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View Full Version : The 20mm performance model is wrong



KLCARROLL1953
08-17-2006, 12:11 PM
It appears to me that there is a problem with the way that 20mm gunfire is modeled against larger targets.

The total lack of effect against vessels in the 2000 ton category is not realistic. I have had €œhands-on€ experience with both .50 cal and 20mm weapons, and I have seen what they are capable of when deployed correctly.

Smaller merchant vessels are typically €œsingle hull€ construction, and the hull plating is frequently in the .375€ to .500€ range. Even a .50 cal, when used with the correct ammo, would do serious damage to such a hull; €¦€¦and given an experienced operator, a close range encounter, and AP ammunition, the Browning .50 could be relied on to turn the engine room of such a vessel into a junkyard. Using Armor Piercing Incendiary rounds, (gotta love those €œsilver tips€) the fuel bunkers become inviting targets.

Now, €¦€¦.given the fact that the 20mm is a MUCH more capable round than the .50 BMG, one would expect all of the above to be true €œIn Spades€: €¦€¦.But this doesn€t seem to be the case.

I have seen post after post on this site where people report that they have dumped 1000 rounds of 20mm AP into a Small Merchant; €¦€¦.with no apparent effect! This is simply not accurate! I can assure you, €¦€¦1000 rounds of 20mm, properly applied, should be able to sink such a vessel.

Has anyone found a way of modifying the €œDamage Potential€ value for 20mm ammo???

KLCARROLL1953
08-17-2006, 12:11 PM
It appears to me that there is a problem with the way that 20mm gunfire is modeled against larger targets.

The total lack of effect against vessels in the 2000 ton category is not realistic. I have had €œhands-on€ experience with both .50 cal and 20mm weapons, and I have seen what they are capable of when deployed correctly.

Smaller merchant vessels are typically €œsingle hull€ construction, and the hull plating is frequently in the .375€ to .500€ range. Even a .50 cal, when used with the correct ammo, would do serious damage to such a hull; €¦€¦and given an experienced operator, a close range encounter, and AP ammunition, the Browning .50 could be relied on to turn the engine room of such a vessel into a junkyard. Using Armor Piercing Incendiary rounds, (gotta love those €œsilver tips€) the fuel bunkers become inviting targets.

Now, €¦€¦.given the fact that the 20mm is a MUCH more capable round than the .50 BMG, one would expect all of the above to be true €œIn Spades€: €¦€¦.But this doesn€t seem to be the case.

I have seen post after post on this site where people report that they have dumped 1000 rounds of 20mm AP into a Small Merchant; €¦€¦.with no apparent effect! This is simply not accurate! I can assure you, €¦€¦1000 rounds of 20mm, properly applied, should be able to sink such a vessel.

Has anyone found a way of modifying the €œDamage Potential€ value for 20mm ammo???

VikingGrandad
08-17-2006, 03:31 PM
Interesting suggestion. It sound like the kind of thing that could be modded, but I don't know enough about modding to advise you. Hopefully someone else will.

HeibgesU999
08-17-2006, 06:07 PM
You can shoot away the entire superstructure with a 20mm, but it doesn't seem to do any damage to the hull.

VikingGrandad
08-17-2006, 06:09 PM
Perhaps there is hope... Have you read this thread? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/1801045274)

If the enemy guns can be beefed up, surely our U-boat guns can be too?

Bubblehead1948
08-17-2006, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It appears to me that there is a problem with the way that 20mm gunfire is modeled against larger targets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif You are probably right. But the value of these weapons against larger targets as the war progresses will be offset by armed merchants. You will quickly find that attacking these with surface weapons is not worth the risk to the boat -even though you might do significant damage in an exchange.

I got a little tipsy one night and took on an ocean-going tug with a 20mm. I thought it would be an easy mark until it swung around to reveal
a 3 or 4 inch mount on the stern. It planted one right into my hull. The only thing I could do was keep firing like a mad man. The tug eventually caught fire and exploded, but you should have seen the damage I had to deal with then. Don't be too eager to pursue surface exchanges unless desperate.

Vamandrac_Steam
08-17-2006, 07:05 PM
There is a SH3 tweaker you can download that will allow you to change things like the power of the guns and what not.

http://rapidshare.de/files/28393128/SH3_Mini_Tweaker.exe.html

Iggins01
08-18-2006, 12:24 PM
yeah the 20mm is a big round and can do some damage, i have a collection of inert ordance and i have a 20mm dummy round in there, it is pretty big and they explod on contact so they have to do more damage to planes. i am running GW and i already tweaked the damage settigns for the planes, but from what i've read from former WW2 pilots they say about 5 rounds out 20mm will shoot down a fighter.

KLCARROLL1953
08-18-2006, 01:10 PM
STUKAKING:

Thanks!!!!!!

That "Mini Tweaker" utility was EXACTLY what the doctor ordered!

I was able to "tweak" my 20mm shell values so that a couple hundred of them actually had some effect on a Costal Merchant.

As I'm looking for Historical Accuracy, not game cheats, I am quite happy now!

Thanks again! ..........I owe you one!

Vamandrac_Steam
08-18-2006, 04:25 PM
Sure thing man, glad I could help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif