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mandrill7
01-15-2006, 07:54 AM
I'd like to do a campaign based on a Ki-84 unit in Kyushu in summer 1945. It seems the # of options for missions is pretty large - B-29 intercepts, intercepts on low level P-47 and Corsair intruder raids, shipping strikes, raids on US airfields on Okinawa and Ie Shima, kamikaze escorts, Betty escorts, etc. As well, the Ki-84 seems a satisfying a/c to fly and fight. However, I need a lot of help! Can someone give me pointers on the following?

1. What units would fly Ki-84's?

2. What tactics would be used? I had difficulty fighting P-51's and P-38's in the QMB because the US planes seemed to have a lot more E. Did the Japanese pilots compensate for this in any specific way?

3. Any other info that a IJNAF newb might have overlooked?

Thanks in advance!

mandrill7
01-15-2006, 07:54 AM
I'd like to do a campaign based on a Ki-84 unit in Kyushu in summer 1945. It seems the # of options for missions is pretty large - B-29 intercepts, intercepts on low level P-47 and Corsair intruder raids, shipping strikes, raids on US airfields on Okinawa and Ie Shima, kamikaze escorts, Betty escorts, etc. As well, the Ki-84 seems a satisfying a/c to fly and fight. However, I need a lot of help! Can someone give me pointers on the following?

1. What units would fly Ki-84's?

2. What tactics would be used? I had difficulty fighting P-51's and P-38's in the QMB because the US planes seemed to have a lot more E. Did the Japanese pilots compensate for this in any specific way?

3. Any other info that a IJNAF newb might have overlooked?

Thanks in advance!

FoolTrottel
01-15-2006, 08:13 AM
I've got a booklet called 'Aircraft Profile - Nakajima Ki-84'. 11 pages, could be of help.
I scanned it to a .pdf file, it's size is 4.5Mb

If you put yer email address in a PM to me, I can send it to you via email.

Have Fun!

VW-IceFire
01-15-2006, 08:35 AM
Done some reseach on the Ki-84 for my Ki-100/Ki-61 campaign. The Ki-84 units involved in Kyushu defense included the 102nd Sentai and I believe the 204th Sentai but don't quote me on either. I think they were stationed in this area.

Most of the Ki-84 units had switched from Ki-43's at one point or another so I imagine many of the pilots were trying to use the same tactics although I don't know how successful they were.

The Ki-84 is a unique hybrid of a energy fighter and a turn fighter. I find it has a quick snap high speed stall but I also find that it has a fairly decent turn rate despite its small wings. Probably its lighter than most and its engine gives it enough performance to pull through. Its flap design is also in the fowler or butterfly configuration so they are very efficient.

Personally I would use your turn and snap roll abilities to avoid the attacking American fighters and try and lure them into a close in battle. Even if they don't take the cake, if you can reverse the energy tables on them and gain advantage then you should be able to run them down.

Keep in mind that you do have Water-Methanol injection and that the engine gets hot and burns out quickly so you can only use this for a short period of time. Managing the engine with radiator flaps is a necessity.

mandrill7
01-15-2006, 10:13 AM
Basic ? that I forgot to ask: When do you go to stage 2 supercharger in the Ki-84? I anticipate that some of my missions will be ultra-high altitude intercepts of B-29's.

Any tips for Prop pitch at very high altitude with the Ki-84?

VW-IceFire
01-15-2006, 10:16 AM
Mmm I forget when you're supposed to switch it. The Ki-100 you switch around 3800-4000m. I suspect the Ki-84 would be about the same but not necessarily so.

Prop pitch you can reduce at higher altitudes if you want to cruise...but for maximum acceleration you want to leave it automatic at 100%.

neural_dream
01-15-2006, 10:34 AM
From the guide - I suppose I took it from the readme or I asked here.

2500m for Supercharger.

For other info refer to the guide under my sig.

Daiichidoku
01-15-2006, 10:58 AM
2500m?

i always thought the lowest alt was 3200-3400m

i always wait until 3600m, myself

neural_dream
01-15-2006, 11:06 AM
I remember. I took it from the readme (PF CD2).

"Switch supercharger speeds at 2,500 meters (8,200 feet)". That doesn't mean it's correct of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Grey_Mouser67
01-15-2006, 11:22 AM
I always start my test results with a disclaimer...but they are always close...I can get 587 km/hr at sea level radiators closed and 683 km/hr at 6000 meters...I think the performance falls off after that.

That makes you way way faster than a Hellcat...just don't turn with it. The Corsair will do 576 and 672 at the same altitudes so the Frank is faster and climbs better than the corsair...probably turns a bit better too.

