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View Full Version : Fw 190A-5 1.65 ata - historically, when available?



Mr_Nakajima
02-11-2006, 01:39 AM
As someone who likes to fly historical and semi-historical missions, can someone tell me when the original and new 1.65ata Fw-109A-5s became available. Both are shown in the game as 1943 but I'd like something a bit more precise.

Thanks in advance,
Mr N

Mr_Nakajima
02-11-2006, 01:39 AM
As someone who likes to fly historical and semi-historical missions, can someone tell me when the original and new 1.65ata Fw-109A-5s became available. Both are shown in the game as 1943 but I'd like something a bit more precise.

Thanks in advance,
Mr N

Jumoschwanz
02-11-2006, 08:40 AM
HOw about asking Oleg in Oleg's ready room? He put the thing in the sim, so either he or one of his little elves or cohorts must have some documentation on this.

There has been more controversy on the FW190 in this sim than on any other fighter aircraft.

Including talk about how the whole range is derated and the new A5 is the only one with normal power.
That there was a derated model for the eastern front and this is what is in the sim.

Most books show the a-4 with some kind of boost, but the boost on the a4 in the sim was cut out long ago....

And on and on and on.

I know I heard first hand on teamspeak from an admin of a major online server that it will not be included in any online plane sets until documentation like you are searching for can be found.

Jumoschwanz

Mr_Nakajima
02-11-2006, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the reply Jumoschwanz. Somehow, I just knew it wouldn't be something as simple as 16th June 1943 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

faustnik
02-11-2006, 02:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Nakajima:
Thanks for the reply Jumoschwanz. Somehow, I just knew it wouldn't be something as simple as 16th June 1943 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We should be able to find that, but, you June '43 is good guess. The Fw190A5 running 1.65ata is a jabo version, that is where a lot of the controversy is coming from. It's high boost performance advantage is for 1KM and lower. I will try to nail down an exact date but, Summer '43 is the best answer we have right now.

Willey
02-11-2006, 06:34 PM
Actually, the A-5 and A-6 shouldn't have a WEP button (and the A-4 just 100%, not 110% http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). That's what the A-5 needs to get 1,65ata. It was called "Ausreißhilfe" (run away help) and was a C3 overboost to just run straight from the enemy after dropping the payload on a target. Usually, the whole engine needed maintenance after it has been used, not rarely it even had to be replaced completely. But it saved the pilots' lives http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Later, with the A-8 they were able to create a better overboost system that doesn't cripple the engine like the old one, and apart from that, it worked at any altitude whereas the Ausreißhilfe was just operable below 1000m and just above the charger jump. That new system was used in A-8, A-9 and D-9 (ingame: '44 variant).
As for the A-4 1,42 - the BMW-801D-2 had temperature problems in the FW (it was always a problem until the A-5), so it was restricted to 1,32ata (1560hp). But on the western front, quite some A-4 had the restriction removed after the Spit IX arrival (if I'm not mistaken), so it could develop the full 1780hp 1,42ata - BUT for just a single minute because of the heat development.
The A-5's longer nose fixed that problem, so 1780hp was available normally. The Ausreißhilfe boost raised it to ~2050hp, just like the later C3 boost - similarly to the A-4 1,42ata the first one was just for real emergencies.

lbhskier37
02-11-2006, 09:42 PM
Sorry Willey but pretty much everything you wrote there is completely incorrect. There is really good info on the completewasteofspace forums. A4s were only derated to 1.32Ata when a specific engine had a problem, or during the breakin period, which was done with any plane from any country. 1.42Ata was the standard rating of the A4. The 1.65Ata was used in the A5 and A6 only below 1000m at first, but eventually changes in the engine allowed that rating at all altitudes.

bun-bun195333
02-11-2006, 10:17 PM
Last Thursday...

robban75
02-12-2006, 01:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bun-bun195333:
Last Thursday... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

faustnik
02-14-2006, 02:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Nakajima:
As someone who likes to fly historical and semi-historical missions, can someone tell me when the original and new 1.65ata Fw-109A-5s became available. Both are shown in the game as 1943 but I'd like something a bit more precise.

Thanks in advance,
Mr N </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr_Nakajima,

I was able to find at least one date for you. In the Fw190A5/6 manual dating from August 1943, 1.65ata is allowed with the C3 injection kit. So, the answer is, at least that early. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I'll keep looking for earlier usage.

If anyone knows of an online war or DF server host that needs a copy of the original page, please let me know.

badatflyski
02-14-2006, 03:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Willey:
Actually, the A-5 and A-6 shouldn't have a WEP button (and the A-4 just 100%, not 110% http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). That's what the A-5 needs to get 1,65ata. It was called "Ausreißhilfe" (run away help) and was a C3 overboost to just run straight from the enemy after dropping the payload on a target. Usually, the whole engine needed maintenance after it has been used, not rarely it even had to be replaced completely. But it saved the pilots' lives http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Later, with the A-8 they were able to create a better overboost system that doesn't cripple the engine like the old one, and apart from that, it worked at any altitude whereas the Ausreißhilfe was just operable below 1000m and just above the charger jump. That new system was used in A-8, A-9 and D-9 (ingame: '44 variant).
As for the A-4 1,42 - the BMW-801D-2 had temperature problems in the FW (it was always a problem until the A-5), so it was restricted to 1,32ata (1560hp). But on the western front, quite some A-4 had the restriction removed after the Spit IX arrival (if I'm not mistaken), so it could develop the full 1780hp 1,42ata - BUT for just a single minute because of the heat development.
The A-5's longer nose fixed that problem, so 1780hp was available normally. The Ausreißhilfe boost raised it to ~2050hp, just like the later C3 boost - similarly to the A-4 1,42ata the first one was just for real emergencies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"buzzer sound"...Sorry but You are wrong!(where is the tradmark stuff?)
the temp problems were on the 801C engine and not on the D -Engine and all the D-Engines ran at 1.42ATA STANDARD except for the first 10 hours of use where they were limited to 1.32...just like a new bike you take in the shop...running down or something like that it's called.... and the use of C3 was not ment to boost the engine but to act like a non-shocking material that allows the engine to run with higher RPM without breaking the combustion chamber or valves. The heat expulsion problem was also solved by the use (already on the C-engine if i remember well) of better chromed and better manufactured exhaust pipes. And yes any pilot that used the Full power of the engine had to report it to his grease monkey who had to check the cilinders heads and combustion chambers...but it doesn't mean that the engine was broken!(not on the 801D, but on some of the 801C yes)
Ps: the C3 injection in the A8 was the same that those used on A5/6 but the only difference was it was build in factory and not in the field.