypassed it before having to "collect" numerous versions.......Easy the name of the game with these folks, so their play would reflect that.........YET.....

How most were when they started, so, I'll tell you what the real problem is.

It's those of us that are veterens here, having in some cases played this just over 4 years. Of that group we still have a large contingent who act like they're 12, some so rude aand immature it has to be forced. In kind there is the balance of us that "tolerate" it. As by tolerating it, in fact often going with the flow it encourages such action.

The ONLY thing that will change such trends are for those in HL to quite simply not only show courtesy, yet demand it in kind. How do you demand it in such an annonymous venue?....Quite simly you exclude those that refuse to follow accepted standards.

There are of late only a select few hosts who's coops I will fly...........Not because of the host themselves, yet the players their coops draw. I'll not state which hosts as someone is sure to misinterpret and think I mean them/the host is the problem. Yet they're not...It's who their coops are drawing as it's light hearted, so in kind gets abused...Soon good players stop flying and the poor begin to fill the ranks.

It's simple, be courteous, be a gracious loser just don't exit, be an even more gracious winner. Fly the mission, read the brief, do the task assigned......Do all those things and more to be a good player, then lastly do NOT tolerate actions contrary....and frankly the "I'm drunk/in a bad mood/just goofing" excuses have gotten old. If someone is that much of a drunk, constantly in such a bad mood or such the town fool they can't restrain themselves, then they have more important things they should be doing then playing here.

How it is point blank.....There will always be internet fools....It's when those that know better allow it or worse still join in that has brought the coops to where they are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I agree

carguy_
05-28-2007, 04:22 PM
1.The more ppl play this game the better.Even if those are idiots their money have a huge power that helps the game extend.In the end it is good for us.

2.You can always limit who you flyin with.Either get ppl you know or change the difficulty settings.I have never said this but obviously 90% of here forumers come from easy settings servers,also coops.If you make easy settings then the possibility of running into a bonehead is bigger.
I`ve flown some of the forumer servers and I can say that only coops I enjoyed were crazyivan`s coops.Also EAF and JG5 make great coops that draw HL elite but that is about it.


3.Online wars.You ppl say you can`t/won`t wait 30minutes to play one mission.Well that is your choice.Time for gaming quality.Online wars also have their part of idiots but it is low and eventually you know who not to fly with.
I sometimes wait even two hours for one mission.But if this mission makes my day then I say it is worth it.Pure teamplay,wonderful flying skills,respectful opponents,emotions.


5.The more n00bs come here the better.Just like the first point,I enjoy showing them what real players are worth.Eventually,those who can not stand up to being beaten over and over till they gain some experience will leave.
In online wars,those who were worth it,stayed and learned whereas casual dogfighters left.More easy targets for some time too.

6.Fight those who do not change.The host must be someone of a despot.See those who repeatedly mess up the show,do not obey basic rules,do not hear to any kind of explanation.It is obvious that many people while in internet,act different than in real life because of anonimity and lack of "law" enforcement.
Some just need the rules to be explained to them in a different way.

Stew278
05-28-2007, 07:18 PM
Like many people here have said, increasing the popularity of the game is mostly a good thing. You need fresh blood to keep things going as the old timers get bored and move on to other games until SoW is released. Not to mention that more copies of the game being sold is good for the developer. Although I suspect people pulling the kind of cr*p described here are the same sorts that would use pirated games.

The good thing is that a-holes that do that kind of stuff usually have no attention span or dedication so they soon get bored and move on when the next blood n guts, boom boom boom, kill kill kill game is released. Besides, when you're playing a game that includes shooting and destroying things you are bound to attract a few loonies that go overboard and want to shoot everything in sight.

Everyone here keeps referring to these people as kids, but I'm sure alot of them are adults that are just egocentric and immature.

Would it be possible for the server to declare one player on each team during co-ops as the commanding officer and give them the authority to kick players that are deliberately teamkilling?

Making closed-circles of people to fly with is probably doomed to fail because eventually people will lose interest or other commitments will pull them away. It seems like that happens with squads, so why wouldn't it happen with servers?

