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Xiolablu3
04-19-2006, 02:11 PM
Hi there guys, just wondering if anyone had much info on this gun? I only just heard about it and would like to know more.

Is it some kind of 'super cannon'? Was it used in the war? WHat planes had it?

Xiolablu3
04-19-2006, 02:11 PM
Hi there guys, just wondering if anyone had much info on this gun? I only just heard about it and would like to know more.

Is it some kind of 'super cannon'? Was it used in the war? WHat planes had it?

-FI-RULES
04-19-2006, 02:22 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_MG213C

Xiolablu3
04-19-2006, 02:50 PM
Thanks mate, but I looked at that first. There is very little information there.

Kurfurst__
04-19-2006, 03:49 PM
It's a revolver-type cannon from Mauser with rotating chambers, like, err, a revolver, ie. NOT rotating barrels as on a Gatling type. Saves a lot of weight. Aden and DEFA are very closely related to it. The original Mauser type came in both 20mm and 30mm models, the former seems more attractive, but there were other types of the family, even with 50mm caliber.


A quick check with Hahn, shows :

MG 213C, with 20mm caliber, 75kg bare weight, and 1300 rounds/min fired at 1065 m/sec initial velocity.

MK 213C/30, in 30mm caliber, 75kg bare weight, fired 1180/min at 540m/sec.

Weapon was made up by ca. 170 parts.

Xiolablu3
04-19-2006, 03:58 PM
Thanks Kurfurst, thats one seriously wicked weapon.

luftluuver
04-19-2006, 05:56 PM
Size comparison to the MK103 and MK108

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1114844/s_ww2gr2.gif

tigertalon
04-19-2006, 07:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
MG 213C: 1300 rounds/min fired at 1065 m/sec initial velocity.

MK 213C/30: 1180/min at 540m/sec.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

wayno7777
04-19-2006, 10:37 PM
Imagine those in the nose of a 262....

Badsight.
04-19-2006, 11:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wayno7777:
Imagine those in the nose of a 262.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>exactly what the Mauser employees were doing

wayno7777
04-20-2006, 01:02 AM
I want.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

One13
04-20-2006, 05:44 AM
The 20mm version fired shells weighing 190g, the 30mm version fired 330g shells.
These were the best performing cannons of WW2 but only prototypes were built. It took until the 50's until a working revolver cannon was produced.

The Germans produced lots of experimental cannons, I always liked the look of the 55mm version of the MK108 (MK115?). It fired at 300rpm. One shell from this was calculated to bring down a B-17. The Me262 was to be fitted with 2 and the Do335 with 3.

luftluuver
04-20-2006, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by One13:
The Germans produced lots of experimental cannons, I always liked the look of the 55mm version of the MK108 (MK115?). It fired at 300rpm. One shell from this was calculated to bring down a B-17. The Me262 was to be fitted with 2 and the Do335 with 3. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It is MK112. Afaik it was only 1 Mk112 to be fitted.

JG52Karaya-X
04-20-2006, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Aden and DEFA are very closely related to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not only these but also the Russian NR-30 is an almost perfect copy of the 30mm version. The American M-39 is based on the 20mm version.

Kocur_
04-20-2006, 09:33 AM
MG-213C was designed by Mauser's Anton Politzer. First prototype was completed already in 1943, but it took next two years to perfect it. Still in 1945 when plant was overrun there were only 5 examples of latest version ready and ten more in various stages of completion, i.e. the cannon was still quite far from adoption.

By changing barrel, drum and feed sprocket a 20mm MG213C could be turned into 30mm MK213C. On some drawnings from Luftwaffe'46 site MG213/20 and MG213/30 designations are used.
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5873/mg213c13qx.png (http://imageshack.us)

The main assemblies are: barrel, drum with chambers, operating slide and belt mech all in common receiver. After the shot, the gun gas piston driven slide moves backwards and causes drum to rotate couterclockwise partially, which also rotates belt mech sprocket. In couter-recoil slide powered by return springs, fully rammes a round, which was partially rammed in previous cycle fully and another one partially to next chamber. Further cam on slide makes drum rotate fully, thus chamber with fresh round is brought with alignement with barrel, and one with empty case is put in extraction position. When slide is in fully forward position electrical circuit is closed and cannon can fire. Ejection of empty case is accomplished by gun gas bled from barrel into case mouth.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9493/mg213c21eq.png (http://imageshack.us)

American 20mm M39 is based on MG213C but there was a lot of developement between the two. M39 it is considerably different, most notably the barrel is at 6 o'clock position of drum, unlike MG213C where it is at 12 o'clock.

Both DEFA and ADEN are VERY close to MG213C, in fact they are copies of it. Not so strange since Anton Polizer worked in DEFA project after the war http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Also what became later Oerlikon KCA was based closely on MG213C and was designed with help of at least one guy from Politzer team.

Nothing I know of NR-30 indicates it was a revolver cannon, quite contrary. http://www.warbirds.jp/truth/s_gun4.htm
(takes some scrolling)
The only adopted soviet aerial revolver cannon I know of was R-23 - it was rather unusual (rounds fed into chambers from front!) and the only thing common with MG-213C was drum with chambers. http://www.geocities.com/russianammo/25mm.html

Xiolablu3
04-20-2006, 12:56 PM
Very interesting, thanks Kocur and all who gave input.