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View Full Version : P-51 vs. Spit's in game ....



womenfly
12-02-2005, 09:56 AM

Friendly_flyer
12-02-2005, 09:59 AM
Are you kidding? Spit all the way!

Hawgdog
12-02-2005, 10:02 AM
You mean theres servers where you fly allieds vs. allieds????

pffft.
question never comes up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FoolTrottel
12-02-2005, 01:06 PM
I voted 'Should get the most votes!' as I think that's the most appropriate choice.

p1ngu666
12-02-2005, 01:27 PM
shame there not german cos then they would handle well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Lethal_Hobo
12-02-2005, 01:29 PM
I think the spitfire can outmaneuver a P-51 and has more firepower, but I prefer the P-51 anywho because it can take a harder beating and i can land safer with the wider set landing gear.

and if you ever see my mother try to take off in a spitfire..... boom! But she can handle the P-51 most of the time

faustnik
12-02-2005, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
shame there not german cos then they would handle well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

faustnik
12-02-2005, 01:32 PM
Let me explain...

IRL, the Spit handled better at lower speeds but, nothing beat the Mustang for high speed maneuverability (broke the thread rules, sry). In PF the Spit handles better.

danjama
12-02-2005, 01:34 PM
Spitfire WOAD!

Daiichidoku
12-02-2005, 01:44 PM
there is absolutley NO difference between the two

both won not only the war, but all wars, past and fore

both are the only fighters that ever cross laypeople's minds, that and B 17s and lancasters, meaning wwII was fought and won with these 4 types only

ok, ok, spit vs 51?

all depends...will they fight low and slow, high and fast, and within the airfield perimeter, or 700miles distant?


i just hope this doesnt become a 38/spit thread

personally, i wish to see both types null each other out in a fight, thats justicehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bearcat99
12-02-2005, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Lethal_Hobo:
I think the spitfire can outmaneuver a P-51 and has more firepower, but I prefer the P-51 anywho because it can take a harder beating and i can land safer with the wider set landing gear.

I think the Spit is more maneuverable to.... but more firepower? NOT. Bigger guns... yeah... but bigger guns in limited quantity IMO = http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

I guess the idea was that the Spit was so maneuverable it could get into a favorable kill position easier and thus not need as many bullets. I like the Spits in the sim.... and as you all know I am a Pony driver... for better or worse.... but I try to stay out of situations where allied planes would even fight against allied planes.

ImpStarDuece
12-02-2005, 02:14 PM
Opps, I smell a .50 vs Hispano argument surfacing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The general consensus from armament experts is that 1 Hispano cannon = 2.5 - 3 .50 cals. The USN assesment was that 4 Hispanos w/ 200 rpg = 12 .50 cals w/ 400 rpg. So a Spitfire with 2x 20mm and 2 x 50 .cal will have *slightly* more firepower, at the expense of ammunition duration.

Spitfire fan that I am, I would have to go with the P-51 on this one.

1. Both top speed and cruising speed are much higher, at all altiudes.

2. Dive acceleration and zoom climb are better (even if only slightly)

3. Rate of roll is better.

4. Added advantage of the gyro gunsight.

5. Better rear vision.

If the fight starts fast and the Mustang driver is sensible, there is little that the Spitfire pilot can do but evade, head for lower altitudes, and hope for a mistake.

p1ngu666
12-02-2005, 02:19 PM
spit has cannons to pwn bombers

20mm hispano worth 3- 3.3 50cals, so its equal to a mustang or better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

has less bullets cos there more potent, and space and weight issues, ammo is heavy.

MEGILE
12-02-2005, 02:20 PM
Both are 109 and FW-190 killers at high altitude... I'd take the Spitfire for the cannons.

p1ngu666
12-02-2005, 02:22 PM
imp, the spit could out climb the p51 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

shame we dont have a 44 spit D:

IX/VIII vs p51b/c.....

JG53Frankyboy
12-02-2005, 02:27 PM
count me in for the Spitfire.
sure, the models we have have their proplems with the very fast late war LW fighters.

but:
1. they have canons , i cant handle (and hit) these .50cal Brownings for ****.
2. they dont lose their wings at high G manouvers

and yes, for the western front a 1944 Spitfire (higher boost MkIX or XIV) would be very welcome.

pourshot
12-02-2005, 02:42 PM
Spit all the way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Crapperhead
12-02-2005, 02:43 PM
Spitfire, as a nancyboy's wetdream ?! You outta be f... kiddin' me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

H3ll, it may be super ride here in this place, but you know very well who they called when sh... hit the fan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

keep dreamin boyz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

MEGILE
12-02-2005, 03:00 PM
Enjoy your vacation crapper.

Hope you wrap up well, I hear its a bit nippy in siberia this time of year.

Kuna15
12-02-2005, 03:01 PM
In game FB option 2 but I like P-51 better don't know why. A matter of taste I guess...

JG53Frankyboy
12-02-2005, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Crapperhead:
Spitfire, as a nancyboy's wetdream ?! You outta be f... kiddin' me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

H3ll, it may be super ride here in this place, but you know very well who they called when sh... hit the fan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

keep dreamin boyz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

well, not without reason the topic starter said "in the game" !

faustnik
12-02-2005, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:


shame we dont have a 44 spit D:



Oh, but, we do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WTE_Target
12-02-2005, 03:19 PM
I feel that it is hard to compare these two panes, they were designed with different intentions.

Firstly the P-51 evolved of the desire for range to strike the ememy where it hurt,at home.The use of the P-51 was first and foremost to be a escort fighter.

The need to dogfight was secondary and this comes out in the lack of manouverability ,range was the primary consideration,range and speed so that the escort could react to German interceptors and fight them off or at the very least disrupt them and spoil there attacks.

In other words the P-51 was a defensive sheild for an offensive weapon (Bombers).

The Spitfire on the other hand was designed as an airsuperiority weapon full stop.

The need to intercept agressive German intrusions as the over riding design necessity,the Spit is designed to kill,Bomber ,fighters what ever, it was meant to get in the air fast, from a paddock (cleared and levelled of course) if necessary.

The game I feel represents this well,a Pony strives to keep its speed up and make slashing attacks only to claw back height in readiness to do it again.

The Spit is much more the brawler that attacks with speed yet begins to thrive as the fight loses velocity and the turning begins.

For me the Spit is the supreme mount and if we ever get the Merlins to be fully boosted the Messers and FW's will have a much harder time running....opps sorry tactically withdrawing to regain advantage ;P

This is just my opinion and not meant to be a bagging of the Pony,I just prefer the interceptor to the escort role.

Hetzer_II
12-02-2005, 03:20 PM
shame there not german cos then they would handle well

its getting booring....

p1ngu666
12-02-2005, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crapperhead:
Spitfire, as a nancyboy's wetdream ?! You outta be f... kiddin' me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

H3ll, it may be super ride here in this place, but you know very well who they called when sh... hit the fan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

keep dreamin boyz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

well, not without reason the topic starter said "in the game" ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//typhoonpwn.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//mossiebright.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//rearnossiemid.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666///mossie3.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666///spit8highres.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666///tiffy1.jpg

those are the troubleshooters.
the mossie was a favourite of the locals, blessed with good looks, TWO merlins in perfect harmony its a obivous choice. coupled with extreme low alt flying, and gestapo pwning credentials help aswell.

tiffy, for when u haveto halt the german army, and make them compliment each other on there new brown trousers.

the spit? superb interceptor and photographic plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
12-02-2005, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Hetzer_II:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">shame there not german cos then they would handle well

its getting booring.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hm, could change it to bf and la i guess

stuka, he111 havent got amazing handling, fw is good, not amazing.

Fish6891
12-02-2005, 03:59 PM
P1ngu please stop being wrong.

I think you may have Ace in your blood, but in order to develope your Ace you need to stop being wrong first.

You is WRONG.

VW-IceFire
12-02-2005, 04:08 PM
Spitfire VS Mustang eh?

Let me explain.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Spitfire is a great close in dogfighter with a hint of an energy fighter tossed in. It turns well at medium speeds, its roll rate is average to good depending on speed and, it is very light on the controls.

The Mustang is a great energy fighter with a hint of a close in dogfighter tossed in. The exact opposite really. Its fast but it takes a bit of time to get its best speed. It picks up speed quickly in a dive. Its roll rate ranges from very average to excellent as the speed increases. Its somewhat medium to heavy on the controls at combat speeds but very light and sensitive at high speeds.

While the Spitfire can be thrown around to a degree without stalling too much...the Mustang must be treated with precision flying. Fly it with the right level of agressiveness and its fine but overstep your bounds in a fast paced and high tension dogfight and you can easily stall it.

p1ngu666
12-02-2005, 04:14 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//fish190.jpg

i said it wasnt amazing cos it wobbles abit, mind that wobble has helped me with my spray and pray sometimes, large swathes covered by the battleship guns...

MEGILE
12-02-2005, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Fish6891:

You is WRONG.

Hush nub, before I taunt you a second time.

faustnik
12-02-2005, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:

i said it wasnt amazing cos it wobbles abit, mind that wobble has helped me with my spray and pray sometimes, large swathes covered by the battleship guns...

Then that wobble should work for you in the Spit too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MEGILE
12-02-2005, 04:34 PM
Faustnik is a wobble exploiter. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

faustnik
12-02-2005, 04:36 PM
Wobble is a feature and not an exploit!

Xiolablu3
12-02-2005, 10:55 PM
Spitfire, I hate the low speed handling of the P51.

Plus the guns need so long to kill, you hardly ever do it in one or even 2 passes. You need to be stuck on his tail for a while, and that makes you vulnerable.

bolillo_loco
12-02-2005, 11:03 PM
no comparison, spit lacks range! Now don't be mislead by spitfire fan/boys who think that the spit actually had rane, it was a short ranged fighter that was left out of the war after bob!

p1ngu666
12-03-2005, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
no comparison, spit lacks range! Now don't be mislead by spitfire fan/boys who think that the spit actually had rane, it was a short ranged fighter that was left out of the war after bob!

didnt know u could fit fishing rods in a p38 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

maybe drag a net with those twin booms http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Xiolablu3
12-03-2005, 02:31 AM
I think Bollio needs to add a bit to his quote..

The Spit lacked the range ... 'to escort bombers to berlin and back'

That would make more sense.

tjaika1910
12-03-2005, 03:29 AM
I didnt read all the post so

- Spitfire is a airsuperiorty fighter originally made as a bomber interceptor

- Mustang became a long distance excort fighter

Both were excellent.

I WWII they said: a Mustang can do a lot of what a Spit can, but over Berlin...

When it comes to the modelling in the game:

I dont know, I havent compared to the real thing. But Spits is only late 43, mostly fighting in a (unrealistic heavily Luftwaffe-crowded) 44-45 scenario.

WOLFMondo
12-03-2005, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by Fish6891:
P1ngu please stop being wrong.

I think you may have Ace in your blood, but in order to develope your Ace you need to stop being wrong first.

You is WRONG.


Logic prevails.

FW190 is king.

Jetbuff
12-03-2005, 03:51 AM
It depends... what is more important to you? Scoring a kill or living to tell about it? For the former the Spit is much better suited in PF. It was and is an outstanding dogfighter, has great handling and great guns. However, get outnumbered or outmatched and you'll start wishing for that P-51. The latter is a dream at high speeds but rather dangerous at slow speeds. The great thing though is that you can usually outrun/out-dive most attackers if things start going south. The trick is to have the discipline to do so instead of trying to do some of that fancy pilot $h!t. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
12-03-2005, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by tjaika1910:
I didnt read all the post so

- Spitfire is a airsuperiorty fighter originally made as a bomber interceptor

- Mustang became a long distance excort fighter

Both were excellent.

I WWII they said: a Mustang can do a lot of what a Spit can, but over Berlin...

When it comes to the modelling in the game:

I dont know, I havent compared to the real thing. But Spits is only late 43, mostly fighting in a (unrealistic heavily Luftwaffe-crowded) 44-45 scenario.

when will the lies stop?. p51 was designed as a army co op plane, low level oblique photo recon, ground attack etc.

tjaika1910
12-03-2005, 09:15 AM
What lie?

I said it became a long distance excort fighter, not that it was designed as one. The british was mostly responsible for that, putting the Merlin engine in it.

It was surely needed although the P-47 was even more important (time beeing).

p1ngu666
12-03-2005, 09:22 AM
point
i quoted the wrong person http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif
sorry

tjaika1910
12-03-2005, 09:35 AM
BTW:

I do not exactly remember who said this (Günther Rall, or the guy with Mickey mouse in cockpit.... Galland?):

that luftwaffe definited lost when the allies loosend up the excorts and let them roam freely and engage by will. I'll guess it was mostly p-51s doing that job. (or was it?)

p1ngu666
12-03-2005, 10:01 AM
partly.

by that point i think the 8th had more fighters, so was able todo that, if u have limited resources closeish escort is better. the lw also favoured free jadg stuff (bomber crews didnt...)

think its also todo with a change of intended role's. rather than the bombers doing the destroying, they changed tobeing bait that did abit of damage.

incidently, the tuskegee's did close escort, and never lost a bomber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Daiichidoku
12-03-2005, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
when will the lies stop?. p51 was designed as a army co op plane, low level oblique photo recon, ground attack etc.


pingu, i hate the mustang, but you is wrong there

it was designed as an interceptor/pursuit to improve upon the P 40 the british originally asked for of NA to produce for them under licence to curtiss


it only became low level/recce/groundattack to get around congressional fiscal restraints so as to allow its production for usaac, everyone knew what it was really supposed to be

tjaika1910
12-03-2005, 10:28 AM
I am not sure of this Daiichidoku...

Didnt the british ask for P-40 (and had some Tomahawks) but the americans said:

We have a half-ready design that is much better, and it was finished in record time.

The british liked it but put the Merlin in it and the rest is history.

The americans did not at first fancy the idead of a Merlin powered american plane and it was american pilots used to Spitfire that caught up on that idea.

Also, P-51 with Allisons countinued over the war to make photorec, low level thing etc.

geetarman
12-03-2005, 10:39 AM
You wanna turn circles and loops at low to medium altitudes, flying a plane with great guns - go with a Spitfire. Just don't expect to survive very long when the blue horde shows up.

P-51 hands down for me. The Spit is worse at high speed than the Mustang is at low speed.

Actually, I'd rather be in a 150 Octane Thunderbolt more than a Mustang and much more than a Spit.

Kocur_
12-03-2005, 10:40 AM
The way I know it, is that British purchase comission approached NA to produce P-40, but Dutch Kindelberger convinced them, thay could get far better plane, even though powered by the same Allison. In fact it was va banque action, because NA didnt really work on future Mustang before that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
So British got their new plane instead of more P-40s, but Mustang was powered as in original proposal - by low alt Allison. That was source of early Mustangs tactical limitations. Of course British didnt approach NA to create mid/high alt fighter, because Merlins shippings were limited, and they knew there were no US high alt engines, but turbocharged ones - and selling that technology abroad was law prohibbited then.

Viper2005_
12-03-2005, 02:04 PM
In a fight between a Spitfire and a P-51, the P-51 should never lose, because its speed advantage allows it to refuse combat unless it has an advantage.

The Spitfire is a much better at dogfighting than the P-51. But all the P-51 driver has to do is walk away.

Of course, if we're comparing like with like, we should compare the Spitfire IXc or VIII with the P-51B, which evens things up a bit due to the relatively poor view afforded by the birdcage canopy, and the lack of hitting power afforded by 4 .50s.

I think it would just come down to a combination of luck and pilot skill.

danjama
12-03-2005, 02:08 PM
When i read most of these posts all i saw was blah blah blah blah blah http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Tazzers1968
12-03-2005, 02:32 PM
The Spitfire is a much better at dogfighting than the P-51. But all the P-51 driver has to do is walk away.

Or more acurately the P51 driver has to do is see the Spit before the attack and then walk away. Assuming of course that you are right. Which of course you might be, depending on which mark of Spit you are flying. You see nobody ever specifies the mark, they just say Spit or Spitfire or 'Spitty' if they are feeling particularly churlish.

Usually they have read up about the Mk5 and then pinned its atributes and capabilities to all Spitfire marks. Not very historic I understand but nonetheless all too frequently done. Please remember also that you need to then specify the mark of Mustang also. Are you talking about the B, the C or the D? Not strictly speaking a lot of difference or certainly not the same difference as when you are dealing with different marks of Spit but still, if you are going to do it, do it properly and then you can be properly brought to account when you get it wrong.

So please specify the mark of Spit to the mark of Mustang and I'll tell you why. The first 60 series Merlin Spits were in RAF service in 1942 at which time the Merlin Mustang was still in nappies or at best training pants. If you are talking about a 1944 P51D then you should in all fairness pit it against at a contemporay Spitfire of the era, the best, of course, because we are talking about the technically best (IMO the best) Mustang and that Spitfire would be easily the Mk14. Except we haven't got one. There is not much this side of a jet that can best a well flown Mk14 or even a late model Merlin Spit, not even a Mustang and I don't say that lightly either because the Pony is/was one of the very best. Argue it anyway you want to but please put some thought in before you post a reply.

Here's to Ray Hannah. Give a nod to Mark please sir.

Phil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HellToupee
12-03-2005, 03:31 PM
The spit is good at all speeds low and high speeds, while the unclipped loses a fair bit of roll rate its elevator still remains very responsive not enough to snap wings but more than the pilot can handle with blackout. The clipped also has good roll rate at all speeds. The only thing that really is annoying is the spitfires real low break up speed of 800-810kph.

PERSEUS1953
12-04-2005, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by womenfly:
Handling and Performance of P-51D-20N vs. Spitfire Mk IX in this game (not in real life).

Should either one be better then the other or equal? .... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Spitfire was originally designed as a short range interceptor(fast climb rate, minimal fuel)
It should out turn and out climb the P51 which is heavier and has the same engine(after the Brits figured out that the P51 was a dog with the the packard 1,100 engine and added the 1,700hp merlin to it and made a decent aeroplane.)
P51 was designed for a different mission (long range escort fighter).

The spitfire should out climb and out manoeuver the P51!!! It does depend on what model of both.

ColoradoBBQ
12-04-2005, 10:46 PM
In a co-alt postion when flown properly, the P-51 will defeat the Spitfire anytime. The P-51 has the ability escape the slower Spitfire and climb better at high speeds which can be used to gain a essential position for a firing pass.

Abbuzze
12-05-2005, 01:58 AM
Here a quote from some RL mockdogfights between Spits and P51 made by IAF pilots after the war.
It seems this "dogfights" was made in our quake arena, ahh dogfightroom style...



In mock dog-fights, we concluded that the Messerschmitt could out-climb, out-dive and out-zoom the Spitfire and Mustang. The Spitfire could out-turn the Messerschmitt, the most important manoeuvre in air combat, and both could out-turn the Mustang. The Mustang was the fastest, the Messerschmitt the slowest, though there was not much in it. The Mustang had the best visibility, important for a fighter aircraft, the Messerschmitt the worst. The Spitfire cockpit fitted like a glove, the Messerschmitt like a strait-jacket, the Mustang like a too comfortable armchair. The Spitfire had two 20-mm cannon and four .303 machine guns (sic, actually, the Spits had two .50s, not four .303s), the Mustang six 12.7-mm machine guns (a.k.a. .50 caliber), and the Messerschmitt two 20-mm cannon and two 7.92-mm machine guns synchronised to fire through the arc of the propeller.... Despite the pros and cons the Spitfire was everyone's first choice. (Levett 1994)

nakamura_kenji
12-05-2005, 02:40 AM
Messerschmitt two 20-mm cannon and two 7.92-mm machine guns

bf-109E? thought remember late model only 1 cannon mg-151-20 or mk-108 30mm? if so no very fair fight as 1944 plane v 1940 plane

from two take spitfire. it simple fly pacifc it faster everything except possible ki-84. it firepower much great compare p-51 and agility better. i take low bit speed as use to plane which slower than what fight so no loss. range no issue game as map no big enough

when fly ki-61/100 find spitfire/seafire much more threat as hard fight because agilty able match me. where p-51 if i see it he no problem as easy move out of his gun until he get anoy give up or make mistake. if p51 get behind high speed vertical dive i will do hope he follow when hit near max dive speed i combat flap and pull back hard to vertical climb safe knowledge p51 try same he lose wing ^_^(same work p-38 also they compressabilty)

arcadeace
12-05-2005, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
When i read most of these posts all i saw was blah blah blah blah blah http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Yours is one of the most intelligent answers I've read.

These comparison threads are very good at one thing, bringing out a few of our most thin-skinned members.

Abbuzze
12-05-2005, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Messerschmitt two 20-mm cannon and two 7.92-mm machine guns

bf-109E? thought remember late model only 1 cannon mg-151-20 or mk-108 30mm? if so no very fair fight as 1944 plane v 1940 plane
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, not the Emil, the Avia S199 was called Messerschmitt by the pilots of the Israeli Air Force. Nose MG´s with sync problems and gunpods under the wings. A Jumo bomberengine with only 1340 HP but a lot of torque and paddleblade propeller made them problably the most difficult 109 to take off and land...

Edit: but I don´t want to bring in the 109 in this discussion! I just wanted to quote what he said about the P51 and Spit.

Tazzers1968
12-05-2005, 06:56 AM
Which Spitfire Abbuzze? For that matter, which Mustang and which 109? Be specific or be ignored. The M14 Spit is no slower than a P51D and there isn't an awful lot in it regarding the Mk9 either. The Pony is faster at the top end, true, but the Spit accellerates faster, the P51 only wins hands down in the minds of American school children pretending they had a war with the Brits. Not in the real world.

Phil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 07:03 AM
With a P51D vs XIV I'd take the XIV every time. Not only is it as fast at medium and high altitude, it will outclimb and climb to a much higher ceiling than the P51D. While the P51 is struggling for air at 35,000ft the XIV is doing 420mph at 44,000ft. Put that in yer P5ID pipe and smoke it.

Abbuzze
12-05-2005, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Tazzers1968:
Which Spitfire Abbuzze? For that matter, which Mustang and which 109?

Phil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Here some stuff to read for you:
http://www.101squadron.com/101real/aircraft.html
The ME is like I described above,
Spits IXe and P51D´s are the one which were sold to Israeli forces after the war.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 07:22 AM
im surprised the 109 outclimbed the spit, but dont know what power they got from spit. 109 maybe climbed well on a wall of torque from the jumo

HellToupee
12-05-2005, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by ColoradoBBQ:
In a co-alt postion when flown properly, the P-51 will defeat the Spitfire anytime. The P-51 has the ability escape the slower Spitfire and climb better at high speeds which can be used to gain a essential position for a firing pass.

Well no, if the spitfire climbs it will be above the mustang should it come back, and i think spit even had a higher ceeling. High speed climbs dont have a very high rate of climb. So basically its a draw but in the end the spit would control the air http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mynameisroland
12-05-2005, 10:20 AM
Its a simple outcome

In game or in WW2 the Spitfire is and was a better dogfighter.

The Mustang is faster at some altitudes and has longer range, apart from that the Spitfire has the ability to outmanuver the Mustang, outclimb it and generally outfight it as soon as the Mustang decides to commit to a fight.

If you intend on hit and run tactics the Mustang is probably the better aircraft if you intend on fighting take the Spitfire.

Tazzers1968
12-05-2005, 12:26 PM
Abbuzze thanks for the link, its gone to my favourites but it doesn't clarify your position. Looks like most pilots reckoned it was allways too close to call anyway, which I think we all knew anyway.

Phil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Abbuzze
12-05-2005, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Tazzers1968:
Abbuzze thanks for the link, its gone to my favourites but it doesn't clarify your position. Looks like most pilots reckoned it was allways too close to call anyway, which I think we all knew anyway.

Phil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
At the end I don´t have a real position http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I just think it is an interesting report from a pilot that flow this planes in real live.
At the end we don´t know how they fought in this dogfight so it isn´t more than the impression of a real fighterpilt.

ploughman
12-06-2005, 02:46 AM
Now we all know pilot testimony isn't worth the debriefing paper it's written on. Hell no, the experience of flight can only be communicated correctly using graphs and tables.

Hang on, some freak just threw a toilet into my yard...