If you make the game too uninviting to newcomers online things will die off. Its already pretty daunting due to the skill gap between the noobs and experten. I've been playing this series since early '02. A few months back I decided to try flying online and I was getting my tail kicked so bad I felt like my username should be "target practice". I can't imagine how tough it is for people that just got into the game to fly online.

Persecutor_352
05-28-2007, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Making closed-circles of people to fly with is probably doomed to fail because eventually people will lose interest or other commitments will pull them away. It seems like that happens with squads, so why wouldn't it happen with servers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our experience has been the opposite; making and flying with a closed-circle of people (friends) has worked for the 352nd for 7 years and shows no sign of slowing. We've never been larger or had better attendance, and we are a much better group of virtual pilots now than we were just a year or so ago.

New blood is important. We've found that one needs to set "rules", or better expressed, "expectations" and be open to guests and selective to whom an invitation is extended. We've flown with many other squads and most of them are, like us, still around and still strong, and made up of the same quality folks.

We generally don't fly on HL for many of the reasons that are expressed on this thread, but HL is an excellent advertising media; how else would many potentially good squad mates ever learn of a potential group of friends?

When all is said and done, this is a hobby, albeit one taken very seriously by many of us. One gets out of one's hobby about what one puts into it.

@BillFish, your message was alarming and horrifying. It goes without saying that no defense can be offered for such behavior, which should never be tolerated anywhere, anytime, to man or woman. It is simply unthinkable among friends. It is yet another very good reason to join a squad, fly with friends, and keep an open mind to visitors and potential new members.

For what it's worth, I see the same trend that Bearcat is describing in HL being displayed on these boards; for the first time in years I have actually used the "ignore" list.

I generally don't post much; the reference to squads got me on my soapbox though. My bad.

rnzoli
05-29-2007, 01:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stew278:
Would it be possible for the server to declare one player on each team during co-ops as the commanding officer and give them the authority to kick players that are deliberately teamkilling? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
During manual hosting, only the hosting person can kick players.

In my co-op server controller, anyone knowing the valid admin password can kick any other player. However, there can be one admin active at a time (not two or three).

We are currently thinking about the possibility to introduce "campaign admins", which are essentialy the CO's from both sides of a larger campaign, typically SEOW campaigns. This would give CO's posessing the campaign admin password the possibility to kick other players, even before mission launch. But only when their campaing is playing - not in other campaigns.

What we haven't thought of yet hoewever, is that a CO should be able to kick only on his side http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif kicking people on the other side would be too tempting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so good idea, thanks.

For the time being, idiots can be simply shot down by its squad. Negative scores result in a warning for the first time, owing to the possibility of accidents. So if you have an lone idiot on your side, you can shoot him straigt in the head in the beginning of the mission. If he remains for next mission, make sure that another member of your squad shoots him down, to avoid yourself being banned and penalized with negative scores http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
05-29-2007, 02:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
I was on zekes vs. wildcats the other night . I was flying a betty and tryin to join up with some other betties and some moron in a zero shot half of us, horribly obvious we were friendlies but he kept shooting. I guess some people are just...not fit for teamwork, or aparently even having a team </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I saw something similar yesterday on ZvsW. There was a guy shooting freindlies in a Am6..he was shooting anyone he could and then another guy in a Hellcat shooting people as they were taking off in the red base. He got the boot though.

Theres an overwhelming trend of shoulder shooting on there at the moment or guys whole take there own side down to get a single kill. Its pretty sad. Gone at the days when people would say 'S!' after a kill or cover team mates instead of shooting at them too to get there kill.

WholeHawg
05-29-2007, 10:13 AM
The sad thing is its not limited to Noobs either. I was on spits v 109s and I have had Admins shoot me down(Red on Red), shoulder shoot and kill steal. Generally I put up with most of this kinda stuff because it happens from time to time. But it was just getting really bad over there.

Zekes v Wildcat is pretty bad to but I can say no one has a problem pointing out a Tk'er and swarming him off the server.

MrMojok
05-29-2007, 10:14 AM
The dvd is out and school is out.

That may account for a lot of the buffoonery. It will taper off in time, as it always has when the goons become tired of it.

They will then go back to counterstrike or myspace.

Ernst_Rohr
05-29-2007, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrMojok:
The dvd is out and school is out.

That may account for a lot of the buffoonery. It will taper off in time, as it always has when the goons become tired of it.

They will then go back to counterstrike or myspace. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a lot to be said for that, but at the same time, I have flown with a couple of teenage kids who are both good pilots, and pretty respectful flyers.

I will take a polite cooperative 15 year old noob over a foul mouthed 35 year old killwhoring "expert" any day.

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-06-2007, 06:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Lastly and most importantly, HyperLobby has been made a safe haven for trash....Point blank, we have a number who hang out there, often with multiple nicks, they never fly, who do nothing except insult and provoke everyone they can....and many here when they're performing their antics in HL encourage them and even join in....I've seen posted numerous times the same few calling others c*cks*ckers, f*ggots, slamming every aspect about another in the most vile of ways.....I myself sat there one night while one of these usual fools like he had often and used the words "c*nt, tw*t, gash, f*ckhole" more times then I could count directed by name at me......Yet many here found it amusing.

No problem, I blow it off.............Right up till those who have been here long, that I have flown with for 4 years join in to be the ******** to bevis.......Amazing....More so in that these same supposedly respected players know many of you have your kids on....and yet do it openly insulting you as well.

It stuns me, more so in that though I'll say something, openly condemning it, I watch many supposedly respectable adult males sit there and cower to it let alone add to it.

Amazing.......

This is "my sim".......You should see it as "your sim"...So why do you let others wreck it?...Don't ignore it, stop them.

P.S....You do know HL generates a log in your files yes?

Figure it out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I can't say as I'm surprised to read some of this, yet I'm still offended...for you as well as anyone else who had to witness it. As for the participants? What can one say? Perceived empowerment coupled with anonymity gives many people the impression they are unaccountable and it encourages irresponsibility.

I've nothing against HL, but in all the times I've used it (which hasn't been for a couple years) I can't remember ever actually reading the chat. I would look for friends and populated servers (coops or DF) and attempt to utilize my limited flying time to its best effect. I browse a few forums during the day (I exercise a bit of executive privilige...so what?) but when it's time to fly, that's what I do.

I've never seen much use for a chat in a game-server lobby and this post is further justification...I use ASE.


TB

Bearcat99
06-06-2007, 07:23 AM
Thats one reason why very often I don't even read the chat... In addition to the language that Billfish mentioned (I never saw them directed at her.. I would have surely said something if I had) I can't tell you how many times I have seen the raghead, porch monkey, ******* cr@p floating across the screen often posted by people I see here, to the point where, after repeated messages to HL with no action I just stopped reading the chat as intently as I used to. I come there to fly and hang out.. those I socialize with and share a mutual respect for PM me... or vice versa.. If I see someone salute the 99th I often have to have my attention drawn to it. It is sad.. but you can't dictate or legislate common courtesy and decency... All you can do is try to exemplify it as best you can .

Our coops are never lacking in good, solid flyers... and we now will boot offenders in a heartbeat....

WilhelmVonPrang
06-06-2007, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">you can't dictate or legislate common courtesy and decency... All you can do is try to exemplify it as best you can . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps it is just a reflection of the examples set by so-called 'leaders' in the real world today?

When immersed in such a sim as this, it can become hard to relate to what is happening, say, in the Middle East, or for that matter, on college campuses (Cho?)... Cognitive Dissonance will cloud even intelligent young minds, imo.

Willi Pranger
.

civildog
06-06-2007, 11:40 PM
Bearcat:

When and where are your coops?

Monterey13
06-07-2007, 12:47 AM
Geesh Bearcat, and I thought you were just ignoring me...lol
I guess I'll page my salutes from now on. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

WTE_Moleboy
06-07-2007, 01:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ernst_Rohr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrMojok:
The dvd is out and school is out.

That may account for a lot of the buffoonery. It will taper off in time, as it always has when the goons become tired of it.

They will then go back to counterstrike or myspace. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a lot to be said for that, but at the same time, I have flown with a couple of teenage kids who are both good pilots, and pretty respectful flyers.

I will take a polite cooperative 15 year old noob over a foul mouthed 35 year old killwhoring "expert" any day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Completely agree, I certainly fit in the younger category myself and know several very mature fliers in their teens. Its all about maturity, not age.

Hydra454
06-07-2007, 04:21 AM
Yes,I have noticed this trend as well Bearcat.I leave the game for a year (the real world beckoned),only to come back to see that there is sudden influx of "Aero-Quakers" running.It's all very frustrating and left me wondering "What the hell happened to this game" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Bearcat99
06-07-2007, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CivilDog:
Bearcat:

When and where are your coops? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No set time.. usually nightly from @2000 to midnight.. either myself, 99th_Patches, 99th_RockStar, 99th_Smoggy 0r 99th_WindDancer are hosting...

AKA_TAGERT
06-07-2007, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrMojok:
The dvd is out and school is out.

That may account for a lot of the buffoonery. It will taper off in time, as it always has when the goons become tired of it.

They will then go back to counterstrike or myspace. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Bingo!
That I am sure is the bulk of what we are seeing of late.

Monterey13
06-07-2007, 08:20 AM
I host both DF and coops online. I try to host the best coop missions that I have, and am always looking for more. I always enjoy when several members of same squad join in, because I know there is going to be some teamwork coming from them. The guys from the 99th join my server quite often, and some have told me that they really enjoy my missions.

That is the kind of stuff that I love to hear, knowing I am contributing to the enjoyment of the game.

One thing about hosting DF, and hanging out in HL chat sometimes, is it lets me have a look at players, and their actions. If I have observerd you behaving badly ingame, or are acting up in HL, like giving others a hard time, then you will never make it past the ready screen in my coops.

My guys like to fly in formation, practice wingman tactics, and coordinate our attack strategies. I have several new, mature pilots under my command, so some are just learning. We are teaching them all about teamplay, and how to fly with etiquette, while enjoying this sim immensely. We also adopted a minimum age limit for our group, which does seem to promote a more mature atmosphere.

If this seems like the environment that is for you, then feel free to join our servers anytime. If you just want to goof off, and don't care about anyone but yourself, then keep clear, or I will put you in the clear.

S!
{HD}XO_Monty

Stew278
06-07-2007, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Moleboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ernst_Rohr:

There is a lot to be said for that, but at the same time, I have flown with a couple of teenage kids who are both good pilots, and pretty respectful flyers.

I will take a polite cooperative 15 year old noob over a foul mouthed 35 year old killwhoring "expert" any day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Completely agree, I certainly fit in the younger category myself and know several very mature fliers in their teens. Its all about maturity, not age. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with this, age does not equate maturity.

In my case I've actually become less mature as I've gotten older http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If this series had been around when I was a kid you'd best believe I'd have been flying it seriously. As it was I had to settle for the old Lucasarts, Dynamix, and Microprose sims back then.

If the old timers are just dismissing the younger flyers as a bunch of kids goofing off, maybe a group of the youngsters should get together and show 'em how it's done http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

civildog
06-08-2007, 12:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CivilDog:
Bearcat:

When and where are your coops?


No set time.. usually nightly from @2000 to midnight.. either myself, 99th_Patches, 99th_RockStar, 99th_Smoggy 0r 99th_WindDancer are hosting...
-------------------------------------------------

So at the risk of sounding stupid, can I join you on HL or where....?

Kapt_A
06-18-2007, 04:58 PM
We recently started host coops over to hyperlobby and found out what you mean.There were your friendly shooters because they wanted instant action and the cursing in chat because they didn't want to do what parameters the mission required.

An idea that would work or help out is if as the host, you had the ability to 'kick out' of join list.If only for a short time so those who actually want to do the mission have the chance to join.