The planes you need to be concerned about is the P-51 and P-38L Late...both have some characteristics that are superior to the Frank and those are the guys you need to watch out for....the Mustang is just plane faster and more slippery...it, like the Frank has a bad case of self induced wing separation or SIWS for short. Neither plane handles worth a darn with one wing.

The Lightning is sneaky...the Frank can out turn it at slow speed, but that airbrake on the L will guarentee any decent Lightning jock a shot at the Frank in turn...even if it is a snap shot. Frank has great rate of roll so jinking can be effective in prolonging a fight.

I uses mostly energy tactics because, except for the L, the Frank outclimbs most planes...just tail to tail head on passes, fight in the vertical and you'll win most battles unless you start with an E disadvantage.

vocatx
01-15-2006, 11:36 AM
First off, the Ki-84 was an IJAAF fighter, not an IJNAF fighter. The Japanese Army used the "Ki" designation, while the Navy used system similar to what the USN used, ironically enough.

While I am no "experten" on the '84, I do fly it fairly regularly on-line and will give you my impressions of it.

As far as the performance goes, you can use WEP as much as you want, even continuously, as long as you don't exceed 103% power, and use fully open cowl flaps. Shift the supercharger around three thousand meters. I very rarely use 100% pitch on any aircraft, except very near stall speed. I climb at around 90% in the '84, and cruise between 60 and 70%. I never use flaps on any aircraft when manuvering, except as a last ditch effort. You can out-turn almost any US aircraft other than the F4F or F2A, these you must BnZ.

According to "Japanese Army Air Force Aces 1937-45 (Osprey)", the following sentais used the Ki-84: 1,9,11,13,22 (first to recieve Ki-84),24,25,29,47,50,51,52,54,70,71,72,73,78,85,101, 102,103,104,111,112,200,246.

The Ki-84 is a great performer. I like the 'B model for all around dogfighting, but the 'C model will shred a bomber with it's 30mm cannon. You can take on just about any aircraft with it, and if you are careful not to get hit, come out on top. It doesn't take much damage to greatly degrade the performance of this aircraft, much like the FW190. A couple of hits to the wing and you are in deep trouble.

KrashanTopolova
01-15-2006, 04:00 PM
the most often-used evasion technique from Japanese pilots regardless of the type of aircraft they were flying at the time was the stall turn. Effective but then again many were left hanging in the sky by the propeller by a hotshot enemy pilot.
I find that none of the aircraft in the sim reproduce the stall turn anywhere near real; but then again I don't have rudder pedals.
Ki-84's were also used as kamikaze because of their bombload ability and speed. In Il-2 they could handle landing on the ground and beaches well because of their wide landing gear. This does't seem to be so well-modelled in PF. In general terms Ki-'s made their combat debut in New Guinea. All Japanese fighters tended to avoid confrontation with the B-17.

Xiolablu3
01-15-2006, 05:18 PM
If you are taking on P51's then do a lot of sharp turning beause you should be able to easily outurn the p51 at lower speeds.

mandrill7
01-15-2006, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
If you are taking on P51's then do a lot of sharp turning beause you should be able to easily outurn the p51 at lower speeds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is no self-respecting P51 or P-38L pilot - even AI - will T+B with you when they can B+Z and keep a big E advantage.

I ran a series of tests in the QMB and I also set up a # of Corsair missions vs the Ki-84 in my Corsair campaign. The Corsairs tended to win the DF's in my campaign, presumably because of a tougher plane and more suitable armament for fighter on fighter combat. I found I could out-turn a Ki-84 close in on my 6, banking hard, crossing my fingers and hitting Tab-7 until my flight arrived. I observed Corsairs taking a good beating from any Jap fighter before breaking free and then staying in the air and in the fight. Jap a/c on the other hand usually got killed or crippled by a solid salvo from an F4U and couldn't stay in the game.

I found that the Ki-84 killed the Hellcat easily in the QMB. It wasn't even close. My one trial of P-47 vs Ki-84, I rode the Jug and got bounced from above by the '84 at low altitude. Hmmmmm.... Any suggestions?? T+B-ing didn't seem to work that well somehow! (Now didn't I read somewhere that a Jug at sea level could out-turn any Jap fighter with ease?!)

KrashanTopolova
01-15-2006, 08:56 PM
the Jug has elliptical wings like the Spitfire. Great wing design but can be a slight weakness in that both a/c may tend to spin near the ground at higher than normal airpspeeds and lower (wing) angles of attack (so may the P-51). Use of flaps can make this tendency worse. Seafires were given clipped wings to improve the low level performance. The Ki-84 out-turns the Jug, keeps pace with or outclimbs many a/c and is extremely manouvreable. The Jug climbs very well. Jug performs well with height advantage as, like the p-40, it is faster in dive and has rugged protection against damage. Can use these to advantage when jumped.