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View Full Version : P47 salvaged from Austrian Lake (w/ photos)



Blutarski2004
06-14-2005, 10:19 AM
Go here -


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422578/posts

Blutarski2004
06-14-2005, 10:19 AM
Go here -


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422578/posts

No601_prangster
06-14-2005, 10:31 AM
http://images.ibsys.com/2003/0429/2165787.jpg

These photos are obviously fake Luftwaffe propaganda the P47 is invulnerable I tell you!!

Jagdgeschwader2
06-14-2005, 10:31 AM
It's in good condition for being underwater all this time. I wish I could see what the name on the side was.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jagdgeschwader2s.jpg

SKIDRO_79FS
06-14-2005, 10:50 AM
I may be wrong but the writing appears to say something like "Dottie Mae", if you look close you can see the "Dot" and the "M"...

Jagdgeschwader2
06-14-2005, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SKIDRO_79FS:
I may be wrong but the writing appears to say something like "Dottie Mae", if you look close you can see the "Dot" and the "M"... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're correct. I don't think I'd stand too close to those fiftys. Even after all these years that ammo is more than likley still live.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jagdgeschwader2s.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-14-2005, 10:55 AM
Cool. I'd be interested to see what anyone can make of the history on this bird. I'll look into it myself as well.

TB

VonKlugermon
06-14-2005, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Cool. I'd be interested to see what anyone can make of the history on this bird. I'll look into it myself as well.

TB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure, but I think I saw a picture of this very aircraft in the "Aircraft Nose Art" book. I'll have to wait until I get home, but I seem to recall it was a pic of the pilot standing next to it on the tarmac before a mission.

Willy

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-14-2005, 11:19 AM
All I can currently find is a WASP pilot named Dorothy "Dottie" Mae Nichols that ferried warbirds from GB during WWII. Here's a quick link (scroll to the bottom): http://www.shoppolisislands.com/aircraftpage.htm

Looking for more/better info


TB

Taylortony
06-14-2005, 11:20 AM
you fools, it says "park the other way up"

dadada1
06-14-2005, 11:29 AM
Looks to be pretty much intact.

VonKlugermon
06-14-2005, 11:32 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
All I can currently find is a WASP pilot named Dorothy "Dottie" Mae Nichols that ferried warbirds from GB during WWII. Here's a quick link (scroll to the bottom): http://www.shoppolisislands.com/aircraftpage.htm

Looking for more/better info

Thunderbolt,

I found that same info. Not to uncommon for in theater flyers to know the WASP pilots. Could be a possibility. Another conjecture is this little note I found about the movie "Thunderbolt":

"The opening shots of the airfield, show a Thunderbolt named "DOTTIE". Dottie is my mother, and the pilot was her husband, George Lovato. The scene in the bar with a pilot playing an accordian is George. He sang and recorded a couple of records prior to the war. On October 31st, 1944, George Lovato and his plane "Dottie" went Missing in Action."

This guy flew in Italy, right next door to Austria, so could be a possibility.

Willy

DxyFlyr
06-14-2005, 11:46 AM
Here's something google turned up. Maybe this is his father's P-47?

P47Pilots.com (http://www.p47pilots.com/cfm_Guestbook.cfm?storytype=THEREIWAS&startid=31&motherlink=cfm_Guestbook.cfm&showperpage=10)


Look at the last post on the page.

DxyFlyr
06-14-2005, 11:49 AM
Bigger Pic Here (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=489252)

VonKlugermon
06-14-2005, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DxyFlyr:
Here's something google turned up. Maybe this is his father's P-47?

P47Pilots.com (http://www.p47pilots.com/cfm_Guestbook.cfm?storytype=THEREIWAS&startid=31&motherlink=cfm_Guestbook.cfm&showperpage=10)


Look at the last post on the page. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's even better! Check out these pics, note the bubble canopy, D-model torwards the bottom:

http://www.hellhawk.com/siebel.htm

Willy

T_O_A_D
06-14-2005, 11:57 AM
Amazing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Just Amazing, can't wait to see what comes of all this. Makes you wonder just how many more aircraft all types, are out there. In that lake and other strewn across the war fronts.

Now is this just a translation problem or are they saying the Pilot was still in it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Up to the damage of the crash, he remained well preserved to some extent in the 60 years </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope not, but if so God rest his soal.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Remarks: On 8th of May 1945 ,at the End of World War II, the US Air Force lost Airship Republic P-47D-25 Thunderbold at Lake Traunsee , Austria, after it had overflown the Concentration Camp of Ebensee, moving its wings as a sign of liberation. Shortly after that the airplane lost heigth and the airship touched the lake. The pilot succeeded in gaining heigth again, and jumped off the plane, before it crashed. The pilot survived so it was wellknown where the plane crashed.60 years later an American citizen was willing to pay the salvation charges. Now the airship is transferred to the United States of America to be restored there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that answers that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

woofiedog
06-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Blutarski2004... Great Photo's and story!

T_O_A_D
06-14-2005, 12:15 PM
Here is a little different perspective, I wonder was it resting upside down or up on the bottom?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/T_O_A_D/Aircraft%20Pics/DottieMay.jpg

Banger2004
06-14-2005, 12:28 PM
Tried to get picture to show, but finding it a black art. If you copy the large picture from one of the above posts, use Photoshop or similar to display photo.

Then if you get the Dodge/Burn tool and apply it to the shadowy areas, all is almost revealed!

Definitely Dottie M, possibly Ma something. Rather fetching noseart of a fine young woman too!

Don't know where serial numbers were painted on P47s, can't really see too much on the fuselage (especially at the rear, just ahead of the tailplanes ala RAF aircraft).

Can't really see any obvious signs of battle damage, however it looks possible that some panelling has come off below and slightly to the rear of the cockpit, but with my VERY limited experience of these things, it is only conjecture.

I imagine he ditched at fairly high speed though, with all the damage to the underside. Mind you, hit water at any speed and it hurts!
However, it looks as though the flaps may have ripped off when landing.

Purely my opinion of course, someone far more knowledgable than me may have some ideas.

Dizz_
06-14-2005, 12:29 PM
Toad,
If you use the brightness and contrast adjustments in photoshop you can draw out the top line of text. It definetely does say "Dottie" but the lower line still isn't legible to me. Could be "Mae". Looks like pretty distinct nose art on the forward cowl also.

Capt.England
06-14-2005, 12:30 PM
I did a bit of editing of the picture to try and read the name of the plane. Here it is-

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/pigman1971/1enhanced.jpg


It does look like the first name is Dottie.

Banger2004
06-14-2005, 12:33 PM
Just saw Toads post, looks like that just about sorts out the identity of the aircraft, surprised it did'nt smash itself up more after the pilot jumped.

DxyFlyr
06-14-2005, 12:45 PM
Looks like it was resting upside down with the nose buried in silt/ mud, tail angled up. There is a line from the cockpit glass to the bottom of the cowling (@ roughly Dottie's feet) where the paint above is better preserved.

Makes sense as the engine would have hit the bottom first. The plane was ditched, engine dropped first, inertia of tail flipping up and or control surfaces acting underwater forced the plane to overturn and "reverse course" eventually resting inverted on the top of it's nose on the bottom.

Just guessing.

SKIDRO_79FS
06-14-2005, 02:26 PM
According to a post on another forum, the pilot's name was 2/Lt. Henry G. Mohr, Jr. of the 405th FG 511thFS, 9th Air Force. He survived the crash.

The incident is supposedly covered in depth in the book Thundermonsters Over Europe by Reginald G. Nolte.

T_O_A_D
06-14-2005, 02:36 PM
Yes after posting flipped over pic I played with adobe some. But can not get any better look at the letters behind M I'm confident enough to leap and say it was Dottie Mae Since it was documented to be there and they found it again.

SKIDRO_79FS
06-14-2005, 02:43 PM
For some outstanding close ups shots of the nose art look here:
http://www.luftarchiv.de/bullet-board/viewtopic.php?t=2...3bd9d32ac54fdcadfb8d (http://www.luftarchiv.de/bullet-board/viewtopic.php?t=2350&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;star t=15&amp;sid=8888699299dd3bd9d32ac54fdcadfb8d)

On another forum I found that the aircraft was ditched on 8 May, 1945. The jury is still out on the aircraft's name but from the looks of it in that one photo there was definitely a second letter after the M so May or Mae are both good bets.

sakai2005
06-14-2005, 03:47 PM
there are more lake finds out there but,well just look at this link

http://www.seacoastonline.com/2003news/11252003/maine/62128.htm

NorrisMcWhirter
06-14-2005, 04:14 PM
Anyone know how many 20mm holes there are in it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Norris

JamesBlonde888
06-14-2005, 05:23 PM
I think she is called "Dottie Miss"

SKIDRO_79FS
06-14-2005, 06:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Anyone know how many 20mm holes there are in it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Norris </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering the date of the crash I'd say none http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Copperhead310th
06-14-2005, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Anyone know how many 20mm holes there are in it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Norris </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Always gotta be a smart @ss don'tcha luftie.

VonKlugermon
06-14-2005, 07:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SKIDRO_79FS:
According to a post on another forum, the pilot's name was 2/Lt. Henry G. Mohr, Jr. of the 405th FG 511thFS, 9th Air Force. He survived the crash.

The incident is supposedly covered in depth in the book Thundermonsters Over Europe by Reginald G. Nolte. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two wrong guesses on my part! Good to know he survived!

Willy

SKIDRO_79FS
06-15-2005, 12:35 AM
It has been confirmed that the aircraft was indeed named "Dottie Mae".

The good news is that this aircraft will be headed to the restoration shop and rumor has it that it might be made flyable again.

Incidently, the pilot, Henry G. Mohr, Jr. is still alive and was supposed to witness the recovery of his old mount but couldn't make it do to health problems. One of his squadronmates was there when the aircraft was recovered, however.

xTHRUDx
06-15-2005, 03:32 PM
here it is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/inglewood51/austria_david-walker.jpg

DxyFlyr
06-15-2005, 06:19 PM
Wow! Look at that. Amazing. Nice find Thrud.

Bo_Nidle
06-15-2005, 07:40 PM
If I can find out a bit more re-serials/codes etc I'll start work on a skin for this.If its the 405thFg/511Fs it should have a black nose and the codes K4. I need the serial number and individual aircraft letter. I think it may be green along its AG panel which is carried onto its canopy frame. Anyone with any info to help would be appreciated.That includes anything on the pilot/combat history etc.

Very cool to see a "jug" rescued in such remarkable condition considering where its been all this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NN_Pierre
06-16-2005, 12:35 AM
Hi all,
I just began to work on this skin too, from the excellent template of my friend Avirex.
IMO,distinctive color of 511th FS was yellow, which appears on the photographs of the wreck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/PierreAlfaro/Preview_DM.jpg
(WIP)

BigKahuna_GS
06-16-2005, 01:20 AM
S!


You guys are amazing !

Nice story Bluto !

Nice find Thrud !

Very Nice skin -- NN_Pierre !



_____

TC_Stele
06-16-2005, 10:32 AM
Is it standard to lift a plane in that condition by its wings? It looks like the supports tore into the front right wing.

Cool find, though. How did you track down that picture, Thrud?

SKIDRO_79FS
06-16-2005, 11:50 AM
The photo has been making the rounds throughout several aviation forums. As for the serial number, there are several people out there looking into that, on one forum a researcher has posted that he spoke with Mohr and he couldn't remember the coding or serial number.

Since the aircraft was lost towards the end of the war and wasn't lost as a result of contact with the enemy there isn't a Missing Aircrew Report to go from so this has made things a little tougher in finding all of the info but it's known for sure the coding on the aircraft began with K4.

According to Martin Kyburz, who really knows his stuff, "It is yellow painted over the ETO markings which were black on NMF ships - also the canopy-frame was yellow - and traces of the yellow color are still visible there, too."

I'll add more as I learn more, if anyone is interested.

BRASSTURTLE
06-17-2005, 11:59 AM
Printed here <span class="ev_code_RED">WITHOUT PERMISSION</span> of Evansville Courier & Press



CourierPress


URL: http://www.courierpress.com/ecp/news/article/0,1626,ECP_734_3861953,00.html
Rescued P-47 was built here

Getting it home no sure thing

By BYRON ROHRIG Courier & Press staff writer 812-464-7426 or blrohrig@evansville.net
June 17, 2005

A tail number obtained from the Air Force confirmed the P-47 Thunderbolt pulled from Lake Traunsee in Austria on Monday was built at Republic Aviation's Evansville plant. The number - 42-29150 - proved the plane was among 6,242 P-47s manufactured here between 1942 and 1945, said Kenneth D. Wilson, local Indiana Division of Republic Aviation historian. An independent serial list confirmed the Evansville origin of the plane, which Wilson said was delivered in June 1944.

News the plane was built in what is now the Whirlpool Corp. plant made more interesting the prospect of obtaining it for a proposed local homefront war museum. But locals interested in a presentable P-47 for Evansville appeared to know little Thursday about how likely that is. "It makes an interesting prospect," said Evansville LST Committee member and historian Tom Lonnberg. "We have people trying to pin down more details about it. That it's Evansville-built adds some intrigue. But what it would cost to bring it here and restore it is unknown."

"To have one that was made in Evansville would be extra special," said Mayor Jonathan Weinzapfel. "But it has to make sense financially and as part of an overall concept for the homefront war museum." However, getting the plane may be especially difficult, according to information received by the U.S. Embassy in Vienna, Austria. Army Sgt. Tana Mobley, a reservist serving there, said on Thursday that embassy officials learned the plane's rescue had been bankrolled by a German donor on behalf of an Austrian historical aircraft association. It wants to restore the aircraft for a museum of its own.

Meanwhile, more was learned Thursday about the circumstances of how the 11-month-old P-47D-28-RA - one of1,028 of that specific model built in Evansville, Wilson said - came to sink to the bottom of Traunsee Lake on the day after Germany surrendered.

On V-E (Victory in Europe) Day May 8, 1945, 2nd Lt. Henry G. Mohr Jr. flew the plane alongside a second P-47 on an armed reconnaissance mission over one of the Nazi's most notorious concentration-prisoner of war camps. During a low pass, Mohr broke off to avoid a smokestack and came in too low while attempting to rejoin his flight, said a spokesman with the Experimental Aircraft Association's 7,000-member Warbirds of America. The Wisconsin-based organization, interested in exhibition of ex-military aircraft, has been following closely this week's recovery operation.

A propeller struck the water's surface, damaging the engine, which lost power, said Warbirds spokesman Bill Fischer. The plane hit the water off Gmunden, Austria, at between 225 and 250 mph and abruptly sank. Mohr, who had no life raft or vest, got out of the cockpit and was pulled from the water by a boater.

Fischer said he learned the details from aviation historian Jack Cook, who in turn spoke with Mohr on Thursday. Cook, contacted afterward, verified the story. Mohr did not immediately respond to a reporter's e-mail.

Mohr's 15th combat mission was a low-level armed reconnaissance of a prisoner-of-war camp at Ebensee, at the southern tip of Traunsee Lake and located in one of the Nazis' most horrible concentration camps. Fischer said Mohr and the other P-47 pilot were under orders to attack the camp if they found evidence that the Germans were killing prisoners in a final, desperate deed.

The camp, where some 20,000 people are believed to have perished, was liberated the following day. It was unclear Thursday if Mohr - with the 9th Air Force, 405 Fighter Group, 511th Fighter Squadron - was taken prisoner.


Built not 5 miles from where I sit.

The hope is that this aircraft (or any P-47) can be acquired for display along with the LST325, which will be calling Evansville home starting later this fall. The LST325 will be seen in the upcoming movie FLAGS OF OUR FATHERS, the new Clint Eastwood flick based on the James Bradley book about the flag raising at Iwo Jima. Bradley is also the author of Flyboys.

NN_Pierre
06-18-2005, 12:34 AM
WIP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/PierreAlfaro/ScreenDM.jpg

Pirschjaeger
06-18-2005, 03:24 AM
In this case the plane is being returned to the US since the salvager is American. Makes sense.

But, if this plane were found by local diver by accident let say, who would have the rights? I`m just curious if there are some sort of agreements made after the war about finding such things.

Anyone know?

Fritz