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Vanderstok
09-25-2007, 06:22 AM
I've just re-discovered the fun of moving mud http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and found the A-20 and B-25 to be very good aircraft for strafing vehicles!

I wonder what would be the top 5 best aircraft in this sim for ground attack?
Assuming local air superiority, important criteria will be:

-Accuracy (good stable gun platform)
-Firepower (packs a punch, ability to carry rockets/bombs as well)
-Toughness (should be able to survice that AAA hit)

The IL-2 will probably win hands down, because it scores on all points, but what other aircraft belong in the top 5? I hope to find some intersting aircraft I can try out in my next mission http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(I found a similar thread/poll from 2004, but we have some more aircraft nowadays..)

What's your choice?

Vanderstok
09-25-2007, 06:22 AM
I've just re-discovered the fun of moving mud http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and found the A-20 and B-25 to be very good aircraft for strafing vehicles!

I wonder what would be the top 5 best aircraft in this sim for ground attack?
Assuming local air superiority, important criteria will be:

-Accuracy (good stable gun platform)
-Firepower (packs a punch, ability to carry rockets/bombs as well)
-Toughness (should be able to survice that AAA hit)

The IL-2 will probably win hands down, because it scores on all points, but what other aircraft belong in the top 5? I hope to find some intersting aircraft I can try out in my next mission http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(I found a similar thread/poll from 2004, but we have some more aircraft nowadays..)

What's your choice?

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 06:25 AM
Beaufighter Mk.21

Vanderstok
09-25-2007, 06:30 AM
For now my guess would be:

1. IL-2 /10
2. Tempest
3. P-47
4. A-20
5. Me-110

Bearcat99
09-25-2007, 06:34 AM
Dont forget the P-38....

BGs_Ricky
09-25-2007, 06:40 AM
1. Il-2/10
2. Beaufighter
3. P-38 / P-47
4. Corsair
5. Bf-110

hi_stik
09-25-2007, 07:35 AM
P-38L is the most superior in-game strike aircraft, because it can:

A. Carry 5 salvos of the High-Velocity Aerial Rockets, the most powerful ground-attack rocket. No other aircraft carries as many salvos, save for the P-38J loaded out w/ 12x4.5" rockets (an inferior payload, plus a more drag-inducing loadout).

B. At the same time, carry a maximum of 2x1000lb. bombs, equivalent to the highest loadout to the other Allied fighter-bomber loadouts, or superior to them. Only the Corsair surpasses this loadout, but if flown in multiplayer, from a carrier, it cannot get off the deck w/ the higher loadouts. (The P-38J comes in 2nd in this regard, because it can carry 3 salvos of the slightly inferior 4.5" rockets, plus 2x1000lb. bombs)

C. 2 engines vastly improves survivability. Even if one catches fire, it WILL NOT EXPLODE, meaning you can still fly on to RTB.

D. It is rock steady, which while not a quantifiable attribute, it certainly is the full equal to, if not outright superior, all other strike aircraft. (The Me-110 is also very steady, but it has inferior elevator authority comparatively, meaning that strafe runs have to be longer and shallower in practice)

E. Both cannon and machine gun armament, AND firing directly down the nose, meaning that vehicles can be engaged from much greater range than wing-mounted weapons. This means AA vehicles can be neutralized from ranges exceeding 500 meters, provided you adjust fire based on bullet/shell drop. Only the Me-110, mentioned previously, has this advantage.

I don't care about "real life", it's not relevant to the game. IN THIS GAME, this is the best mudmover.

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-25-2007, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hi_stik:
P-38L is the most superior in-game strike aircraft, because it can:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


BINGO! No brainer actually. The sheer loadout is amazing and after dropping, it can haul@ss outta there. Not much for taking hits but not the worst either. Carries cannon and MG, bombs and a sh1tload of rockets.

It's the best mudmover without peer.

My favorite, though, is the IL2 series (with the IL10 included).

AG51_Razor
09-25-2007, 08:29 AM
hi_stik is right on! The Corsair and P-47 are a very close second.

stathem
09-25-2007, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hi_stik:
Only the Me-110, mentioned previously, has this advantage.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... + the Mosquito (and the Beaufighter)

4 x 20mm and 4 x .303 vs one twin barrelled AA gun? What would you do if you were the gun crew?

For me (most are mentioned now)

P-38
P-47
Corsair
Beaufighter
Mosquito

I'm sure some Axis a/c are equally deserving.

Friendly_flyer
09-25-2007, 08:33 AM
Another vote for the 110, a lovely plane!

Vanderstok
09-25-2007, 08:52 AM
Yup, the P-38 definitely goes in the list. But is it as rock-steady as an A-20 when strafing? I'll try tonight... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Breeze147
09-25-2007, 08:56 AM
I saw Saving Private Ryan so I know the p-51 should be in there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

triad773
09-25-2007, 09:01 AM
One plane I've been flying off and on is the P-39D. It had and 2x0.50 over the nose, 4x0.30 in the wings, and 37 mm cannon in the nose. It may not be top 5 but with all that firepower, its certainly in the top 10. I didn't think the P-39 should be overlooked, but it certainly isn't my favourite either.

Vanderstok
09-25-2007, 09:04 AM
Noticed this little preview on the Slovakia map WIP thread:

http://www.letka13.sk/~jurinko/creeping_death.rar (http://www.letka13.sk/%7Ejurinko/creeping_death.rar)

Nice map for mud-moving!

WIP thread here: http://www.letka13.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1820&postda...torder=asc&start=660 (http://www.letka13.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1820&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=660)

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-25-2007, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triad773:
One plane I've been flying off and on is the P-39D. It had and 2x0.50 over the nose, 4x0.30 in the wings, and 37 mm cannon in the nose. It may not be top 5 but with all that firepower, its certainly in the top 10. I didn't think the P-39 should be overlooked, but it certainly isn't my favourite either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As much as I love the P-39. It's not anywhere close to one of the best mudmovers in-game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Good guns, but cr4p for a loadout.

VW-IceFire
09-25-2007, 09:40 AM
A-20, Beaufighter, Tempest, Corsair, P-38, B-25, Bf110...all of these on my list as exemplary attack aircraft. Don't discount the Corsair...it can carry a full 4000lbs of bombs if taking off from a land base. It can also carry the Tiny Tim rockets. A Corsair can do some serious damage with both of this configurations...the Tiny Tim's can be used at extreme ranges as well with practice.

hi_stik
09-25-2007, 09:59 AM
Yes, I failed to mention the Beaufighter and Mosquito, but both these aircraft have significant failings.

The Beaufighter (And Mosquito) has a fantastic cannon & machine gun armament, AND can carry rockets, but it only has 4 salvos, and cannot be carried in combination w/ bombs. Also, it has zero escapability in any reasonable mid-war to late-war scenario, and cannot reasonably fight it's way out of a low-level interception.

The Mosquito is hampered by a pathetic bomb loadout, and also cannot reasonably fight it's way out of low-level interception.

The P-38L can outrun any Japanese aircraft, save for a J2M-series, or the Ki-84-series fighter. It can not outrun any late-war German fighter, but can equal, or better, their turn radii, giving a credible self-defence capability.

EDIT: Another factor in favor of the HVAR compared to the Brit 60lb. rockets, is that the HVAR is around 2.5x heavier, and assuming Oleg has equated rocket weight to explosive power, this would make the US HVAR rocket the most powerful direct-fire rocket in the game. I am of course ignoring the "TINY TIM", because while it is the biggest rocket available, it has a weak blast radius (it is an armor-piercing anti-ship rocket after all), compared to the standard high-explosive HVAR...

okb001
09-25-2007, 10:07 AM
I'll vote for the Hs-129 .. if it was flyable http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

VMF-214_Pappy
09-25-2007, 10:11 AM
History channel voted the P47 Thunderbolt best ground attack aircraft of all time.

Reason being it flew over 200,000 sorites and only 1% failed to return home, good firepower, could carry alot of armament, It score higher than Il2 because the Il2 was slow which made it more vulnerable, They even gave it a higher score than Modern attack planes ie the A-10. Other aircraft performed the ground attack role very wel. IMO its hands down P47 because it could take loads of damage reports of them returning to base with half cylinders shot out. A plane that brings its pilot home is a good plane.

I know History channel is not diffinitive proof, but what I have read about the JUG. She was the King of ground attack if not a very close runner up.

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triad773:
One plane I've been flying off and on is the P-39D. It had and 2x0.50 over the nose, 4x0.30 in the wings, and 37 mm cannon in the nose. It may not be top 5 but with all that firepower, its certainly in the top 10. I didn't think the P-39 should be overlooked, but it certainly isn't my favourite either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

than have a look in the P-63 !
lot of 37 shells, good bombload in game.........

VMF-214_Pappy
09-25-2007, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
I saw Saving Private Ryan so I know the p-51 should be in there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You got to be kidding me right, from a movie, Mustand achillies heal was known to be its water cool motor which made it higly vunerable to ground fire. Dont believe what u see in movies.

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 10:16 AM
pitty for a lot of brave pilots during the Korean War that the USAF used P-51D instead of P-47N as close support plane..........

crucislancer
09-25-2007, 10:19 AM
IL-2/IL-10
Corsair (C model for 20mm)
Tempest
P-47D
Beaufighter


This list is more a preference then what may be considered best. I don't have much ground attack experience in the P-38, and I generally stay away from the bigger bombers like the B-25.

hi_stik
09-25-2007, 10:37 AM
I have no doubt that in REAL LIFE, the 47 was the most superb ground attack fighter of the USAAF....


But in the game, it suffers from the wing-gun impediment, and the lack of the HVARs...

And, IN GAME, the P&W R-2800 is not nearly as impervious to damage as the REAL LIFE counterpart...

Things to consider in this discussion. I have no doubt the P-47 is a top 5 mudmover, IN GAME...but it pales in comparison to the P-38 in firepower, and weapons accuracy. It is roughly comparable in survivability, due to the weak tail assembly of the P-38.

crazyivan1970
09-25-2007, 10:45 AM
The one and only... IL-2

Cajun76
09-25-2007, 10:56 AM
With local air superiority, I would say the P-38L followed closely by the late Corsair. Third would be the P-47. The later IL-2's and IL-10 have a smallish loadout, they're OK, but moe is bettah.

One of the advantages the P-47 shares with the Corsair is the ability to make 2 bomb runs as opposed to the P-38 which drops it's freefall ordnance in one shot.

The 190F8 and Bf-110 are also pretty good, the 110 having a ridiculous plethora of loadout options. It can be tailored for just about any mission. It's let down by poor topspeed dive. It's not horrible, but I'm used to screaming down with the Thunderbolt. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

One interesting thing about the way the T-bolt is setup, it has those 500 pounders (supposed to be 1000 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif) far out on those broad wings. This allows for some creative bombing, especially skip bombing merchant shipping. For point bombing, lifting one wing a bit as you release allows a bit more spread when you pickle the 500 punders.

The most dramatic effect though is during a skip bomb run. Many merchant ships and barges are staggered in rows abreast. Starting 3000m to 4000m, line up two ships broadside, invert and let her go near vertical, then roll back. Continue to dive, letting the angle get more shallow. About 500m away you should be level, 100m or so above the water and coming in about 700km/h. Proper timing is critical. Closer yet, as you release, lift one wing. If done right, the lower bomb hits the first ship, while the second skips over and takes out the second. Two ships, one bomb release. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-25-2007, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_Pappy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
I saw Saving Private Ryan so I know the p-51 should be in there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You got to be kidding me right, from a movie, Mustand achillies heal was known to be its water cool motor which made it higly vunerable to ground fire. Dont believe what u see in movies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, he was joking....

Vipez-
09-25-2007, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_Pappy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
I saw Saving Private Ryan so I know the p-51 should be in there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You got to be kidding me right, from a movie, Mustand achillies heal was known to be its water cool motor which made it higly vunerable to ground fire. Dont believe what u see in movies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never trust a man with a smiley http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Friendly_flyer
09-25-2007, 12:12 PM
For an early war scenario, the Hurricane IIc isn't bad. It has no bombs or rockets, but the four 20 mm do a useful amount of damage, and the plane is rock steady when aiming.

Heliopause
09-25-2007, 12:18 PM
IL2/10...lots of armor

Whirlin_merlin
09-25-2007, 12:25 PM
Stuka, everything else is for big girl's blouses with far too much interest in surviving.

Vipez-
09-25-2007, 01:07 PM
In pure ground attack role in no particular order:

- HS-129
- IL-2/IL-10

HS-129 carried even more armour than IL-2s. Rather interesting What-IF if HS-129 had carried more reliable engines with more power (Like BMW 801 for example) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG51_Rudel
09-25-2007, 01:24 PM
In my opinion: (in game of course).

Top 5 Allied Mudmovers:

5. IL-2M
4. IL-10
3. Corsair
2. Thunderbolt D
1. The Twin Tail Devil(P38L)

Top 5 Axis Ground Jabo:

5. Me-262
4. Fw-190F
3. HS-129B
2. Me-110G
1. Ju-87D,G

VMF-214_Pappy
09-25-2007, 02:47 PM
P47 out scores them all on ablity to bring its pilot back alive. Over 200,000 and only 1% failed to return home so with hunders of holes and half the cylinders shot out.

Monterey13
09-25-2007, 03:52 PM
P-38L http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Have also taken out two ships with one bomb drop...in the P-38L.

Cajun76
09-25-2007, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_Pappy:
P47 out scores them all on ablity to bring its pilot back alive. Over 200,000 and only 1% failed to return home so with hunders of holes and half the cylinders shot out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Question was planes in the sim, as modeled. IRL, the P-47 hands down. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif It was actually less than 1%. It was only .7% of aircraft lost in combat.

Bremspropeller
09-25-2007, 04:06 PM
Jabo:

Any 190 with a bomb.


Mudmover:

Jug, Hog and Tempest on par.

Cajun76
09-25-2007, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monterey13:
P-38L http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Have also taken out two ships with one bomb drop...in the P-38L. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool, will have to try that. Was it similar to my method? Part of my point is that with the P-47 and Corsair you can make another bomb run and potentially get 4 ships using rockets, although in game, I'd probably choose the P-38L if there's no air threat due to it's precision bombing.

We need this, with 5 HVARS. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/bombextra.jpg

mortoma
09-25-2007, 07:13 PM
P-38 is great for this role but for some reason I prefer the P-47!! It is just so stable and is easier to bring back around on target. for some reason I don't like G'attack in the Me-110, seems hard to hit things with compared to mant others. Yes Beaufighter is good too but the Mossie is too fragile, therefore in game it's performance in this role is not as good as it should be. The Tempest is goood if you can avoid getting hit with AAA/flak.

na85
09-25-2007, 07:33 PM
Vulching with guns is a breeze with the 110